Let the People Meet

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bbabu #9

``What is the point of getting visas if some nutcase is going to kill you``

Are you anxious that some Pakistani visitor to Jaipur or Agra will kill the Hindu curator of Rani Gayatri`s palace or Taj Mahal? Or are you worried that an Indian visitor in Lahore will be attacked by some street hawker in Anarkali bazaar?

It is exactly these kinds of phobias and preconceived notions that people-to-people contact is meant to shatter. I find such phobias more prevalent among Indians than Pakistanis, largely because of the negative stereotypes that Indian media (film, TV, especially) propagate about Pakistan.

Re:Romair#3

I agree with you that Indians are not as aware of Pakistan as Pakistanis are about India. Maybe it is because Pakistanis are exposed to Bollywood, while we Indians barely get to see anything Pakistani. Growing up in India, I had no exposure to Pakistan except for what I read in the papers or saw on the occasional TV serial. I too had the image of Pakistanis being bloodthirsty, fanatic muslim invaders waiting to conquer India. My image changed completely once I came to New York and made friends with Pakistanis.

In fact my best friend used to be a Pakistani who has now returned back to Lahore. I still remember that when I mentioned fundamentalism, he told me about this incident - He was a student in an Engineering College and stayed in a dorm. The bearded fundos used to visit his dorm to convert muslims into fundo muslims!! Getting tired of it, he and his friends started greeting the fundos in their underwear!! He and his friends used to have a blast seeing the fundos run away muttering ``Tauba, Tauba``!! So much for my views that all Pakistanis were funamentalists!!

I think meeting people face to face is very important to learn about the other side. Interacting on the internet or any other medium just does not cut it. Once you meet face to face and see that the other side is basically just like you, it totally transforms your worldview. Hence it is important to have more and more people to people contact.

bbabu #9

``What is the odds of an Indian journalist travelling freely in Baluchistan or NWFP?``

Are you talking about journalist visa or visitor visa?
Journalist visas are for special events. Visitor visas are issued for longer duration and the applicants usually need to specify an address where they will stay. Journalists don`t need to provide any such address because the nature of their trip is different from that of a regular visitor.

Pakistan has always issued journalist visas to Indians to cover events such as Lahore Declaration, SAARC conference etcetera. Since Karachi, Lahore and Islamabad are the larger cities with better infrastructure, they are naturally chosen as venues for such special events (instead of Baluchistan and NWFP). However, when India played Pakistan in a one-day game at Peshawar last year... Indian journalists did get visas to cover the event in Peshawar (which BTW is in NWFP).

The biggest beneficiaries of visas are visitors, not journalists. These people can visit families, watch sports events, participate in local festivals, and go shopping wherever they want. Many people want to rediscover the roots of their ancestors, who migrated in 1947. When we talk about people-to-people contact, we should keep these millions of divided families in mind.

Basically the Indian gov`t also has an attitude that the visa problem is a Muslim one, hence no real incentive to solve it. The Hindus and Sikhs who wanna go to Pak tend to be Punjabis only. A miniscule number. Largest number of people who wanna travel are Muslims from Delhi, Bihar, UP etc. In fact, back in the 90s, there was a tendency to look with suspicion at Indian Muslims who wanted to visit Pakistan. Dunno if the situation has changed now.

re: travel across the border
I can understand Indian muslims (some of them at least) travelling to Pak to see their relatives or just to see how things are across the border but any hindu travelling to that country ought to have his head examined by a psychiatrist.
re: #6 by teshah
So, this guy is denied a visa by Indian HC in Pak and so wanted to join Lashkar-e-Tayebba in rage?
Thanks for the info, Teshah. I get daily insight into Paki mentalityby posts such as yours and it is frightening, to say the least.
Sridhar

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Ally

The Indian High Commission in London comes off as awesome compared to Indian consulate in NYC. They are a bunch of haraamis. They all get foreign posting because of some political godfather or the other. I heard of a friend who complained, so they threw the passport at him and had security kick him out. He was American citizen of Indian origin. Treatment is marginally better if you are white, well dressed and have connections.

I went to Pak embassy to get a visa. I went to the consulate line and said ``so and so`` had sent me. The guy said, accha aap tau sifarshi hain, aap front entrance sey ayen. `` :)

#9

`What is the point of getting visas if some nutcase is going to kill you. What is the odds of an Indian journalist travelling freely in Baluchistan or NWFP ? `

What are the odds of a Pakistani journalist travelling freely in B`stan or NWFP??? Or for that matter anyone else???

More than likely the Indian would get better treatment than us Pakistanis!!!!

---

Regarding Indian High Commission in London, I am sorry to say they are a bunch of pr**ks. One of them told me that to be a Pakistani is no `crime`. Another told me that they would process a visa for me on my British Passport, but it will take considerably longer than usual. I felt like saying F.U. and shove it up your back sides sideways.

