The Covered Trucks
Harish Nambiar March 4, 2005
#1 Posted by mumbaikar on March 4, 2005 11:28:49 am
On Ambedkar .........
75 yrs later, temple priest wants to tell Ambedkar: Sorry, we threw you out
http://www.mangalorean.com/news.php?newstype=local&newsid=13842
NASHIK, Mar 3: As head priest of the historic Kala Ram temple here, Sudhir Pujari has taken a decision that appears generous at first glance: he`ll adopt 25 Dalit children and 25 tribals on behalf of the Janasthan Peeth of Nirwani Akhada.
It`s actually an act of atonement that comes 75 years too late. At 3 pm on March 2, 1930, at this very temple, some 15,000 Dalits had gathered for a darshan of the famous black idols of Lord Ram, Sita and Laxman.
The first batch of 125 men and 25 women divided themselves into four groups and stood outside the temple`s four doors, waiting to be let in. The priest of the temple turned them away saying they were “untouchables”. This led to a satyagraha and a five-year agitation led by Dr B R, Ambedkar, during which he decided to abandon Hinduism.
Ramdasbuwa Pujari, the priest who spurned the Dalits, was Sudhir Pujari`s grandfather. Today, the grandson wishes things had turned out differently. “I think it was a big mistake on the part of my grandfather,” he said. Then, with the benefit of hindsight, he added: “Had I been in his place I would have thought judiciously and permitted entry to all, irrespective of caste.”
Sudhir, who was appointed Mahant by the Nirvani Akhada during the last Kumbh Mela, belongs to the 27th generation of priests conducting rituals at the temple. In his own way, he is trying to undo some of the damage that his grandfather caused.
Adopting the 50 Dalit and tribal children on behalf of the Janasthan Peeth, of which he is the Mahant, is one step in this direction. He said the Peeth would take responsibility for bringing up the children and educating them properly. “You may consider this as a malampatti (dressing of wound) by a grandson on wounds inflicted by his grandfather,” he says.
The Kala Ram temple entry satyagraha proved to be a turning point in Ambedkar`s life and Dalit politics. In 1935 Ambedkar announced that though he had been born a Hindu, he would not die a Hindu. And even though the temple was thrown open for Dalits by law later, Ambedkar`s mind was already made up and he converted to Buddhism in 1956.
Three years back, Sudhir Pujari pushed a proposal to erect a plaque in front of the temple to acknowledge Ambedkar`s satyagraha. That move has been lost in red tape.
Meanwhile, he counts the cost of his grandfather`s decision. “Had my grandfather permitted entry to the Dalits, perhaps Ambedkar would have stayed in the Hindu fold,” he reflects.
But he cannot turn the clock back. So he continues his own form of atonement.
-New Ind Press
75 yrs later, temple priest wants to tell Ambedkar: Sorry, we threw you out
http://www.mangalorean.com/news.php?newstype=local&newsid=13842
NASHIK, Mar 3: As head priest of the historic Kala Ram temple here, Sudhir Pujari has taken a decision that appears generous at first glance: he`ll adopt 25 Dalit children and 25 tribals on behalf of the Janasthan Peeth of Nirwani Akhada.
It`s actually an act of atonement that comes 75 years too late. At 3 pm on March 2, 1930, at this very temple, some 15,000 Dalits had gathered for a darshan of the famous black idols of Lord Ram, Sita and Laxman.
The first batch of 125 men and 25 women divided themselves into four groups and stood outside the temple`s four doors, waiting to be let in. The priest of the temple turned them away saying they were “untouchables”. This led to a satyagraha and a five-year agitation led by Dr B R, Ambedkar, during which he decided to abandon Hinduism.
Ramdasbuwa Pujari, the priest who spurned the Dalits, was Sudhir Pujari`s grandfather. Today, the grandson wishes things had turned out differently. “I think it was a big mistake on the part of my grandfather,” he said. Then, with the benefit of hindsight, he added: “Had I been in his place I would have thought judiciously and permitted entry to all, irrespective of caste.”
Sudhir, who was appointed Mahant by the Nirvani Akhada during the last Kumbh Mela, belongs to the 27th generation of priests conducting rituals at the temple. In his own way, he is trying to undo some of the damage that his grandfather caused.
Adopting the 50 Dalit and tribal children on behalf of the Janasthan Peeth, of which he is the Mahant, is one step in this direction. He said the Peeth would take responsibility for bringing up the children and educating them properly. “You may consider this as a malampatti (dressing of wound) by a grandson on wounds inflicted by his grandfather,” he says.
The Kala Ram temple entry satyagraha proved to be a turning point in Ambedkar`s life and Dalit politics. In 1935 Ambedkar announced that though he had been born a Hindu, he would not die a Hindu. And even though the temple was thrown open for Dalits by law later, Ambedkar`s mind was already made up and he converted to Buddhism in 1956.
Three years back, Sudhir Pujari pushed a proposal to erect a plaque in front of the temple to acknowledge Ambedkar`s satyagraha. That move has been lost in red tape.
Meanwhile, he counts the cost of his grandfather`s decision. “Had my grandfather permitted entry to the Dalits, perhaps Ambedkar would have stayed in the Hindu fold,” he reflects.
But he cannot turn the clock back. So he continues his own form of atonement.
