Why We Need Islamization of Science

yeeehhhh bring on the djinns !!!

Religion cannot be compared to philosophy. It can only compare itself with other philosophies/beliefs. Religion was not meant to learn about new things. It was only a belief. It is meant for peace of the inner self, etc. Ridiculous to compare science and religion. Apples and oranges.
SCIENCE WELCOMES DEBATES. RELIGION HATES DEBATES. Science is to observe. Religion is mostly blind belief and rituals.
Comments?

There is a giant body of work out there written in the same vein as this article that tries to come to terms with entirely bullshit topics. These posts follow a very familiar pattern. It goes something like this.
1)Start by defining a word from the dictionary and expnading by delving into latin/arabic/Esperanto roots etc.
2)Recap mainstream thinking in a paragraph or two conveniently leaving out the nuances of the subject. This is done to give the impression that the writer has complete command of the topic at hand.
3)Use a combination of 1 and 2 to argue that mainstream thinking is a load of crap and not worthy of any attention.
4)Present alternative thesis in response to 3 notwithstanding the fact that their thesis is even more bogus than mainstream thinking. Heavy artillery in the form of verbiage and circular logic is employed in this stage to pummel the reader into a stage of intellectual submission.
5)The alternative thesis has to be vague and harmless in order not to invite ridicule or dissention.
6)End result. A lot of hot air signifying nothing.

I invite readers to apply this cheat sheet to posts by urstruly,echoboom,ROmair etc. Results will be truly illuminating.

later
-sac

If this article makes any sense,will someone please help me (and more people like me)in understanding in simple words? What is Islamic (or vedic or anything like that) science? This is same as in pre-partition days,there used to be ``hindu paani`` and ``muslim paani`` at public places.

``Islam became heir to the intellectual heritage of the traditional sciences of all the major civilizations before it (including the Greco-Alexandrian, Hellenic, Iranian, Sabean, Indian and even Chinese but to a lesser extent), although transformed within a new religious universe, that of Islam`` Meer, Kamran

Dear Sir,
Greco-Alexandrian infact refers to Hellenic! Saying it twice is redundant. You also forgot the Byzantine, Turkoman, Egyptian, Scythians, Mongols, Visigothic, Vandal, Jewish influence on Islam.

Is there a useful point behind your grandiloquent harangue.

``Islamic Science is wed to the Islamic revelation and to the Prophetic Traditions of Muhammad (Upon Him Be Peace) and essentially deals with reform of the human soul, which is considered the raison de aitre of human life on earth and the primary objective of Islamic Sciences`` Meer, Kamran

What does Science have to do with the reformation of something intangible and unproven like the Human Soul.

Your essay, though well written fails miserably at making any substantial points. Furthermore failing to prove the points that you do make.

``The man of our time cannot see the divine signs in the skies any more.The remembrance of astronomical theories blocks his intuition. In actual practice, he thinks neither of the abysses of the stellar world nor of the terrible forces latent in every particle of matter. To bring man back to the human, science needs to be once again “Islamized” in the Muslim world, and “traditionalized” according to the respective religious heritages in other civilizations. The flood of useless and distracting gadgets needs to be controlled. Only a sophisticated traditional science like that of Islam can stem this tide of decay. `` Meer, Kamran

What is this? What are you saying in your conclusion. Its wordy! Its Flowery!
Dear Meer Sahib, Science along with everything else is already Islamized in the Muslim World, from popular culture to education, from women`s bodies to their reproductive rights.
Who will ``CONTROL`` the flood of useless and distracting gadgets? Why is there a need to control them. A woman`s vibrator that you may view as a useless and distracting may very well be her prize possession. :)
What tide of decay? what kind of decay are we talking about. Social, cultural, moral, environmental, mechanical, intellectual, WHAT?
What the F are you talking about?
Allah Ki Panah

Re: # 4
LokRaj Ji,
I am with you.
By the way I like your Democratic name. Pun intended. :)

Next will come Islamic Calculus, followed by Islamic Uncertainty principle, next Islamic Wave equation, then Islamic Relativity Theory. Viola you will soon have Islamic Theory of Fundemental particles, a hindu theory of fundemental particles, and a christian theory of fundemental particles. All talking of the same particples but the bull-shit hanging around them will come from different bulls.

Wah! bhai! wah! What enlightenment? SAC and DrLokRaj couldnt have put more clearly. Congratulations to you both. Professor Gill Sahib where are you when you are most needed.

P.S. Chowkstaff why not have smilies on this page as well as you do on UP. a few >:) etc would have done all some good.

This article is a striking example of the intellectual vaccum and stagnation that has developed in the Islamic world. Early muslims were pioneers in science, technology and mathematics, because they took moral inspiration from their faith but remained focused on reality. Today`s muslims are focused only on a literal interpretation of their faith to such an extent that they have made a mockery of their religion. People laugh when they read such utter nonsense. Other faiths have their share of loonies but they are miniscule in number as compared to Islam.

Really is what comes from being an Oracle man.......

what a sham....did you really think that anyone with an ounce of sense will fall for this.........?

#3: sac! brilliant comment buddy! keep `em coming. (and after your comment, need i say more? NO!)
-bilal

oh, my god ! .........

verily, i shall return to this board to explain the divine signs in the skies that nobody can see any more because they have been corrupted by calculus and chemistry .............

.........but first i have to go sit in a cave for forty days .........

.......... inshallah, i will be back as soon as i have had a little chat with that winged idiot gabriel who has been missing from duty for the past fourteen hundred years while imbeciles like einstein and darwin have been running amok ..........

what a load of utter unadulterated horse manure? Hamidm2 puts the right perspective to this article. SAC has analysed it beautifully. The others have been sufficiently acerbic.
I thought I would never say this, but Chowk you have out done yourself this time round.

A superb article. This needs to be framed and sent to every one around to read!

sac:

…keep up the jihad!

hamidm:

…trust when in trance in the cave thou will wilt not!



…now, before we deliberate on how to islamize science...just a stray thought:

how to islamize (read ostracize, neutralize, circumsize, and humanize) the abdul-hates first ?

rgds

t

Kamran Meer Sahib:

I am sorely disappointed to read this article. Mr. Kamran, it`s no reflection on your personal attitude, I respect your aspiration.

When I wrote my article, I wanted to understand what Islamization of science was. Does Islamize mean to convert something from a non-Islamic state or condition to Islamic state? Or, does it have other connotation? I might have been mistaken in understanding Islamization of science for an activity or effort or method to make science, which is non-Islamic, Islamic. I have trouble with this concept because science does not have any religion, scientists do. If this is true, the best way of making sense germane to the Islamic world is to produce Abdul Salams, Ahmad Zewails, and others who are working in the scientific fields but have not achieved such worldwide prominence. Why are we hesitant in accepting this fact?