My poor friend who is now in India, had to travel there on her Pak Passport instead of British, and to get the visa she had to go the Indian HC EVERYDAY, yes EVERYDAY for a WHOLE WEEK, and wait for hours, her shortest wait being 4 hours!!!! When she finally got it, they didn`t give her a visa for Kerala, or any southern city where she really wanted to go.

In a city like London where distances are big, and time short, this is how the Indian HC treats people, even becharey Indians sitting there waiting for hours.

What a far cry from 2 years ago when my friend who has a Pak Heritage 5 year visa on his British Passport got a 6 month multiple entry visa for India in one day, saying that was one of his best experiences in ever trying to get a visa for a country, with such helpful and friendly staff!

My friend who is now in India had to change her flight plans and cancel tickets and buy new ones, the stress of not being able to plan, and tell her employer (The BBC), that she wasn`t sure if she was gonna take leave!!!

Yes am sure India came off looking `shining` or `Incredible`. Shiningly sh*t and Incredibly ignorant.

That kind of behaviour can be expected in Delhi/Islamabad, but London and Washington!!! Come on people, do you really have to tell the world you`re such jahil, ignorant, gwah log.

Yes, such strides in the effin Peace process, What a behzti to all involved, and how bad India came off.

(In Pakistan, the demand for Indian visas is as much as 1500 – per day - from around the country, according to Kamal Parvez, Press Attache at the Indian High Commission in Islamabad.)

-Amazed to read this statistics...


Indian`s practised a very ruthless attitude to Pakistani visiting India not less than a decade ago. And people very silently and patiently absorbed the uncultured behavior in their own country. It was like going to Israel (Khuda na Khwasta). And I feel Pakistan goverment is also responsible for this alongwith. The diplomatic news were always tense then. And we often used to read that the current High Commissioner of India/Pakistan has been expelled from the respective country because of found in illegal activities against the country. And this used to create series of retaliations from both sides. And nobody never cared for negotiations.

Now We can hope for better...

But one thing will always remain in back of mind is that the people who were directly connected with that part of land had suffered in the previous years since partition of this stiff/cruel behavior both sides.

Stuka/07, I guess I am going to be called anti-Pakistan for this also, but to my experience, the commerce on readymade goods (clothing) of the western variety (jeans, branded trousers/shirts) is hot trade on the railway route from India to Pakistan. So my suggestion would be to carry trousers and shirts and buy the shalwars/kameezs there.

HisExcellency #2

`` During 2004, Pakistan surpassed India in CBMs and practical measures to increase ``people-to-people`` contact (as opposed to just talking about it). ``

What is the point of getting visas if some nutcase is going to kill you. What is the odds of an Indian journalist travelling freely in Baluchistan or NWFP ?

The fact that Indians know little about PAki elites is a reminder of which culture looks up to the other as a reference culture.....................

`` He did not know whether he would be able to wear pants in Pakistan!! Om Puri must be one of the more, or most, well-travelled Indians in India.
``

Well, I am planning to do the same thing during my trip next month. I assumed it is safer not to stand out as an Indian. What is wrong with that?

Years ago, I once applied for a visa to visit India. I was lucky to be allowed to go inside the High Commission through a lottery draw after a long wait in the que. I went in and was made to stand before a window almost closed with a coloured glass, if I correctly remember. The clerk at the window asked me,``Have you ever visited India previously``? I said,``No, I was born in that part of India which later came to be called `Pakistan```. He gave a curt reply,``No, we don`t issue fresh visas``. I tried to argue with him but he behaved very rudely and called up the guard to shove me out. ``O`My grand-mother land` Bahout be aabroo ho kar tere kooche se ham nikle`` I said to myself and went out. I was so frustrated that I went straight to the office of Lashkare Tayyaba which was situated next door to my home and asked them if they could send me to India. They said,``No problem``. But my age and proclivities, coupled with the risks involved did not allow me to avail that opportunity.

So every body knows that these visa restrictions do not apply to those who are adventurous enough to take the risks involved, especially in crossing the so called porous borders like the India-Pak one. I learn that India has recently allowed citizens of Pakistan above 65 to visit India without a visa. It seems to be too good a news to be believed. Will somebody who availed of this opportunity kindly brief me about it?

hi beena:

….hope you’re keeping fine…just an aside on chowk…

…indians and pakistanis have been meeting on chowk without visas since 1998…if you have some time to spare visit veeresh’s board below this one...what good has it done?...(read my ilog)…most of them travel with full blinkers on…bloated egos and all;)…does not matter what the subject matter…the interactors with bloated and blind-sided egos talk about their organs…

…meanwhile…to travel the equivalent distance from your ( and my) city to mumbai as the crow flies…from TO to DC… all i need to do is fill up the old wagon and take the QEW to 90W and 79/80S to 70S and am there in 9 hours…

…some day, kiddo!

lve

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