-New Ind Press
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#2 Posted by mumbaikar on March 4, 2005 11:29:52 am
75 yrs later, temple priest wants to tell Ambedkar: Sorry, we threw you out
NASHIK, Mar 3: As head priest of the historic Kala Ram temple here, Sudhir Pujari has taken a decision that appears generous at first glance: he`ll adopt 25 Dalit children and 25 tribals on behalf of the Janasthan Peeth of Nirwani Akhada.
It`s actually an act of atonement that comes 75 years too late. At 3 pm on March 2, 1930, at this very temple, some 15,000 Dalits had gathered for a darshan of the famous black idols of Lord Ram, Sita and Laxman.
The first batch of 125 men and 25 women divided themselves into four groups and stood outside the temple`s four doors, waiting to be let in. The priest of the temple turned them away saying they were “untouchables”. This led to a satyagraha and a five-year agitation led by Dr B R, Ambedkar, during which he decided to abandon Hinduism.
Ramdasbuwa Pujari, the priest who spurned the Dalits, was Sudhir Pujari`s grandfather. Today, the grandson wishes things had turned out differently. “I think it was a big mistake on the part of my grandfather,” he said. Then, with the benefit of hindsight, he added: “Had I been in his place I would have thought judiciously and permitted entry to all, irrespective of caste.”
Sudhir, who was appointed Mahant by the Nirvani Akhada during the last Kumbh Mela, belongs to the 27th generation of priests conducting rituals at the temple. In his own way, he is trying to undo some of the damage that his grandfather caused.
Adopting the 50 Dalit and tribal children on behalf of the Janasthan Peeth, of which he is the Mahant, is one step in this direction. He said the Peeth would take responsibility for bringing up the children and educating them properly. “You may consider this as a malampatti (dressing of wound) by a grandson on wounds inflicted by his grandfather,” he says.
The Kala Ram temple entry satyagraha proved to be a turning point in Ambedkar`s life and Dalit politics. In 1935 Ambedkar announced that though he had been born a Hindu, he would not die a Hindu. And even though the temple was thrown open for Dalits by law later, Ambedkar`s mind was already made up and he converted to Buddhism in 1956.
Three years back, Sudhir Pujari pushed a proposal to erect a plaque in front of the temple to acknowledge Ambedkar`s satyagraha. That move has been lost in red tape.
Meanwhile, he counts the cost of his grandfather`s decision. “Had my grandfather permitted entry to the Dalits, perhaps Ambedkar would have stayed in the Hindu fold,” he reflects.
But he cannot turn the clock back. So he continues his own form of atonement.
NASHIK, Mar 3: As head priest of the historic Kala Ram temple here, Sudhir Pujari has taken a decision that appears generous at first glance: he`ll adopt 25 Dalit children and 25 tribals on behalf of the Janasthan Peeth of Nirwani Akhada.
It`s actually an act of atonement that comes 75 years too late. At 3 pm on March 2, 1930, at this very temple, some 15,000 Dalits had gathered for a darshan of the famous black idols of Lord Ram, Sita and Laxman.
The first batch of 125 men and 25 women divided themselves into four groups and stood outside the temple`s four doors, waiting to be let in. The priest of the temple turned them away saying they were “untouchables”. This led to a satyagraha and a five-year agitation led by Dr B R, Ambedkar, during which he decided to abandon Hinduism.
Ramdasbuwa Pujari, the priest who spurned the Dalits, was Sudhir Pujari`s grandfather. Today, the grandson wishes things had turned out differently. “I think it was a big mistake on the part of my grandfather,” he said. Then, with the benefit of hindsight, he added: “Had I been in his place I would have thought judiciously and permitted entry to all, irrespective of caste.”
Sudhir, who was appointed Mahant by the Nirvani Akhada during the last Kumbh Mela, belongs to the 27th generation of priests conducting rituals at the temple. In his own way, he is trying to undo some of the damage that his grandfather caused.
Adopting the 50 Dalit and tribal children on behalf of the Janasthan Peeth, of which he is the Mahant, is one step in this direction. He said the Peeth would take responsibility for bringing up the children and educating them properly. “You may consider this as a malampatti (dressing of wound) by a grandson on wounds inflicted by his grandfather,” he says.
The Kala Ram temple entry satyagraha proved to be a turning point in Ambedkar`s life and Dalit politics. In 1935 Ambedkar announced that though he had been born a Hindu, he would not die a Hindu. And even though the temple was thrown open for Dalits by law later, Ambedkar`s mind was already made up and he converted to Buddhism in 1956.
Three years back, Sudhir Pujari pushed a proposal to erect a plaque in front of the temple to acknowledge Ambedkar`s satyagraha. That move has been lost in red tape.
Meanwhile, he counts the cost of his grandfather`s decision. “Had my grandfather permitted entry to the Dalits, perhaps Ambedkar would have stayed in the Hindu fold,” he reflects.
But he cannot turn the clock back. So he continues his own form of atonement.