True, science is limited and it does not have final answers. Metaphysics (spiritual inspiration) gives you final answers which nobody can verify. Scientific knowledge is more reliable and certain. The modern science is extremely more advanced than the science in medieval times and the science at the end of the twenty-first century will be much more advanced than what it is now. This is how science progresses.

Mr. Kamran, for God`s sake, don`t take us back to the medieval times and medieval science. Stop looking backward. Look in the forward direction and spend your energies in making science popular and acceptable in the Muslim world. That is the only way of our salvation.

Lastly, you haven`t answered any of my questions that I had raised in my article. I reproduce them here in the following:

1. What is Islamization of science?
2. Who`ll do it? Will they be theologians, metaphysicians, or scientists? and
3. How will it be done?

I hope Newton`s laws of motion will remain unchanged even when they`re Islamized. With regards,

Mohammad Gill

never thought I would see the day when charlatans would appear on chowk FP. I have been on chowk since its insception and have seen all sorts of obscurantists but this takes the cake.

Anyway for those interested here is an interesting link (where the author talks about particle physics amongst other things like surah etc)

http://answering-islam.org.uk/Quran/Contra/i004d1.html

``Net, for humans to simplify the concepts of time and space travel simply because humans are not endowed with the same capabilities that other beings may be endowed with, is not correct. But glimpses into sub-nuclear matter and into the history of the universe do give a clue regarding the abstruseness of these issues and that they may well be outside the scope of human comprehension, or may need further evolution of the science of physics. ``


Chowk please atleast get such articles read, and edited by the likes of URSTRULY or echoboom - they are more rational and better read and can provide a more coherent view point (eventhough we might not agree with it).

Dear sir:

I am neither a theologian nor a scientist. However, this being the Chowk, I feel no hesitation in comfortably making the following two postulates:

1) There is a very simple explanation for why you are unable to come to the same conclusions as Dr. Gill. You see, you are following a very different path in your pursuit of knowledge than Dr. Gill. Dr. Gill is making earnest attempts to learn for himself (and interpret for us, the laymen) and is willing to allow the possibility that he could be wrong in his interpretations of what he observes and to make adjustments accordingly; therefore on the balance generally moving horizontally in the forward direction, while trying to bring a few of his fellow human beings with him. You sir, see all your answers coming to you from up above, and therefore, in making your arguments, you prefer the vertical path. Unfortunately, in making those arguments, and having not yet mastered the art of levitation, you rise vertically up to a certain height, then fall back where you started from (in layman’s terms, “back to square one”.) You have every right to keep trying. Who knows, maybe if you keep trying hard enough and keep jumping higher and higher, you may attain what Dr. Gill would call the “escape velocity” (approximately 8 miles/hour, (actually it is about 7 miles/hour but I am adding another 1.0 just to make sure)), you will NEVER fall back and keep rising FOR EVER, thus proving your point. I have a fleeting suspicion that some people at Chowk may even prefer that (not me, however, because that may deprive me of future opportunities to post long interacts!)

2) I must profusely thank you for making me go and read Dr. Gill’s article (which, I am ashamed to admit, I had neglected), and elevating my regard for his talents (already very high) by 1,000 percent. Please keep writing more and more so that his job can get a little EASIER!

BeeJay (on sabbatical)

Correction: # 17

Sorry, sir. Before others correct me, it is 8 miles/second (NOT miles/hour). (Told you I was a layman, didn`t I?)

Is there a point to this article? If there is, I am missing it completely

Think like the rest of us you have most definitely missed the fine point of the article john.

I am sure this man must have been inspired by the ``Scientific`` publications of Taliban ..................it was great fun reading this crap.......it reminded me of my school days........

And the most amazing part of it is that this guy is a Product Manager for Oracle E-Business Applications...............Good Luck Oracle!!

The interacts to this point have been very unfair to this fine article. Please try to read it on its own terms. You may not sympathize with Mr. Meer’s goals, but that does not mean that others do not feel those goals worth pursuing.

The author nowhere states that his aim is to contribute in any way to the modern scientific enterprise, i.e. to observing, elucidating and providing testable detailed unifying explanations for phenomena. He does not claim that his agenda has the slightest contribution to make to that effort today (though he may perhaps believe that the achievements of traditional Islamic science - one of the alleged progenitors of contemporary science – were made possible by a religious outlook similar to his own.) Nor does he offer to transmute desert sand into crude oil or tap an inexhaustible source of energy via djinn power. In short he does not promise what he cannot deliver. His concern is not for science but for religion and the psyche.

What Mr Meer has done is articulate the dislocation and loss that many people indoctrinated in revealed religion feel because science has knocked the bottom, top and sides out of their worldview. It may be worthwhile to catalogue some of the reasons why these people feel distraught and bereft. First there are those gentle souls who crave a personal relationship with a creator, need to believe that their drab insignificant lives have a larger purpose and fit into an overarching universal master plan. Then there are those who hope for life after death. Further, there are those who fret that without a divine lawgiver, human life loses its meaning, every kind of human behaviour becomes permissible; and related to these, are those who regret the loss of authority over other human beings that religious sermonising grants them. And finally there are those seekers after absolute knowledge and absolute certainty who are dissatisfied that the supposed source of absolute truths has been supplanted in public estimation by a usurping newcomer that promises less but delivers more.

For all these mentalities, Mr. Meer’s essay is like a cry from the heart. To be dealt with and perhaps cured of their malady, these people must be understood. We ignore them at our peril.

Mr. Meer, please ignore the jeers, catcalls, addled eggs and rotten tomatoes hurled your way by philistine Chowkies, and submit more of your excellent articles for publication by Chowk.

Dude what the F__K have you been smoking? I want some of it, must be the best thing after sliced bread if it gives such clarity of vision. Here we have a perfect example of wrapping up an infinitesimal piece of faeces in arcane language and trying to pass it off as critical thinking. Please oh please explain to me what are the horizontal and vertical outgrowths of science. How does the study of the soul become a science (even a traditional one). If ``exact science`` suffers from a scarcity of perspective (you state we can only observe something from our own point-of-view) then how does ``Islamic science`` liberate us and take us to a higher plane?

For the love of God (yes God), stop dragging Islam into spheres it has no hope of enriching. Science is science, it is exact. Islam (or any religion) has no place dictating how science should be practiced. What you speak of is metaphysics or at most philosophy (by the way, it`s raison d`être not raison de aitre).

It`s people like you who are handing others much unneeded ammunition to make a mockery of us when we are already a laughingstock the world over. Grab a lota and go to Raiwind, there you will find many, many people who will hang onto your every word like it was a string of pearls.

Irfan.

PS: The day you find me an integer other than 1 and 7 that divides 7 perfectly I will give up reading IEEE journals and start looking to the Quran for guidance in all matters technical, in fact I will give up my career in the ``exact sciences`` and strive to find my ``raison de aitre``. Find me a perspective dude.

Dude, Islamization of science should be termed as an oxymoron.

The only science behind all this is the utter chaotic chemical composition of your mind and all the other members of mullah-brigade!

