Intimacies Remapped

Dear Mr. Nambiar,
You have a nice narrative style. I would like to urge you to analyse the communal problem in India in its proper context i.e. analyse it with the past history of 1000 years, and not with the events of last 50 or 100 years. Has it ever occurred to anybody amongst the ``elite`` in India that the collective Hindu psyche has deep gashes and scars? When somebody like V.S. Naipaul points out these gashes and scars, he is branded as ``communal``. That`s the problem. Pakistanis and I suspect Muslims in general are clear in one respect: they did not simply coexist with the Hindus, they ``ruled`` Hindus for 700 years. There is no confusion in their mind about that.
I would like to see prominent Muslim religious and political leaders in India to come out and admit that a lot of wrongdoings took place during the Muslim period and they feel really ``sorry`` about it. But can they do it? I suspect not. The fundamental problem is that Islam is a confrontational proselytising faith. It does not recognise the validity of any other way of life. Islam can never be assimilated and Islam has failed to convert Hindusthan into ``Land of Islam`` in 1000 years whereas it took Islam around 100 years to convert the whole of Middle East and North Africa into ``Land of Islam``. Therefore I think that unless these are some dogmatic changes within Islam, this confrontation will carry on until one side is decisively defeated. What side are you on Mr. Nambiar?

harish,

there is so much here. . . i like the way you have described all your friends and their importance in the unfolding of this journey you are on, and the commonalities among you in the midst of communality.

look forward to reading more. . .perhaps then i can voice more thoughts, and not be so quick to judge what the proper context is here.

--ana

re: Harish Nambiar

This was a very insightful article. It offered a slice of a very unique perspective on India. Since the article was based on personal experiences, it did spotlight a very interesting topic; the nature of Indian perceptions about India itself.

Harish, I have question, which is more a point of clarification.

It seems that there is a very fine line between communalism and prejudice. It is a known fact that prejudice; religious, social or cultural, has existed in India for centuries and is as common as it is in the rest of the world. Communalism, in my understanding of the term, is when politics is infused into this equation and the problem becomes more pronounced.

Therefore, when you suggested an increase in communalism in India, you are simply reacting to the vocalization of an already existing problem of prejudice. Again, based on what I understood, Nehru`s brand of socialist secularism brushed many issues under the carpet and these issues were not allowed to be said aloud and recently, all these issues became a part of the public debate and re-surfaced into the Indian political discourse. It seems that Nehru`s secularism was based on the idea of denying the chacteristics of a Hindu majority and BJP`s vision of Hinduvta politics simply removed that restriction. Hence, there has been no tangible increase in communalism in India, but what has really happened is that there has been a more increased awareness of the prejudices, which already existed in the Indian society as a result of the majority reclaiming its dominant status in Indian politics.

If you are friends are taken as a barometer of Indian public opinion, which is a highly prolematic proposal in its own right, it would seem that people are not reacting to the politically correct secularism of Nehru, but are openly voicing their opinions on issues facing India and affecting Indians in particular.

Thus, the questions remain; was it your reaction, while listening to the conversations of your friends, which made you aware of this issue? I am sure, you might be aware of the problem, as a reporter, but you might not be aware or were not ready to accept the fact, with which ease the issue of ``communalism`` was discussed in a company, which you understood to be free of such prejudices?

Would that be fair question to ask?

Ciao

This has to be the best article on communal relations in India that I have come across on Chowk. I can see that many Indians are busy scratching their heads to discredit this author. JNU, P Secularist and what not! One response below shows the communal mindset that prevails in the educated and urban India. This poster wants apology from Muslims for the 700 years of rule in India. The apology is not beyond the realm of the reality but first the majority community needs to create conditions of peace, and harmony in the society for the other community to come forward. However, what the Majority community does? It first denies the basic human rights to minority and than forcibly wants apology. The majority community is holding a gun, keeping minority hostage, and threatening dire consequences to the minority to overcome its own deficiency in defending and NOT fighting for the freedom for 700 years. This article clearly and poignantly describes the communal conditions that are prevalent in India and as the events described in this article show, it is more than communalism. It is racial discrimination.

There was a time in the US when property owners were not willing to rent property out to the Blacks. It took years of struggle to change that mindset and now situation is better but there are still folks out there who, given an opportunity, would find a way to deny a rental property to blacks.
It is apparent that Muslims, Dalit and the other communities that don’t fit the mainstream Hindu religions tenets are not only denied basic human rights but also are racially discriminated.

“It has been three days now, of the Hindus killing Muslims allegedly as a reaction to the Godhra train burning incident,” I said.
“That’s okay. When the mians react, they’ll even the score in two days,” Suresh said. Mian was the local dialect for anybody from the Muslim community.”

The exchange above is brutal and shows the depth of deep-seated communalism in the Indian society. Killing of human either Muslims or Hindus is irrelevant for a common person. It is just a matter of “That’s okay.” If Hindus kill Muslims for three days, Muslims would kill Hindus for two days. Once the score is even both communities would go their marry way and starting looking forward to new sets of riots.

How the Indian society got to this level of spitefulness? Clearly, there are systematic and concentrated efforts undertaken by the organized communal parties such as the RSS, BJP, Sviv Sena, or the VHP and many more that are trying to raise the Hindu nationalism and they scapegoat minorities for cheap promotion of their hateful ideas.

Hindutva is an ideology of hate. This ideology has taken over the Indian Middleclass. It does not seem likely that the secular Indian institutions that are already weak or immature would survive the communal onslaught or barrage of false propaganda in India. The minorities in India must be ready for another round of hate that would come their way in the near future.

India seemingly fast polarising along communal lines. Cant argue with that!

Harish - this is brilliant!

I think a part of my admiration for this work comes from my realization that this would have been terribly hard for me to write. It`s never easy to capture people you love and are invested in and with whom you share yourself as simply and gently shaded as you have done here.

Reading this, I felt like you`ve told my story in yours. Thank you. I can`t wait for the next part.

Amrita.

Nambiar Sahib, Wah!
Beautifully written. I am speechless!

By the way, Nambiar Sahib! Are you related to Sonora Jha Nambiar!

bucaphelus, I think we need to first understand the contemporary situation there before knowing or getting into the 1000 years history of it.

Dear Mr. Nambiar:

I do have some comments on your article but will withhold them until I read your second (concluding?) part. (I am surprised that others seem to have already made up their minds on it.) However, based on what I have read so far, I consider it safe to make the following two statements: (1) although you are perhaps only setting the stage in Part 1, you seem to be taking an awfully long time with it and beating around the bush a lot (or is that an unconscious way to postpone the inevitable facing of (unpleasant?) realities as long as possible?) (2) I wish you had written this article earlier. I realize that the passage of time may allow one a better perspective etc., however, if one is trying to deal with a problem or disease, timeliness of the medicine is rather important (writing a journal paper on a disease may spark a lot of intellectual discourse but provide little succor to those who have already suffered.)

Thanks.
BeeJay (still on sabbatical)

Shambhu incident brought back memories of a similar incident we had in our group...

We used to celebrate TGIF, TGIS and other assorted festivals with free flowing alcohol and unlimited bakwas. In one such get-together, a guy from a friend`s hometown joined us. He was studying in Bangalore at that time. He has a Hindu pet name and does not sport a beard. Even look-wise he does not have the tell-tale signs of mians (don`t ask me what they are).

After a couple of large, the topic switched to defence. One of our pals is a major enthusiast of defence related issues and has three shelves filled with books on strategy, warfare, foreign policy and other such stuff. Somehow the topic veered to RAW and mians crept into the discussion. My friend loudly proclaimed that RAW does not induct mians coz they are not trustworthy. We tried to warn our friend that Pappu is not Pappu, but alas! Pappu didn`t agree to his proclamation. Drinks and UP, Bihar background made it worse and they switched to `Hindi` to put across their point . Ultimately, Pappu threw up his hands in despair and fired the Brahmastra - his uncle is in RAW. The truth took some time to sink in, and then our defence kid went ashen faced. Even today, he gets embarrassed when we mention the incident to him. He blames it on us saying we should have warned him; Baccardi has nothing to do with it.

