Hajj in contemporary times

Re: # 23

Sorry, dear, I think we have reached the dead end of our discussion. In fact it is useless to discuss subjective matters rationally. You say you do not `worship` the BS. Only kiss it as a ritual because the Prophet had kissed it. But as I said Prophet had kissed many things then why did not you make them all as rituals. Why Hazrat Umar had shown revulsion while kissing the Stone. Above all why Hussain, the dearest grandson of the prophet, was Karballad. No it is the sheer innate paganism which makes people to bow before the Stone and kiss it. You may call it by any name but, mind dear, the idol worshippers do no more than this before their idols.

Just see this picture:

Sorry I could not paste that horrible picture of ritualistic-cum-political stuntbazi of the PM at public cost. I will try to send it to you by email. By the way can you please guide me how Inpage, grapgics and pctures, etc. can be pasted here.

Re: # 22
Dear Tesha you have reaised a very pertinent issue. The question is what God do we follow. Do we follow the God of our Whims as did Satan. God told him to prostrate before Adam but he refused. He would not object to prostrating before God, however, he had declined to accept God`s order. Why did Satan do so? God enjoined upon the nation of Salah (AS) to respect Hazrat Salah`s camal. Does it mean that Hindus respecting Cow are equal to those people of Hazrat Salah (AS) who obeying the command of God had respected the Camal. We kiss only one stone however we throw stones at three collums made of stones. We don`t WORSHIP black stone. We kiss it because Holy Prophet PBUH had also kissed it as part of ritual of Tawwaf and had begun his Tawwaf making it the starting point. The so-called muslims in 61 H did a great injustice to Imam Hussain (AS). The Imam stemmed the rot which was rolled in just after the demise of Holy Prophet PBUH. His sacrifice was superhuman and is still remembered in certain parts of the world with great devotion and sanctity. We need to uphold the banner of Hussain and translate the lessons of Kerbala into our lives to spread the light of wisdom, love and self-sacrifice to bring peace and security to humanity which are the real objectives of Islam. Thanks

I wonder why the black stone worshipping Muslims evince no abhorrence to shirk as was shown by Hazrat Umar while kissing the stone. It is the innate abhorrence to Shirk created in my mindset by Islam that I cannot help treating Stone kissing as manifest shirk if done as a religious ritual.

This raises many questions of fundamental nature. For instance,`` What is Sunnat?``. Are we bound to kiss every thing which the Prophet kissed just as an expression of human sentiment and not as a religious ritual. He used to kiss his grand son, Hussain, but what the so called Muslims did with him. The fact is that the man is by nature stone-worshipper, those worshipping the only and one black stone are called Muslims and those worshipping the `Shiv Ling` are called Hindus. Should they not be called the `Nationsof the Black stone`?

Re: # 19

Dear Tesha, Yes Hajj and Umra cannot be performed on the expense of public. Our leaders must understand that because by doing so instead of pleasing God they are earning His wrath. However if our pm has gone to SA for some other work and he takes advantage of the opportunity being there to perform Umra then I don`t think there is any harm in doing so. The question relates to Fiqh and Islamic scholars permit such things in the situation I have mentioned above.
Regarding the history and sanctity of the Blak Stone I have already sent two articles to you. By now you might have received them. I need your educative opinion on them. I don`t know the author of the second article on the history of the stone therefore I have sent it without author`s name, however, the substance is authentic to me.
It is not shirk to kiss the Black Stone because our Holy Prophet PBUH also did it and a prophet being infallible cannot and would not commit shirk. The articles may answer some of your doubts. At the same time I request other friends on chowk to bring forth some useful material to satisfy you. Thanks

Re: # 19

Dear Tesha, Yes Hajj and Umra cannot be performed on the expense of public. Our leaders must understand that because by doing so instead of pleasing God they are earning His wrath. However if our pm has gone to SA for some other work and he takes advantage of the opportunity being there to perform Umra then I don`t think there is any harm in doing so. The question relates to Fiqh and Islamic scholars permit such things in the situation I have mentioned above.
Regarding the history and sanctity of the Blak Stone I have already sent two articles to you. By now you might have received them. I need your educative opinion on them. I don`t know the author of the second article on the history of the stone therefore I have sent it without author`s name, however, the substance is authentic to me.
It is not shirk to kiss the Black Stone because our Holy Prophet PBUH also did it and a prophet being infallible cannot and would not commit shirk. The articles may answer some of your doubts. Thanks.

Re: # 17

Thank you, dear Javed. Ali Shariati was indeed a great thinker. I read a number of his writings but not the one you mentioned. I was greatly impressed by him, but we are here discussing ritualism in Islam as practiced in contemporary times, especially the `puja` of the black stone and that too at public cost in the Pakland. I would however welcome your email. My email address is:talawat@hotmail.com.

As regards the saying of Hazrat Umar, as far as I know, he is also stated to have said while addressing the stone,``I know that you are a mere stone but I kiss you because the Prophet had kissed you``. But today the ritualists are giving it the status of `Ulwahiyat`, some thing having divine attributes. This in my view is sheer Shirk. Even Hindu idolators do not indulge in such a shirk as they believe their stone idols to be mere stones having no divine attributes whatsoever but mere symbols.