Can`t you guys just leave islam out of our lives for 5 seconds?? I know you can`t leave it out of yours, you probably can`t even shit without some dua`s on your lips.

revelations - II,

[ the last time we visited the seventh heaven, god and gabriel were having a little tiff about trying to find a candidate for prophethood to set the world straight ......... hamidm had been rejected because of the dubious state of his liver and romair was pushed aside because god, the omniscient, feared competition from a know-it-all ........ frustrated, al-lah decided to stop the world from expanding and implode it in one big reverse-bang ......... but gabriel, on his way to set the stage for armageddon somewhere in iraq, got distracted by the folks protesting against globalization and oprah giving away free cars to women on welfare ........... so he forgot and god, being rather forgetful himself, got distracted by the three armed creatures on u786 who were destroying their female chicks before they hatched and generally acting like a bunch of heathens ........

...... so now, once again, god and his favourite winged companion are at it, sipping wine and muching on peyote and mushrooms and wringing their hands over the conditions on earth ]

gabby: you should watch what you eat - you are beginning to look like jabba the hut, astaghfirullah! ......... but i think we might have the right man for the job on earth .......

god: gabby, i am sick and tired of the human race .... for all i care they can go to hell ...... the only problem is that hell is already overcrowded with those three armed creatures and other riff raff from all the universes i have created since the start of time ........

gabby: when did time start ? was i born when it started ?

god: gabby, don`t be silly ....... even i don`t know when time started but i was there when it did ....... and no, you were not born because i created you out of light and milk and honey ...........

gabby: you know, it is not fair that i never had any parents to hold me and cherish me and love me like those humans that you created out of clay and water ..... it is just not fair........ i feel cheated ........sometimes i feel like crying

god: [affectionatley ruffling the feathers on his head] but gabby - i love you ..... you are my favourite angel and i love you very very much ........ haven`t i trusted you with bringing my message to zillions of prophets on billions of planets in millions of galaxies, and haven`t i always listened to you when you wanted to create a black hole here and a dwarf there ....... look at that imbecile iblees - what does he do all day except run around trying to make mischief on earth by tempting pious men with wine and loose women ..

gabby: whatever ........ but about this guy on earth - kamran meer

god: who in my name is kamran meer?....... never heard of him ...


gabby: so you don`t know everything, do you ?........ well anyway, kamran is a nobody - yet ........ he does not have hamidm`s people skills, nor romair`s prodigious intellect, but the man loves you .........

god: sure everyone love me !... everytime i turn around someone is telling me how much they love me and that they need money for their sister`s operation ....... jerry falwell loves me and he wants me to do something about those gays in alabama ...... by the way, gabby, did i ever say that homosexuality was a sin ?

gabby: [rolling his eyes] you sure did ..... you told moses and he told your son and some monk from bethlehem told mo of mecca ........you don`t remember ?

god: doesn`t really matter.... if i did, then there must have been a good reason ........ so what`s so special about kamran meer other than the fact that he loves me because his sister needs and operation ...........

gabby: boy, are we ornery today ! ......... well, kamran wants to islamize science because he understands that the world is in the shape that it is in because of people like newton and einstein and copernicus and darwin who have poisoned the minds of the people with facts and figures and calculus and chemistry ......... he thinks it is time to put an end to this nonsense, set the record straight, and show the human race the folly of its ways .......... he understands that man cannot see your divine signs in the skies any more because the remembrance of astronomical theories blocks his intuition.........

god: ......... but i don`t have any divine signs in the skies and i don`t remember saying anything about intuition ..... as a matter of fact, as you and i know, i don`t talk to the people directly ........ that`s your job to take my message to the prophets so that they can pass it on to abdul and joe .........

gabby: exactly!........ and that`s why we need kamran meer - the man is already half way there and would make a great prophet .......i will go talk to him but you will have to really help with this one .............. it is not like the last time around when the simple people of mecca and medina were willing to give up the ways of their forefathers without a major miracle ......... now days they have cnn and unless they see dr sanjay gupta certify on live tv that lazarus was dead before he was alive, we don`t have a chance .................

god : [sighing as he reaches for another peyote pakora] gabby, i know they have been ruined by centuries of science and learning ........ but what can i do ..... i promised not to interfere with free will ...........

gabby: al-lah !..... who is talking about free will ......... all i want you to do is abrogate newton`s laws .......

god: are you sure i can do that? wouldn`t everything fall apart and destroy the earth ?

gabby: in your son`s name!........ remember, you are god and can do anything ....... if you want you can abrogate newton`s laws and the world can be held together with something other than gravity or whatever .........

god: [with a puzzled look on his face] gabby, i am not too sure about this ..... do you mean to say that i will have to put in place another whole new set of laws to govern that one little silly planet ........ it doesn`t seem to be worth the trouble .........

gabby: so, you are happy with the way things are, with people running around believing in nonsense like evolution when both you and i, and that scoundrel iblees, know that we sent down adam and eve 5005 years ago ........

god: are you sure it wasn`t adam and steve ?

gabby: is that a homophobic joke ?.... you know it is not funny ........

god: [smiling and ruffling gabby`s feathers] gabby, you know i am just yanking your chain ...... so, you say this man, what`s his name, kamran meer, will make a good prophet ? ........ i trust your judgement even though you made a mess of things with guru nanak ......

gabby: there you go again !...... remember - it wasn`t me, it was mikail ...... i was on vacation.....

god:[popping a mushroom] just kidding !......... okay, where is this guy kamran located.... is there a cave close by where he can go and meet with you .......

gabby: another thing i don`t understand - why do we have to meet in a cave; why can`t we meet at a starbuck`s .......

god [sternly]: it is a great tradition and i have no intention of changing it just because you have grown fat and lazy ....

gabby [ with a flutter of his left wing] : whatever ..........anyway, he lives somewhere in california where there are many hills and i am sure there are a few caves left after all that rain that you have been sending down there to punish the sodomites ...........

god [ exasperated] : look, for the umpteenth time i am telling you that i have no intention of punishing people for their sexual behavior just because pat robertson and jerry falwell say they love me and want me to destroy san francisco ........... i have better things to do

gabby [rolling his eyes]: sure ....... but getting back to kamran........... can you abrogate newton`s first law and make the apple go up instead of falling to the ground when he gathers the people around him to preach your message ....... islamize the law; turn it on its head; show the people the folly of science and expose newton for the charlatan that he was..... make them come back to you ...........

god [ a little unsure]: but at the time newton came up with the laws that`s how i had designed them ......it doesn`t sound fair ......

gabby: you are getting soft, you know...... now, do you want the people to come back to you or are you willing to let scientists and chemists and matematicians run wild dragging your name through the mud ........... abrogate !

god: calm down, gabby, for my sake ..........i will do it .......tell kamran to go to a cave and meditate for forty days and wait for my message ......... we need the forty days to put together the message .... as you said it is not that simple any more; national geographic, the discovery channel, science and math and mtv have turned the people into sceptics and any prophet would have a hard time with that crowd unless he has a plan .........

gabby: this guy is a product manager for oracle - so he must be a smart guy .......

god: the only smart guy at oracle is larry ellison ............

gabby: maybe we should consider larry ellison for prophethood .........

god: he is too smart - you know we have had trouble with the really smart ones in the past with scope creep and all kinds of other nonsense ........... too unreliable

gabby: so it is kamran ? .... right?

god: kamran it is and as you said, i will abrogate newton`s laws for just one day in the bay area ...... is it a deal ?

gabby: consider it done !

hamidm: I gotta go. But look forward to reading Gabby and the Lord Act II (in #26) tomorrow. NOW this board is becoming interesting.

