Pakistan’s Software Industry

Re: # 103

Yes... and Hamidm is a Pakistani... with no Indian equivalent... certainly not you Alephnull... in the larger scheme of things, you are the equivalent of our captain clueless i.e. Romair.

Smoking is only banned in public places. You are still free to smoke. Cigarettes are still taxed. Those who work in cigarette factories pay their taxes as well. It`s a balance between public good and private choice that is seen in this example of yours.

Many people think that America needs to get rid of the drinking age if it wants to help decrease alcohol related problems. Banning is a rather stupid venture - And banning it based on religious doctrines is even more stupid. Just as you don`t ban kite flying because a few idiots use metal strings, you do`nt ban alcohol because some idiots drink and drive. By any chance, what are the statistics of alcohol related crimes in europe where there are no age restrictions?

You refuse to accept the fact that millions of Muslims want to drink. They want to drink so bad, they`ll risk drinking poison.

Smoking is only banned in public places. You are still free to smoke. Cigarettes are still taxed. Those who work in cigarette factories pay their taxes as well. It`s a balance between public good and private choice that is seen in this example of yours.

Many people think that America needs to get rid of the drinking age if it wants to help decrease alcohol related problems. Banning is a rather stupid venture - And banning it based on religious doctrines is even more stupid. Just as you don`t ban kite flying because a few idiots use metal strings, you do`nt ban alcohol because some idiots drink and drive. By any chance, what are the statistics of alcohol related crimes in europe where there are no age restrictions?

You refuse to accept the fact that millions of Muslims want to drink. They want to drink so bad, they`ll risk drinking poison.

Ajeya #96

You are evidently new here.

‘Horrible Hindoo’ is a long-running joke; its originator, hamidm, is a Chowk institution. He is the least delusional, most realistic of the Pakistanis here, and the one with the keenest eye for life’s absurdities. He’s one of the few Pakistanis who’ll never take offence if an Indian lists the long catalog of his countrymens’ delinquencies, never turn around and call you a hatemonger etc. If you’re upset by his references to ‘heeng smelling horrible Hindoos’, the ‘hordes of Hanuman’, etc., wait until you see him tearing into the pathetic Pakis and the maniacal Muslims. He manages to do it all with humour, verve, style, panache; and he never takes himself too seriously. He really deserves honorary horrible Hindoo status – he’s far too sane to be Pakistani.

Anil’s post #75 is a good example of how much colonialism and feudal influences have taken innovativeness away from our people and governments.
I will come to it later but I think the consensus seems to be that manufacturing is really the way to go, if both India and Pakistan are looking to improve conditions in two countries.
The question really is whether both countries have the ability to pick and choose the way they wanna go in economic planning?
All third world economies are beggarly economies. They feed off the handouts by the Western economies. The West decides what needs to be handed out and the third world countries that stand outside the door with their empty hats take whatever they get and live off that. Very few disciplined countries have turned those handouts in to a meaningful economic growth.
The current global economy is a continuation of the old colonialism. Two hundred years ago, the West had physically occupied the countries. After the second WW, instead of physical occupation they invited permanent guest workers to help them with manufacturing. First Europe experimented with it and then the US got in line after it fixed its civil rights issue that was the biggest hurdle in getting qualified help.
The West did not think thru the guest worker concept and after 3 or 4 decades of living with the guest workers, first Europe and now the US have felt that, the guest workers from Asia just don’t fit in their cultural environments.
The new mantra of Globalization is just another extension of the same old colonialism. The West now is not ready to accept any more permanent guest workers. Instead, if you are willing to integrate your economy with the Western economies, the west will send some business your way that should take care of the educated middle class in the third world countries.

