Sense and Sensibility

Harish:

Of course I grudge you this bit of luck...but I wish you loads of it in other ways.

My reference to `staying` was quote the opposite of what you understood...I was insisting that I`d stay even if you did not ask me to after my kind of response. I guess my communication skills are poorer than I imagined them to be. I have increasingly begun to believe that writing is the worst thing to happen to any decent human being, and one is not even sure what a decent human is these days...sorry about this rant...personal angst...should have waited to post later, but do I know when to stop?

Yes, there is a lot more to Sufism, to everything...there is too much knowledge out there.

- - -

The water of life, that keeps life, and helps in survival and existence, is not the same as quenching one`s thirst...the latter is an immediate TEMPORARY need. All luxuries do not need mulling over...

Farzana,

That was a perceptive response allright. I need to catch up a lot on sufism. And I am sure you would not grudge me a bit of luck...:)

Sorry for reaching here late.

And my constant seeking people to stay is rather shameless soliciting...I am feeling a little embarrassed about too!

HN

Re: # 18 FarzanaVersey

[... when we talk of a series such as this, it is not meant for immediate reaction. It is the difference between rushing to a tap to quench your thirst or sitting with a glass of wine and mulling over something. Both are important.]

So we need one for life and survival itself while the other is a luxury we can occasionally indulge in! I hear you, or is that the sound of inadvertent tripping!

Let me get this out of the way first...

BeeJay:

Harish may agree with your suggestions, but he is nobody`s fool...sexy IITs (apt, no doubt). His titles are no less a come-on...
``Intimacies remapped``...not intimacy, but intimacies mind you...kis ki intimacies, kaisee intimacies...how are they being remapped? Where are the lines being drawn?
`The Covered trucks``...what is going on beneath the covers? On a journey, everyone knows about trucks and truck-drivers...
``Manto strikes``...Manto is well-known Urdu writer of sensual short stories...what is he doing in an Indian travelogue...how does he strike?
``An Iranian Exile in Sambhalpur``...it has the same effect as saying a Hindu exile in Balochistan...
``Sense and sensibility``....is there some Victorian action going on here?

So...okay, to get serious, when we talk of a series such as this, it is not meant for immediate reaction. It is the difference between rushing to a tap to quench your thirst or sitting with a glass of wine and mulling over something. Both are important. As one who has often erred on the side of sensational headlines, let me tell you that no one stays to interact unless they want to say something, relevant or irrelevant. Often boards take a life of their own.
- - -
Harish:

I found this episode the most spare and therefore sharp in your series. Please to note, I do not agree that you should add too many details unless the character lies in the details. I think the effpot to keep it lean is very rewarding. Externals would not add to say, Bhaskar, in any way. He stands out because he stands alone. I liked the way you brought out the confusion. Personally, I think what he was doing is merely evolving in his rudimentary fashion. Perhaps he had internalised the dictates of the marketplace without realising it...the `thanda matlab Coca Cola` ishtyle.

As for using contemporary `positions` for Radha-Krishna, I think it is extending the ras-leela metaphor.

Trying to fit in 62 positions in 24 panels would requre HIM to make important judgements based on his emotive and technical response.

And whether you ask me to stay or not, I plan to do so...sometimes I will say something, sometimes, I will keep quiet...in my case if I want you to know what I think I will have to speak :)

PS: You are one lucky bloke, the way it is decided to retain the virginity of your board! I am sorry to rupture the purity for a bit...Sufism and the Bhakti movements may see god as the beloved, but in the Geet Govindam it is the lover seen as omnipotent, eternal and subsuming; in the former god/godliness manifests itself in some form of `prayer`, in the latter it is an offering of the succulence of the two beings who get elevated on account of their `belovedness`. My two bits...now this board can get back its chastity belt...

dost, kaalchakra,

Methink I too agree! Like they too much agreement kills a chat. In this case, it is desirable by popular vote. Thanks. Yes, some board will spring up where Sufism can be discussed more easily and naturally.

kakolukiyum,

Thanks for reading. You had a very scenic route. The Himalayas is nothing short of a mind altering drug!

BeeJay,

Thanks!...Sounds like you are making an offer I must not refuse...:) Would love to hear similar alternative titles for the rest of the chapters.


HN

Harish,

Great series so far. I once went on a bike trip from Aligarh to Ladakh via C`garh, on through Rohtang and then onto Leh. This was during the 90`s.....when UP was not exactly the quietest of places. Interesting journey.

HN:

Thanks HN. I agree with kaalchakra. This is really peripheral to your article and the discussion on sufism could be postponed for another day.
Look forward to your next article.

There is a need for re-evaluating every word we have been/ are reguarly told about `Sufism,` of course, including the association made here.

But that`s part of a larger, separate discussion of the origins, forms, and functions of this ``ism`` in both current and historical (Indian) subcontinent.

HN writes with great beauty, and so much more easily than I ever could. His others readers deserve an opportunity to enjoy his work, without getting bogged down in an issue peripheral to this article.

dost,

As I currently understand it, Khayyam`s ...perhaps less known precurcurs exist...excitement in Islamic theology...is that they inverted the cup...as it were...they used the TWO main blasphemous objects of a male dominated Islam...Women and Wine...into allegories of the spiritual. Thinking of God as a woman...or the devotee as woman.,..is a lesser issue...to my mind...but what it did in effect is let lose the cats among the pigeons.