``I would like to see prominent Muslim religious and political leaders in India to come out and admit that a lot of wrongdoings took place during the Muslim period and they feel really ``sorry`` about it. But can they do it? I suspect not...``

That is rubbish!!! going by this logic I would first ask the Hindu first borns to atone for the sins of their forefathers when they used to put molten lead in the ears of the Shudras.....or atone for all those tribal kingdoms that were razed and their people massacred by the Kshatriya kings....I would like all the Brahmins to atone for the sin of enslaving the shudras in their households.....or of Vaishnavas for killing the Shaivas vice versa....or the Hindu kings who vanquished the Buddhists and ensured that Buddhism is wiped out from India forever......

This is utter nonsense.....it is time people forget the dark ages of Indian past and talk about Indian democracy in 2005!!!

Re: # 4

``This poster wants apology from Muslims for the 700 years of rule in India. The apology is not beyond the realm of the reality but first the majority community needs to create conditions of peace, and harmony in the society for the other community to come forward.``

Only a fandu Pakistani can talk about IM-s in the year 2005 apologizing for the sins of those who used Islam for political purposes in the dark ages !!!

Re: # 11

Goofy Ballu :-)

`First-borne` is incorrect, the correct term is `twice-born` or `dwija`. The second birth is the `sacred thread` ceremony.

Ballu Khan:

Hit the nail on the head as usual. Its not Fandu Pakis, we have enough idiots on our side who need to have sense slapped in to their heads.

HP the Islamic Fanatic

Mahesh G`s response to tahmed on the Islamic Science thread:

[[#274 by MaheshG

let me get this straight.

1. Pakistani army kills more than a million bengalis in Bangladesh whereas Bengalis are not attacked in Pakistan. Indian mobs kill 3000 Muslims in Gujarat where as Muslims in the rest of India are not affected. Conclusion: Pakistan is better.

2. Some Pakistani chowkies advocate jihad on Indian Hindus and some Indian chowkies rationalize Gujarat. Conclusion: Pakistan is better.

3. Pakistan wipes out its minorities, Indian minorities grow in number. Conclusion: Pakistan is better.

4. Some Pakistani chowkies condemn army action in Bangladesh while sitting in the US, some Indian chowkies condemn Modi`s govt in Gujarat while sitting in the US. Conclusion: Pakistan is better.

If I have got the flow of your argument, let me know]]

Let us know you snivelling shivering twat.

Whatever the nature of the prejudices, has the walk down right-wing Fascist Lane been reversed with the new government in place? Or do you feel more needs to be ‘unearthed’ before the ‘emotional thirst’ of historical ‘rectification’ is complete?

I think fundos are really not the source of the problem. They are merely a spark, the gruesome physical display of our own gruesome internal prejudices we allow to exist and bow to.

#11 Ballukhan

That is rubbish!!! going by this logic I would first ask the Hindu first borns to atone for the sins of their forefathers when they used to put molten lead in the ears of the Shudras.....or atone for all those tribal kingdoms that were razed and their people massacred by the Kshatriya kings....I would like all the Brahmins to atone for the sin of enslaving the shudras in their households.....or of Vaishnavas for killing the Shaivas vice versa....or ......

as a person born in a ``upper caste`` hindu family, i would like to apologize for the inhuman treatment my forefathers would have committed against the ``harijan`` people. I ask for their forgiveness (``harijan``) and I am shameful and embarrassed by their (my forefathers) deeds.
This is not just to meet your condition but I truly believe that doing so would be the first step towards accepting the facts and preventing it from happening again. Thats the reason young Germans are taught about Nazi concentration camps.


``the Hindu kings who vanquished the Buddhists and ensured that Buddhism is wiped out from India forever``
there were a few such kings which did that, but not to the extent that it ``wiped`` out Buddhism from india. How come Jainism continued to stay. Also, what happened to Buddhists in Afghanistan, central asia areas. Infact, I have come across many indian muslims who subscribe to this thinking, that hindu kings killed all the buddhists in india.

Look - No doubt everybody here is gonna bad-mouth Modi and Gujarat....that is understandable given the Gujarat riots where 2000-3000 muslims were massacred and scores of muslim women raped. But then thats one part of the picture.

What people have failed to notice or feigned ignorance is how Modi has completely and singlehandedly transformed Gujarat`s economy and made Gujarat a truely modern state.

Gujarat is more like China than India in terms of economic growth. Gujarat economy grows at an extraordinary pace of 10% plus , while Indian economy grows at 7% plus.Some of the biggest industries in India are situated in Gujarat. Gujarat accounts for 5% of India`s population , but over 20% of the exports. Gujarat ranks among highest as far as Indian states are concerned in terms of literacy , per capita and hdi. Poverty in Gujarat is minimal...barely 5-8% of the population.

Modi has shown himself to be the most reformist politician in Indian history. He has introduced and executed wide range of administrative and economic reforms. His working is like that of a CEO of a Fortune 500 rather than that of a politician. He has de-bureaucratised and de-politicised Gujarat and done away with corruption and the red-tape. While most big states in India like Maharashtra , Andhra , Punjab etc. are revenue deficit states - Gujarat is by far revenue surplus.There is nobody in the world who is as pro-globalisation and pro-liberalisation as Modi is.Thanks to Modi`s tireless efforts , investments are flowing into Gujarat in billions of $ virtually every day - mostly from foreign investors.

The significance of Gujarat is it is more like a part of China than India given the sort of industries , investment friendly administration and excellent infrastructure that Gujarat has. If South India is all about IT , Gujarat is all about China-style gung-ho manufacturing.

So the choice is for Indians to make. How would they like to view Modi ? As India`s most visionary reformer , as somebody has transformed sleepy Gujarat into India`s industrially and financially most dynamic state with little or no corruption , or as one who doesn`t like the paki-lovers too much..

The people of Gujarat sure have announced their verdict.

harish:

nice to see this here...a pleasure to read it again...look forward to reading all of it here in time...will comment later after a few more instalments...hoping that the knee-jerker`s immediate reactions would have dissipated by that time

rgds

t

Harish,

Am waiting for the next part. It is amazing how similar my childhood experiences, growing up in Hyderabad among multi-ethnic, multi-religious and multi-lingual friends, are to the ones related in this article. And how ridiculous our reaction then to the Babri Masjid demolition seems now. As 7th grade students, we were just glad to get a whole week off as curfew was imposed in the city. My parents were worried sick and we couldnt understand why.

On a different note you write:

``Chachi, the wife of the man whose husband sold cigarettes and beedis, would give us the sweets made on Eid.``

The circumventing, unnecessarily complex language and sentence structure you used throughout the article was getting to me, but that sentence put me off for a while. You are a journalist, come on, you can do better.

regards,

Kabuli

Quite th amateurish piece of writing. Too much time wasted in description and background. I do hope the next pice is better.

Secondly a clarification, was it actually the muslim mob which burnt the train or was it some cooking incident inside the train. Do mention what has happened in the case in court.

HP #4,
I have to say that you don`t really know India. Like in the Gujarat riots most of the participants came from the lower classes including dalits. In many rural places dalits are the ones who often have more animosity towards muslims than others. The violence against Sikhs was a one-time exception. Christians have never been a target of major riots anywhere, even in states where their population is almost the same as of Hindus. That said, I am not condoning communalism. Communalism unfortunately exists, but it is far more complicated than the picture you have in mind.

Re: # 4
``Hindutva is an ideology of hate. ``

I wonder what the Hindutva loving chowkies think of that? Please do comment!

I enjoyed reading your peice but have to say your writing tends to get a little wordy at times. Anyhow i am looking forward to the reading next part.

Re: # 19


``Modi has completely and singlehandedly transformed Gujarat`s economy and made Gujarat a truely modern state``
``Thanks to Modi`s tireless efforts , investments are flowing into Gujarat in billions of $ virtually every day - mostly from foreign investors. ``
``As India`s most visionary reformer , as somebody has transformed sleepy Gujarat into India`s industrially and financially most dynamic state ``

Gujarat is among those indian states who are doing much better in comparison to other states. But I don`t think all the credit should go to Modi. Modi has been CM only for 7-8 years now. Gujarat has been doing good for much more than that. There are many industries like chemical, grounnut oil, textiles, diamond, petrochemicals, pharmaceutical, ..... which have built a strong economy in that state. The facts that favor Modi are that he has preferred better economics rather than populism (eg. not bowing to the farmers demand), sound economic decisions (investing in oil-exploration and finding oil rich areas). But it wouldn`t be a justice to Gujarat and its hardworking economy savy people, to say that it was just a backwater before Modi came. In addition, I heard all that india could attract last year was 4 billion dollars as FDI, so how come Gujarat got billion $ FDI in a day? Nevertheless, Modi has provided good leadership in making Gujarat more prosperous and investor friendly. Some one made a remark that if Modi had not been a pracharak cum politician he would been a successful bussinessman.