#3 Posted by mumbaikar on March 4, 2005 11:31:37 am
As head priest of the historic Kala Ram temple here, Sudhir Pujari has taken a decision that appears generous at first glance: he`ll adopt 25 Dalit children and 25 tribals on behalf of the Janasthan Peeth of Nirwani Akhada. It`s actually an act of atonement that comes 75 years too late. At 3 pm on March 2, 1930, at this very temple, some 15,000 Dalits had gathered for a darshan of the famous black idols of Lord Ram, Sita and Laxman. The first batch of 125 men and 25 women divided themselves into four groups and stood outside the temple`s four doors, waiting to be let in. The priest of the temple turned them away saying they were “untouchables”. This led to a satyagraha and a five-year agitation led by Dr B R, Ambedkar, during which he decided to abandon Hinduism. Ramdasbuwa Pujari, the priest who spurned the Dalits, was Sudhir Pujari`s grandfather. Today, the grandson wishes things had turned out differently. “I think it was a big mistake on the part of my grandfather,” he said. Then, with the benefit of hindsight, he added: “Had I been in his place I would have thought judiciously and permitted entry to all, irrespective of caste.” Sudhir, who was appointed Mahant by the Nirvani Akhada during the last Kumbh Mela, belongs to the 27th generation of priests conducting rituals at the temple. In his own way, he is trying to undo some of the damage that his grandfather caused. Adopting the 50 Dalit and tribal children on behalf of the Janasthan Peeth, of which he is the Mahant, is one step in this direction. He said the Peeth would take responsibility for bringing up the children and educating them properly. “You may consider this as a malampatti (dressing of wound) by a grandson on wounds inflicted by his grandfather,” he says. The Kala Ram temple entry satyagraha proved to be a turning point in Ambedkar`s life and Dalit politics. In 1935 Ambedkar announced that though he had been born a Hindu, he would not die a Hindu. And even though the temple was thrown open for Dalits by law later, Ambedkar`s mind was already made up and he converted to Buddhism in 1956. Three years back, Sudhir Pujari pushed a proposal to erect a plaque in front of the temple to acknowledge Ambedkar`s satyagraha. That move has been lost in red tape. Meanwhile, he counts the cost of his grandfather`s decision. “Had my grandfather permitted entry to the Dalits, perhaps Ambedkar would have stayed in the Hindu fold,” he reflects. But he cannot turn the clock back. So he continues his own form of atonement.
#4 Posted by mumbaikar on March 4, 2005 11:32:16 am
75 yrs later, temple priest wants to tell Ambedkar: Sorry, we threw you out
NASHIK, Mar 3: As head priest of the historic Kala Ram temple here, Sudhir Pujari has taken a decision that appears generous at first glance: he`ll adopt 25 Dalit children and 25 tribals on behalf of the Janasthan Peeth of Nirwani Akhada.
It`s actually an act of atonement that comes 75 years too late. At 3 pm on March 2, 1930, at this very temple, some 15,000 Dalits had gathered for a darshan of the famous black idols of Lord Ram, Sita and Laxman.
The first batch of 125 men and 25 women divided themselves into four groups and stood outside the temple`s four doors, waiting to be let in. The priest of the temple turned them away saying they were “untouchables”. This led to a satyagraha and a five-year agitation led by Dr B R, Ambedkar, during which he decided to abandon Hinduism.
Ramdasbuwa Pujari, the priest who spurned the Dalits, was Sudhir Pujari`s grandfather. Today, the grandson wishes things had turned out differently. “I think it was a big mistake on the part of my grandfather,” he said. Then, with the benefit of hindsight, he added: “Had I been in his place I would have thought judiciously and permitted entry to all, irrespective of caste.”
Sudhir, who was appointed Mahant by the Nirvani Akhada during the last Kumbh Mela, belongs to the 27th generation of priests conducting rituals at the temple. In his own way, he is trying to undo some of the damage that his grandfather caused.
Adopting the 50 Dalit and tribal children on behalf of the Janasthan Peeth, of which he is the Mahant, is one step in this direction. He said the Peeth would take responsibility for bringing up the children and educating them properly. “You may consider this as a malampatti (dressing of wound) by a grandson on wounds inflicted by his grandfather,” he says.
The Kala Ram temple entry satyagraha proved to be a turning point in Ambedkar`s life and Dalit politics. In 1935 Ambedkar announced that though he had been born a Hindu, he would not die a Hindu. And even though the temple was thrown open for Dalits by law later, Ambedkar`s mind was already made up and he converted to Buddhism in 1956.
Three years back, Sudhir Pujari pushed a proposal to erect a plaque in front of the temple to acknowledge Ambedkar`s satyagraha. That move has been lost in red tape.
Meanwhile, he counts the cost of his grandfather`s decision. “Had my grandfather permitted entry to the Dalits, perhaps Ambedkar would have stayed in the Hindu fold,” he reflects.
But he cannot turn the clock back. So he continues his own form of atonement.
NASHIK, Mar 3: As head priest of the historic Kala Ram temple here, Sudhir Pujari has taken a decision that appears generous at first glance: he`ll adopt 25 Dalit children and 25 tribals on behalf of the Janasthan Peeth of Nirwani Akhada.
It`s actually an act of atonement that comes 75 years too late. At 3 pm on March 2, 1930, at this very temple, some 15,000 Dalits had gathered for a darshan of the famous black idols of Lord Ram, Sita and Laxman.
The first batch of 125 men and 25 women divided themselves into four groups and stood outside the temple`s four doors, waiting to be let in. The priest of the temple turned them away saying they were “untouchables”. This led to a satyagraha and a five-year agitation led by Dr B R, Ambedkar, during which he decided to abandon Hinduism.
Ramdasbuwa Pujari, the priest who spurned the Dalits, was Sudhir Pujari`s grandfather. Today, the grandson wishes things had turned out differently. “I think it was a big mistake on the part of my grandfather,” he said. Then, with the benefit of hindsight, he added: “Had I been in his place I would have thought judiciously and permitted entry to all, irrespective of caste.”