A manufacturing worker making $70k in the US is much more important for the economy than the worker making $10 per hour is. The 70K worker buys houses, buys 401k and still have some residual income to support the retail business. What a $10 worker offers? Nothing! He/she cannot even pay rent if they live in some metro area. So, it is easy to send the $10 job away than the $70k job. Expecting that the West would invest in manufacturing in the third world countries is a pipedream.
One more issue. GM and Ford opened their plants in Mexico. How many managers in those plants are Mexicans? It is the quality control and work ethics issue and that goes back to anil’s post.
Just think about it, if car manufacturing were sent to India or Pakistan, the car prices in the US would tumble right away. But even Japan brings its manufacturing to the US instead of India, Pakistan and other Asian countries for the simple reason that the quality that is needed to sell a car in the US, cannot be achieved or maintained in India or Pakistan because the work ethics are not up to snuff.

Re: # 95

``manto is an anti-Islam bigot``

Yes... anyone who disagrees with Malik99 is an ANTI-ISLAM bigot.

Malik99 just keeps on proving he is stupid and lacks reading comprehension skills. Why would I, who doesn`t drink, advocate drinking, if it were inspired by anything other than my commitment to Pakistan`s future.

Pakistan already has alcohol... lots and lots of it. Just ask Stuka how easy it was for him to get it. The only thing your BAN has done, is keep the tourist away... and encourage bootlegging. So ... you have not been able to eradicate ``sin`` ... but you have created avenues for a new crime.

It is not a question of emulation. It is a question of hypocrisy. People like you are happy to be hypocrites at the cost of Pakistan`s tourism industry.

rozaiba writes ```you are free to live and harm yourself if you so choose, no one will stop you- but evidence suggests your action also harms someone else and so you should not smoke in some places!```

rozaiba, your argument is not coming through. Neither it is backed by stats that show that drunk drivers kill more people than second hand smoke. So if smoking can be banned per JS Mills argument, why not alcohol?

And, alcohol is not just a matter of personal choice. It impacts a society. Go to the website www.madd.org and you will learn about the ameircan mothers who have lost their children to drunk driving, or when drunk drivers hit them.

malik99:

you are conveniently overlooking the state of affairs in the west vis a vis anti smoking campaigns etc.

the anti smoking campaigns are a direct result of a free thinking process oriented society. the very fact that smoking is banned in public places would reaffirm JS Mills arguments -

`you are free to live and harm yourself if you so choose, no one will stop you- but evidence suggests your action also harms someone else and so you should not smoke in some places!`

As for alcohol in the west, I am pretty sure I`ve had more exposure to the wild side of American academia to see that the drinking age laws only enhances alcohol related crimes.

Anyhow, the point is that freedom of choice is a must. People want to drink in Pakistan. Drinking is not a western import by the way. Only someone like Hamza Yousuf would argue that it`s a `western product`. It`s always been around (read any poem). Anyhow, there is more harm in banning it (hundreds dying of unregulated manufactured alcohol) than letting it flow. So statistically (as well as with respect to freedom) it makes sense to legalize alcohol.

Romair ##:

Yes, I was the first investor in Serus, and subequently helped it grow.

You are quite correct, that after 9/11 and Enron/MCI compliance became very big opportunity, many banks and institutions had to cut capital investments elsewhere to fund these efforts. Sarbanes Oxley and others that you mentioned have been the drivers. There is no off-the-shelf solution. Most are customized soluitions and Indian software industry has benefitted from it. The customization is because almost all corporate implementations were unique which required unique approach. Another big opportunity in the U.S. banking and financial industry is in Check 21 Act to make online banking easier and clearing of checks on the basis of scanned checks alone.

Management and Maintenance of Software Life Cycle; Rented Software Solutions for Enterprises on turn key basis; Real-time management of exposure and risks in manufacturing, and retail industry; Securing, tracking and protecting food chain from the plate to the field as mandated by Homeland Secuirty Act, and other Applications for SME (Small and Medium Enterprises) are some of the growth opportunities.

It is quite difficult to get VC funding, because lot of innovation is coming from college dorms of reputable schools, as a result early stage funding is almost non-existant. However, subsequent stages, like ``taking it to market``, and funding growth of profitable ventures are indeed getting funded. Also, getting funded are backbone infrastructure to integrate and move offshore. Generally these break even or profitable companies are consolidated in the U.S. and, for example, integrated with Indian companies, which are public there and provide a clear cookie-cutter exit strategy for VCs.