I just heard that ``small hotels association in america`` are inviting Modi as a guest speaker, several muslim org (group against genocide) are lobbying to ban him from entering u.s.

Re: # 24

I don`t think so, only muslims/psedo-secularists/commies regard that. No other community feels threatened by it. Hindutva still has its flaws though, it has not yet succeeded in demolishing the caste barriers within hinduism.

I liked the article - it was an honest effort from the writer and can only be applauded. But I don`t think this statement of his stands true to facts >>

``fallout of that horrific incident was that an entire state erupted into a revenge- killing spree that would shame India, and severely damage the country’s new found pace of economic development``

That is untrue. The hindu-muslim riots of Gujarat happened in the year 2002. Since then Indian economy has registered its best growth rates - including a high of 8.4% for the year 2003.

It is a self-serving myth propagated by the self-appointed conscience keepers of the society or the self-proclaimed `secularists` that the Gujarat riots affected the Gujarat economy and scared the foreign investor from India. But the opposite is true.Gujarat is booming. Forex reserves to India reached $135 billion recently. So things look good.

Investment is dictated by economic policies , infrastructure and quality/cost/quatity of labor. Muslims may no longer be safe in Gujarat , but investors get a huge return for their money. And thats good enough for them.

Netizen ,

India`s forex reserves are worth $135 billion.

As far as FDI is concerned , this might interest you ,

---

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1020718.cms


``The most popular fable of the day is the race between the elephant and the dragon. The lumbering pachyderm is believed to stand no chance against the Middle Kingdom. Not so any more — such are the respective strengths and failings that in broad welfare terms they nullify each other. India is set to attract record foreign direct investment, narrowly defined, of $15 billion this fiscal, at least thrice the annual flows in post-reform years. Our FII flows are close to $10 billion, and with remittances set to cross $20 billion, our total foreign investment flows in 2004-05, defined in Chinese terms, will end up at about $50 billion. This is pretty close to China`s $60 billion inflows, whereas till only the other day our FDI flows seemed a fraction of China`s...``

---

Re: # 27

only muslims/psedo-secularists/commies regard that. No other community feels threatened by it.

So is it a threat to ``muslims/psedo-secularists/commies``; thats quite a number of ppl to be threatened isnt it?

Re: # 30
Different people are threatened for different reasons.

Hindutvas clash with Muslims on several issues. They are of the opinion that Muslims have been appeased by the other parties and should not be given any favors. Their constant refrain is Shah Bano case where the gov. of the day overturned Supreme Court verdict. Also, the Haj subsidies. When even some Islamic states don`t provide subsidies to the Muslims why should GoI do that. To do a balancing act , the gov has now started supporting hindu pilgrimage too. Other issues are Uniform civil code, where H want one person, one law. But the muslims are adamant, they want to keep their personal laws. Then the contentious issues of Babri Masjid, the H parties ``allege`` that the masjid was built on the birth place of their god Ram, for them it is equivalent to Mecca, but the muslims give a damn about it. Similarly, throughout the history of Mualim rule there have been cases where masjids have been built on/near prominent hindu temples, which they consider as a symbol of muslim dominance over hindus. And want to ``correct`` the historical injustice. Distrust among muslims has just widened the gap. Muslim demand for their own homeland didn`t help much eg Pakistan and Kashmir. H regard india as a mother whereas they think for muslims allah is all that matters. Hence you see all kinds of friction.

Regarding the psedo-secularist and commies, its because of vote-bank politics. Muslims can alter the election results if they vote en-block. Commies are lackeys of Mao, Lenin, Marx. A current union minister(was a communist then) went on collecting funds for China during Indo-China conflict in 62. Commies believe in Utopia, not reality. THe current leadership of West Bengal came from Bangladesh during hindu-muslim riots. Yet they think according to Marx there can only be class struggle not religious.

Why should Hindutva be defended all the time? Pakistan and other Muslim countries being ``Islamic`` is not debated; it is a given. Then why should Hindutva be such a hard concept to sell? I vivdly remember something very peculiar: when the Hindutva movement was gathering momentum in the late 80s-early 90s, Shabana Azmi had said ``nowadays even young people are saying ``Garv Se Kahon Hum Hindu Hain````. As if there is something inherently wrong in being proud of one`s heritage. Nobody asks if Muslims are proud of their background. It is again a given. Then why should Hindus have to be apologetic?
Somebody mentioned ``denying basic human rights`` to minorities and dalits. That`s plain bull. Under Indian law, every citizen has equal rights. As a matter of fact, it can be argued that minorities enjoy more rights in certain sense. Yes, there are societal prejudices but that acts both ways. On the other hand, the second class citizenship of non-Muslims in Islamic countries is official. Nothing is left for imagination. This is what I like about Islam. There is no room for confusion. Everything has been clearly spelt out.
Anyways, people who consider Prithviraj Chauhan, Rana Pratap, Shivaji Maharaj, Maharaja Ranjit Singh as their heroes have nothing to fear from Hindutva. However, people who either associate with or rationalise the invasions of Bin-Qasim, Mahmud, Ghauri, Babar, Akbar and Aurangzeb have plenty to worry about from the Hindutva movement.

Another myth that needs to be debunked is that Middle/Lower Caste Hindus share a ommon cause with Muslims against the Upper Castes. Anybody familiar with North India know that Middle Caste Yadavs, Kurmis, Jatts (Jatts in India being mostly Hindu/Sikh) etc are the worst nightmares of Muslims in India. It is another matter that these middle castes usually do not vote for BJP.
There is one exception though: Gujrat.

Ballukhan`s very right in his post that nobody this day can be held guilty for events which happened centuries ago. We should stop considering all muslims to be the fifth columnists for Pakistan. By doing that we could end up driving even the sane and sensible people who are the majority towards the insane ones.

lest anyone has forgotten, the title of this piece is intimacies remapped. harish is talking about a journey, a journey along with his childhood intimates -- his friends. the arguments that are going on over here in my humble opinion are those that he will come to question in time as well. and he may agree with some of you, and disagree with some of you.

as some of us have already indicated, we can wait for the remaining installments to see this more fleshed out. . . and these arguments are not completely outside the scope of this article, but certain interactors want to place the cart before the horse so to speak. harking back to a past and holding various communities guilty is what contributes to a communal atmosphere, the fervor and desire to return to what was a glorious past. i don`t know that harish is necessarily unaware of history or politics. this is a personal recollection on his part. and one that i`m hoping he`ll continue before we jump to all the knee-jerk conclusions some of us appear to be jumping to.

“NEW DELHI: Former Indian President K R Narayanan has said that the 2002 communal violence in Gujarat, which led to carnage of Muslim, was the outcome of a ‘conspiracy’ between the BJP-led government at the Centre and the State.
In an interview in Kerala with Malayalam magazine ‘Manava Samskriti’, the former president said: ``Atal Bihari Vajapyee did not do anything positive and effective, while I had written him letters and had also talked to him directly. Observing that there was a ‘conspiracy’ behind the Gujarat riots, I asked for Army to be deployed to suppress the violence. Though the army was sent, but if they were given the powers to shoot at the perpetrators of violence, the recurrence of the incidents in Gujarat could have been avoided.``

Communalism is the focus of this article and Harish Nambiar has categorically stated that “India seemingly fast polarising along communal lines”
I think it is the understatement of the year. India is actually in the grips of communalism and no matter how much people here or Hindutva media attempt to trivialize the issue, it is not going away.

The former President of India has pretty much charged the former PM of India Atul Vajpai of “not doing anything positive and effective”. He has called it a conspiracy betwen the center and Gujarat state. Former President of India would not say something or even imply that the Former PM of India shied away from doing anything positive without having first hand information on what exactly took place in the Indian power corridors when Gujarat Massacre was in full swing.