Sudhir, who was appointed Mahant by the Nirvani Akhada during the last Kumbh Mela, belongs to the 27th generation of priests conducting rituals at the temple. In his own way, he is trying to undo some of the damage that his grandfather caused.
Adopting the 50 Dalit and tribal children on behalf of the Janasthan Peeth, of which he is the Mahant, is one step in this direction. He said the Peeth would take responsibility for bringing up the children and educating them properly. “You may consider this as a malampatti (dressing of wound) by a grandson on wounds inflicted by his grandfather,” he says.
The Kala Ram temple entry satyagraha proved to be a turning point in Ambedkar`s life and Dalit politics. In 1935 Ambedkar announced that though he had been born a Hindu, he would not die a Hindu. And even though the temple was thrown open for Dalits by law later, Ambedkar`s mind was already made up and he converted to Buddhism in 1956.
Three years back, Sudhir Pujari pushed a proposal to erect a plaque in front of the temple to acknowledge Ambedkar`s satyagraha. That move has been lost in red tape.
Meanwhile, he counts the cost of his grandfather`s decision. “Had my grandfather permitted entry to the Dalits, perhaps Ambedkar would have stayed in the Hindu fold,” he reflects.
But he cannot turn the clock back. So he continues his own form of atonement.
#5 Posted by rahul_capri on March 4, 2005 6:45:33 pm
Harish, I think both of the pieces are of outstanding literary merit. You should consider publishing the whole series as a book. Among the best I have ever read on chowk, if not the best.
#6 Posted by harimau on March 4, 2005 8:38:23 pm
Harish writes:
[Interestingly, Nagpur’s other claim to national consciousness is as the head quarters of militant Hinduism, the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh. While I was growing up, I thought of the RSS as a venerable institution, justifiably sidelined.]
Ah yes, the bogeyman of secularism, the RSS.
Out here in the tsunami-hit areas, I didn`t see a single ``secular`` Congressman, the rationalist DMK, ADMK or DK among the affected fishermen and farmers. The only ones out there providing help are the international NGOs such as Oxfam, Unicef; the Socialist Unity Center of India (actually, the SUCI are Communists and other committed left-wingers calling themselves Socialists); the RSS under the banner Seva Bharathi; and local jama`ats. Talking about journalistic integrity, has one single newspaper in India written a story about the service by the RSS or even the SUCI? On the other hand, you are all willing to publish photographs of a ``secular`` Congress minister, a ``rationalist`` DMK minister or our Italian Au-Pair making a 30-minute visit just to provide photo opportunities for rags with political agendas -- which is every single newspaper or magazine in India.
Why is it that secularists and our Paki friends (I deliberately include Tahmed32, HP, Romair, etc., in this category) would be willing to believe that the jama`ats would be rendering service regardless of religion, grudgingly acknowledge that the Christian churches might possibly do the same, whereas they would find it incredible that Seva Bharathi is equally rendering service without regard to religion?
While the secularists and their hand-wringing Hindu friends overseas have actually petitioned the governments of UK and the USA to declare Seva International as a terrorist organization on a par with Al-Quaeda (because of its supposed financial connection with the RSS during the Gujarat riots), why is it that the fact that the Government in the UK has declared that there was no misappropriation of funds to the tune of 2 million pounds sterling as alleged is not news fit enough to be published? And why is it that those Pakis who are willing to jump to the defence of Al-Quaeda are not willing to jump to the defence of Seva International if they are supposed to have engaged in similar if not identical terrorist activities?
[Interestingly, Nagpur’s other claim to national consciousness is as the head quarters of militant Hinduism, the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh. While I was growing up, I thought of the RSS as a venerable institution, justifiably sidelined.]
Ah yes, the bogeyman of secularism, the RSS.
Out here in the tsunami-hit areas, I didn`t see a single ``secular`` Congressman, the rationalist DMK, ADMK or DK among the affected fishermen and farmers. The only ones out there providing help are the international NGOs such as Oxfam, Unicef; the Socialist Unity Center of India (actually, the SUCI are Communists and other committed left-wingers calling themselves Socialists); the RSS under the banner Seva Bharathi; and local jama`ats. Talking about journalistic integrity, has one single newspaper in India written a story about the service by the RSS or even the SUCI? On the other hand, you are all willing to publish photographs of a ``secular`` Congress minister, a ``rationalist`` DMK minister or our Italian Au-Pair making a 30-minute visit just to provide photo opportunities for rags with political agendas -- which is every single newspaper or magazine in India.
Why is it that secularists and our Paki friends (I deliberately include Tahmed32, HP, Romair, etc., in this category) would be willing to believe that the jama`ats would be rendering service regardless of religion, grudgingly acknowledge that the Christian churches might possibly do the same, whereas they would find it incredible that Seva Bharathi is equally rendering service without regard to religion?
While the secularists and their hand-wringing Hindu friends overseas have actually petitioned the governments of UK and the USA to declare Seva International as a terrorist organization on a par with Al-Quaeda (because of its supposed financial connection with the RSS during the Gujarat riots), why is it that the fact that the Government in the UK has declared that there was no misappropriation of funds to the tune of 2 million pounds sterling as alleged is not news fit enough to be published? And why is it that those Pakis who are willing to jump to the defence of Al-Quaeda are not willing to jump to the defence of Seva International if they are supposed to have engaged in similar if not identical terrorist activities?
