Am I Insane?

Hamidm:

Itna Emma Emma Kurnae Kee Bajae` why don`t you go and talk to her hubby? I think she may need someone outside of her family and friends who can look into this issue in an objective manner and straighten the thorn. You can probably join her hubby on a trip to Amsterdam and see what the hell is that Jawad guy up to? Probably, you can get him drunk and get to the bottom of this dilemma. How`s that for something on the lines of practicality? Let`s take Chowk to the next step of evolution :)

Happy Thinking!!!

(*~*)

Emma,

I have to say only the wearer knows where the shoe pinches. Only you can decide what you have to do and what needs to be done. Education like a law degree gives insight, reasoning and logical thinking ability and you need to use it honey.
Try to logically and critically asess the situation and then make whatever decision you want to make.
I think this post is an attempt to understand or gain different perspective but I have to tell you from experience, only you know what needs to be done with your life , no one else.

Dear Emma,

......... i am sorry, but it seems that from here on out your troubles will be overshadowed by the debate which will take off in three directions :

1. feminism - and the fact that most men are insensitive neanderthals
2. the place of women in islam - which is somewhere between a maggot and a slug
3. psychobabbel - led by va hospital and medicare shrinks

.......... as i had suggested earlier, you would have been better of writing to dear abby ............

Ref Romair #58

[... I think one should be cautious of quickly jumping to or suiggesting divorce. Since, it is quite hard to undo a divorce.....specifically within a Muslim marriage.........]

It is not all that hard to undo an Islamic divorce. From what I have read, the woman needs to marry another person, have that marriage consummated, get divorced from that husband, and she is then free to marry her first husband. I read somewhere here on Chowk how a mother-in-law, upon reconciliation between her son and divorced daughter-in-law, had her gardener marry the girl, ensured that the gardener consummated the marriage, had him divorce the girl, and then had her son marry his ex-wife again.

So, the procedure seems to be simple: Emma flies off to Pakistan; her husband Jawad sends her an SMS on her cellphone stating ``Talaq, talaq, talaq``; Emma marries the first man off the street (or the club if she wants a person with a higher socio-economic standing) and goes into a hotel room with him (her choice whether it is a five-star hotel or the local No-Tell Motel) and gets laid; has her new-found husband tell her ``talaq, talaq, talaq``; and flies back to the US and has a local mullah officiate at a nikkah with Jawad.

I am NOT insensitive to poor Emma`s plight but YOUR comment about how hard it is to undo a Muslim divorce is just plain wrong as I have outlined the process for doing it.

[Where is Shankar when he is needed. He seems to show up everywhere he is not needed. And never shows up where he could be of some use...............]

The Headshrinker will claim he is driving his Jaguar around on Altamont Street in Bombay and trying to counsel his old classmates the Ambanis now that Reliance Telecom has been found to be liable for hundreds of crores of rupees for illegally routing international calls as local calls on India`s BSNL network. THAT kind of ruling is certainly more traumatic than a simple case of spousal abuse and would take precedence in the Headshrinker`s busy practice.

We are all entitled to respect from our partners. Yes, you may have made mistakes in your choices, but that`s no reason for you to be punished for the rest of your life. Good luck with whatever you decide, but the worst you can do is nothing at all.

I don`t think you are insane. However, I question the sanity of some of the interactions you have received! I find it interesting that many of the presumably Pakistani folks who have responded to your post have chosen a triage approach, if you will, to your situation. Instead of offering constructive comments or advice, they choose to point out that there are people worse off than you in the world.

That is hardly fair.

My cultural awareness of Pakistani-Muslim family values is somewhat limited. That said, it is my opinion that if your husband wants a divorce, he should have to file it himself.

You mentioned your husband`s business trips to Amsterdam, casino memberships, etc.. All of these are indicators that he has a lifestyle that condones sexual promiscuity. I think 8 months of abstinence is a good thing in your case. Now that sufficient time has passed since you have been to bed with him, you can go forward and get an HIV test and a full battery of STD tests and have faith in the results.

You deserve better.

Good luck.