I did not mention Modi nor has Harish. Those who defend him are acutely aware of his role and in their guilt come right forward to defend him when nobody has even mentioned him personally on this board. The Gujarat massacre was the direct result of Hindutva followers’ propaganda and lies. There will be more minority massacres in India because that is what Hindutva followers want.

Modi is just a representative of the Hindutva ideology. He is a member of RSS/BJP and many other communal parties’ alliance and these parties were in complete agreement that there was nothing wrong in Gujarat. In fact, most of them gleefully watched Hindu rioters killing and burning babies.

Modi alone was not responsible for the Gujarat riots. He was just following the diktat. He knew what the party wanted in situations like that and it was important for him and RSS/BJP alliance to see some Muslim die to strengthen their position in Hindu voters and especially in Hindu middleclass. RSS/VHP and other allies of the BJP like Shiv Sena have instigated and participated in minority killings before and every dead minority person is a feather in their crown.

“Gujarat as such has turned into a sort of Hindu Rajya in one state. The grass root and other mechanisms have been severely jolted. The process of Ghettoisation has gone up at unprecedented scale. The interference of Sangh combine at social and political level is immense. Any talk of freedom and democracy is futile. The activists of human rights have everything to fear in the state. The civic actions have become difficult.”

That is the real goal “Hindu Rajya”. The whole game is to turn India into a religious state and Gujarat was the test case. Modi was appointed Chief Minister for this specific purpose. This experiment and model will be repeated in many states before India is completely turned into a religious state.


#15 by AlephNull aka Blasphemer

“Let us know you snivelling shivering twat.”

Let me tell you!
People raised in filth very rarely are able to come out of it. You were raised in filth and that is where you will remain.

Re: # 32
here the thing - you just equated hinduism with hindutva. Shivaji, Rana Pratap etc were not hindutvavadis they were Hindus. that is why the hindu middle classes ``that have nothing in common with the muslim elite and are the nightmare of muslims`` do not vote for the BJP.

Thank you for a great narration, Harish.

Looking forward, and with a little bit of tongue in cheek for all those who understand, we are all largely but descendants of the same Shambu. Or, at least, we came from there. A smoke to that.

As for analysis of the past, which is where many of the interacts here seem to be heading, here is a short and sweet example of how it really might be, going forward, in India:- Yesterday, there were four of us first in a boat and then in a 4WD, tossing about in the choppy waters between Gateway and Uran, and then bouncing around the salt pans and marshes that lie beyond. Four of us, Hindu, Muslim, Sikh and Parsee. All 4 of us Bambaiyyaas, going back decades.

We then went for a meal at a Keralite Muslim biryani restaurant in Panvel, where the only vegetarian amongst us (for some personal manat) was the Muslim. No big deal, we slurped on meat and chomped on bone while he ate his veggie delights right next to us.

After that we floated around the new mall outside Vashi Station, Centre-1. Cliche, maybe, but plenty of halters walking along with hijabs, and everybody having a ``mall day out.``

Then we ended up at a no-name family restaurant and bar for a beer but had wine instead. Wine is, apparently, vegetarian enough. Behind the counter, on the cash register, sit together a very visible Hindu and a very visible Muslim, partners for generations it seems. Those from new Mumbai may recognise the place, or are there more around?

Somehow, we never got around to discussing religion throughout the day. And throughout the day, the album on the 4WD stereo was the soundtrack from Black Friday.

Hindutva Rag-a-tag and Fundoo Muslims seem to have their work cut out for them in places where rupee is the new religion.

Driving back, late at night, I got stuck in the midst of a huge traffic jam formed by two trailer trucks labouring uphill, racing each other at 3 and 4 kms per hour respectively to enter the narrow tunnel first, and then jack-knifing into each other spectacularly. For those who know this stretch, this causes overloaded trucks behind to also lose momentum and The brotherhood of truck drivers and cleaners and conductors and what have you were giving shoulder to resounding calls of Allah Akbar and Har Har Mahadev and Raj Karega Khalsa.

And then, the one-off tale of one Muslim not getting a flat on rent becomes the standard bearer.

interesting article..

---

From rediff.com.. by Col. Anil Athale

Rumours of an attack on a temple spread like wildfire. Ahmedabad city was put under curfew. Yet the violence did not stop. The local police were accused of showing anti-Muslim bias and were ineffective. After two days of unsuccessful attempts at stopping the violence, the city of Ahmedabad was handed over to the army.`

`Two trains were stopped, Muslims were pulled out and killed. The rioting had spread to Mehsana, Surat, Anand and Jamnagar and Rajkot, the birth place of Mahatma Gandhi. Even the Sabarmati ashram, established by Mahatma Gandhi, was not spared and was attacked by a rampaging mob. It was only after 10 days that the situation was finally brought under control. It was estimated that over 1,500 people were killed while thousands left their homes in panic and sought refuge in temporary camps.`

-- A report on the Gujarat riots, not in 2002, but in September 1969.

`We had begun to get reports of scattered violence shortly after we had watched on television the barbaric video tape of motorists being ripped out of their cars, hammered, pounded and chased by rock-throwing men on the ground. The image of a man being pulled from his truck by thugs still burned in my mind. My memory was seared by the vivid imprint of the motionless, beaten man lying on the ground, being kicked and brutalised.

`I was still filled with rage at the sight of one of the assailants picking up a large piece of cinder-block and throwing it at his apparently lifeless body, smashing him in the head. Then, after the savage beating, the attacker appeared to do a dance, raise his hands towards the helicopter overhead and flashed a victory sign.`

`As our helicopter circled over the city, we could see that fires were breaking out over a widespread area. The dark plumes of smoke were ominously spreading to different spots of the city. Firemen could not respond to many of these early fires because snipers were shooting at them. Later police escorts went in with the fire fighters to protect them from the snipers.`

-- Los Angeles, early evening of April 29, 1992. The riots, provoked by a video clipping of police brutality, lasted over a week.

The Gujarat riots of 1969 were far more serious than the 2002 riots. The death toll, as a proportion of population was far higher and the violence had spread to many parts of the state.

What the synopsis of two events shows is:

* Police brutality and prejudice are not uncommon during riots.

* People show great brutality during riots.

* In a tinder box-like situation, like the one in Ahmedabad in 1969 and in Los Angeles in 1992, all that is required to start violence is a trigger event.

* Serious riots have always needed Army/National Guard intervention to bring them under control.

* The Gujarat riots of 2002 were important as well as unique in a sense.

The country was at that time on the brink of war with Pakistan. On the earlier two occasions, 1965 as well as 1971, remarkable internal peace had prevailed.

In 1971, despite the well known fact that the Pakistan army had killed close to 300,000, mainly Hindus, in Bangladesh (a figure accepted by the official Hamidur Rehman commission as well -- Pakistan General Gul Hasan who was chief of the army at the time claims that over 600,000 were killed), there was no internal strife as all parties (including the much reviled RSS) were co-opted in keeping this secret.

Ninety percent of the nearly 1 crore (10 million) refugees that poured into India were also Hindus. But even this was successfully hidden from the public.

The Godhra incident and the Gujarat riots were the first instance when internal conflict erupted even during an external threat.

There have been many claimants to credit for avoiding war in the subcontinent in 2002, the year when for ten long months the Indian armed forces were poised on the Indo-Pak border.

Colin Powell, then the American secretary of state, has gone on record to claim that it was the efforts and influence of the United States that averted war in the sub-continent.

If the US is so influential with the Indian government, one is tempted to ask, then why did it not succeed in preventing the nuclear tests at Pokhran in May 1998?

American multinationals who outsource their work to the Bangalore-based IT industry claimed it was their threat to withdraw which forced Indian companies like Infosys and Wipro to lobby with the government in favour of peace and restraint.

While there is some truth in these assertions, it is likely it was the Godhra incident and the riots that followed in March 2002 that really saved Pakistan from being attacked by India.

Godhra (and its twin city of Dahod) is famous in the subcontinent as the birthplace of Aurangzeb, the fanatical Mughal emperor. It is also a well known trouble spot that has seen violent riots between Hindus and Muslims for over a hundred years. A large number of people of Godhra have links with people in violence-prone Karachi in Pakistan.