Re: # 16
Dear Tesha pl send me your current email address so that I can send you the chapter of the book on Hajj by Dr. Ali Shariati. My email is ``syedjaved14@yahoo.com`` thanks

Re: # 16
Dear Tesha pl read ``Hajj`` by Dr. Ali Shariati. You will get all the answers relating to Hajj. In my view this is a ``must`` book for you. You will enjoy reading it. It discusses Hajj in an unconventional way. Pl also let me know your opinion. Through google directory you can reach the book and then down load it. Presently I am sending one chapter of that book separately to you on your address. You have mentioned Hazrat Omer regarding the sanctity of Black Stone. Rather the event goes like this.``Once while kissing the stone Omer said I would not kiss you if I had not seen Holy Prophet PBUH kissing you.`` thanks

Re: # 15

``The sanctity of Black Stone is sanctioned and protected by HolyProphet PBUH and his Ahle Bait (AS)``.

I am not aware of the above. I only know a tradition according to which Hazrat Umar had kissed the stone out of love for the prophet but with a revulsion (Abahat) only because the prophet had kissed it (May be not as a religious ritual but only because of nostalgia due to a long seperation from it). Can you please quote any authentic tradition, etc., in support of your contention that worship of the stone is sanctified as a religious ritual.

Sorry, I could not find your article in the Observer.

Re: # 14

Dear Tesha your are right that humanity has always been at loggerheads with obscurentists, extremists and blockheads. God sent Holy Prophets to make people wise. Pl read my article on ``The so-called Islamic Extremism`` published in Pakistan Observer on 23-11-2004. (www.pakobserver.net) I am sure we have identityof views on this point. However, humanity had mutured to this extent that God Almight in his own wisdom decided to terminate the line of Prophethood and finalise it with the arrival of Holy Prohet Muhammad PBUH. In Quran we have eternal message in our hands. The Quran and Ahle-Bait-e- Muhammad will guide us now till the day of judgement and will take us to HolyProphet PBUH at fountain Kausar.
The sanctityof Black Stone is sanctioned and protected by HolyProphet PBUH and his Ahle Bait (AS). It is just like respecting the Camel of Hazrat Saleh (AS) or other similar things such as running betweem Safa and Marwa etc.
Yes, Islam has absolute regard and respect for human life so much so that all prayers and does and donts of Sharia are made subject to the safety and security of human life. Pl enlighten me after you have read the recommended article on extremism.

Re: # 13

Thank you dear Javed. The tragedy is that the religion without a living prophet becomes a sword in the hands of tyrants and obscurantists. They are by their nature anti-human and anti-prophet. They don`t tolerate even those who relate themselves to the prophet and are targetting peoples whom they even suspect to be his progeny. For them the black stone which they call with Arabic name as ``Hajre Aswad`` (though they have converted Arabic `Salat` into a persian `Namaz`)is a divine being but even the progeny of the prophet are `Kafirs`and `Wajibul-qatl`. So what are the signs of Allah. Isn`t the Adam the greatest sign of Allah Who had cursed Iblees for refusing to prostrate before him. At least so says the Quran which they profess to believe. So is not the Man , the progeny of adam, the greatest sign of Allah. What the greatest humanist of all times Bulle Shah had said:-

``Masjid, dha de , mandir dha de, dha de jo kujh dhenda
ik bande da dil nah dhaweeN Rab dillaN wich rehnda``

(Destroy all false signs of God but don`t blaspheme against the man as God does not live in masjid or mandir but in the heart of the man).

Re: # 12 Dear Tesha, No religion is without rituals so why to blame Islam for sanctifying certain rituals. Hajj these days is being performed according to the sayings and practice of Holy Prophet PBUH. We can however augument the utility of Hajj in the light of teachings of Islam in the changing times perticulary now when Ummah is facing challenges of unknown magnitude.
We are from God and we will certainly return to Him. This phase we call life is very important because the fruit of this life is eternal blessings or curse for us. We need to spend it only or try to spend it the way God ordained for us. Our Aql is to help us in this regard which we call ``the hidden prophet` in us. We are free to choose the path to Hell or Heaven. There is no compulsion in Islam. We must respect ``signs of God`` as in the Quran God says respecting signs of God is great and bebeficial for us. The Quran has named many things as signs of God such as Safa and Marwa, black stone etc.
Isam does offer a code of ethics to spend life peacefully. It is complete code of life to those who accept it as such. It does not forces itself on other people and those who are doing so in the name of Islam they are doing a great disservice to Islam and are earning nothing but wrath of God because they are acting completely against the spirit of Islam.
I respect your opinion and have not taken any offence. I appreciate your criticism.