#7 Posted by avenger on March 4, 2005 10:18:55 pm
With ref to Mumbaikar`s story of temple priest adopting dalit kids....
I bet it was more out of necessity than anything else. For there is a tremendous shortage of brahmin kids willing to join the priest profession. Most brahmin kids do engineering and medicine and have no interest in the temple life. The ones who stay behind in villages and accept the temple life are either very poor and cannot afford professional education or retarded.
This is a serious problem that dogs every hindu temple today. Non-availability of brahmin boys to take up positions of priesthood.The obvious solution is to train lower caste hindus boys to become priests. Even temples that did not even allow entry to dalits worshippers just a few decades back are today managed by dalit priests.
I bet it was more out of necessity than anything else. For there is a tremendous shortage of brahmin kids willing to join the priest profession. Most brahmin kids do engineering and medicine and have no interest in the temple life. The ones who stay behind in villages and accept the temple life are either very poor and cannot afford professional education or retarded.
This is a serious problem that dogs every hindu temple today. Non-availability of brahmin boys to take up positions of priesthood.The obvious solution is to train lower caste hindus boys to become priests. Even temples that did not even allow entry to dalits worshippers just a few decades back are today managed by dalit priests.
#8 Posted by FarzanaVersey on March 4, 2005 10:46:18 pm
Harish:
Keeping political views out of this, thus far the two pieces have a nice laid-back quality. I wonder what the denouement would be like, if there can be one in such a `journey`. I needn`t add that they are exceedingly well-written.
Just one more point: since you are weaving together tales, there have been occasions where I found that while you were letting the subjects make the observations, you really did not want to stay away from commenting. You, as writer-chronicler, could have been a more pro-active sutradhar. But then this is an opinion of someone who does not believe in objectivity!
Yet...wonderful...
Keeping political views out of this, thus far the two pieces have a nice laid-back quality. I wonder what the denouement would be like, if there can be one in such a `journey`. I needn`t add that they are exceedingly well-written.
Just one more point: since you are weaving together tales, there have been occasions where I found that while you were letting the subjects make the observations, you really did not want to stay away from commenting. You, as writer-chronicler, could have been a more pro-active sutradhar. But then this is an opinion of someone who does not believe in objectivity!
Yet...wonderful...
#9 Posted by amrita on March 4, 2005 10:51:49 pm
Harish - this road trip of yours is bringing back my memories by the dozen. Like Nagpur from whence came R, the self styled ``Nagpur ka Kishen Kanhaiya`` who zipped around B`lore in a Bajaj Scooter and kept a Bihari cook so that he could eat pure veg food just the way they made it back home in Nagpur (deee-licious!). And the RSS which would regularly send three old men to my brother`s boarding school (run by Catholic priests) to demand that they allow them to take PT classes for the kids. The fathers would agree and politely ask them to return another day and the three old uncles would march out singing songs. And so much more.
I wonder if others also see some characters of their lives in your story? Or is it limited to those of us who grew up as outsiders with an inside view?
I wonder if others also see some characters of their lives in your story? Or is it limited to those of us who grew up as outsiders with an inside view?
#10 Posted by avenger on March 4, 2005 11:35:53 pm
``But then this is an opinion of someone who does not believe in objectivity!``
At last !! Some honest introspection from FV-ji....
At last !! Some honest introspection from FV-ji....
#11 Posted by rahul_capri on March 5, 2005 4:37:08 am
I was reminded of the great Baba Amte and Subba Rao, and the days I spent in the National Youth Project camp in Kanya Kumari, as a kid.My memories of those days are not very clear.He kicked off the knit india movement from there. It was a great experience, getting to know people from all over the country and learning to greet them in their language. My first full scale introduction to the diversity of India and how I have come to love it and how i would like it to be. Wonder why people like Baba Amte and Gandhians like Subba Rao would not be very keen to participate in active politcs now, but I dont wonder a lot.
#12 Posted by HN on March 5, 2005 4:56:24 am
mumbaikar,
That was a nice nugget!
rahul_capri,
That is profuse. Thank you. In case you know any publishers/literary agents, please give them this email id : rideaway@gmail.com....:)
Farzana,
I was hoping you would arrive here. Thank you. Yes, the Sutradhaar issue is rather vexing for me.
As regards the ``denoument`` of this journey... I hope it remains readable till the end. Some odd things have occurred in the trip, and marrying all the people, details, and enmeshing the issues involved etc is a challenge.
Amrita,
rahul-capri has already taken your cue.
Thank you all.
That was a nice nugget!
rahul_capri,
That is profuse. Thank you. In case you know any publishers/literary agents, please give them this email id : rideaway@gmail.com....:)
Farzana,
I was hoping you would arrive here. Thank you. Yes, the Sutradhaar issue is rather vexing for me.
As regards the ``denoument`` of this journey... I hope it remains readable till the end. Some odd things have occurred in the trip, and marrying all the people, details, and enmeshing the issues involved etc is a challenge.
Amrita,
rahul-capri has already taken your cue.
Thank you all.
#13 Posted by baaghiraja on March 5, 2005 5:52:23 am
Hello Harish. This seemed tamer than the first part. An anti-climax of sorts. As if this time around you were far more concious about being a journalist. I compared it with a piece I did in 1992 on a trip I took across Pakistan`s Balochistan province and the Tribal areas and this seemed a lot more constrained and ``balanced.`` Like all good journalism?
rgds,
NfP
rgds,
NfP
#14 Posted by dost_mittar on March 5, 2005 7:39:09 am
I feel like I am riding with you on that pilion. I hope you wont leave Nagpur without meeting some of the followers of Hedgwar and Golwalkar.
