The world of the Wise Lord

Re: # 163

Wonderful dear mittar! No match for your depth of knowledge and objectivity.
A case of mass conversion to Islam is that of Pathans. They sometimes openly threatened to leave Islam en masse as they had accepted it
if this meant deliverance from Punjabi dominance. It apperas the mass conversions are purely politicaliy motivated. But I wonder at Hinduism. They resisted conversion to Islam despite a thousand years of subjugation by Muslim rule. How do you explain this?

Rkhan #156

Thanks.

nhk

Re: # 32 Layman

`` hence you can contact me at laymanlayman@yahoo.com if you want a copy of the spreadsheet. ``


Don`t offer thing you cannot provide......!!!!

# Urstruly with reference to your post # 40

``As far as I know, the Holy prophet (pbuh) has spoken highly of Zorthustra``

and

`` Zortostarians were made exempt, since they were considered the people of Scripture; according to Qura`nic injuction in Repentence 9:29 and Hadith the `People of the Book` are considered exempt from Jizya. ``

I have tried to search google...and the link you Gave....But could not find.... any exact reference to any hadith.... regarding this...

Yes... the same is mentioned...there.....like you said..
But ....I am an ignorant person... please could you give any exact link....from where I could verifiy this.... or the Hadidh... regarding this....

Mass Conversions and Hindu rigidity. I read somewhere that Hindus were (are?) extremely rigid in dealing with converts. Many Hindus converted temporarily (like in 47), to save property and life. Hoping for a day to convert back. Hindus wouldn`t even share food with other Hindus who had gone to muslim nations to fight under the British rule.

Kashmiri muslims who wanted to reconvert under sikh and then Dogra rule were not welcomed back by the intolerant Brahmins. This rigid stance has hurt Hinduism too.

Humsab:

``Indians do accept the fact that mass conversions may have occurred but not voluntarly on large scale.``

I guess this would depend upon what you may call voluntary. When I used the expression ``if you cant beat `em join `em`` it was implied that there were powerful incentives in switching sides. The plight of the defeated people has never been a pretty one in world history, the plight of the victim of islamist conquerors was worse because they were armed with quranic verses and sharia which seemingly gave them the license to kill and rape defeated non-believers. As we know, hindu kings had been fighting each other for as long as known history but they started using desperate measures like `johar` -mass killings of their wives- only against muslim invaders.

The point I was making was that the decision to convert was probably taken on a collective basis, in a panchayat or a biradari. The whole biradari converting at the same time had another advantage, it made any potential excommunication by the hindu society meaningless.

stuka:
Jaziya was imposed by sultans who preceded mughals. History records that Akbar abolished jaziya, which means that it was prevalent until then.

The discussion on this forum is stimulating and well versed. I missed it. My comments to earlier posts.

NHK is right in saying rice were for sick people or special days (mithay chaul). We never ate rice. I get uncomfortable if I eat them. Meat was a luxury only 3 decades back. Usually the grooms` party demanded there should be meat at the wedding. And, people fought over it. Whenver I ate at Pakis` homes, even the ``vegeterian`` dishes had meat. Maybe it is a US Paki thing.

Dullah, even thought Bhatti could be an engineer, doctor or a mechanic, mostly a Bhatti would prefer a Bhatti relative, a Jat would prefer a Jat and that too from a particular subcaste.

People change with times, and religion is not the most important influence. Jains and Brahmins these days eat beef, and muslims drink, sikhs smoke. It is not uncommon.

It is about time these superficial `taboos` are wiped out.

Stuka #153: ``That is coz Punjabis are lukhas who will take Aaa Daab as an invitation to dabao when said by a woman. ;)``

Yes. This is correct. Although, I believe it was Ghalib who said:

``Roz jhuk kay kehti hai, ``Chacha Aadaab``....
Jiss din dabaa diyay, pachtayee gee``

At the same time, the latest Indian hit movie, Veer-Zara, shows a Lahore of 1980s where everyone wears long sherwanis and says Aadaab. Looks more like the Lucknow (?) of 1880s. How many people in Lahore have you seen like that? That too, in their 20s and 30s.

