Why We Need Islamization of Science

hamidm: in a military corps numbering in the tens of thousands, you are bound to find a pocketful of nuts, a truckload of colonel blimps. you will also find a basketful of crazies - except they are crazy like a fox that goes laughing to the bank. of course, romair is unique. i recommend him to be considered for field marshall. he will be the third field marshall then.

the first one was ayub khan. the second one .... i leave that for the learned people on chowk to name (no kidding - there was a second field marshall, an honorary one albeit).

A dear friend of mine wrote an article about ``Al Razi`` the greatest physician produced by the Muslim world ... and undoubtedly the father of modern medicine.... The reason why people like Al Razi were found in the Muslim world then, was because there was not attempt to ``Islamize`` Science at that time....

I hope Mr. Meer will pay heed t it.

http://www.naseeb.com/naseebvibes/prose-detail.php?aid=1845

One can see that the earlier period of Islam was far more tolerant of such dissent than Muslims of today

History has produced humans of exceptional abilities among all races of people. There are some who are inspired by the lot of the meek and make it their purpose in life to raise their stock. Others in seeking answers to complex and eternal questions garner the courage to come up with new ways of thinking. Regardless of what the situation, the reason for the endeavors of great people is inspired by the time they live in and the circumstances surrounding them. Here is a brief glimpse at one such exceptional individual.

Muhammad Zakariya Al-Razi (or Rhazes as he’s known in the West) was born in 865 in the Persian city of Rayy from where comes the name Razi. According to the great traveler and historian Al-Biruni, in his early life Al-Razi was a jeweler, money-changer, and very likely a lute-player. He first left music for alchemy and then at the age of 30 or 40 left alchemy because his experiments in it gave him some eye disease which obliged for him to search for medicine and doctors. In the process he became the greatest physician of his time.

His treatise on small pox and measles was the basis for the future treatment of these diseases. By perfecting methods of distillation and extraction, he was able to discover sulfuric acid, and also prepare alcohol by fermenting sweet products. Al-Razi’s most well-known book was al-Hawi, the nine-volume encyclopedia known in Europe as The Large Comprehensive orContinens Liber . Based on this book alone, many scholars considered Razi as the greatest medical doctor of the Middle Ages. Aside from the study of medicine, the book includes Al-Razi’s own interpretations and opinions which are almost entirely based


Based on this book alone, many scholars considered Razi as the greatest medical doctor of the Middle Ages.




on sound logic derived from observations- something not common in that age.

Because of his expertise, he was put in charge of the world famous Muqtadari Hospital in Baghdad and was able to gather many of his observations from his stay. In keeping with Al-Razi’s overall philosophy of giving value and significance to the abilities of the average person, he wrote a medical manual dedicated (the first of its kind) to the poor which they could carry around. It contained remedies, cures and other advice for treatment of common ailments when a doctor was not present.

Razi’s achievements in the field of medicine are many – from discovering allergic asthma to being the first to realize that the fever a was natural mechanism of the body to fight disease to rejecting many of Galen’s claims on the premise that sound medical practice demands independent thinking (and thus not on any abstract or cosmological notions). However, his other contributions are often ignored.

Like many physicians of the time, Razi was also a renowned philosopher. Yet, his views have been subject to being ignored at best and censored or suppressed at worst.

Consequently, much of Razi’s work on philosophy has been lost. Most of what is known is based on the documented arguments with the Ismaili opponent Abu Hatim Al-Razi in the latter’s Alam al-Nubuwwa.

For Al-Razi, reason is supreme. This is best expressed in his al-Tibb al-Ruhani.

God, glorious is His name, has given us reason in order to obtain through it from the present and future the utmost benefits that we can obtain; it is God’s best gift to us… By reason we perceive all that is useful to us and all that makes our


life good – by it we know obscure and remote things, those which are hidden from us…by it, too, we succeed to the knowledge of God, which is the highest knowledge we can obtain…If reason is so highly placed and is of such an important rank, we should not degrade it; we should not make it the judged while it is the judge, or controlled while it is the controller, or commanded while it is the commander; on the contrary, we should refer to it in everything and judge all matters by it; we should do according as it commands us to do.