On riots and Maharashtra. When the Godhra news reached us I expected a bloody backlash, but in Maharashtra and not in Gujarat. Especially, Bombay where Thakray`s sena always has its knives ready for such occasions. I also had a personal reason to be worried about Bombay. My wife was to leave for Bombay to meet her sister the next day and I wondered whether the plans should be changed. We called her sister and she was even more worried than us; she didn`t think it would be safe even for them to drive to the airport for a pick-up. So, we switched her plans to go to Delhi instead of Bombay. But Bombay surprised us in a pleasant way by staying calm.
On riots and Maharashtra. When the Godhra news reached us I expected a bloody backlash, but in Maharashtra and not in Gujarat. Especially, Bombay where Thakray`s sena always has its knives ready for such occasions. I also had a personal reason to be worried about Bombay. My wife was to leave for Bombay to meet her sister the next day and I wondered whether the plans should be changed. We called her sister and she was even more worried than us; she didn`t think it would be safe even for them to drive to the airport for a pick-up. So, we switched her plans to go to Delhi instead of Bombay. But Bombay surprised us in a pleasant way by staying calm.
#15 Posted by FarzanaVersey on March 5, 2005 10:30:20 am
Harish:
One more thing. I feel the time-gap has given it a different resonance. I cannot be certain, but had you written this soon after the incidents the angle might have been different, perhaps the voice a bit more assertive...
And do excuse me, but I need to handle this bloke!
[``But then this is an opinion of someone who does not believe in objectivity!``
At last !! Some honest introspection from FV-ji....]
Cut out the ``at last``. I have always maintained that even reportage, as opposed to opinions, invariably have a slant and it is not really possible to be objective. To my mind, it is not even desirable. So there is no new introspection here. You get what you get and some more...
One more thing. I feel the time-gap has given it a different resonance. I cannot be certain, but had you written this soon after the incidents the angle might have been different, perhaps the voice a bit more assertive...
And do excuse me, but I need to handle this bloke!
[``But then this is an opinion of someone who does not believe in objectivity!``
At last !! Some honest introspection from FV-ji....]
Cut out the ``at last``. I have always maintained that even reportage, as opposed to opinions, invariably have a slant and it is not really possible to be objective. To my mind, it is not even desirable. So there is no new introspection here. You get what you get and some more...
#16 Posted by satyamvada on March 5, 2005 3:08:26 pm
Harish and Dost-Mitter,
Can you please inform us as to how many Hindus and policement died in the
Gujarat riots ?
Thank you,
#17 Posted by harimau on March 5, 2005 5:34:48 pm
Ref satyamvada #16
[Harish and Dost-Mitter,
Can you please inform us as to how many Hindus and policement died in the
Gujarat riots ?]
None. Only Muslims die in Hindu-Muslim riots. I wouldn`t be surprised if in another 2 years, there is a finding by an inquiry commission that all the people who died in the Godhra train fire were Muslims.
[Thank you]
You are welcome.
PS. Shortly after the Gujarat riots, I had posted numbers that indicated that Hindus suffered more in proportion to their population compared to Muslims. However, don`t expect any Indian journalist to write anything except to tarnish the reputation of the country or to blame the Hindus.
Yo, Tahmed32, members of which religion died in the train fire at Godhra? Can you answer that question?
[Harish and Dost-Mitter,
Can you please inform us as to how many Hindus and policement died in the
Gujarat riots ?]
None. Only Muslims die in Hindu-Muslim riots. I wouldn`t be surprised if in another 2 years, there is a finding by an inquiry commission that all the people who died in the Godhra train fire were Muslims.
[Thank you]
You are welcome.
PS. Shortly after the Gujarat riots, I had posted numbers that indicated that Hindus suffered more in proportion to their population compared to Muslims. However, don`t expect any Indian journalist to write anything except to tarnish the reputation of the country or to blame the Hindus.
Yo, Tahmed32, members of which religion died in the train fire at Godhra? Can you answer that question?
#18 Posted by nb on March 5, 2005 5:38:18 pm
I went to Nagpur last year to visit my brother who`s doing his MD. the last time I went there was 14 years ago, when I did an exam there from neighbouring MP. Yes, the memories come back fast and furious.
Nagpur is/was Congress territory, but it is very Maharashtrian. In the area, you may be able to get away not speaking Marathi, but people do not open up to you as much if you don`t speak their language, as you discovered.
I am still surprised that people would actually say, chamar hain saala, but then, I believe the people most likely to talk like that are the completely rural and the OBCs, who had no seats reserved for them when I got into college(I think it was the last batch that happened).
Nagpur is/was Congress territory, but it is very Maharashtrian. In the area, you may be able to get away not speaking Marathi, but people do not open up to you as much if you don`t speak their language, as you discovered.
I am still surprised that people would actually say, chamar hain saala, but then, I believe the people most likely to talk like that are the completely rural and the OBCs, who had no seats reserved for them when I got into college(I think it was the last batch that happened).