Re: # 59

........... from the peanut gallery

wow!.... now we are getting somewhere ......

p.s. i showed this letter to mrs hamidm and she thinks it is a hoax......... and who am i to question her woman`s intuition ........ mrs hamidm does not have any use for the internet and the cell phone and the other day expressed great surprise at the news that the soviet union had fallen apart, but she knows people ................ ``no self-respecting educated modern woman would put up with crap like this unless she is a nutcase - there is something fishy about ms. emma whatshername ........it is not as if she is being threatened and abused by her husband ...............and what are you doing reading crap like this - i thought you were doing research on kitchenaid appliances``, she admonished with a crinkle of that botox-rejuvnated nose ............ to add insult to injury, my daughter chimed in with, ``abu, pakistani men are such loosers, but the women deserve them``.............. and then they took off to the mall to buy yet more shoes leaving me to ponder emma`s dilemma .................

Madame Emma Nisa:

With due respect, your case is closed. No more discussions on those lines. I am sure you must have appreciated some points and kicked out others. Your board will be taken over now.

Ta Ta...

Since bro` Hamidm referred to this story, therefore I decided to post it here. I love this guy`s writings. It`s men like him that make me ``danwa` dol/double minded`` on my singlehood stance.

When Rapists Walk Free
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF

Published: March 5, 2005
One of the gutsiest people on earth is Mukhtaran Bibi. And after this week, she`ll need
that courage just to survive.

Mukhtaran, a tall, slim young woman who never attended school as a child, lives in a poor
and remote village in the Punjab area of Pakistan. As part of a village dispute in 2002,
a tribal council decided to punish her family by sentencing her to be gang-raped. She
begged and cried, but four of her neighbors immediately stripped her and carried out the
sentence. Then her tormenters made her walk home naked while her father tried to
shield her from the eyes of 300 villagers. Mukhtaran was meant to be so shamed that she
would commit suicide. But in a society where women are supposed to be soft and helpless,
she proved indescribably tough, and she found the courage to live. She demanded the
prosecution of her attackers, and six were sent to death row.She received $8,300 in compensation and used it to start two schools in the village, one for boys and one for girls, because she feels that education is the best way to change attitudes like those that led to the attack on her. Illiterate herself, she then enrolled in her own elementary school.

I visited Mukhtaran in her village in September and wrote a column about her. Readers
responded with an avalanche of mail, including 1,300 donations for Mukhtaran totaling
$133,000. The money arrived just in time, for Mukhtaran`s schools had run out of funds. She had sold her family`s cow to keep them open because she believes so passionately in the redemptive power of education. Now that cash from readers has put the schools on a sound financial footing again. And Mercy Corps, a first-rate American aid group already active in Pakistan, has agreed to assist Mukhtaran in spending the money wisely. The next step will be to start an ambulance service for the area so sick or injured villagers can get to a hospital.

Down the road, Mukhtaran says, she will try to start her own aid group to battle honor
killings. And even though she lives in a remote village without electricity, she has
galvanized her supporters to launch a Web site: www.mukhtarmai.com. (Although her legal
name is Mukhtaran Bibi, she is known in the Pakistani press by a variant, Mukhtar Mai).
Until two days ago, she was thriving. Then - disaster.

A Pakistani court overturned the death sentences of all six men convicted in the attack
on her and ordered five of them freed. They are her neighbors and will be living
alongside her. Mukhtaran was in the courthouse and collapsed in tears, fearful of the
risk this brings to her family.

``Yes, there is danger,`` she said by telephone afterward. ``We are afraid for our lives,
but we will face whatever fate brings for us.``

Mukhtaran, not the kind of woman to squander money on herself by flying, even when she
has access to $133,000, took an exhausting 12-hour bus ride to Islamabad yesterday to
appeal to the Supreme Court. Mercy Corps will help keep her in a safe location, and those
donations from readers may keep her alive for the time being. But for the long term,
Mukhtaran has always said she wants to stay in her village, whatever the risk, because
that`s where she can make the most difference.