Re: # 23
Please Read what he has written!

Lord, Have Mercy.

What a load of crap!

Re: # 24
Cute :))

Hamidm
Loved it!
You are not so bad after all.
:)

Hamidm...God really likes Gabby , doesn`t he...

Kamran - I tried very hard to understand what you`ve written and there were times when I thought I was getting somewhere. But then I came upon your last para and am as confused as ever. Are you a Luddite who happens to be a Muslim? Or are you a Muslim advocating a holistic approach to life in general and science in particular? Or are you a scientist who is trying to align the spiritual with the scientific in your life and think that would be of benefit to mankind in general?

And then - What happens when Islam comes across a scientific precept it is not willing to accept? Religions do that, you know. Who wins?

I get the feeling this is a very personal essay that has been hijacked into a technical one and... well, in the event neither seems to be served.

hamidm #26 ha! ha! Now we have some real literature on chowk. You really should make this a series of articles. Loved the part about gabby wishing to reveal the Word to potential prophet Kamran Meer in a Starbucks rather than a cave. And God abrogating the law of gravity in order to replace Newton with Islamic Science.

Ha! ha! Maybe you could check with God if he could send us a few Jinns to Pakistan to meet our power plant needs (like an Islamic Scientist suggested we shoud do - rely on Jinn power to meet our future energy needs).

hamidm 26:

keep them coming:)...i will appeal to the elusive chowk staff to give you space under hamid`s hammerings or hamid`s cave diaries or hamid`s revelations so we can get the material under one roof...you know the stuff the goat allegedly ate;)

rgds

t

The article reminds me so much about Mao`s red book that the chinese used to look for inspiration in all aspects of life during the times of the Cultural revolution. When the Chinese table tennis team lost in a international match they were told that it had happened because they had not read the ``Red`` book properly.

Everyone knows that the observer and the observed are not independent, and quantum physics shows how our intention effects results. I fail to understand how the Koran is the basis for scientific enquiry. As a matter of fact the current version of Islam which is being projected has many things which come in the way of scientific enqiury.

It is because of people like the author of this article that Muslims are intellectually, politically, financially, culturally and technologically the most backward people in the world today.

hamidm #26

That was world class literature.......beats all others hands down..........and very original in the context of Kamran Meer and his theological pontifications...............

JamesMaxwell #36: ``It is because of people like the author of this article that Muslims are intellectually, politically, financially, culturally and technologically the most backward people in the world today.``

Actually, leaving the article aside, Muslims do not fall in the bracket you have placed them in, with respect to others. If we use Huntington`s civilization model, Muslims are quite a bit ahead of many civiliizations, on the Human Development Index. He breaks civilizations, as follows:

Western; Sinic, Japanese; Hindu; Islamic; Orthodox; Latin American, African, Bhuddhist.

If you take a look at HDI rankings from the UN and the migration patterns of individuals from one civilization to another, they would rank as follows:

1. Western
2. Japanese
gap.........
3. Orthodox
4. Sinic/Muslim
5. Latin American
gap...........
6. Hindu
7. Bhuddhist
8. African

One could switch around 4 and 5 and 6 in any order. But the others would be about where they are. The average member of the Muslim civilization is quite a bit better off in Human Development than the average member of the Hindu and Bhuddhist and African. civilizations. A lot of people from no. 6,7,8 migrate to Muslim countries. Hardly anyone from Muslim countries migrates to the countries comprising 6,7, or 8. There is a pretty big gap between these two groups............

This is why I always find it strange when certain individuals make such baseless comments, as the one you have made. Just because the US is conflict with some of the Muslim countries, and not with the Tamil Tigers or the African National Army, does not mean that everything on Fox News is accurate............

Re: # 38
Just a few clarifications. I was born in an educated muslim family in a very conservative muslim country. I have lived in both muslim and non-muslim countries. And my personal opinion (which no one is obliged to agree with) is that muslims are intellectually the most backward people in the world. Muslims are convinced that the Quran is the absolute truth. Full stop. No questioning allowed.
I have not read Huntington`s book so I cannot comment on his civilisation model.
And lastly, I do not approve of American foreign policy and the actions of the neo-con idiots who formulate it. I do not watch the hollywood nonsense and have never in my life watched Fox News. I have never visited America and have no desire to do so.
But this does not change my very poor opinion of the Ummah....

sac (# 3) has done remarkable service to chowkies by exposing the format all such articles and responses rely upon, i.e., circular logic with trying to cofuse, uneasiness with the direction and level of advancement, continuous expansion of knowledge as not knowing everything about everything absolutely followed by making a case of old revelation based concepts as better and perfect than current understanding. Le me expand it a bit more by adding the all of them rely on a limited advancements in sciences. They either dont have knowledge or no response to the advances in the life sciences. The body of scientific knowledge is perhaps 10 times or more larger in these areas than cosmology, astronomy, particle physics and evolution combined.

The so-called horizontal knowledge in health related fields with better understanding of the working of human body has led to trenmedous achievements such as lowering infant mortality and increasing average life expectancy. The list of services of better understanding is very large for presenting here. The traditional sciences did not halp much as the life expectancy and infant morality until the begining of scientific revolution reveals. The exponential rise in world population, good or bad, is directly the result of advancement of non-religious scientific knowledge.

Here in lies the trouble for this small band of Islamic or Christian science supporters. The horizontal exapnsion of wide band of knowledge has created its own vertical support. It actually has same or more logical spiritual satisfaction that religions wish to have exclusively their domain or at least have the upper hand in this area.

The other problem extending from the above mentioned one is the dfficulty of these people to believe that the current collective wisdom and knowledge is superior and more apt to modern age, outsmarting moses-jesus-mohammad trios` overnight or momentary philosophies termed as revelations. These people are really not bent upon bringing science under the small time trios thinking but more like keeping the vastly exaggerated position of them from slipping. So in effect, they are trying to preserve and protect the history of these religions` expansion. In parallel science history, no such concessions or subjective amplification is possible for the theories and understanding that failed the empirical tests, such as cold fusion and water memory effect etc mormon sciences from Brigham Young University. I mean the concept of cold fusion is as big and powerful as the concept of god but nobody bought into it. Oh well, cold fusion might be happening in another dimension that is empirically unprovable as the concept of god. So believe in it and lo and behold if mormons succeed in converting enough south Americans, one day this might be widely believed as the source of djinn power in heavens.