#19 Posted by amrita on March 5, 2005 7:51:29 pm
Re: # 18
its nice to read you and rahul - i didnt go to the camp at kanya kumari, rahul but i did attend a first cousin and i agree - but as for the chamar hai saala remark: no, its not the rural crowd alone. one my classmates in college was a public school kid, obscenely rich and definitely urban and once he and his friend (also a fellow classmate and public school kid, obscenely rich and definitely urban) were dropping me somewhere and said almost the same thing. but they had the grace to look embarassed and the two of them gave me uneasy glances - but i have to wonder if they were embarrassed because of what they said or that i heard them. as it happened i didnt know back then what a `chamar` was (public school princess moi) so i asked them what it meant. it was a treat to see them fumble. :))
its nice to read you and rahul - i didnt go to the camp at kanya kumari, rahul but i did attend a first cousin and i agree - but as for the chamar hai saala remark: no, its not the rural crowd alone. one my classmates in college was a public school kid, obscenely rich and definitely urban and once he and his friend (also a fellow classmate and public school kid, obscenely rich and definitely urban) were dropping me somewhere and said almost the same thing. but they had the grace to look embarassed and the two of them gave me uneasy glances - but i have to wonder if they were embarrassed because of what they said or that i heard them. as it happened i didnt know back then what a `chamar` was (public school princess moi) so i asked them what it meant. it was a treat to see them fumble. :))
#20 Posted by masanamuthu on March 5, 2005 8:32:42 pm
what / who is a ``chamar``??..
I assume it`s a derogatory term used to refer to ``dalits``.. growing up in cities, i never heard these insults..
I`d be interested to know how many people died in the riots and the number of Hindus / policemen.. too..
I assume it`s a derogatory term used to refer to ``dalits``.. growing up in cities, i never heard these insults..
I`d be interested to know how many people died in the riots and the number of Hindus / policemen.. too..
#21 Posted by the_pentecost on March 5, 2005 10:21:44 pm
Hi! I am kind of new here. But has been coming and checking out interactions on this site from time to time because web pages from this site pop up while I am doing my internet research. I don’t know if this is the right way to ask this but I am just curious about the caste of the author Harish Nambiar? Is he a Nair from Kerala? This is just for some research I am doing for my mission. I might be wrong but I think the interactor with the handle – HARIMAU, had some very interesting comments on Nairs which has kind of peaked my interest in the Nair community of Kerala. If someone knowledgeable about castes from south india can give some details about the Nair caste that will be great.
Forgive me for my ignorance, I am just an ignorant ABCD from south India and this is just for our church missionary activity. We have been targeting the tribals in south India for our church but have lately started doing one-on-one with members of more forward type(is that the right term) castes here in US? I must confess that we are well short of our mission goals in India of 100 K per year saved souls for the Lord. Also I have been using the following books for our good work-
Caste and Tribes of Southern India by Edgar Thurston & K. Rangachari
Cochin Tribes and Castes.; An Anthropological and Sociological Analysis by Iyer, L. K. A
A History of South India: From Prehistoric Times to the Fall of Vijayanagar by Sastri, K. A. N.
Though the elaborate details about the caste dynamics in the above mentioned books have been really helpful, if anyone can recommend any other books which are better than these, that will be really appreciated. Thanks for all your help
You can send all information to –
the_pentecost2000@yahoo.com
Forgive me for my ignorance, I am just an ignorant ABCD from south India and this is just for our church missionary activity. We have been targeting the tribals in south India for our church but have lately started doing one-on-one with members of more forward type(is that the right term) castes here in US? I must confess that we are well short of our mission goals in India of 100 K per year saved souls for the Lord. Also I have been using the following books for our good work-
Caste and Tribes of Southern India by Edgar Thurston & K. Rangachari
Cochin Tribes and Castes.; An Anthropological and Sociological Analysis by Iyer, L. K. A
A History of South India: From Prehistoric Times to the Fall of Vijayanagar by Sastri, K. A. N.
Though the elaborate details about the caste dynamics in the above mentioned books have been really helpful, if anyone can recommend any other books which are better than these, that will be really appreciated. Thanks for all your help
You can send all information to –
the_pentecost2000@yahoo.com
#22 Posted by rahulmal on March 5, 2005 10:35:13 pm
How many people were killed? Mohd. Arif Khan answered this very well in a TV interview. He said that tragedy is complete even when a single life is lost, after that it is mere stats.
Anyway, in Godhara 59 people were charred. In the following riots 763 people lost their lives (200 killed in police firing).
http://mha.nic.in/annual-2002-2003/ch-1.pdf
Anyway, in Godhara 59 people were charred. In the following riots 763 people lost their lives (200 killed in police firing).
http://mha.nic.in/annual-2002-2003/ch-1.pdf
#23 Posted by avenger on March 5, 2005 10:57:19 pm
Pentecost...``I am just an ignorant ABCD from south India and this is just for our church missionary activity. We have been targeting the tribals in south India for our church but have lately started doing one-on-one with members of more forward type(is that the right term) castes here in US? I must confess that we are well short of our mission goals in India of 100 K per year saved souls for the Lord. Also I have been using the following books for our good work- ``
Haha...MISSIONARY ALERT !!! So tell me sir , how many times per week do you surrender your holy ar$e to the local pastor ? All in the service of the good lord , of course...
Haha...MISSIONARY ALERT !!! So tell me sir , how many times per week do you surrender your holy ar$e to the local pastor ? All in the service of the good lord , of course...
