The State of the World and other ruminations

Tupac,

I have not yet read the article. But I wanted to beat T-bhai to it!

Therefore, welcome to chowk!

Sincerely,
Beej.

i have been coming across people saying its the punishment of God ...an example for us to straighten up.......thats not how the justice mechanism of god operates......God wont kill innocent people and children just for the sake of setting an example.....the thought is agonizing.....the wrath of god wont fall on the innocent.......people like who survived or escaped are not pious or blessed.....just lucky.......so quit giving these dogmatic explainations
ammara

``Every now and then something like Gujarat happens and there’s much pious hand-wringing (by those with some iota of a conscience – not counting the fascists here) – but no questioning of when and how such violence became thinkable, possible – who these people are, what is it about the way things are organized that makes this possible. Why didn’t Kerala and West Bengal have communal violence when socialism held sway there? Why is it that the minute privatization comes in, these places one imagined as enlightened havens become communal?``

Tito`s Yugoslavia was peaceful too. Once he died it was a different story.

1) Just as there are flaws in the communist/maoist models, there are flaws in the capitalist model. And it is not clear that corporate hegemony is any worse than politburo hegemony, if not outright better.

2) All religions and nationalities the same in how they organize collective action? Or, even in the nature of the collective actions they mostly focus on organizing?

That again seems more like an assumption than an issue that you have empirically investigated.

3) Nations and religions are not the same (despite what a few of our Israeli and Pakistani friends might tell us). Nationalism and religionism have different dynamics and very very different consequences. The only people who are unable to see the stark differences are the terrorists and their supporters (including many communists).

Tupac Amaru:
What you have said is what everyone knows, we all do. The good you did by saying it and no doubt saying it well. However What is required and required badly, is not the repeated saying of existing facts, rather giving ways out of it.

Your piece is incomplete, you dont tell us which way do u think can be one of the, or the one way out? Solutions, fellow sollutions is what is needed.

Reading you was good, but the aftereffects were no good. One feels miserable and lost. ``what to do then...??`` you are not showing a way out, rather taking us all to a dead end and then, more hopeless than any one else, you too ``frown``..

what is the difference between you and others. calling yourself Tupac Amaru or at least using this ID has to have something within too... Too emtpy for the name you have chossen fellow!

This load of BS might have more credibility IF the author hadn`t extolled the exposed liar, Rigoberta Menchu, as an exemplar of something-lefty-or-the-other. Far from being oppressed by anybody, certainly not whites, she is the child of extreme privilege who just likes to lie to create a glamourous past for herself... the better to fool ``useful idiots`` with. Also, a main leader of the indigenous Zapatistas, is, of course, a son of privilege and not exactly a member of the downtrodden and oppressed.

Of course, given the stupid moniker the author has chosen for himself, what do you expect? I agree with Aarya: ``too empty.``

``much of Latin America, Africa and Asia have been slowly dying under the hegemonic imperative to “liberalize” their markets via forced indebtedness, giving corporate interests, via the World Bank, ownership of the world’s resources.``

Hmm,I would say much of Asia has been blossoming ``under the hegemonic imperative to ``liberalize````. You could look at the growth rates of the ``Asian Tigers``, India, China etc in the last 20 years.
(``Liberalize`` of course is a vague term which could mean different things to different people, I`m assuming you mean ``Lower Tariffs, Opening up the countries to more international trade, Governments getting out of the business of business`` ).
(There are about 56 countries in Africa and about 20 countries in Latin America, not knowing if any liberalization occured in any/all of those countries and what were the consequences, I would not like to debate about them, except to say you`re probably painting with very broad strokes)

``Why didn’t Kerala and West Bengal have communal violence when socialism held sway there? Why is it that the minute privatization comes in, these places one imagined as enlightened havens become communal?``

A. Are you saying that Kerala and West Bengal are less socialistic now?
B. Are you saying that they are more communal?

Both these claims are debatable and the link between the two even more so. Even if we allow that both of these claims are true, what is the evidence that A led to B? This is similar to the reasoning

A. I did not brush my teeth this morning.
B. I won a lottery today
ergo, Not brushing your teeth leads you to winning lotteries.

``Why forget Cuba and what Kerala used to be?``

Yes, let us not forget cuba, where the citizens try to flee the country even if it means they risk losing their lives trying to do it.

``I believe that organizing mass action along the lines of religious and national identity is fundamentally and unequivocally bad``

but it is ok and beneficial to do the same against ``Corporate Hegemony`` ?

``instead of learning from and joining these people who have managed to organize across religious lines against corporate hegemony.``

and it would not lead to the following?

``From what I’ve seen, read and know – gaining a sense of collectivity based on religious and national labels always results in the assumption of authority by a few to manipulate, judge and mobilize the many``

What a nut job ! Phew, its amazing to see so much mental disease in one mind..

Stalin murdered 30 million people over 30 years, russians and their neighbors. NO PROBLEM. Its just fine, you see, he was against capitalism....

Mao murderd 10 million chinese. Partly directly, partly through the great leap forward which justified mob violence and killing of ``intellectuals`` (anyone who can read or write).
NO PROBLEM. It`s just fine, you see, he was against capitalism...

Iran-Iraq war lead to 1 million dead in 1980s. But thats just fine, you see they were not capitalists. So killing is not really killing when executed by non-capitalists.

10 million children in India are out of school today, many in the communist paradise of Waste Bengal. BUT WHO CARES? it`s irrelevant because it has nothing to do with horrors of USA, UK, Israel, Indian business, Modi, etc. We should burn buses and have enormous strikes instead. This proves we are progressive and against capitalism...

It is OK to kill, burn and maim BUT it is not OK to work to change things. That is called selling out....

Shame on such people, they proove that the only worse fanatics than the RSS/Mullahs are the communists.

This piece does makes some good points.

Just because privatization does not solve every problem it does not mean state can solve those problems

Damn, i thought this was about Tupac. Great article.

good points, but is religous organising in itself bad? or is it the methodology?

what about Oscar Romero? Guitierrez? Other Catholic organising in Latin America?

what about muslim organising against apartheid in South Africa?