Fortunately this field of Islamic sciences is an obscure field, led by bunch of losers in their respective desciplines. For example Mr Gill relied on the writings of one Dr. Muzaffar Iqbal whom I personally know. First of all a Ph.D. bent upon promoting himself as doctoe without doing anything in the field of Ph.D. is cheap. This guy never held a serious chemistry job after getting Ph.D. from Saskachewan (sp?) long time ago. So instead he wrote novels and translated Mansoor Hallaj poetry into English or Urdu. At age 45, after trying for several years, he finally landed a post-doc position in Alberta. In order to keep on staying in the USA or Canada - since post-docs are temporary positions - so that his children have better life in the west. he started this Islamic scinece business out of Berkley, California and now th donations to the center are his sole souce of livelihood. Both him and Hossein Nasr use cheap tactics to promote themselves by e-mailing bragging and praising their own services with the request to friends to cut and paste the contents under their names and post them on their websites.

Basically it is a group of losers who have found it convenient to criticize the areas which failed them. It perhaps satisfies their ego to look down at the disciplines and ethics which let them down. Of course, they are able to attract few religious people in the scientific community who are usually at high school or community college level teachers.

....enjoyed hamidm`s skit lot more than the article. Keep them coming.

hamidm # 26..

Wowwww......... It`s always a treat reading your interacts. And this one beat them all !!

-avkrishna

Islam is word of ALLAH and Science is work of ALLAH. HE created man and gave him a charter to live which is called Islam. And HE is also the ONE who created Universe and its laws which humans discovered and called it Science. If the Science recognizes the Creator by its knowledge, then it is a Islamic Science (Divine knowledge). Otherwise it is a Devil`s tool which makes a man rebel of God.

``Islam is word of ALLAH and Science is work of ALLAH. HE created man and gave him a charter to live which is called Islam. And HE is also the ONE who created Universe and its laws which humans discovered and called it Science.``

Yes , yes , catchy , I believe you ;)

Kamran Sahib: In which khhood are you hiding? Please review the many criticisms of your article, and either try to honestly refute these criticism or else acknowledge you are wrong. Given the barrage of criticism, perhaps you could focus on the ``sac framework``, also discussed by sameer.

Finally, from hamidm it appears that Hazrat Jibrael (aka gabby) may be there to deliver a message to you at Starbucks. Any comments on that?

Re: # 26

On a second thought, ppl like Kamran Meer should keep writing stuff like this so we can get more of the God and Gabby episode from hamidm2 !

Just brilliant hamidm!

Re: # 39

I am glad you spoke your mind :)

``Islamic Science is wed to the Islamic revelation and to the Prophetic Traditions of Muhammad (Upon Him Be Peace) and essentially deals with reform of the human soul, which is considered the raison de aitre of human life on earth and the primary objective of Islamic Sciences.``

Nothing is easier to denounce than these cockamamie theories of Islamic revelation and reform of human soul advanced as arguments for Islamic Science. So where in human body is the soul and what is its chemical composition? What organ systems are affected by a diseased soul?

It`s always a pleasure to see sameer, hamidm and sac bring sanity to these discussions. Keep up the good work guys; you make us ``Pakistani Muslims`` proud :-)

Hopefully the author will keep his day job and leave Islamic Science to professional nutcases...

disillusioned: write `` leave Islamic Science to professional nutcases... ``

ha! ha!

Re: # 40
Sameer Sahib,
you know when I was reading this article, it seemed to me that the author had plagiarized from Syed Hossein Nasr.
Fascinating observation about the cut and paste technique.

hamidm # 26..


Gre ... aatt one! Loved it!
Some childish people here still have to learn that God and Ghosts do not exist. Its ridiculous to compare science and religion. The two have NOTHING in common. Both are very divergent.

Religion cannot be compared to science. It can only compare itself with other philosophies/beliefs.

Religion was not meant to learn about new things. It was only a belief. It is meant for peace of the inner self, etc. Ridiculous to compare science and religion. Apples and oranges.

SCIENCE WELCOMES DEBATES. RELIGION HATES DEBATES. Science is to observe. Religion is mostly blind belief and rituals.
Comments?

JamesMaxwell #39: ``Just a few clarifications. I was born in an educated muslim family in a very conservative muslim country.``

It is immaterial where you were born or not born. Or whether you are an educated Muslim or an uneducated one, or an educated athiest or an uneducated one. What is important is whether your statements are factual or not. And whether your opinions are based on facts or not.


``And my personal opinion (which no one is obliged to agree with) is that muslims are intellectually the most backward people in the world.``

Its good to see you are stating it is only your personal opinion. Obviously it is not supported by statistics that are readily available to see who is living in what type of conditions. Interestingly what you had originally suggested was that Muslims are, ``, politically, financially, culturally and technologically the most backward.`` Now you are limiting it to only intellectually.

Opinions based on falsities about whole communities lead to racist, prejudiced and bigoted attitudes and should be avoided. One should endevour to learn actual facts and then form opinions................And even then never about whole communities........

Not to get personal here, but I do have issues with people who form racist and bigoted opinions about whole communities. Specifically when they are based on false information, and cannot be backed with fact. And issues with people who support such individuals.........

pathap: ``Religion is mostly blind belief and rituals. ``

Religion AS PRACTICED BY MOST PEOPLE is blind belief and rituals (and superstition, I may add).

But the essence of religion is something much more practical: teaches values and respect for creation and learning. THAT is how religion is linked to science.

Re: # 53
Now dont go down that road, tahmed sahib, you hear!
:)

re: this article
Science has developed in the West by rebelling against the domination of Church and proving many of the long-held beliefs wrong. Science has repudiated the church dogmas about Earth being the center of universe, the Universe having started some 2000 years ago (some Clerics actually gave an exact date of this event!) so on and so forth.
This is where science`s strength lies. It does away with dogmas and superstitions.
Religion, as it is understood in today`s world, is a set of rules with a book, a prophet and a following. Aim is to attain harmony in one`s existence.
Science is attempting to unravel the truth of creation through the process of obsevation, hypothesis, testing those hypothesis until they are proved right etc. Science is dynamic. I can`t say the same about religion which is mired in rituals, superstitions and has lost the dynamism that it was supposed to have. Hindusim itself had rapidly evolved from a ``triablistic religion`` to pinnacle of belief in ``Advaita`` and then stagnated for many centuries. Today`s modern Hindu does not give much credence to his religious dogmas even though he may respect the age old philosophies of his sages and seers. In India, Science is seen as the great emancipator.
In the muslim context, this author talks about Islamising science. The very reverse needs to be done. Muslims the world over need to examine critically where their religion is taking them and make the necessary changes in their religious belief system to live in harmony. Saying that a book written by a Propehet in 7th century Arabia cannot be questioned is unscientific. In Science, anything and everything is questioned. Nothing is accepted until proved right. Newtonian laws of linear motion do not work in a 3-dimensional frame and has been done away with. Some people even question Einstein`s relativity and the accepted belief that nothing can travel faster than light. Science is in a state of flux.
In a very well written book ``Tao of Physics``, Fritjof Capra has argued how similar the modern physics is to the beliefs of ancient mystics who also talked from a direct experience but in a language that differed from Science. The analogies are interesting.
Ultimately, Science will spell death knell to all dogmas and superstitions. Does that mean people will stop believing in God? No way. It only means people will understand Him in a more rational manner.
Sridhar

re:#38 by Romair
Ha, ha.
I see that Romair is back to his old nonsense about Civilizational superiority and HDIs.
Ah well.
Like the mole on the back of my butt, somethings never change.
Sridhar

