The world of the Wise Lord

Urstruly,

The treatment of Zoroastrian/Persians by subsequent Arab regimes varied greatly, but needless to say all was not rosey, theory aside.

Is there mention of Zorothustra in Hadith? I was not aware...could you cite the reference...thx.

As far as I know, the Holy prophet (pbuh) has spoken highly of Zorthustra. Later when the Muslim Empire expanded and Jaziyah tax was imposed on non-Muslim subjects, Zortostarians were made exempt, since they were considered the people of Scripture; according to Qura`nic injuction in Repentence 9:29 and Hadith the `People of the Book` are considered exempt from Jizya. The same principle was applied to Hindus throughout one thousand years of Muslim rule, until Aurangzeb Alamgir imposed Jizyah tax upon Hindus when they revolted in certain areas as per edict in Repentance 9:29.

echoboom:

would you please care to remind us once again where you live? i mean this routine of gora goo-chaters and anglo-parsi punks that you get off on is so stupidly ridiculous. . . you`re so full of hate for people you don`t have any clue about. could you please tell us how you live in vilayet, which you do, contributing to a vilayeti system. . . i mean do you dress desi style or vilayeti style, or do you use your beard for chaDDis, and are sponging off of someone. . . where exactly do you get off with the venomous bakwaas here?!?

Re: # 32

Thanks! Will get in touch!

tch tch...

abdul-hate has begun to froth ...

...again...

..will someone call 911 to send the men with a strait jacket?

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the parsis do refer to zoroaster as zarathushtra from what i understand. zoroaster as alephnull says is the hellenized (greek) form of the name.

tahmed32 #5

{{… prophet zoraster (whom he called Zarathustra) return to earth with the message that concepts of good and evil …}}

Zarathustra is far more faithful to the Avestan original; Zoroaster is a Hellenized form of the name. Of all people, Nietzsche the philologist would have known this.

rahulmal #4

{{No discussion of Zoarastrianism can be complete without ancient Persian (I forget whether it was Sassanian or Avestan). The language resembles ancient Sanskrit (Vedic) very closely. The H in Persian is S in Sanskrit. …}}

Sarasvati => harahvati, sapta sindhu => hapta hindu … but also vice versa – thus hotr in Sanskrit (sacrificing priest) becomes zaotar in Avestan.

nazar,

``The Indians with their non-aggressive ideology could not venture beyond India.``

Why would they? India was so resource rich, united nomadic tribes are almost always the ones who came by India in search of it`s legendary riches. When you`re sitting on a pile of gold, you`re not really compelled to go anywhere. Which is not to say that `Indians` fought amongst themselves (and yes, they were quite aggressive). Ideology is not a factor.

rahulmal:
There are some wierd commonalities between Sanskrit and the Zoroastrian language(?) as found in the Zend Avesta. There are common gods with the Vedas - esp Mithra, Indra, Varuna etc.
There is a theory that both Hinduism and Z. had common origins and split around 2900BC. Indian Aryans worship `Devas` and have `Soma` ceremony. Persian Aryans worship `Ahura` (asura?) and have `Hoama` ceremony. I have an interesting excel spreadsheet that traces all world religions to their origin and an interesting comparison of religions as well. I am not sure if Chowk accepts attachments, hence you can contact me at laymanlayman@yahoo.com if you want a copy of the spreadsheet.

Sameer # 17

(Indian and Pakistani Muslims tend to believe (a minority compared to believing it a blessing) that tribal traditioins and ruthless nature of Afghans and central Asian Turks played larger role than Islam in maltreating their Indian subjects.)

The Arabs - Ummayeds & Abbasis were more cultured and enlightened than the Crazy Central Asians like Gengis Khan, Halagu and Timor. Afghans can be also lumped in this group. Firduasi`s Shahnama came out during the Arab period.

Even when the Ummayeds ruled Southern Punjab upto Multan, their rule does not stand out as an oppressive Rule. It were the Afghans, Turks and Babar who were animalistic - until they got toned down later.

nhk

Veeresh # 29

During this winter, lots of rains and heavy snowfalls.

Lots of water that we needed is being sent from the Heavens.

Good winters & a very colourful & noisy Basant.

nhk

Great article with excellent research, thanks. NHK Sahib, FL 450 and more on this. By the way, flying SW over Gujarat yesterday evening I saw very heavy clouds and bad weather to the North West and was informed that it extended all the way beyond Karachi, so did you get the much needed winter rainfall?