On February 27, 2002, when the Sabarmati Express arrived at Godhra railway station early in the morning, it carried the usual load of Hindus returning from Ayodhya, a Hindu pilgrimage centre.

These pilgrims travel in large groups. They often act rowdily and altercations with vendors is a common occurrence. In fact, most vendors are known to shut shop when such trains approach.

But February 27, 2002 was unusual.

No sooner had the train left the station, it was stopped by pulling the emergency chain, just a little distance away from the station. Here the train was surrounded by a mob of thousands that pelted stones at the passengers.

Apparently some people then entered bogie S-6, which had mainly women and children, by cutting the cloth partition between two bogies. They then poured petrol into the carriage and set it afire. 59 people, including women and children, were burnt alive.

The incident had all the hallmarks of a pre-planned attack. The movement of Hindu pilgrims by this train was a regular, routine affair, not a sudden provocation. Also, it is not easy to suddenly garner a mob of several thousand without warning. A fire engine that tried to reach the spot was denied access, indicating a certain degree of leadership and planning.

The question that remains is, why?

Gujarat then and now was ruled by a Hindu hardliner who faced a difficult election in a few months time. That he would make capital of this incident was a foregone conclusion.

In less than two days, the city of Ahmedabad erupted in an orgy of violence. The local police either played a partisan role or were woefully inadequate to deal with the rioters. The only option was to call in the army.

But where was the army? Unlike the earlier occasions when the army stationed in Ahmedabad could move in at an hour`s notice, this time it took more than two days. The troops earmarked for internal riot control duties were more than 600 km away, deployed on the border and ready for war.

To re-adjust the defences took time. The troops flown into Ahmedabad did not have transport and were unfamiliar with the geography of the city. It took them nearly three days to bring the situation under control.

Most of the killings and violence took place before the army was deployed. Sporadic arson and violence did continue, but the worst was over within a week.

In normal times, the army could have been deployed in a day.

For instance, army units in Delhi and Meerut (40 km away) were ready to move in within hours of the riots sparked off by the assassination of Indira Gandhi on December 31, 1984. But the then government deliberately delayed deploying it.

This was certainly not the case in 2002, when the delay was caused due to the logistical difficulties involved in redeploying troops from the border.

The brain behind the Godhra incident knew it would trigger riots, which in turn would force such a redeployment. In fact, an entire division (40,000 soldiers) had to be moved, while another division was kept on alert to move into other areas if necessary.


The effect on Operation Parakram

On an average, a division covers close to 50 to 75 km of border. The loss of close to two divisions obviously weakened the Indian threat of action against Pakistan.

`Indian forces were ready for raids into Pakistan`

Let us look at the sequence again.

59 people are burnt to death in a well-planned attack at Godhra.

The `secular` media and some political parties try to minimise the tragedy, with some going to the extent of blaming the victims.

The Gujarat government brings the charred bodies to Ahmedabad and makes every attempt to inflame religious passions. This combination of `secular` apathy and government exploitation creates a fertile atmosphere for mass hysteria and revenge killings.

With its 200-year-old history of animosities, the city of Ahmedabad erupts in an orgy of violence. The local police are either biased in favour of the rioters or woefully inadequate to deal with the situation.

Almost two army divisions are withdrawn from border, creating a gaping hole in the defences, weakening the threat of armed action against Pakistan.

It was only towards early May 2002 that the troops rejoined their comrades on the border. By then, the window of opportunity was shut, as the snows in Himalayas would melt, and a Chinese threat had to be factored into the planning.

On May 14, 2002, terrorists struck at Kaluchak in Jammu area. The gruesome attack targeted the wives and children of the soldiers. The sheer audacity of the act was to show to the world India`s `impotence`. The terrorists achieved their aim as thanks to the Gujarat riots, the army was not in a position to react.

In an interview to rediff.com, Major General Ashok Mehta (retd) said: `Then Kaluchak happened in May and a new D-Day was selected- June 15. On US prodding, General Musharraf made his May 27 speech reaffirming compliance (of Indian demands of curbing terrorist activities).`

The cost of a war that wasn`t

It seems clear that the attack on Parliament as well as the Kaluchak massacre were the handiwork of `freelance` terrorists, nurtured by Pakistan but not necessarily under its direct control. The aim of terrorists was very clear, provoke a war between India and Pakistan by hook or crook.

But the Godhra incident was a calculated act, organised and executed by Pakistan to save itself from an imminent Indian attack.

As an act sponsored by a State, with all its resources in forensic help, legal expertise and police inputs, it falls in the category of a perfect crime.

No enquiry commission will ever be able to trace the true culprits and solve the mystery of Godhra.

This analysis is based on military logic and understanding of a military mind and not on any insider information. To those who consider this presumptuous, I would cite just one example.

During the First Gulf War of 1991, there was intense speculation over how and from where the Americans launch their ground offensive.

I used to write a daily column for Loksatta during the first Gulf war.

Based on a simple map, knowledge of military history and reading of military mind, I had predicted a week before the actual event the exact pattern of attack.

The prediction was that the 82 and 101 Airborne Divisions would take Al Kurna and Al Nasariya with the Third Army launching an armoured thrust from the west to link up. The Americans would thus cut off the Republican Guard located to the east and south and be poised to drive into Baghdad should Saddam not surrender. I even published a map showing this plan.

In the event I was spot on.

``that is why the hindu middle classes ``that have nothing in common with the muslim elite and are the nightmare of muslims`` do not vote for the BJP.``

Brahmins cosntitute just 2-3% of the voting population. BJP led NDA received 40% of the votes in last election , although they lost. So if lower caste hindus hate BJP , if middle class hindus hate bjp , if dalits hate BJP - how come as many as 37% (probably 250-300 million) of the population that is non-brahmin ended up voting for BJP ?

Simply doesn`t make sense.

---

People who are trying to drive a wedge between upper caste hindus and lower caste hindus should remember this...

1. Modi is a lower caste hindu
2. Advani is a casteless sindhi
3. Bal Thackray is a maratha - meaning , a middle caste hindu.
4.Upper caste hindus never do the fighting in a riot. The lower caste guys do that.
5.Most of the killings of muslims in Gujarat were done by dalits.
6.Upper caste hindus or brahmins are numerically insignificant. Constiture just 2-3% of the population.

Hidutwa basically is an idealogy that seeks to unite hindus regardless of caste. So hindutwa seeks a casteless society. That is why most of the leaders of the hindutwa movement - Advani , Modi ,Bal Thackray , Uma Bharti - are non-brahmins.

If one does a survey of the RSS members - there are millions of them , one would find out that over 95% of them are actually lower caste hindus. Those who destroyed the babri masjid - the kar sevaks - were mostly lower caste hindus - who were encouraged and motivated by non-brahmin RSS leaders like Advani , Uma Bharthi, Sadhvi Rithambari , and hordes of lower caste sadhus or sages.....those who killed muslims in Gujarat and raped muslim women were dalits........Which is only natural because brahmins are timid by nature and the closest they come to fighting muslims is on yahoo chat.....brahmin parents would rather see their wards in convent schools than attend RSS shakhas......

If hinduism was dependant on upper caste hindus for survival , it wouldn`t exist today. Hinduism is flourishing because the lower caste hindus have taken charge.

For all its faults , the hindutwa movement has one virtue which must be appreciated. Hindutwa yearns for a casteless hindu society. It is true that hindutwa-vaadis hate muslims and want India to be a hindu nation , but they also want the elimination of the caste system.

Ana, HP, Amrita, ShoreSahib,

Thank you all, for the responses to my piece. There are several issues that have been pointed out by people here that hopefully will be tackled as this narrative unfolds.

No, I am not related to Sonora Jha Nambiar.


Feroz, and some others who have raised similar issues:

What you say is true; especially regarding Nehru`s vision versus the later dramatic polarisation of opinion owing to political harvesting of these differences. And, yes prejudices exist in real life. And they get voiced in day-to-day conversation between intimates, whether friends or family circles. It would be churlish of us to pick these symptoms as a sign of bad character of my town, or townspeople.

What I have written about is how very many relationships among diverse people is often just the freedom from judgement, and freedom to voice. Most people know it to be prejudices, and rarely voice it in unintimate circles and situations, unless you are ideologically unambiguous, as in already espouse a particular worldview that allows for, and explains, your judgements.