Shoresahib: But....but...sir..my chowk friends and enemies dont call me mullah for nothing. Surely I cannot disappoint them without putting in a pitch for the Lord and the Good Book. ;-)

Re: # 52

`....Opinions based on falsities about whole communities lead to racist, prejudiced and bigoted attitudes and should be avoided. One should endevour to learn actual facts and then form opinions................And even then never about whole communities........ .

The problem is you are not quoting facts. You are interpreting the facts. When you say that people are migrating to Muslim countries(I assume you mean Saudi, kuwait, and Dubai etc)
and there fore these countries are high in HDI, you are ignoring the fact that, this is due to the accident of those countries sitting on crude oil. Nothing to do with their being muslim.

Some times I pity people like you, who try to fit the facts according to their beliefs and build theories, which like sand castles come crashing down with the first wave of facts.

Interesting you had no comment on the dumbness of the article, but took up defence of the preceived slight of Muslim Ummah.

ajeet,

........ you will have to forgive romair who suffers from the pak fauji syndrome which leads delusional faujis and ex-faujis to actually believe that they know everything about everything .......... that disease has given us ayub khan, yahya khan, tiger niazi, sahibzada yaqub ali khan, tikka khan, hamid gul, javed nasir, aslam beg and pervez musharraf .........

....... the only thing worse than a wild-eyed mullah is a know-it-all fauji ........... that`s why god has chosen kamran meer instead of romair to spread his message .........

Re: # 58

Thanks for bringing up very pertinent points!

ajeet #58: ``The problem is you are not quoting facts. You are interpreting the facts. When you say that people are migrating to Muslim countries(I assume you mean Saudi, kuwait, and Dubai etc) ............and there fore these countries are high in HDI, you are ignoring the fact that, this is due to the accident of those countries sitting on crude oil. Nothing to do with their being muslim. ``

I never said it had anything to do with their being Muslim or non-Muslim. I was just commenting about a point made by an earlier replier when he stated, ``Muslims are intellectually, politically, financially, culturally and technologically the most backward people in the world today.``

I simply highlighted, based on Human Development Index figures that this is not true. Which it isn`t. Go and check the figures yourself......If the figures do not indicate that, then do let me know. Otherwise accept the point. It would be as ridiculous as my saying that the average member of the Muslim civilization is living better than the average member of the Western civilization. I can keep believing it if I want because it may make me feel good. But that does not make it true.............

And you are making an incorrect assumption when you state, Saudi, Kuwait, etc. You are making an incorect assumption. I meant the average of all the countries. This includes Malaysia, Turkey, Indonesia, Morroco, Egypt etc....

But as I said, if someone wants to keep making bigoted statement and those too made on false information, about any community, as some people are prone to do, it is upto them. I can only highlight the facts. If you still want to believe that Muslims are worse off than everyone else...........Kindly be my guest.........But isn`t that what people blame the maulvis for, i.e. that they think Muslims are better off than anyone living in Europe and North America............

All of this has nothing to do with religion, by the way.........It is simply statistics. Jews aren`t better off because they are Jewish and Americans aren`t better off because they are Christian.......I am surprised people are hell-bent upon bringing religion into everything........

ZahraJ/hamidm #: I have conquered many a folk (apparently on this site) and left them bitter in my wake................... :-)

Both of you are grown man and woman. You need to come up with better arguments than this............I know you can do better.........Perhaps I have been too harsh on both of you....... Both of you are too easy a target, since you easily provokable........


Do keep in mind, I am not the one in bed with Christian Evangelists................One can not rant and rave about religon, and then support the Christian Coalition........One completely loses all credibiltiy.............

But as long as Urstruly is declaring me an Ahmedi, while living in the USA, and Hamidm declaring me a maulvi, while being the spokesperson for the Jerry Fallwel and Co., I think I am OK.........it is a sign of objectivity............

Debate the point............Not the person.......if you can...........

Hamidm (#26)

Hamindm Sahib, fine if gaby and God will not allow a new messenger. There is a hope and yet another competitive opportunity to create own religious group of followers. You can certainly complete a Trilogy of - Satyam, Shivam and Sundram. Of course you may have to become Sundram - loosely defining the energy that is beauty and all things beautiful. Assuming that Mrs. Hamidm will certify you as the energy that is beauty and represents all things beautiful and would not feel threatened as loosing her husband to Bhagwan Rajnisham (sorry, Bhagwan Hamidm).

There is indeed a vacancy to discredit already discredited Huntington`s Clash of Civilization. Funnily, the still most ardent believers of Discredited Clash of Civilization are religious mullahs under a perceived threat to their survival. Althoug they may need an Anglo-Saxon name, like Samuel huntington, to move their message beyond ``hum aur humara .... khatre mein!!!``

Anil

ajeet #58: ``Interesting you had no comment on the dumbness of the article, but took up defence of the preceived slight of Muslim Ummah.``

Dumb people aren`t dangerous. But racists and bigots are very dangerous.........Dumb comments aren`t going to cause too much harm.........Racist and bigoted comments are going to cause a lot of harm............

I am surprised to see so much support for racism and bigotry on this site.........I am surprised you support it...........For example, do you think, ``Muslims are intellectually, politically, financially, culturally and technologically the most backward people in the world today?``

I have interacted with ZahraJ and hamidm, and they do hold such bigoted comments, to the point of supporting US invasions of even Pakistan..............Do you hold this view also?

#64: Since you are a duffer and a liar par excellence, I thought I will my post my statement made on another board here. Do not dare to misquote me again, evil creature!

``That day is not very far when western nations/institutions will enter Pakistan to save the muslims from their fellow evil brethren.``

Romair #61
(....All of this has nothing to do with religion, by the way.........It is simply statistics. Jews aren`t better off because they are Jewish and Americans aren`t better off because they are Christian.......I am surprised people are hell-bent upon bringing religion into everything........)