#24 Posted by dost_mittar on March 6, 2005 4:21:41 am
`chamar`
It seems that in some ways Indians seem to have become more polite if not more civilised. Back in the 60s, no less a person than Deputy Prime Minister Jagjivan Ram was routinely referred to as `that chamar minister` even in Delhi colleges.
It seems that in some ways Indians seem to have become more polite if not more civilised. Back in the 60s, no less a person than Deputy Prime Minister Jagjivan Ram was routinely referred to as `that chamar minister` even in Delhi colleges.
#25 Posted by stuka on March 6, 2005 8:49:57 am
``I must confess that we are well short of our mission goals in India of 100 K per year saved souls for the Lord. Also I have been using the following books for our good work- ``
What the hell? Dude, save souls here in the States. Please let our country be. And if that be too much for you, at least declare your intent honorably on the visa application so it can be denied. Most missionaries come on tourist visa and do missionary work. That`s illegal. And Pat Robertson makes a stink when a missionary is arrested and given a good thrashing by the police.
What the hell? Dude, save souls here in the States. Please let our country be. And if that be too much for you, at least declare your intent honorably on the visa application so it can be denied. Most missionaries come on tourist visa and do missionary work. That`s illegal. And Pat Robertson makes a stink when a missionary is arrested and given a good thrashing by the police.
#26 Posted by nb on March 7, 2005 2:05:33 am
Re: # 21
that should be piqued, not peaked.
are you for real?
that should be piqued, not peaked.
are you for real?
#27 Posted by HN on March 7, 2005 3:16:54 am
Nadeem,
I am really not seeking to either be balanced or unbalanced. I understand your saying this being a ``sellout`` to balance, since the first part was more charged and less politically correct. But, this work has its own form, and there will be the occassional slackness of pace. These are also the areas where the explications, digressions, and the foregrounding takes place.
Besides, I am awful at description of the outer landscape. That said, I have struggled to keep the theme throughout, even while on the road my anxiety was to get away from the theme. But please do stay.
Dost,
The third piece will be out soon. Thanks for sharing these personal nuggets.
Farzana,
This was written at an odd time, a time of spiritual fatigue. I do not want to sound rather insensitive, but I distinctly remember NOT wanting to discuss the riots, relive memories. And yet, they always intruded. I kept off newspapers throughout....or almost throughout.
I am staying off discussions raised by these pieces. That said I thank all who interract here, and I hope eventually at least some of the questions raised will be answered.
I do not want to get into a bulletted form of distillation of views, and their explication. The canvass, and the treatment of real life people and their responses, and in many cases theri bagrounds, will all hopefully coalesce into a vision and worldview that I hold.
HN
I am really not seeking to either be balanced or unbalanced. I understand your saying this being a ``sellout`` to balance, since the first part was more charged and less politically correct. But, this work has its own form, and there will be the occassional slackness of pace. These are also the areas where the explications, digressions, and the foregrounding takes place.
Besides, I am awful at description of the outer landscape. That said, I have struggled to keep the theme throughout, even while on the road my anxiety was to get away from the theme. But please do stay.
Dost,
The third piece will be out soon. Thanks for sharing these personal nuggets.
Farzana,
This was written at an odd time, a time of spiritual fatigue. I do not want to sound rather insensitive, but I distinctly remember NOT wanting to discuss the riots, relive memories. And yet, they always intruded. I kept off newspapers throughout....or almost throughout.
I am staying off discussions raised by these pieces. That said I thank all who interract here, and I hope eventually at least some of the questions raised will be answered.
I do not want to get into a bulletted form of distillation of views, and their explication. The canvass, and the treatment of real life people and their responses, and in many cases theri bagrounds, will all hopefully coalesce into a vision and worldview that I hold.
HN
#28 Posted by amrita on March 7, 2005 5:36:44 am
Re: # 24
dost mittar - i didnt know about the chamar minister tag but i did know of his habitual question - did you see the moorthi? - to all visitors. depending upon the dakshina you left, you could then talk to babuji.
dost mittar - i didnt know about the chamar minister tag but i did know of his habitual question - did you see the moorthi? - to all visitors. depending upon the dakshina you left, you could then talk to babuji.
#29 Posted by harimau on March 7, 2005 6:54:55 am
Ref nb #26
[Re: # 21
are you for real?]
Nope. It looks like a troll.
[Re: # 21
are you for real?]
Nope. It looks like a troll.
#30 Posted by ana on March 7, 2005 9:46:49 pm
harish,
am finally coming to this. i don`t know that it sounds more journalistic, but the silences are quite telling. . . i don`t know that you need to speak for the characters, or try to explain what they`re not speaking about. but i think i understand why you are doing that.
on a lighter note, i smiled upon reading that rohan mistakenly went to the ladies loo. i remember travelling with my parents and having to pee so badly i rushed into the first loo in sight which was the men`s loo. thankfully there were no men relieving themselves, and no people who yelled at me. :)
a little editing would help. and i look forward to reading more.
--ana
am finally coming to this. i don`t know that it sounds more journalistic, but the silences are quite telling. . . i don`t know that you need to speak for the characters, or try to explain what they`re not speaking about. but i think i understand why you are doing that.
on a lighter note, i smiled upon reading that rohan mistakenly went to the ladies loo. i remember travelling with my parents and having to pee so badly i rushed into the first loo in sight which was the men`s loo. thankfully there were no men relieving themselves, and no people who yelled at me. :)
a little editing would help. and i look forward to reading more.
--ana
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