Pakistan’s Software Industry

Re: # 240 tahmed

``India is neutralized as a military threat ``

I hope Romair has read this. Earlier he was having hallucinations regarding Indian military buildup.

#226

{{As I said, there are hundreds of unsung heroes in Pakistan who built this bomb as a great team effort. Even the national leaders - despite their many failings - were united on this one project. Pakistan would have built this bomb with or without Khan. Like the Manhatten Project (which resulted in the US bomb, and which of course was the real breakthrough, being the very first one), this project serves as an example of what Pakistanis are capable of when they set their minds to it.}}

Here is what a long-time Pakistan-watcher had to say about the ‘Pakistani’ bomb (emphases mine):

[… this program attempts to match India, but that it is also to project a] ``sought-for image of Pakistan as combining Islam and technology, (even if) most of the technology was either stolen from a European nuclear facility or provided by China``. … [This] ``nuclear program warped judgments about Pakistan`s real strengths and weaknesses. The truth was that Pakistan`s bomb program was a triumph of espionage and assistance from a friendly power, not the product of a technologically advanced state. For purposes of deterrence and war fighting the difference is unimportant, but in the context of Pakistan`s deeper security, political, and social problems, the bomb made it possible to perpetuate the delusion that this was a technologically advanced country. The bomb was thought of as a magic bullet that could resolve any problem. It even united Pakistanis politically`` [as a symbol of defiance of both India and the West—there was no limit to what the country could do.]

The same comments would also apply to ‘Pakistani’ missiles – once again provided, or their acquisition facilitated, by the selfsame friendly power. The Pakistani mindset referred to is somewhat relevant in the context of discussions on this board.

Tahmed...

Future attitude of Indians towards Pakistan will be shaped by Pakistan`s attitude towards India. Forget Kashmir , convert LOC into IB , get the ISI to stop its anti-India activity. And then, we will certainly have a semblance of peace.

The Indian obsession with Pakistan - is same as what used to be America`s obsession with Hitler`s Germany and later with the USSR. Pakistan is like this monkey armed with a pistol
threatening to shoot you...hard to ignore. But the moment the monkey puts the pistol away, nobody cares what it does then..whether it jumps around or fondles itself or whatever...


Guys like Amit and Dost-Mittar with their lovely tales of economic co-operation , trade and a common EU like South Asian block serve a purpose too...they are trying their level best to lure the monkey into putting away the pistol by dangling a banana before it....

But once the monkey puts away the pistol, we can get back to serious business- competing with China for a chunk of the US/EU market....

As the Newsweek report which I have posted in this thread earlier says, if India gets its stuff together (a final adieu to Chacha Nehru`s policies), our exports - now worth $70 billion will cross $300 billion in no time at all...

tahmed # 226 writes ``Pakistan would have built this bomb with or without Khan``

With half-assed arguments like these, no wonder manto is nodding his heading on everthing you dole out. Why don`t we extend your argument to everything else, and stop giving credit to people:

- The theory of relativity would have been theorized, with or without Einstein. Wonder why everyone is going goo goo ga ga over einstein!

- Pakistan would have been created, with or without Jinnah. There goes manto`s life time of misquoting and misinterpreting Jinnah`s speeches

All these damn noble prizes in Physics and Chemistry are such a waste. After all, per your thesis, the discoveries in these fields would have been eventually made anyways at some other point.

Horror of horrors, my take on AQ Khan is in line with Hamidm`s!

Re: # 229

``And, Midday? Never heard much of that paper ``

Its a afternoon paper from Mumbai, mostly read by college students. The jaw-dropping snaps of ``mid-day mate`` was good enough for youngsters to buy it.
Here is the link, http://web.mid-day.com

#235 by Mantolives on March 15, 2005 6:07am PT


Yes... arjunM... That is exactly what I meant... Times of India is also a tabloid when it publishes something good about Pakista


no need to get your undies in a knot...Mid-day IS an actual tabloid, as opposed to the Times of India which is a broadsheet...

Take a look at their web-site...The title says ``Mumbai on the web``...It IS a tabloid and it is a bombay only newspaper...which is why nobody outside bombay has heard of it....


It is the same way some of the leading constitutional experts and historians become ``obscure``... and how foreign journalists are put on ISI payroll....


That seervai(?) guy IS obscure...no two ways about it....just because he said something about jinnah doesn`t make him famous...you can ask aakar patel about it if you want...

I don`t know about the ISI payroll, but the reporter who gave you the numbers for Israel`s IT exports might be on mossad`s....

re: Jay# 219

As Ronald Reagan once said, ``there you go again...`` lol

Ciao

Re: # 233

Closet-Mullah32 is a ``balanced human being``???? :)) Sure - and my aunt is Queen Victoria.

Jeez man, Manto!!! You too smoking afgan grass??

Re: # 230 Manto

I am sure Midday exists and is a fine newspaper .... and I am sure Akar Patel is a real journalist. I am sure his description of wide roads and clean city of Lahore is also true.

And that`s what is making Indians jealous. See - indians can`t build modern cities, airports or anything else. Anytime they set out to do so - commies and freaks will howl and dance like fools. Take for example - Mumbai. The elected CM of that state decided to modernize and make a Shanghai out of it. The PM was all for it. But commies and that italian b**** would have nothing of it. The b**** made a phone call and rest is history. That`s end of dream of Modern City of Mumabi.

Take example of Blore. The city generates $Bns of revenue. But has no airport worth the name. Indians have been trying and hoping to get a modern airport there for last 10 years. But nope - hasn`t happened. And will not happen in any foreseeable future. But look at lahore - a city in backwaters and yet has modern airport.

ylh #233 Thanks for the generous words. I dont think Pakistan has any shortage of good people and despite all our hand-wringing the fact is that our leaders (despite their other failings) have managed to ``steer the ship`` through some very troubled waters in the past couple of decades and into safe harbor. Things are indeed beginning to look very good for Pakistan and the rest of the region today, and with a few more good years I have no doubt Pakistan will once again be back on the track it was in the 1960`s when it was considered the model developing country.