It all points to one direction, Romair, how single minded you are that you cannot even read that in only a few lines before the above mentioned lines you introduce ``Muslim Civilization``, and then switch to Western Civilization (no mention of Christian - reglion as the adjective to qualify civilization, here). Please see and smell the reality, one interpretation of the fact you state is that no one wants to accept you as part of their group. Urstruly wants you to Ahmadi, Hamidm wants you to be Maulvi. Almost no one wants to believe that they are like you, Romair. Now you can certainly delude that it means that you are more objective than others. Come on Romair, even your overtures to recruit Nazar Hyat Khan - and ex Fauji - I believed failed.

Elsewhere you had quoted, Pew Research (??) that India is on a higher rank in being religious than Pakistan. Another, and correct interpretation can be that since Pakistan is a uni-religion country, while India - believe it or not has multiple religions. Thus from the data presented it can be safely said that multiple religions are practised with more fervor in one country (India) and while in the other country only one religion is practised with great fervor. Its obvious conclusion may bother YLH, but should not bother you.

In your single-minded approach you fail to see all possible interpretation of the statistics. I suggest open your mind to all other possibilities, the results can be quite dramatic for you also. What you call as facts and statistics are your interpretation of statistical data and of what you want to recognize as facts. This is no different than a competent prosecutor who is prosecuting a case and also trying to defend the thesis he/she presents. The reality is that he/she is not a judge. In your case, ironically you try to be a judge, a jury, a prosecutor and a defender all in one. Certain jurisprudence system we all live in do not allow it, no matter how impartial the person may be. You live in this jurisprudence system like most of the people on the Chowk.

Anil

Romair #61
(....All of this has nothing to do with religion, by the way.........It is simply statistics. Jews aren`t better off because they are Jewish and Americans aren`t better off because they are Christian.......I am surprised people are hell-bent upon bringing religion into everything........)

The cost of practicing a religion for each person can be calculated rather easily and estimates for maintaining a religion in a society can be made also. The cost per society varies from society to society and from religion to religion. More intrusive religions like Islam end up costing Muslim societies more when normalized to the wealth of that sociery than most Christian societies.

Many Russian Jews are better off simply because they are Jewish. Read about the making of Russian Oligarchs somewhere on the net or in some book. I believe 7 out of 8 oligarchs are Jewish. Ethiopian Jews are better off now in Israel because they were Jewish and airlifted by Israel.

No, you should not be surprised at people bringing religion into everything because it is religion which demands intrusion into everything....that is what word ``deen`` means...

This is the first in a series of articles about a subject almost unknown to the modern mentality in the present dark ages in which we live. The article had to be necessarily condensed due to chowk editorial limitations, hence left many questions open. Readers who keep up with the upcoming ``Foundations of Traditional Science`` series of articles will have their questions answered including the meaning of ``vertical`` and ``horizontal`` dimensions.

My objective to show a re-look at earlier sciences because us moderns are completely ignorant about it, thanks to ``secular`` scholarship about ``medieval`` history.

Its interesting that most comments against this article carry the same fervor as that inherent in religious dogma that is divorced from its inner meaning.

Try re-evaluating your comments after the follow-on articles. This is a vast subject and needs a cool understanding.

Re: # 67
This is the first in a series of articles about a subject almost unknown to the modern mentality in the present dark ages in which we live. The article had to be necessarily condensed due to chowk editorial limitations, hence left many questions open. Readers who keep up with the upcoming ``Foundations of Traditional Science`` series of articles will have their questions answered including the meaning of ``vertical`` and ``horizontal`` dimensions.

My objective to show a re-look at earlier sciences because us moderns are completely ignorant about it, thanks to ``secular`` scholarship about ``medieval`` history.

Its interesting that most comments against this article carry the same fervor as that inherent in religious dogma that is divorced from its inner meaning.

Try re-evaluating your comments after the follow-on articles. This is a vast subject and needs a cool understanding.

59 - Hamidm you are simply great! I like it when you say

``....... the only thing worse than a wild-eyed mullah is a know-it-all fauji ........... that`s why god has chosen kamran meer instead of romair to spread his message .........``

But ofcourse Romair is following SAC`s dictum to the last m.

Re: # 52
The only reason I mentioned my background was that I have experienced Islamic backwardness first hand, not learned about it through the media. Intellectual degeneration leads to other forms of backwardness, as has happened in the case of the Ummah. The backwardness of the Ummah, in all fields of human endeavour, is not my ``opinion based on falsities``; it is a fact. If someone does not want to accept facts, that is his/her choice.

Romair ``All of this has nothing to do with religion, by the way.........It is simply statistics. Jews aren`t better off because they are Jewish and Americans aren`t better off because they are Christian.......I am surprised people are hell-bent upon bringing religion into everything........``

That is true to certain extent. BUt what explains the lousy state of the arab countries and some of those in their periphery. The arab states are the ones on whom god has bestwoed immense wealth yet on many indeces they are miserable. Look for the reason why they are like that..........

the meditations of Hamidm could point you in a direction perhaps.

When you Islamize science it will no longer be science. A lot of western science may be also that. If some or other -ism has been allowed interfer in making a determination in science then whether it has come from west or whether it is Islamized or Hinduized or Vedicized it is not anymore science.

Sorry I did not read the article. But title itself needed comment.

mr. meer: i read your article and you obviously have a very confused and superficial understanding of both science and of religion, and are clueless on the essence of both. Like other proponents of ``Islamic science``. By cloaking your ignorance in terms of ``Islam`` and ``Science``, you merely debase both Islam and Science. Modern science has many defenders on this board. Religion has none, other than myself and I am fed up myself with arguing on the subject.

So, jump on to your magic ``Ooran Khatola`` powered by 3 JinnPower SuperIslamic Motors and the Laws of Mullah Science and have fun visiting the Seven Heavens. Be sure to take your Bukhari`s Book of Spells along with you.

``Islamic Science``?

I am unclear as to what this creature is... and I think of myself as a Muslim... are you using the word ``Islamic`` as a demographic concept (you could say Muslim science or science worked upon by Muslim scientists)... because thats the only way it could make any sense...

If this science extracted from the Quran as a source... then my friend, isn`t that a limiting factor... and a negation of the message itself? I mean... don`t we call the verses of the Quran ``Ayah`` or ``Signs``? And that these signs are found not only the Quran but in nature itself? Far from it that I challenge the immutable scriptures, but my god man... how the hell are you going learn physics from the holy Quran or the Bible or whatever other scripture ?

Yesterday I had the opportunity of listening to Stephen Cohen of the Brookings institute ... here in Lahore... he was mostly positive about Pakistan... but one area which he was very pessimistic about was the state of our education, particularly the scientific learning.

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Anil Sahab...

I think a fresh new census is required in Pakistan... and an investigation should be launched into why the results of 1997 census were NEVER made public. Based on my discussions with few people, and conclusions drawn by not just me but a group of us... Pakistan`s minorities are definitely between 15-20 million people, Christians constituting the highest number followed by Hindus, and a splattering of Sikhs, Parsis, Bahais and Buddhists. If you include Ahmadis as non-muslims, as per the current constitution of the Islamic Republic, the figure will go above 27-28 million almost....

