Desperately Seeking Dictators and Dissenters

Farzana, here is a clarification.

I noticed that in your reply (#68) to my earlier interact (#58), you appended two comments at the end which are NOT MINE. I do not agree with the tone or content of those two comments. That is just not my style of communication.

You probably already knew that, but it never hurts to clarify!

Bye for now.

``JNU strudents - the best and brightest of the nation.``

JNU students are largely duffers studying arts who could not get science or tech courses. They are the best and brightest of third divisioners.

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#82 by stuka

Well - academically of course the JNU guys are not the ``best and brightest``. But many of them are pretty sharp otherwise and do show flashes of leadership skills. Either way - these guys end up being leaders in politics, economics, IAS, press - so their ideologies makes a lot of impact.

And the result is for all to see. 60 years down the drain - the country is still poor, wretched, weak and a joke in the comity of nations. Of course the IT guys have been some saving grace lately, an island of achievement in the cesspool of extreme foolishness. But that can only go so far.

And even then - the IT guys are derided as code coolies - by the King of M0r0ns , Mr Prafool Bidwai. Even though, as self-proclaimed champions of the underdog - he should be sympatheitc to coolies. So you can imagine the level of ideological stupidity that these guys profess.

for Muslim`s certitude -- whether progressive or regressive -- there is always a razor thin line between democracy and distatorship.....a believer`s genetic defect present even in disbelief....

Re: # 79
//... If it is under US pressure, so what? ...//

So a lot of things. It means that when the pressure is off, jihad will be back. US won`t be there forever holding the paki head down in the toilet bowl, will it?

Keep in mind - the basic paki ideology has not changed. Jihad has not been abandoned - it has been saved into cold storage, for a later time. When the right time comes - it will be back again.

Mushy may not be Saddam [ Mostly because, he has not been given the required time and he doesn`t have the oil resource] but don`t let that be a consolation for you. It`s like saying your local goonda may be bad but atleast he is not like Dawood Ibrahim.

So don`t get fooled by Mushy`s acquiescence under pressure and don`t be be complacent. Yes - it`s good that Mushy is doing the right things - thank god for small mercies. But it pays to realize that - at the basics, nothing has changed. So take the good things while they last and be prepared for the eventual blowback - is all I am saying.

Re:mohar#86

All Indians know this. We are careful of every step with Pakistan. At the same time, this is a great opportunity for us to peacefully turn upside down the entire establishment in Pakistan by creating a hardcore peace constituency. Once there is pipeline revenue coming in and the army officers/feudals are vacationing in Srinagar with their families, how much incentive will there be to start another jihad? We should not be so scared of Pakistan that we can never take any risks.

Amit ...look you sound like a middle aged guy but exhibit the naivety of a goody-goody child. It never was about Kashmir to begin with. It has always been about `CRUSH INDIA`. Kashmir is/was just an instrument towards that end. Thats just the way it is , and this is the sort of enemy Indians must deal with.

Pakistanis are not normal people. They have an irrational hatred for India which characterises them , and drives them to do some really wild stuff. Kargil-1999 for instance , was a product of this irrational hatred. Right now , this hatred has been bottled-up temporarily. To expect long term rational behaviour from the Pakistanis by offering them sops of any nature is foolhardy to say the least.

Re:avenger#89

The only person who is not normal is you. You seem to be really scared of muslims bordering on a phobia. I don`t know why. Maybe you are a Kashmiri Pundit who had a hard time. Otherwise, I cant understand how a normal Indian can be so scared of Pakistanis.

#89 ,

Well thats a first....for a long time here on chowk myself and other Indian posters had grown accustomed to the equating of hatred of Pakistan with hatred for followers of a certain religion. But now we have a guy with an Indian sounding name saying the same thing.

Jeez. Here goes. A much used and abused response...

Muslims != Pakistan...

And I am not supposed to be a normal Indian because of my not so warm feelings towards Pakistan ? Also , I fail to understand the `scare` part. Yes I am scared of exams and stuff like that...

Re: # 87
//....how much incentive will there be to start another jihad?...//

You don`t understand concept of Jihad, do you? Money, vacations in Srinagar or whatever - these things may be ``incentives`` for you - certainly not for jihadis :)

Re:mohar#92

Jihad needs sponsors and funding. There will always be fundos available to do anything from a manpower perspective. However, if they dont have the backing of the elite and powerful forces in Pakistan, they cannot do anything. I do believe that the elite in Pakistan is highly conscious of its self-interest. Look how quickly they dumped the Taliban. I am suggesting that it will go against their self-interest to start jihad again after gaining billions in transit fees from gas pipelines and the opportunity to play golf at Gulmarg.

Dear Farzana:
#66

Yes, I do admire Lee Kuan YIew as I do Musharraf. But there is difference. Lee came to power legitimately as the leader of a polticial party in an election. He was more an authrotiarian leader than a dictator. He moved out of the office by himself. He did not allow freewheeling opposition parties or a freewheeling press but he did not trample over the constitution. I would add that, despite being a dictatorship, Pakistan is a freer scoiety with freer media and opposition parties than Singapore. Still, it doesn`t make Singapore a dictatorship.


Mohar#73

You must be mistaking me for someone else. I am on record saying that Musharraf has not destroyed India-specific jihaid infrastructure and has kept his option open to turn the jihadi tap on whenever he wants and can do so with impunity from his Masters. But I also recognize that Musharraf is a leader of Pakistan and not of India.

Amit

``billions in transit fees`` and ``golf at gulmarg`` were always an options for last 57 years - those options were always there. The trade opportunities between the nations was always sizeable and India has been dangling those carrots since ages.

But pakis never took - They continued jihad. If money was a consideration, pakis would never have started jihad on India in the first place. And if 911 wouldn`t have happened - jihad would have continued with full force even today - ``billions in transit fees`` notwithstanding.

They dumped taliban because Uncle Sam held gun to their head - not because Uncle sam promised money [that came later]. In fact Uncle sam was offering money long before that - to get pakis away from supporting taliban. But pakis never took ....... So what makes you so convinced that paki elite knows its ``self-interest``? ...... Or this the usual wist-ful day-dream known to affect large chunk of indian ``intelligentsia``?

Moreover - Mushy may be pliant under threat of violence, that doesn`t mean entire paki establishment is. Over the years, Paki army has been jihadized to its core - so who knows what is simmering under the surface?

Re: # 50

Romair,

excellent post, with some very fine analysis. i was impressed. you stated at the end that musharraf has not attacked the feudals, but at the same time has not joined them either. how do you see the induction of people like the chaudhry`s of gurjat and the sheikh rashids? are they not large landowners who have benefited from being `lotas`? that to me is enough of an unholy alliance. as COAS, and someone to make such bold promises in 1999, he has done little to change the political structure of pakistan. you covered that in one of the earlier posts, could you expound on that a little further? thanks.