Re: # 11

I am sorry dear if you took me as biased against Islamic ritualists. I did not criticize Islam as such, but I cannot conceal my revulsion against certain ritualistic practices which I consider paganistic and against the spirit of Islam which you call `Touheed``. I am not a `Secularist` if you mean it to be `Laadeen` but I do believe that Truth, Morality and `Aql` are above `Faith` or `Aqeeda`. The rise and fall of any `Umma`is determined by these principles and not by ritualism and schavinistic sectarianism. So when you talk of Touheed and ritualism bordering on `Shirk` in the same breath you are obviously contradicting yourself and insulting reason or Aql and thus close the door on discussion. This is what all religionists do. They construct their own reality on the basis of their `Aqeeda` and then call it `Mukammal Zabitae Hayyat`. So thought the paganistic Arabs but the Quran broke their atomized belief with the power of reason (Braaheen) and caused the explosion of Islam releasing the power which with passage of time got solidified into ritualism of today, manifested in its worst form in the Pakland.
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Re: # 10 Dear Teshah,
Whatever we do we cannot do away with religion in our lives. Every one is following some sort of set of rules. Even those who claim to be secular even in their personal lives they follow certain set of rules in their life. So why to be angry on people who follow Islam as their mode of life. The article hints are one aspect of Islam. The occasion of Hajj that is not being utilize fully by Ummah. It does not censore anyother religion. I pray to Almighty God be kind on all humanity and bring the light and peace of Islam to all. Unfortunately certain elements within the community of Islam, who are in acute minority, who have acted rashly and earned bad name to Islam. Islam itself should not be discounted for their deeds.
You call for banishing all such articles from Chowk. What kind of wisdom is this? Is this the freedom of expression secular persons like you propound and support? We as humanbeings should not hate other people because of their beliefs. This is the message of Islam which has temporarily been lost upon the world at large. I wish you all the best and request you to kindly reread the article and comment upon its contents without allowing your personal bias interfere with your reading. Good Luck!

A Punjabi poet had said: -

Pathar di pooja hondi e ki kahbe ki but khane
Faraq sirf enaN e ik gharhiae ik ungharhia e

(Black stone is worshipped both in Kahba and Butkhana, the only difference being that the black
Stone in Kahba is unchiselled whereas the one in Butkhana, `the Shivling` is the chiselled one.)

They play with the Satan by throwing small pebbles on its granite idol, rather three of them, now
converted into just a wall, in this age when an atom bomb can finish all these satans.

My question is why is it that the greatest leaders of the Indian Muslims, Quaide Azam and Allama Iqbal
did not perform either Haj or Umra. All those `leaders` who came afterwards performed the ritual as their first priority. They were all selfish and selfseekers
like all hajies. They even started performing Haj and Umra at public expence. What a joke they have
made of this ritual which in any case has a pagan origin. The only difference Islam made is treating it as
Qibla No.2, Qibla awwal being still the BeitulMaqdas.

At the end I may requrst that chowk should not be allowed to be made a forum for such `tableeghi`
Articles which may draw criticism not palatable to the religion-mongers.

Re: # 8 Yes, You have got it right. I must point out, as you already know, that Islam does not make any distinction among humanbeings on the basis of cast, clour, creed and profession. If we do so we are doing so under the influence of other ideologies or cultures we interact with. Islamic teachings are very clear. Labourers are hightly respected people because they swet out and earn their livings with honest labour. We have been ordained to perform hajj if we are able to do so once in our lives. We must do this. It entirely depends on us how good we are to benefit from Hajj in changing times as Ummah in the best manners.

i think the basic idea (purpose) behind this great yearly event was for the muslims to interact with each other and discuss their problems. But with the time it became a ritual as other religions pilgrimages. since ajamis cant interact with arabs because of language and in the eyes of arabs; ajamis are 2nd class muslims (like in pakistan we treat pathan laborers).

Re: # 2 How can you say tht it is an outdated idea? Pl clarify. No believing Muslim can say this. This is one of the pillars of Islam.

Re: # 1 How can you say tht it is an outdated idea? Pl clarify. No believing Muslim can say this. This is one of the pillars of Islam.

Dear Temporal- Now it lies on us to take up the task of putting things in right order. But how should we do this? Only through love, spirit of accommodation, and kind words we can put our meanings across to hostile listeners. In the present context it has become our abiding responsibility to do this as violence, murder, and plunder perpetrated by irrational, biggotted and semiliterate mullah has really earned bad name to Islam and done a great disservice to Islam. We need to revive prestine teachings of Islam and bring forth real beauty of the teachings of Islam which inculcate only love, peace, serenity, wisdom and prosperity and promotes human civilisation divorced from all kinds of coercion and intimidation. May God we realise this!

daktar sahib aap nay theek tashkhis ki

humaray Huzoor nay teen sO saath bo`ot saaf kardyay

aur hum kumnaseebOn nay kaaba kO bo`ot bana dya

Kul tawaf-e Kaaba meiN poochaa ye dil se zuhn nay
buutt gaye iss ghar se buutt-khana parasti ruh gaiee

temporal,

``Hajj in present context is an outdated concept``

No, what IS getting outdated (and fast) is taking any and all Islamic traditions and slapping the label ``outdated`` on them. Even the ones that quite frankly are hard to object to!

If you fear about Haj being a money grab, then let`s get rid of the self-proclaimed ``protectors``. They have nothing to do with Haj anyway....

ijmaa and ijtihad is called for...

Hajj in present context is an outdated concept

and

a revenue grab by the protectors of the harmain;)