Using the two holy relics of traditional Islam...wine and woman...not merely as the second and lesser half of procreation...but as both euqally intoxicating...another no no...is what Sufism among other things is about. This is reminiscent of Hindu mysticism...where we have Gods who not only do lot of things that are blasphemous...but desire pleasures not only of the senses...as in women...but also intoxicants as abetors of the the project of seeking.

The only resonnaces in recent history...recent as in After Prophets Stopped Being Born...is the flower children...and the rest of the gang.

harish - no, I read much the same thing elsewhere. The only name though that I can come up with off the top of my head is Gita Mehta and ironically she was talking about the geeta govinda and the temple at Puri. I havent really read much scholarly writings on the sufi-bhakti link though.

kaalchakra,

Thanks. I appreciate your graciousness. Thank you. Hope you stay.

dost,

This entire concept of God as a sexual other...comes from a more conservative Koranic idea that is much prevalent that woman was inferior. The idea od using exactly the TWO things that is dangerously un Koranic...wine and woman ...is the departure is it not?

Khayyam`s ...anhd later Ghalib`s....are essentiually a mysticism that is akin to that old Islamic fable of Al Al haq?

I am very ignorant. I am merely throwing my opinions on the basis of my seriously disjointed readings.....

Thnaks.

HN

HN:
Very informative. Thanks for taking us to places we know little about, but apparently not unknown to the arty tourists.
I always knew Orissa was poor but the contrast with Gujarat came into focus during the Earthquake there which came soon after the floods in Orissa. While one could see small towns Gujaratis removing TVs and referigerators from their destroyed homes, affected people in Orissa seemed to have nothing except their almost bare bodies. A perverse indicator of poverty is the electricity supply, the less interruptions in the supply of electricity, the less developed the state is.

``The concept of God venerated as a woman is a very sufi concept.``

...and I always thought that sufis thought of themselves as females in love with their male God.

HN

I respectfully disagree. This is a minor point in your article, so we can let the claim, entirely mistaken, IMO, stand.

Harish,

Good point about those condiments.

It is amazing how some people can immerse themselves into a totally enriching environment, yet remain absolutely impervious to it!

In view of the large number of very informative (as well as sensitively done) pieces of work that this Chowk site carries, and the “overwhelming” response from this Chowk crowd (sometimes known as the intellectual quintessence of “Give Me Your Tired, Poor and Huddled Masses”) to most of such articles, I believe the above statement is also applicable to Chowkies at large. There are exceptions, of course (like me, for example!).

You see, Harish, it is all about how one labels a product! You called this piece “Sense and Sensibility” and that kept a LOT of people away (you may even have set in place a process of serious alienation for some folks).

All you had to do was to come up with a more exciting name like, for example, “How Krishna Played Radha…” and watched those interacts light up!

And while I am going strong at it, here are my alternate title suggestions for the others parts in your list:

Original Title	Revised Title
Part 1: Intimacies Remapped	Shakir, the Muslim who Never Showed Up…
Part 2: The Covered Trucks	Those Cowering Muslims…
Part 3: Manto Strikes	Heat, Smoke, and FIRE…
Part 4: An Iranian Exile in Sambhalpur	Speaking of Token Muslims…

Now, that ought to provide you with a “BeeJ” of an idea!

Sincerely,
BeeJay.

t,

:)

kaalchakra,

By the eleventh century Bhakti had moved upwards and Sufi had slipped eastwards on the subcontinent. Geet Govind was written in the twelth century...and the influences have been commented upon. The concept of God venerated as a woman is a very sufi concept. And in the bhakti tradition too ...like Tukaram.

BeeJay,

Intellectual curiosity is a bit like desire is it not? One cannot always satisfy it. Otherwise it is called instant gratification. I was struck by the man`s early mortification remaining intact till the end of hos stay...when all those colourful condiments were what his host`s family was having for breakfast, lunch and dinner! I would imagine...I would have fingered, touched, smelled those bottles!

Regarding the IIT test being India`s sexiest...well high premium on achievement and promise...is also sexy...isn`t it?

Feroz,

Thank you. That is one of my intentions. To give a bhelpuri picture of India, connected by a theme of one crack in social structure, and juxtapositioning it against the urban experience. Do stay. And do stay...

amrita,

Thank you for your confidence in me! The next episode does have a bit of playoff. And I am mulling over your suggestion. As very say in India...I am taking that very seriously, Please to note!

rozaiba,

That is what I thought will be of value...taking the sights beyond nationally held positions into the arena where these issues are actually playing out. A glimpse of Indian Pax urbana beyond Bombay Airport, Chandni Chowk, and Infosys Headquarters...the temples of modern India`s tourism!

And yes there were messes, but none that could not be cleaned up before the inspectors arrived!

Cheers.

HN

Through your roadtrips we are witnessing informative insights to parts of India we normally wouldn’t bother to consider.
Krishna and Radha depicted playing cricket was hilarious.
A query: throughout this trip, weren’t there incidents where you totally messed up or ended up looking like a fool? Just wondering.