One of the reasons to bring out this conversation here is to give a peep into truths of beliefs and their manifestations in real life situations.

I am addressing a lot of the questions that have been raised so far, about historical perspective, social displacements, identity, etc. But the later installments should bring them out.

Replying to all seems next to impossible, but suffice it to say, almost all the questions raised have been dealt with, and like Ana said, partially, completely or tangentially. It is nobody`s case that my take is the final or even a judicious one.

That said, so far, what I am trying to underline was that the inspiration for a unification of minds of these two often estranged communities might still come from the social sphere; and their social experience of peace and trust. Like my friends here, they can voice things, which can seem extremely bigoted, and seriously repugnant morally to many people. But they all belong to a circle where they trust each other more than anybody outside that circle, who might want to convert them to some new kind of truth that militates or seeks to undermine their friendship.

Some who have read Ashish Nandy’s critique of Indian secularism might get the point I am trying to make.


HN

Rather long, Harish, and it`s not an easy read, but it is worth the effort. First of all, congratulations on your intellect moving you so many rungs up the ladder. i watched so many of my friends do that too. Your family must be proud.
You don`t have to come out one way or the other, because this is descriptive, not a judgment. The India I grew up in has changed, and that is both good and bad.

Re: # 40
Dear Avenger
I said in reply to someone else`s post that -

``here the thing - you just equated hinduism with hindutva. Shivaji, Rana Pratap etc were not hindutvavadis they were Hindus. that is why the hindu middle classes ``that have nothing in common with the muslim elite and are the nightmare of muslims`` do not vote for the BJP.``

You read that and to you an apprpriate response was to give me chapter and verse about caste politics. Very interesting.

Yrs,
Amrita.

Re: Harish # 42

Harish, first of all, thank you for a very thoughtful reply. My original post was a prompt to your ``motorcycle diary`` of travelling through India. Since this experience is based on your personal views, I cannot pass any judgements on it, because I never ``walked in your shoes`` and never saw what you did and never heard what you might have heard.

Personally, I have no objections to prejudices and towards people, who hold prejudiced views, because I chose to interpret the word in its lost sense; to pre-judge and to me, pre-judging means to have an opinion and whether it is right or wrong is a matter of debate, which in itself is nothing more than a glorified opinion. Everyone is prejudiced to an extent, because everyone has an opinion. I will be the first to admit that I have many faults, some which I am sharply aware of and some, which I am not aware. I find nothing wrong with prejudice, because what matters to me is not the idea of pre-judging someone or something, but having the capacity to learn from my shortcomings and modifying my views to correspond to my newly learned insights.

In a sense, what I was attempting to say and which I failed to say cogently, was that the admission of a prejudiced opinion is better than the denial of harboring a prejudiced opinion. We all go through a process of self-discovery and of coming to terms with our own sense of personal, and emotional worth. As we get older and not necessarily any wiser, we are more tolerant of our faults and more accepting of the flaws in our ideals. Just like an alcoholic, admission is invaribly the first towards recovery and the acceptance and out of this acceptance comes tolerance. This sense of tolerance is not the ability to tolerate another person, but the willingness to tolerate the differences between one`s own sense of expectations and limitations. Truth, in such a voyage of self-awareness, comes from being honest with one`s most cherished ideas and it is measured in the strenght of character, which has the moral virtue of accepting the proverbial reflection in the mirror, which challenges our own perception of our idealism.

In any such process, the acts of denial have to be understood clearly, because denial only weaves a web of insecurity, which needs further denials to sustain it. It is akin to asking, ``how can you be true to others, when you are not true to your own self?`` Being true to ``yourself`` means to understand the imperfections in the environment, in which one exists and to understand that particular environment better, is aways a good idea no matter how painful.

Without belaboring the point (and I am sure you will remember), I went through the process personally and given the time frame of this article, I was pleasantly surprised to see you experincing it the same time as I did. Hence, my question to you, because I was aware of the flaws,as you were, but it was, and is, the acceptance of the flaws that made all the difference. I hope, you were able to see the difference and as a result of it, are now wise enough to appreciate its diversity, because the nauances contained within it, which cast the distinctions between belief and reality are too delicate and fragile, because if given the choice; I would rather be pricked by the thorns of reality as I touch the rose of my idealism than fear the thorn and never touch the rose.

Ciao

Harish:

Thank you for an honest, sincere narrative. And congratulations for not letting your own views come in the way of a faithful narration. We need more of such and fewer of opinion pieces so that people can form their opinions on an informed basis.

It is interesting to see the diversity of reactions to the article. Some people take it as evidence of a rabidly communalist society where the UPA is only a brief interruption to India`s march to a Hindu Raj. Others see events like Godhra/Ahmedabad as aberrations in an otherwise secular society. The reality is that India, even Indians, forms a complex society which defies generalisation. Almost every statement one makes about India is correct- and wrong!

As far as everyday normal life is considered, it seems that India is less communal now than it ever was in its history. There is a lot more interaction at a daily basis between hindus and muslims in the marketplace, in offices, in doctors` clinics and in educational institutions. There are probably more Hindu-Muslim marriages taking place now than has ever happened in the history of India. In my parents` generation, it was possible for hindus and muslims to coexist -even in the same village- without ever interacting. There was hardly ever any Hindu who lived in a Muslim mohalla or vice versa. It was quite possible for a hindu or a muslim - especially females - to live their entire life without interacting with a Muslim or a Hindu, as the case may be, and die with their prejudices in tact. There was a time - before Partition - when almost every aspiring Muslim actor and actress - Dilip Kumar, Jayant, Ajeet, Madhubala, Meena Kumari, Nimmi had to choose a Hindu sounding name to gain acceptability by their Hindu audience; some Muslim actors like Santosh Kumar and Ratan Kumar continued with their assumed Hindu names even after they went to Pakistan. Compare that to the present where `Khan` is a brand name for success in Bolliwood. Irfan Pathan and Sania Mirza seem to be the new icons, only needing a temple dedicated to them before Hindus start to go there to worship.

So, is communalism dead in India? Far from it! The saffron parivar has been eminently successful in breeding hatred against Muslims among educated, middle class, urban, mostly irreligious Hindus (it has very little to do with religion, let alone caste - Avenger is right there). These people are suspicious and distrustful of Muslims and are late converts to the two-nation theory. (Ironically, a parallel class of Muslims led the fight for Pakistan in an earlier era). They have bought hook, line and sinker into the saffronites` babar-ki-aulad theory of Muslims, their high birth rates and their extra-territorial loyalties. Like the southern gentlemen in the U.S, they can be quite nice and cultured. They may interact with Muslims (treat their Muslim driver nicely ;-)), drink with them, eat with them, visit night clubs with them, visit their homes and invite them into theirs - and then go and vote for the BJP. Unlike the chawl owner who refused to lease his chawl to a Muslim, they have no problem in sharing an apartment in the same housing complex with a Muslim (of their own class, of course!).

These urban and urbane Hindus do not participate in riots. They would even shelter their Muslim friends and colleagues if they were ever threatened by riots. Yet they contribute to the climate of hatred in which it is possible for a Modi here and a Thakray there to use any opportunity to trigger riots against innocent Indians whom they consider `babar ki aulad`.

Nobody addresses the fundamental problem. I can think of only two reasons: 1. ignorance and 2. liberal peer-pressure for talking in vague terms.

For all the assorted intellectuals and pseudo-intellectuals here, I have the following to say:

1. Islam does not recognise the validity of ``kafir`` way of life. Inter-faith dialogue and crap like that is a mere waste of time. Islam depicts ``boot-parast`` peoples in worst possible terms.
2. Dawah (Evangelical activities) is obligatory for all Muslims.

(1) applies to both Judaism and Xtianity also but (2) does not apply to Judaism and (2) has lost much relevance in Xtian communities.

This is the fundamental problem. My dear Psec friends, please try to understand it for your own sake; there is is no place for secularism in Islamic societies.

Harish,

This was a wonderful and a moving narrative closer to reality at home. Thanks for sharing these personal moments with everyone here.