With reason being sufficient, Razi goes on to reject both revelation and prophecy.

He rejects the miraculousness (i’jaz) of the divinely revealed books and candidly states that it is possible to write a better book in a better style. Books of science – on astronomy, medicine, geometry – are more useful than the scriptures as the former came about from men’s own intelligence rather than through prophets.

According to Razi, it would be highly unreasonable for God to send prophets as they do far more harm than good. Different nations and people believe in different prophets. This has resulted in divisions and tremendous bloodshed. Thus this was one of the reasons all those who claimed to be Prophets were out right rejected. Another was that since Al-Razi believed that all humans (at least potentially if not always) were equal in their ability to grasp reason, there was absolutely no logic to having someone claim they were ‘chosen’ or divinely inspired in any way.

To the claim of people claiming to be prophets or claiming to perform miracles the title of his book Mahariq al-anbiyaa makes his


Though Maimonides and Averros expressed similar views about religious habits being the root of prejudices and other ills connected to religion, Razi was savagely blunt about such attitudes and did not restrain himself to objective analysis.




position very clear. He rejects all such claims as merely fraudulent tricks.

Razi was unsparing in his criticism of those he saw were ridiculing reason. His deprecation of religious dignitaries who indulged in the process of conveying the hadith is shown in his tirade:

They adopted this approach as a result of their being long accustomed to their religious denomination, as days passed and it became a habit. Because they were deluded by the beards of the goats [renowned religious scholars], who sit in ranks in their councils, straining their throats in recounting lies, senseless myths and “so-and-so told us in the name of so-and-so…

Though Maimonides and Averros expressed similar views about religious habits being the root of prejudices and other ills connected to religion, Razi was savagely blunt about such attitudes and did not restrain himself to objective analysis. Consistent with his practice as a physician of using logic rather than superstitions of any kind to fight diseases, Razi unrepentantly used the same method to scrutinize and reject all religions and all religious teachings. Anything that was good, could be arrived at by sound reason and thus there was no need for religion.

The vast majority of Razi’s fellow Muslims naturally disagreed with his philosophy. However, with the intensity of charges hurled against the most sacred – nay the very basis of religion, one can see that the earlier period of Islam was far more tolerant of such dissent than Muslims of today. Al-Razi had many detractors, but unlike other freethinkers of the age like Al-Rawandi, Al-Razi could not be ignored or persecuted-in-like because of his unsurpassed contributions to humanity – contributions that lead the Islamic Encyclopedia to declare Al-Razi as the greatest physician for nearly 700 years.

Mantolives, how goes the world of the young storm trooper!

Listen I hope you sent this by email to Kamran Meer sahib. I somehow think that after seeing the first 20 interacts he has stopped reading this board. What is really needed is that people at the grassroots understand the importance of a scientific mood of thinking. For that you need to educate them. No point educating overhill the people, for they are the least willing to learn and neither are they able to unlearn the stuff they have imbibed over the years .

On the issue of the article... there is no disputing that it was a rather fanciful article which deserved its due given to it by hamidm2`s excellent post #26...

What I don`t understand is why we are ganging up on good ol` Romair... sure he has a problem with definitions and stuff, and concocts new words like ``Secular fanatic`` and ``religionist``... but I highly doubt he sympathizes with the author`s views...

I don`t see him as the enemy of science, progress, etc... though he apologizes sometimes for some things he shouldn`t.

just an observation:

who rankles whom?

hamidm rankles romair
romair rankles zahra

zahra:

...just ignore him...mr. romair (kindly) leaves me alone now after i publicly declared my eternal gratitude for one who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing:)

tahmed # 81

my history is rather bad but i think i do know the answer to this quiz:

Field Marshal Rani;)

temporal #86 Close, but no cigar. ;-) Try again

(hint. this is an honest to goodness honorary field marshall who got it from general akhtar during zia times).

hamidm mian #80: This is better (a bit better better, at least). I told you you could do better...........