I had planned to be in Pakistan this week to write a follow-up column about Mukhtaran.
But after a month`s wait, the Pakistani government has refused to give me a visa,
presumably out of fear that I would write more about Pakistani nuclear peddling. (Hmm, a
good idea. ...) Mukhtaran`s life illuminates what will be the central moral challenge of this century, the brutality that is the lot of so many women and girls in poor countries. For starters, because of inattention to maternal health, a woman dies in childbirth in the developing world every minute.

In Pakistan, if a woman reports a rape, four Muslim men must generally act as witnesses
before she can prove her case. Otherwise, she risks being charged with fornication or
adultery - and suffering a public whipping and long imprisonment. Mukhtaran is a hero. She suffered what in her society was the most extreme shame imaginable - and emerged as a symbol of virtue. She has taken a sordid story of perennial poverty, gang rape and judicial brutality and inspired us with her faith in the power of education - and her hope.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/05/opinion/05kristof.html
E-mail: nicholas@nytimes.com

Re: # 55

Ana,

I`m praying Karma doesnt pass Depends Sahib by but bestows him his rightful place....amoebadom....if one fails to suceed, one must try try again! ;)

Emma,

Welcome to Chowk. Your piece brings up many good points.

There are male interactors who will try to point out that there are women who suffer more than you. These are the same men who have not professed lifting a single finger to ameliorate the eco/pol/soc/cult factors that lead to the exploitation of women. Then there are men who will tell you to stop being so ``selfish`` because having expectations of equality, mutuality and respect as agreed on b/n both partners is ``class`` discrimination. To the latter I will point out that many of us were/are raised by men coming from working class backgrounds who are the exemplar of support and love-and are feminists.

Wanting and having a life and a partner who works with you towards respect, love and mutuality is a worthy goal-one that every human being is entitled to. Dont let anyone tell you otherwise. Get counseling alone if your spouse wont come with you. Hopefully he will come around. As others have suggested, the answers will come from you and your spouse.

Good luck and all the best.

Subedar

Little Beta Emma, what I wonder is …

Before your in-laws became your susral they had already been in-laws of your brother and your relatives for some years. Which means, neither Jawad nor his family were any stranger to you and your family.
You knew or at least supposed to know the level of sophistication, intellectual standard, monetary affluence, family values, everything of your susral walas along with the number of course meals they are used to.
Then why did you approve such a “backward “ husband and family to start with?

I mean it was not at all a blind date, you opted all this voluntarily and gladly because … according to my expert opinion … in some aspects you were slightly superior to them and intentionally or unconsciously thought that you could keep them under your high heels.

Jawad initial display of satisfaction inflated your head even further.

Moreover you have a penchant to exploit your genitals as reward-penalty mechanism … to use sex as a whip and candy.

But, now after a while, Jawad has lost interest in you … primarily because of your high nose … you have lost your charm and sheen for him. He has started writing you on his left ball and discovered that life could be lived rather enjoyed even without having you around. Something you hadn’t expected at all and have extreme difficulties to digest … you have got a sort of emotional constipation.

You would have no problem dissolving this marriage had it been your initiative. Now you feel rejected by the one who should have considered himself lucky to have you. Jawad has turned the table on you.

You don’t want to leave, because it would mean defeat from someone who is in your weird world inferior to you, but you want to continue only on your own conditions. Jawad don’t offer you that. You are ambivalent. No desperate. Try to avenge, teach them a lesson … don’t know how to do … out of that frustration came this lousy piece.

And Emma beta, it is only meant to serve the following purposes …
1. To demonstrate to your hubby and his family that you are capable enough to strip them naked … on internet … wow
2. Try to show them the huge difference in the leagues you two belong to individually as well as family wise … wow … Jawad and his parents should “realize” what special pearl they have got
3. To convey the message that their daughter will be in trouble had they not “mend” their ways

I am pretty doubtful if it will help.

So what should you do?
Should I be honest … my sincere most advice to you would be … come down to earth … give respect first before demanding respect … don’t underestimate people … try to be insaan … don’t play over smart …

A bit of humility, a little bit modesty … and everything will be fine.
You don’t seem to be totally without brain … though I am not sure about the size and quality of heart … have some cardiac surgery, some emotional transplantation and everything will be alright.