Adios

Re: # 46

``drink with them, eat with them, visit night clubs with them, visit their homes and invite them into theirs - and then go and vote for the BJP. ``

so whats wrong in that? Normally, for a upper caste urban hindu there are only 2 options Congress or BJP. When Congress talks about affirmative action and reservation for Muslims what else is he supposed to do? He may vote for BJP to protect his educational/work interests, not because he wants to incite rioting against he Muslims. And the same can be said about people belonging to other religion/caste/class.


``Yet they contribute to the climate of hatred in which it is possible for a Modi here and a Thakray there to use any opportunity to trigger riots against innocent Indians whom they consider `babar ki aulad`. ``

BJP in the last election moved very far away from the temple issue, it was fighting on development plank. Even though incorrect, ``indian shining`` was the message they wanted to put forth not ``Mandir wahi banega``. Even during assembly elections they have stayed away from contentious issues. Regarding Modi, yes if he wanted he could have stopped the riots, but the people of Gujarat and India have already given their verdict. It is the indian justice system that is too weak and corrupt to bring any criminal to justice. Thats why you have Bhagat, Sajjan Kumar, Modi, Lalu, Shahhbuddin ruling us.

nice article:

Not just intimacies, there are a lot of things that gets remapped as you grow with time and realise the facts of life are different than the ideal / utopian childhood..

I`d think growth of the BJP / fundamental feelings is directly related to the hypocrisies practised in the name of secularism.

The real meaning of secularism is to separate religion away from the government, not to bow to the superstitions and whims and fancies of every religion. Till now the government was bending over backwards to appease the minorities, now the majority wants the same treatment too..

I agree with comment number 47 too. If some religion is not compatible with secularism, then it should better get reformed to survive in multi-cultural / pluralistic societies....

Harish still lives in India and possibly knows the day-to-day situation more than the people living Canada, the US or in other parts of the world do. Harish writes, “India seemingly fast polarising along communal lines.” But, we have some optimist who w/o knowing what actually is taking place in India, paint a rosy picture of communal relations. What is the reason for such optimism? will come to that later. People who have some knowledge of communal relations in India also know that truck drivers and their assistants that were helping each other in pushing trucks would be quick to chop each other’s heads off and push each other over the cliff too as soon as communal riots break out in their respective areas.
I found that interesting that BJP contested last election on some development program. People really have short memories. Did Sonia Gandhi go around the country on RATH YATRA cheerleading and pep talking her troops on RSS/BJP development programs during the last elections? I do not think so. That shameful person is a casteless Sindhi, who has never set foot in a Mandir all his life. He is still fighting for Hindu Rajya on a rath!
Now India only has 2 to 3 % Brahmin! That’s a Good one. In that case, rest of the 97 to 98% Indians are shudras.

Let’s look at the optimist part.

“But why? You had assured me the deal was to be inked today.
What changed things so drastically?” Shanawaz asked the agent.
“You did not tell me you were Muslim. And you don’t look Muslim also.
You are educated too,” was the answer from Shambu, the Bihari Hindu real estate agent.”

The contrast is right there to see.

“There is a lot more interaction at a daily basis between hindus and muslims in the marketplace, in offices, in doctors` clinics and in educational institutions.”-DM

In a cosmopolitan city like Bombay, one expects people to be more knowledgeable. If a real estate agent, who probably meets a diverse group of people every day, shows such ignorance (educated Muslim!) about another community, than what do you expect in places like Jasilmir? The exchange clearly demonstrates that communities in India are moving in different direction and have very little interaction on daily basis.
People either don’t know their own country or are living in denial!

It is kind of puzzling that the much-maligned Modi still holds his position. Both RS/BJP and Congress Sarkars were unable to remove him. I can understand Congress’s dilemma. He is an elected CM, and they have to have a very good reason to remove him now. What is stopping RSS/BJP when its leaders ABV, and our casteless Sindhi have condemned Gujarat massacre on many occasions? Modi is still with RSS/BJB and can be removed thru a central committee action.
So, why they won’t remove Modi?
Modi is the most popular leader of RSS/BJP/ShivSena/VHP. The whole sangh parivar loves him for the way he masterminded the Gujarat massacre and the minute he is removed by Congress or RSS/BJP; he would emerge as the next PM candidate for India. That is not good for our Casteless Sindhi and the best course is to keep him in Gujarat and condemn Gujarat massacre whenever it is politically expedient.
Obviously, there is no need to remind here that only a bunch of criminals, thugs, and killers would love a leader like Modi.

Kabuli, Nazzz, Avenger,

Thank you for reading. I do hope to address the issues of form and content more to your satisfaction.

# 22 paindupastry,

I share your hope myself.

ana,

Thanks!

Veeresh,

I liked your secular gig on the Arabian Sea...and in my neighbourhood. Hope you read the later installments too.

nb,

Thank you for the encouragement. Yes, India has changed. But it is the pace that is mind boggling. From your generation`s station it looked like the behemoth will never ever change.... from that of mine...the speed of change is mind numbing. I am hoping to offer a strictly impressionistic, personal take on the process from inside the churner.

Feroz,

Yes. There is nothing to disagree. I do hope you stay with the progression of this work. Yours is a valuable voice.

dost-mitter,

Dost, I was waiting for you to have read it. You have done similar pieces before, and it is particularly important that I get your take on the issue. Thanks.

And yes, we have had so many discussions that finally cleave the chowk community to the two halves of status quoish nationalistic viewpoints. A slice of life piece, I hope, will help a more realistic debate. Finally, abstractions are not worth too much, especially when progress in understanding is stymied because of the anxiety of betrayal to long held, but unreviewed, views.

Please do stay with this.

Maharana,

Thank you. My pleasure.

masanamuthu,

Very true. In fact, i did myself see a lot of realities that I was not prepared for, and on this one trip itself. Many will unfold in the later part of this long work.


To everybody else on this board,

Thank you for having read this mammoth 5000 word piece. It is the longest, but I thought it set the tone perfectly for what is to follow. I did not want this to be an essay. Essays can be thought provoking, but dollops of real life helps bring in what I think, would be called a compassionate understanding of issues. Besides affording us a chance to update our understanding of the current reality.

Taking incidents or quotes from this piece alone to push one`s chosen view on scambled issues might not be so challenging, but it will definitely be less rewarding.

I liked the fact that several people on the board connected this section to their own individual experiences, like Amrita and kabuli. Besides a politically incorrect slanging match, this is also the ribaldry of young life. A parental eye cast on it will be morally outraged!

HN

Kabuli, Nazzz, Avenger,

Thank you for reading. I do hope to address the issues of form and content more to your satisfaction.

# 22 paindupastry,

I share your hope myself.

ana,

Thanks!

Veeresh,

I liked your secular gig on the Arabian Sea...and in my neighbourhood. Hope you read the later installments too.

nb,

Thank you for the encouragement. Yes, India has changed. But it is the pace that is mind boggling. From your generation`s station it looked like the behemoth will never ever change.... from that of mine...the speed of change is mind numbing. I am hoping to offer a strictly impressionistic, personal take on the process from inside the churner.

Feroz,

Yes. There is nothing to disagree. I do hope you stay with the progression of this work. Yours is a valuable voice.

dost-mitter,

Dost, I was waiting for you to have read it. You have done similar pieces before, and it is particularly important that I get your take on the issue. Thanks.

And yes, we have had so many discussions that finally cleave the chowk community to the two halves of status quoish nationalistic viewpoints. A slice of life piece, I hope, will help a more realistic debate. Finally, abstractions are not worth too much, especially when progress in understanding is stymied because of the anxiety of betrayal to long held, but unreviewed, views.

Please do stay with this.

Maharana,

Thank you. My pleasure.

masanamuthu,

Very true. In fact, i did myself see a lot of realities that I was not prepared for, and on this one trip itself. Many will unfold in the later part of this long work.


To everybody else on this board,

Thank you for having read this mammoth 5000 word piece. It is the longest, but I thought it set the tone perfectly for what is to follow. I did not want this to be an essay. Essays can be thought provoking, but dollops of real life helps bring in what I think, would be called a compassionate understanding of issues. Besides affording us a chance to update our understanding of the current reality.

Taking incidents or quotes from this piece alone to push one`s chosen view on scambled issues might not be so challenging, but it will definitely be less rewarding.