I think great things can happen when you have such a huge number...

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romair mian,

......... i know better than to argue with an ex-fauji ......... i grew up surrounded by faujis and even now, when in pakistan, i cannot have dinner without some brigadier or air commodore ruining it with the ghq version of geopolitics, religion, physics, medicine, philosphy, and metaphysics ....... and, i must say, the curriculum hasn`t changed much since i was at kakul ......... and it is getting worse - recently, an uncle, who is a retired infantry brigadier, took up homeopathy after toying with astrology and journalism for a few years!

......... in any case, stop relying on statistics if you hope to become a successful entrepreneur - you know what they say about statistics ?........how about these statistics: the gdp of the entire arab world is less than spain`s, there are more than 160 jewish nobel prize winners compared to 5 arabs and israel publishes more books than all the 250 million bedouins put together ............so what does that mean ?...........heck, i don`t know ............ forget the statistics - all you have to do is look around .......what do you see?...... all i see is obscurantists like kamran spouting nonsense and their peanut gallery of mullahs and faujis rushing them ....... no? ......... (by the way, where are urstruly and echo boom - they have been strangely silent since the election in iraq) ...........

p.s. if kamran meer doesn`t show up to have his little chat with gabriel, you still have a chance at prophethood .......... but just remember, god does not like smart alecks who start every sentence with the word ``I`` even if they have been successful corporate officers, homeopaths, and entrepreneurs ......... ``He`` does not like competition .........

hamidm: in a military corps numbering in the tens of thousands, you are bound to find a pocketful of nuts, a truckload of colonel blimps. you will also find a basketful of crazies - except they are crazy like a fox that goes laughing to the bank. of course, romair is unique. i recommend him to be considered for field marshall. he will be the third field marshall then.

the first one was ayub khan. the second one .... i leave that for the learned people on chowk to name (no kidding - there was a second field marshall, an honorary one albeit).

A dear friend of mine wrote an article about ``Al Razi`` the greatest physician produced by the Muslim world ... and undoubtedly the father of modern medicine.... The reason why people like Al Razi were found in the Muslim world then, was because there was not attempt to ``Islamize`` Science at that time....

I hope Mr. Meer will pay heed t it.

http://www.naseeb.com/naseebvibes/prose-detail.php?aid=1845

One can see that the earlier period of Islam was far more tolerant of such dissent than Muslims of today

History has produced humans of exceptional abilities among all races of people. There are some who are inspired by the lot of the meek and make it their purpose in life to raise their stock. Others in seeking answers to complex and eternal questions garner the courage to come up with new ways of thinking. Regardless of what the situation, the reason for the endeavors of great people is inspired by the time they live in and the circumstances surrounding them. Here is a brief glimpse at one such exceptional individual.

Muhammad Zakariya Al-Razi (or Rhazes as he’s known in the West) was born in 865 in the Persian city of Rayy from where comes the name Razi. According to the great traveler and historian Al-Biruni, in his early life Al-Razi was a jeweler, money-changer, and very likely a lute-player. He first left music for alchemy and then at the age of 30 or 40 left alchemy because his experiments in it gave him some eye disease which obliged for him to search for medicine and doctors. In the process he became the greatest physician of his time.

His treatise on small pox and measles was the basis for the future treatment of these diseases. By perfecting methods of distillation and extraction, he was able to discover sulfuric acid, and also prepare alcohol by fermenting sweet products. Al-Razi’s most well-known book was al-Hawi, the nine-volume encyclopedia known in Europe as The Large Comprehensive orContinens Liber . Based on this book alone, many scholars considered Razi as the greatest medical doctor of the Middle Ages. Aside from the study of medicine, the book includes Al-Razi’s own interpretations and opinions which are almost entirely based


Based on this book alone, many scholars considered Razi as the greatest medical doctor of the Middle Ages.




on sound logic derived from observations- something not common in that age.

Because of his expertise, he was put in charge of the world famous Muqtadari Hospital in Baghdad and was able to gather many of his observations from his stay. In keeping with Al-Razi’s overall philosophy of giving value and significance to the abilities of the average person, he wrote a medical manual dedicated (the first of its kind) to the poor which they could carry around. It contained remedies, cures and other advice for treatment of common ailments when a doctor was not present.

Razi’s achievements in the field of medicine are many – from discovering allergic asthma to being the first to realize that the fever a was natural mechanism of the body to fight disease to rejecting many of Galen’s claims on the premise that sound medical practice demands independent thinking (and thus not on any abstract or cosmological notions). However, his other contributions are often ignored.

Like many physicians of the time, Razi was also a renowned philosopher. Yet, his views have been subject to being ignored at best and censored or suppressed at worst.

Consequently, much of Razi’s work on philosophy has been lost. Most of what is known is based on the documented arguments with the Ismaili opponent Abu Hatim Al-Razi in the latter’s Alam al-Nubuwwa.

For Al-Razi, reason is supreme. This is best expressed in his al-Tibb al-Ruhani.

God, glorious is His name, has given us reason in order to obtain through it from the present and future the utmost benefits that we can obtain; it is God’s best gift to us… By reason we perceive all that is useful to us and all that makes our


life good – by it we know obscure and remote things, those which are hidden from us…by it, too, we succeed to the knowledge of God, which is the highest knowledge we can obtain…If reason is so highly placed and is of such an important rank, we should not degrade it; we should not make it the judged while it is the judge, or controlled while it is the controller, or commanded while it is the commander; on the contrary, we should refer to it in everything and judge all matters by it; we should do according as it commands us to do.

With reason being sufficient, Razi goes on to reject both revelation and prophecy.

He rejects the miraculousness (i’jaz) of the divinely revealed books and candidly states that it is possible to write a better book in a better style. Books of science – on astronomy, medicine, geometry – are more useful than the scriptures as the former came about from men’s own intelligence rather than through prophets.

According to Razi, it would be highly unreasonable for God to send prophets as they do far more harm than good. Different nations and people believe in different prophets. This has resulted in divisions and tremendous bloodshed. Thus this was one of the reasons all those who claimed to be Prophets were out right rejected. Another was that since Al-Razi believed that all humans (at least potentially if not always) were equal in their ability to grasp reason, there was absolutely no logic to having someone claim they were ‘chosen’ or divinely inspired in any way.

To the claim of people claiming to be prophets or claiming to perform miracles the title of his book Mahariq al-anbiyaa makes his


Though Maimonides and Averros expressed similar views about religious habits being the root of prejudices and other ills connected to religion, Razi was savagely blunt about such attitudes and did not restrain himself to objective analysis.




position very clear. He rejects all such claims as merely fraudulent tricks.

Razi was unsparing in his criticism of those he saw were ridiculing reason. His deprecation of religious dignitaries who indulged in the process of conveying the hadith is shown in his tirade:

They adopted this approach as a result of their being long accustomed to their re