``......... in any case, stop relying on statistics if you hope to become a successful entrepreneur``

I have decided that I am about as successful as I want to be, at the moment. So I am taking a breather. At the same time, have you ever tried entreprenuership? If not, then are you pulling this info out of thin air. Entrepreneurs spend half their day looking at statistics. If that wasn`t the case, then Gartner, Forrester etc. wouldn`t be such giants........Infact, much of what I do with clients is based on statistics about where the software industry is going.............

``how about these statistics: the gdp of the entire arab world is less than spain`s, there are more than 160 jewish nobel prize winners compared to 5 arabs and israel publishes more books than all the 250 million bedouins put together ............``

This means exactly what it indicates it means. And what I have been saying it means. That the Western civilization is far more successful than all other civilizations, at the moment (Israel is included in the Western civilization by Huntington). That is my whole point. One needs to look at facts on the ground to see how members of each civilization are doing............

One should not listen to the nutjobs who say that the Muslim civilization is ahead of the Western civilization, even though Muslims are lining up to migrate to Spain. And one should not listen to the nutjobs (no offence) who keep saying that Muslims are the worst of in the world, when the last 15 countries on the Human Development Scale are all African............

So I am not arguing that the members of civilization are better off than those of Western civilization. Quite the contrary. I am just arguing that they are not in the worst position in the world on HDI scales. They are better off than members of African, Bhuddhist and Hindu civilizations...........Which part of this is hard to undersand........It is a simple fact, whcih one should accept without gettnig all emotional about it......For some reason, you want the Muslim civilization to be portrayed as the worst, and for each one of their members to accept it also........and are getting unnecessarily emotional when facts don`t point that way......which they don`t..........

``forget the statistics -``

Why should I forget the statistics. Its like saying that forget the score of the game, to decide who won and who lost..........

``all you have to do is look around .......what do you see?...... all i see is obscurantists like kamran spouting nonsense and their peanut gallery of mullahs and faujis rushing them ....... no? .........``

All I can say is that you seem to be hanging out with the wrong crowd. And I say this seriously.........You keep coming up with environments, which many of us aren`t a part of........I certainly don`t see only the above..........This is exactly why statistics are necessary.......to make sure one person doesn`t skew the result..........

P.S. There was a time in the good old days, when I used to enjoy discussing a point with you. This was primarily because I knew where you were coming from. As long as one knows where the other person is coming from, one can respect him/her, and still disagree with him/her.

Now I have no idea where you are coming from. And I get the feeling neither do you. You keep ranting and raving about religion, as a whole. Fine. That is your view.

But then, you go and support the one group that is hell-bent on putting religion into the USA, moreso than any govt. in our lifetime. And then you are back to ranting and raving about religion. Between the two of us, you support Christian Evangelists, and I don`t. Yet you try to paint me as someone who does? What gives.........Choor ki darhi meain tinka?

Aren`t you doing the same thing as Urstruly. Who goes on and on about the evils of the USA, but makes sure he lives there. While you go on an on about the evils of religion, but make sure you vote for it. What`s next SameerJB rejoining Jamaat-i-Islami?

ZahraJ #65: Please argue the point and not the person. You have a habit of name-calling that you keep relying on, whenever you are challenged on something............Others can call you names also. It is very easy to do...........

At the very least, you have lost the right to criticize others on this site, on this issue. Hopefully we will not see that.......

I have no need to misquote you. Your remarks are self-explanatory. You have, on occasion, expressed bigoted views regarding the following. I can quote them for you, if you want. Your ilogs have quite a few such comments:

- Muslims
- Pakistanis
- Men

The remark you have quoted itself points in that direction. Why should any nation enter any other nation to save them from anything? It leads to deaths, violence and destruction. Yet you keep harping on it, again and again.........Why? This is bigotry..............

temporal/tahmad #various: As I said earlier, to Hamidm, ``I have conquered many a folk (apparently on this site) and left them bitter in my wake................... :-) ``

Argue the point, not the person. One of the first techniques of debating a point is to discredit the person`s knowledge of the subject. For example someone thinks American attacks are the best thing for other countries, you point out the weakness and double-standard in their argument, through facts.....

The second way to discredit a person is to get them agitated to the point, where they cannot argue the point under discussion, and start arguing the person, through name-calling. Once a person reaches that level, they lose all legtimacy...........