Personally, I am impressed by the software solutions that have started to come out of India. Russian companies have come up with interesting technologies, but most lack applications, as if developed in lab with no solution in mind.

Another, interesting area that I have seen emerging is downloadable games for cell phones. This area, I believe, is still catered and will be catered by entreprenuers. I know a group of spirited software guys in Poona developing games which Nokia is going to market. Animation is another sihnificant opportunity, for it, there is a significant market in India`s Bollywood as well.

Anil Kapuria

Re: # 56

Actually, the peaceful and constructive thing would have been to let bygones be bygones.
Although the faults are not exactly 50-50 as muslims like to portray them as (not even close), still for the sake of peace, one has to be strong, and forgive and forget. Only if it had stopped.

But it`s going on today! Mushu arms, aids, and abets the terrorists through his ``moral support``, our countrymen are butchered every day, and I hear comments like ``horrible hindoos`` with not a peep from you guys, or anybody else! Shame on you.

How many Chowk members have you seen discussing the despicable way terrorists are killing innocents in their ``freedom struggle``? But I do constantly hear comments such as ``horrible hindoos``.

So, to answer your question - THAT`s the point in metioning it in a IT industry-related discussion.

rozaiba - Unfortunately you have bought into the useless rhetoric and noise by mantolives.

You see, I have not ONCE mentioned religion or, as you put it, the ``seventh century`` ideal in articulating my stance on alcohol. But since manto is an anti-islam bigot, he readily brings in his pet ``mullah``, ``islam``, ``hamza yusuf`` etc into every single discussion, whether it fits the argument or not.

My stance is simple and is based on my observation of the havoc that alcohol has caused in US. As I pointed out earlier, 50% of all traffic related fatalities, and 40% of all domestic abuse is linked to alcohol in US. There are more stats on alcohol that I can provide, related to the cost to the medicare and social services, but I don`t have the motivation to look them up. But I am sure you are well aware of those.

Secondly, as for JS Mill`s stance on liberty and freedom of person choice, Rozaiba sahib, I ask you to come visit New York city where you will be considered a pariah if you are a smoker and where smoking is banned in all public places. The point being that the independent and free american public has decided that smoking is not in the best interest of their nation - regardless of what messer JS Mill muses. That is a FREE minded decision. The stance that manto represents is ANYthing but free. Heck, it even lacks logic.

Similarly, in small counties and towns, stricter anti-alcohol laws are being passed and I would not be surprised if somewhere in the not so distant future, american public decides that alcohol has more negatives than positives puts (once again) and end to it.

My point is this, if we have to monkey the west, why don`t we import their work ethics, and their quest for knowledge and healthy environment? Why must it be alcohol?

Manto:

I am sure that once one reads JS Mill, one will automatically realize the logic and simplicity of his arguments and be able to contrast it with the faulty logic of those who claim that humanity was at it`s peak in the 7th century and that acts of injustice cannot are license for suppressing the right for personal choice.

Re: # 91

Now he is going to accuse you of being a enslaved mind to the west...

Had he read J S Mill... do you think he would be equating Child exploitation to harmless drinking?

Malik99:

Islam and morality should take a backseat when it comes to matters of personal choice. What is more important to you, JS Mill`s concepts of liberty and freedom:

1) freedom to think what you want
2) freedom to act upon what you think
3) freedom to have mutually consentual relationships with whoever you want

as long as you do not physically harm someone else.

or

do you prefer to limit choice like you sound you do?

Malik99:

Islam and morality should take a backseat when it comes to matters of personal choice. What is more important to you, JS Mill`s concepts of liberty and freedom:

1) freedom to think what you want
2) freedom to act upon what you think
3) freedom to have mutually consentual relationships with whoever you want

as long as you do not physically harm someone else.

or

do you prefer to limit choice like you sound you do?