A few observations:-

# The linkages between the Vedic Civilisations and Persian Civilisations probably routed through the Gilgit / Hunza / (Tibet?) and thence through what are now Central Asian Republic routes rather than through Afghanistan/Khorasan. I have been lucky enough to travel in some of those parts, and though the political and geographical borders between India and Central Asian countries are very difficult to surmount, fact remains that many of the ritals and traditions seem to be fairly common, especially between South India and Central Asia.

# The commonality of Sanskrit root words along this route is also a fact of life.

# Quite by coincidence I channel surfed on to a Discovery (or was it NatGeog?) programme on the status of now often disused Towers of Silence in Tibet and Central Asian countries.

There are more than a few Parsees in India who have become Bahais. Moreover, all the ``strict`` rules for Parsees, like children born out of inter-marriage, attending functions in Parsee temples for outsiders and funeral rites go out the window when it comes to the elite within the elite.

Sameer

There is a controversy about the period of Zoroaster. There is also some contextual confusion about Dualism, Mithraism and Zoroasterianism.

I have confined my version to mostly what the Zoroastrians themselves say rather than what the outsiders think.

To me, the most interesting part was about its core concept of life which was subsequently followed almost identically by Judaism, Christianity & Islam. And not enough open credit given to Zoroastrianism.

Zoroastrianism also has a strong ethical content. It was tolerant and coalsed with Judaism very well. Only at one place, I have read that during the Sassani period, the minorities were oppressed.

Historically, pacifism is not helpful. Christianity survived because of `Crusades` & Islam expanded because of `Jihad`.

The Mongols were finished because they did not have any spiritualy-linked philosophy. And mostly got enticed by the idealogy of the people that they conquered.

The Indians with their non-aggressive ideology could not venture beyond India.

Similarly, The Chinese did not venture beyond their territory - However, Confuciousism did keep them togather.

So being too nice & good in this world does not seem to pay.

nhk

Re: # 24

Sammer,


``Although this is not the reason but Iran is included in the middle east rather than Asia or subcontinent in the name of related languages. ``

Where did you get that from? AFAIK, linguistic classification talks about Indo-European, Celtic (Irish, Scottish etc.), Semitic (Hebrew, Aramiac, Arabic etc. ) and Altaic (Turkish, Finnish etc. ) languages. Indo-European is sub-divided into European (Greek, Latin...), Indian (Sanskrit, Hindi, Bengali, Punjabi...) and Iranian groups. Iranian has West (Farsi, Kurdish ...) and East Iranian branches (Urdu, Pushto, Dari etc). What is a middle-eastern language?

There is some classification of European languages as well - Romance and Germanic. I believe, French, Romanian, Spanish and Italian fall in Romance categories while English, Danish, German etc are in Germanic family.

Try this link http://www.ethnologue.com/

In the 8th century, Zoroastrians fled to India in large numbers, where they were given refuge by Jadav Rana, a Hindu king of Sanjan (the modern-day province of Gujarat) on condition that they abstain from missionary activities and marry only in their community. Although these strictures are centuries old, Parsis of the 21st century still do not accept converts and are endogamous. The Parsis of India speak a dialect of Gujarati.

In Zoroastrism,as well as in the vedic religion and Hinduism,offerings of haoma-soma has been one of the main parts of the sacred ritual..The ritual of osma had such a significance already ni the common aryan period.In ancient Vedic and Avestan works,intoxication with soma and haoma is regarded as something divine,sacred,different from other forms of intoxication which are CENSURED.One of the Vedic works,Satapatha-Brahmana,mentions:``Soma is prosperity and light;syra is unhappiness and darkness(sura implies the usual `mundane` intoxicating drink).A similar statement is found in the avesta.All other intoxicating drinks lead to the demon of anger and fury,but this drink of haoma alone leads to sacred truth....pp.92 ``Passion and fury bubble,O drop of soma``.``We have drunk soma,we have become immortal,we have attained light,we have found gods``,reads one of the hyms of the rgveda.

....


The Soma has been identified with heather,a variety of mushrooms,ephedra,cannabis etc...Attempts to ascertain precisely what plant the ancestors of the Indo-Iranians called soma have hardly yielded any results....The modern Zoroastrians,the Parsis,usually use ephedra for preparing haoma.It has also been suggested in some works of the 19th Century,this suggestino is also accepted by many modern scholars,that the ephedra itself is the plant which the ancestors of the Indian Aryans called soma.``

``Both the Indian and Iranian tribes called themselves `Aryans` and their countries `Aryan`.The term `Arya` is applicable only to the Indo-Iranian tribes and peoples.....The Aryan tribes which came to India were,in linguistic and cultural respects,particularly close to the tribes of the Iranian group....``