In this case, the simple point under discussion is whether, Muslims are the worse off in the world, at the moment. People have made emotional statements about it. There will be some individuals who will say Muslims are better off than everyone. And others who want to portray them as the worse off. But the fact is they are somewhere in between, somewhat towards the lower end............But definitely not the worse off....

Statistics, rankings etc. all prove this...........It is right in front of everyone..........So when peopel are hell-bent on not accepting this, and want their own illogical points of views to be accepted, what do they do? They rely on name-calling...........

Kindly do not lower yourselves to that level.............

Temporal...

She was General Rani... not field marshall as far as I know...

Romair: Of course...as I said, arguing with you is not for the faint-hearted. Facts shiver in fear when you approach, and Logic goes bawling home to its mama every time you beat the stuffing out of it. Ordinary mortals like mr t and self throw down our weapons and head for the hills when you approach. ha! ha!

(just kidding, so dont get mad at me. but Hamidm does have a point...why the hell does everything have to start with an ``I Romair know this and you know nothing``. Why dont you try answering my question in #81 instead. THAT would impress me.)

Ok, I stand corrected. The Ummah is not the most backward in the world. According to statistics, some African countries are even more backward than the Ummah.

yasser:

what is a star or two...between a general and a field marshal...who took neither the long pma course nor the short one;)

btw any inkling who is currently mushy`s general rani?

you may take a crack at this too tahmed

Re: Tahmed`s Second Field Marshall

Are you thinking of when Zia appointed Bhutto as the Colonel Commandant of the Armoured Corp? If so, I think you might be mistaken. Bhutto got an Army uniform and a Full Colonel`s rank badges, not those of a Field Marshal`s.

I am sure my comments on this board are needed to bring some sanity back to the discussion :-)

First, I just don’t think that personal attacks on Romair are justified in any way.

Secondly, Many in Islamic world are fascinated by the success of “Christian Science” and would like to “musharaf ba Islam” it. This article is yet another attempt to do that. About 75% of the Jamaat Islami literature is an Islamized copy of Christian Science publications.

So what is Islamized Science? It boils down to this:
“The flood of useless and distracting gadgets needs to be controlled. Only a sophisticated traditional science like that of Islam can stem this tide of decay.”

What are those “useless and distracting gadgets?” They are obviously the means of information and transfer of knowledge. In other words, the sole purpose of the Islamic Science in the end would be to control Radio, TV, Internet, VCRs, CD Players, camera or may other gadgets that help the so-called Muslims to communicate with the rest of the world and obtain knowledge. We all know that knowledge is something our “Islamic scientists” hate and they would deny that to poor ignorant Muslims like us in a jiffy.


Hamidm claims that Spain’s gdp is more than the combined gdp of Arab world. So what does that prove? Spain’s gdp is more than India and many other countries combined too.
People presenting this kind of bogus stats forget that Spain was one of the largest colonial powers of the world just a century ago. When Arabs were a colonial power, they actually ruled Spain.

If they had started Nobel prize in the 8th,9th,and the 10th century, Nobel prize recognition of Arabs would have been better than the Jews and Spaniards put together.

If hamidm really wants to compare Arabs, he should pull out numbers from India and Pakistan for comparison. I bet all Arabs, India and Pakistan put together won’t have more than ten Nobel prize winners between them. The comparison between India, Pakistan, and the Arabs would be genuine as all these people came out of colonialist hold about the same time. Mind you, not all Arabs have access to oil revenue so they are struggling to uplift their countries and actually some have done better than India and Pakistan.

Sameer with tilda claims that “
”Many Russian Jews are better off simply because they are Jewish.”

How does a religion make anybody rich or poor in terms of money?

What kind of twisted logic is that? Majority of Russian Jews are in fact POOR.

Smaller communities all over the world stick together and help each other in business and other pursuits like Khoja and Bohri in Pakistan do. But not all of them are better off. They may be better off on average relative to the rest of the population.

I agree with ayaan2002. People opposing religion are as dogmatic as the religious nuts like Kamran meer are.