I think it is a bit dangerous to play psychiatrist on sensitive issues like this. Everyone is going to let out their own internal feelings, joys and frustrations and advise the person. I am not even sure if it is a good idea to seek advice in this manner.......

Those who have viewed or been in good marriages, will probably say, ``give it one more chance.`` Those who have viewed or been in abusive marriages, might say, ``get out immediately.`` Those who have not been married, at all, might say, ``if the person isn`t your ideal, find someone else.``

It seems like the writer can probably get a divorce anytime she wants. She has suggested that her husband keeps saying this to her, himself. It doesn`t seem like she is being physically harmed. She seems confused and under emotional stress. In such a situation, I think one should be cautious of quickly jumping to or suiggesting divorce. Since, it is quite hard to undo a divorce.....specifically within a Muslim marriage.........

At the very least, people advising her to, ``leave,`` should perhaps take it easy, and suggest to her to visit a professional psychiatrist first, and get some professional advice. Preferably a desi one, who can understand the cultural issues involved............

Where is Shankar when he is needed. He seems to show up everywhere he is not needed. And never shows up where he could be of some use...............

Dear Emma,

....... i don`t mean to belittle your pain and suffering, but in today`s nytimes kristoff writes about the very real tragedy of women in pakistan............. maybe you can draw some consolation and inspiration from the trials and tribulations of mukhtaran bibi :


``In Pakistan, if a woman reports a rape, four Muslim men must generally act as witnesses before she can prove her case. Otherwise, she risks being charged with fornication or adultery - and suffering a public whipping and long imprisonment.

Mukhtaran is a hero. She suffered what in her society was the most extreme shame imaginable - and emerged as a symbol of virtue. She has taken a sordid story of perennial poverty, gang rape and judicial brutality and inspired us with her faith in the power of education - and her hope. ``

``http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/05/opinion/05kristof.html?hp

............ compared to mukhtaran bibi`s ordeal, your problem seems trivial, doesn`t it ? ........... i am sure with folks like romair, malik and echo offering you advice you will be just fine :-)

I read your article - and understand only a little of the emotional turmoil you must feel inside you. Perhaps once there was love in your husbands heart for you but you deserve to be loved for your spirit and truth. I do not think he has given the person you are justice.

It does take two to tango but his callous wish to only leave - well, I think you should be strong and look beyond the need to be with someone - although it may seem to you as though you `need` anothers strength to bolster you the TRUTH is you need NO ONE but you and your faith.

Sing the song that is in your heart and you will find that you communicate to the universe and not just some man who has not yet awakened his soul and is busy living only for the material.

Have faith in children, in the beauty that surrounds you, in yourself. Dont wait - seize life by the throat and live it! :)

and who knows - in the process you may `discover` a real PCharming!

Best of luck.

bas yehi baaqi tha: the ignorant men of chowk.

this board will now take a plunge into the gluteus maximus of hateful people such as echoboom who will pronounce from there no one else but himself to be the standard-bearer of chowk and pak sar zameen.

these mentalities are what anyone with a modicum of sanity should keep away from. he speaks of bile, when it is there for everyone to see that his bile doesn`t just drip. . .it pours. . .and its toxicity follows from board to board. such a miserable life. the poster-child for what hate can do to a person. instant karma might even pass him by.

malik99: 49

And it certainly IS a Jerry-springer FrontPage now for sure. Just see how the munaafique & muurtids are proving their `maaadernity` & `free-thoughtingness`.

As I `ve always maintained the Ba Ba Blacksheep have proven to be the billi-kaa-goos of Pakistan. Never achieved anything worthwhile in their miserable life.

Whenever ``women`` , ``Islam`` or ``muslim`` article appear here it is smart to let the ``free-thought` and muunafiques & muurtids spleen their bile.

That is much more fun than ``replying``. It is turning into a show now.

Never in the history of mankind so many khisyaani bhillis have noached so few khambaas
with such speed and ferocity.