This is of course most important, given the need to ensure all Pakistanis one day have the good life that people like you and myself have been blessed with. India is neutralized as a military threat as we have been discussing (and hopefully will emerge as a close friend in the years ahead - with Dost Mittar and Amit representing the future attitude of Indians towards Pakistan, not some of the other posters on chowk who represent the group that is incapable of anything but spite). The middle east seems ready for a renaissance (or kifayah, as they are calling it), afghanistan is charging ahead politically and economically, and it is a question of time before the wave of chinese prosperity pushes westwards to areas adjoining pakistan. And we have our own internal awareness thanks to a large pakistani expatriate community. So, things have never looked better for the millions who are less fortunate than you and I in Pakistan.

I am of course myself not actively involved in Pakistani politics or government affairs, nor do i think there is any shortage of better men than myself for the job but thanks for the kind words in any case. But there are things one can do outside the government in the private or ngo sector that directly helps make things a little better in Pakistan. That is an area where I have done some work in the past and who knows - maybe some of the things I am trying to today will lead to some new links being established in Pakistan a few years from now.

Sorry for the lengthy post.

Shridar.....

The days of dalits being discriminated against are long over. These days it pays to be a dalit in India- what with 50% reservation in colleges/jobs and so on....So the whole idea of a dalit revolt against the Indian state is rubbish because...dalits practically rule the Indian state today....

Consider the state of Karnataka...of the 38 serving IAS officers belonging to the Karnataka cadre ....there are 2 brahmins , 8 Scheduled Castes , 3 Tribals, 12 other backward castes (OBC)...

Visit any government office - electricity board, water board, housing board- majority of the staffers will be from scheduled castes and tribes, and from other backward castes....brahmins are suddenly an endangered species in India`s bureaucracy...as well as in the political class...

my problem with aq khan,

.............. look, it is inconceivable that aq khan was giving away or selling nuclear secrets without the full knowledge and active participation of the military - someone has to be the fall guy and he probably deserves it as much as anyone else ...........

............ as for him being a hero and all that , we all know that he is not a scientist but he does seem to be a man who can get the job done and like rudy guliani - another crook - he happened to be at the right place at the right time ............ i am sure his initial ``contribution`` of stolen plans helped him get to the top of the heap .......... he is obviously a good entrepreneur and an excellent manager who should be put in charge of software development in pakistan while he is serving ``time`` in his mansion in banni galla ...............

............and that brings me to the problem that i personally have with him - the man is just another corrupt bureaucrat, a thief and an environmental terrorist who requisitioned pristine land that was ear marked for a national park to build his mansion ........other thieves and charlatans followed to build their monstrous houses with stolen or ``powder`` money .............. he has ruined the beautiful view across rawal lake, polluted the water with sewage and run-off, killed fish, and created an eyesore on the shores of the place where, as children, we used to go to swim and as pre-adults went for all sorts of adult entertainment that would qualify us for immediate floggings, stonings and beheadings in the new islamic republic ................. now it is heart-breaking to look across the lake and see urban squalor ....... the man deserves to die for that, regardless of what he did or did not do for the nuclear program ................ i say, ship him to guantanamo !

Re: # 231

No amit is actually a secret ISI agent working under cover...or maybe he is an Islamic fundamentalist...he certainly can`t be Indian... because he has offended rsidhar...just like I certainly can`t be a Muslim... because I have offended Malik99...

amit ...don`t you know better than to offend the high priests of patriotism.

re:#221 by Prashant???
Indian muslims have been unable to join the mainstream in India. I have often talked about the ``ghettoization`` of these muslims. You can often see them doing unproductive work and are very prone to fundamentalist idologies.
It is also the failure of the Indian democrazy to benefit these people. We are talking about IT in this thread (though it has veered far away from the topic) but how many muslims in India are benefitting from IT?
Blacks in US have been successfully integrated into the society. It is hard to even imagine that even 50 years ago they had no voting right and 100 years ago, racism was rampant in USA. This turnabout came when liberal attitudes and free press defeated the ideologies that kept racism going in US.
Can similar thing happen in India? I do not see any big fight against corruption and rights of the minorities? What about the rights of the Dalits? There are 100 million of them socially ostracised by most Indians. You need to fear what will happen once these people rise up in revolt against the Indian state.
Sridhar

Re: # 232

Yes... arjunM... That is exactly what I meant... Times of India is also a tabloid when it publishes something good about Pakistan... Hindustan Times is also a tabloid when something good is published about Pakistan... and even the Hindu becomes a rabid bigoted Muslim fundamentalist paper when something good is published about Pakistan..

It is the same way some of the leading constitutional experts and historians become ``obscure``... and how foreign journalists are put on ISI payroll....

It is all the same.

Ofcourse... they all totally redeem themselves and become the holy scriptures when they bash Pakistan....

This is how life is!

harish-thick-hide: Since you seem so eager to have a ``discussion`` with me, I went back and read your previous post to see what ``facts`` you are talking about and see that what you are saying is that the Pakistan military was aware of Khan`s doings. This point has already been raised by urstruly, and I acknowledged that. So nothing new or enlightening in what you are saying.

Why is it so hard for you to recognize that the reason I dont want to waste time with you is not that I am shaking with fear at your chowk posts?? I have seen you contribute nothing but hot air and bluster and abusive language - and ``paki-bashers`` (from the safety of the internet) like you are a dime a dozen on chowk. Second and last post to you. I have no interest in your views or in wasting more time with you.