It is beyond me, why and how someone in India`s movie industry could know so little about Lahore. Considering the fact that a huge chunk of India`s movie industry traces their family roots back to Pakistan. Sunil Dutt was born in Jehlum. Dev Anand went to GC Lahore etc.

What is worse is that Yash Chopra, the director of Veer-Zara was born and brought up in Lahore, himself!!

But what is even more odd is that so many Indians seem to now think that Lahore is actually like that. That is not to suggest that it was shown in a demeaning manner. It wasn`t. But it certainly wasn`t shown in any manner close to what it actually is..........

Why?

Regarding Pakis` denial of Hindu roots. I went to College with a Pakistani (was my room mate too). His last name was clearly Hindu (simmilar to Salim`s). He absolutely refused to admit - though he knew in the back of his mind of his Hindu ancestory. He called himself a ``Mughal``. And was happy to declare that ``his ancestors`` beat up Indians. Of course he looked like an ``Indian``. When the first gulf war began, all of sudden, he lost his Mughal/Paki pride and told everyone that he was a Mexican. He did not have any answers when I questioned his logic and never again discussed these controversial topics with me.

HP, Stuka:

I used to make the mistake of saying ``Adaab Arz`` to my Pakistani friends until I discovered ``reality``. These days, even Indian Muslims have stopped saying ``Adaab``.
Pity! because it`s such a beautiful greeting!

Back to parsees, what`s the parsee greeting?

Re: # 157
Tahmed32. Thanks for the research. I recently found out that the band ``Queen`` are making a comeback with a new lead singer Paul Rogers. I know for sure that they are going to perform in Rotterdam (The Netherlands) in April.

rkhan sahib: here is google on freddy mercury

Born 5th. September, 1946, Zanzibar, Africa; died 24th. November, 1991, in Kensington, London.
British pop and rock singer and song writer.

His orginal name was Farok Bulsara. (Not Farookh or Farookah as is given in some biographies.) His mother was Jer Bulsara.

His family were Zoroastrian Parsees who were essentially Indian, although they were of Persian extraction if their ethnic origin were taken back to the nineth century. The name Bulsara was from the town of Bulsar in north Bombay.

His father was a government accountant.

He was born in the British colony of Zanzibar in Africa, but his family moved to Bombay where he attended school. At school he adopted the name Freddie. The family settled in England in 1959.

He joined the band Sour Milk Sea and then moved

First of all, Nazar Saheb congratulations on writing an excellent article about Zoroastrianism. It was refreshing change from you after a lot of PIA and Migs. Though I enjoy those as well.

A lot has already been discussed about religions below. But it seems that people have lost track of the original subject in discussion. Maybe my post will try and bring people back to the original point of discussion.

Was Freddy Mercury a Zoroastrian? I remember watching a documentary on Zoroastrianism on Television where a prosperous Zoroastrian businessman in India was narrating all notable achievements of Zoroastrians. I distinctly remember he mentioned that Freddy Mercury was a Parsi. I have also heard (not in that program though) that his original name was Fareed Para. Maybe its correct or just another theory like Shakespeare being an Arab with the name Shekh Zubair.

Would anyone through light on this?

Raheel

First of all, Nazar Saheb congratulations on writing an excellent article about Zoroastrianism. It was refreshing change from you after a lot of PIA and Migs. Though I enjoy those as well.

A lot has already been discussed about religions below. But it seems that people have lost track of the original subject in discussion. Maybe my post will try and bring people back to the original point of discussion.

Was Freddy Mercury a Zoroastrian? I remember watching a documentary on Zoroastrianism on Television where a prosperous Zoroastrian businessman in India was narrating all notable achievements of Zoroastrians. I distinctly remember he mentioned that Freddy Mercury was a Parsi. I have also heard (not in that program though) that his original name was Fareed Para. Maybe its correct or just another theory like Shakespeare being an Arab with the name Shekh Zubair.

Would anyone through light on this?

Raheel

``The same principle was applied to Hindus throughout one thousand years of Muslim rule, until Aurangzeb Alamgir imposed Jizyah tax upon Hindus when they revolted in certain areas as per edict in Repentance ``

I just read this. Is it true that no Muslim leader imposed Jaziya on Hindus till Aurangzeb? Can this be verified?