I liked the fact that several people on the board connected this section to their own individual experiences, like Amrita and kabuli. Besides a politically incorrect slanging match, this is also the ribaldry of young life. A parental eye cast on it will be morally outraged!

HN

``Obviously, there is no need to remind here that only a bunch of criminals, thugs, and killers would love a leader like Modi.``

Well...5 crore Gujarathis did vote for him...so I`m assuming they are criminals , thugs and killers....all 5 crore of them..

``Now India only has 2 to 3 % Brahmin! That’s a Good one. In that case, rest of the 97 to 98% Indians are shudras``

Actually that is true. Brahmins only make up 2-3% of India`s population. And most of them have no interest in India . I am one of those 2-3%. I have more relatives outside India than in India. Thats why I find it funny when accusations about India being dominated by brahmins fly around. Truth is , the only place in India dominated by brahmins is the US Visa counters. In rural India - brahmins are almost extinct. There are more brahmins in Detroit than in Lucknow or Jaipur, for instance.

Basically - India is ruled by shudras. Modi/Advani/Thackray/Uma Bharthi....all these hindutwa guys and gals...are shudras....just a matter of different shades of shudra-hood...one more so than the other....

Vajpayee will go down in history as India`s last brahmin prime minister.

Simply superb Harish!

#51 by HP

[But, we have some optimist who w/o knowing what actually is taking place in India, paint a rosy picture of communal relations.]

I assume you are talking about veeresh. In case you didn’t know, he still lives in India, just as Harish does and I do. So tomorrow, if I write a flattering picture of communal relations here, will that mean that everything is fine and dandy?

I have more Muslim friends than Hindu and I come from what is labeled as a communally sensitive city, Hyderabad. Whenever a riot breaks out in any other part of India, the security forces here get nervous.

The truth is that relations between the two communities are neither as bad as you seem to imagine nor as rosy as many of us would want them to be.

As someone who has seen a fair share of communal violence, I feel it is difficult to say for sure how and why a riot starts. It can be as minor a provocation as a dispute between a Muslim shopkeeper and a Hindu shopkeeper. It often snowballs into communal violence when more people become involved and in the heat of the moment, any one of them imagines a perceived slight to his/her religion (something like calling a Muslim a pig).

Prejudices are quite common even among city folk, but that has never prevented most Hindus and Muslims from leading peaceful lives. My Muslim friends often joke about my vegetarianism and in turn, I joke about their “purdah-ed” women, but that hasn’t affected our friendships in the least. I speak not just for myself, but a whole lot of other Hyderabadis.

It is not the prejudice per se, but a rash of inexplicably bad temper that often causes communal riots, at least in India. Of course, at times, systematic indoctrination can also be a cause, but the percentage of people who would be willing to lend themselves to such manipulation are miniscule and most wouldn’t care less.

The fate of Hindus and Muslims is so intertwined that it is difficult for one community to imagine life without the other. Without the Muslim flower-seller, most Hindus will be hard-pressed to perform even the simple act of offering flowers to their gods. Without the largely Hindu buyers, many successful Muslim businesses would never flourish.

While I do not deny that there are constant attempts to drive a wedge between the two communities, the fact is they are too integrated and their lives too intertwined for anyone to really succeed.

Re: # 52
late 20s, early 30s...I am your generation, but my India is stuck in another time because I left. What I do love about India is that always, people who have had the drive and the ability have been able to make a success of themselves, even if not in the regular engineering, medicine fields so dear to the middle classes. I remember I was struck by jang`s background too once. Compared with the background of most Pakistani chowkies, it does stand out.

Harish, I don`t think India is getting more polarized that it ever was.

The animosity between Hindus and Muslims has existed for ages. This is nothing new.

The most important thing is to not allow these feelings to manifest themselves as physical violence.

Re: HN # 53

Harish, I will stay with the progress of this article and its interacts, because the experience has been highly educational and eludicating and it promises to be more educational in the future.

As to the value of my voice, it is worthless in this case, because I have nothing to add, to this debate, of anything of much significance. My idea of India is limited to the glances at newspapers and TV reports and secondary travel monologues. What I know of India is more a perception; a view, which is not necessarily India or Indian in its true sense. I would readily refrain from passing a comment on the nature of what it means to be Indian in India of today, in the contempory political-social idiom, because I am acutely aware that there exists a huge chasm between our common knowledge of each other and what we know of each other is nothing more than a one dimensional vision clouded by our personal myopias of rancour and bitterness towards each other. I would like to think that this gulf of ignorance can be bridged with a bit of enlightment, but I realize that it will not happen unless we are able and capable of growing beyond the stunted nature of our emotions, which have been, and continue to be, girded by our mutual historic experiences.

Parenthetically speaking, when Neville Chamberlain died in November 1940, Winston Churchill offered a few words to the memory of his departed political foe. His words were instructive, because he compared history to an old lady and using that metaphor, he said that history, like an old lady stumbles upon a path of memory holding up a lamp, with which she tries to revive the glories and passions of the past. In a way, we are not too dissimilar to that old lady, because we are so immeshed in the quicksands of history, that we have never been able to out live history and thus, forget its passions and glories. We all cherish a past and we dilgently strive to recreate that past, but what we often forget and care not to be bother with, is that opposing interpretations of history are just the two sides of the same coin. The glory of one interpretation is another`s interpretation of infamy and the passion of one is the sufferance of another and as long as we cling to this emotional crutch, we will never move away from the limitations of our common angst.

I am not advocating the denial of history or the historic evolution, which influences and guides us helter-skelter, but I am arguing for the reason and not the rationalization, which suggests that history should teach us the maturity to progress without asking us to subsitute its lessons as a justifications for our contempory follies. As long as we learn from history and what we learn is to treat history with a dispassion, we will surely break free of our emotional historic chains, which bind us to our personal stakes of prejudices. I do not think, and then again I might be wrong in saying this, that we have quite achieved this feat, because history, in our experiences, teaches us to nurse a grudge and wait for vengence and not to forget as we would hope to be forgiven ourselves for our own past trepasses. As long as we use the rationalization of history as a reason for our actions of misdeeds and wrongs, we will never learn that rationalization is never a reason and reason should never rationalize a wrong no matter how justified it might be historically.

Ciao

So, the BJP and its allies and independents who support them have 41 seats in the Jharkand state assembly among them in an 81-seat legislative body but the governor invites the ``secular`` Congress and its allies to form the ministry. The newly appointed chief minister is none other than Shibu Soren against whom a couple of very serious criminal charges are pending.

The governor who did this bears the name of Syed Sibtey Razi.

People should accept that there has been no ``I-scratch-your-back-if-you-will-scratch-mine`` policy that led to this state of affairs. So long as we keep the Hindutva party out of pwer so that ``secularism`` can triumph in India and if a Muslim governor participates in such a secular, socialist, democratic act by finding that 40 is bigger than 41 (is this due to the governor`s possible education at a madrassah or is it just plain New Math coming out of Jawaharlal Nehru University that I know nothing about?), the majority community should not feel cheated of an electoral victory but should pledge to improve the secular credentials of the nation by voting a bigger Haj subsidy next year. Perhaps we should also voluntarily pay a `jizya` too to demonstrate how much we are willing to bend forward to appease our minority citizens.

Maybe we should leave a suicide note next time pilgrims from our religion get burnt in a train carriage locked from the outside.

someone (i think feroze) claimed that communalism is BJP leveraging prejudices into political action. this is true, but BJP is not the first. this has been done before by congress in vote-bank politics, and in pakistan movement, both very successfully.

Ref HP #36
.
[Former President of India would not say something or even imply that the Former PM of India shied away from doing anything positive without having first hand information on what exactly took place in the Indian power corridors when Gujarat Massacre was in full swing.]

The former President of India has accused the BJP of not giving him a second term and admitting to be a ``Nehruvian socialist``. (I suppose ``Nehruvian socialism`` is what is feeding India today). Bootlicker of the Nehru Family would be more appropriate to describe the man.

[The Gujarat massacre was the direct result of Hindutva followers’ propaganda and lies.]

You are absolutely correct. The Muslims were lovey-dovey with the Hindus and were actually giving them kerosene so that they could make tea in their train carriage which probably spilled and caused the fire.

[There will be more minority massacres in India because that is what Hin