Wapsi (The Returning)

HP # 8
“Most of the India appears to be a living hell for minorities.”

I don’t agree. I am a minority in India and I live here. You have a right to your prejudices like everyone else, I just hope you will be able to overcome them some day.

Regards,


Faruk

Re: # 49

We have no way of ascertaining who you are really my dear Faruk.

Re# HP #38 and all the rest of the mullahs

You guys do not have to be so concerned about India.

You guys are just like mangy dogs constantly biting at our heels trying to rip off a chunk of flesh.

I would be willing to give over Kashmir, the land of our forefathers, to you ba$tards.

Just take EVERY MUSLIM from India, and promise never to come into India again.

(NOT BECAUSE EVERY MUSLIM IS BAD. BECAUSE THEY ARE DEFINITELY NOT. But because a few of their children might be. Just look at Osama Bin Laden as compared to the rest of his family. Its like cancer. You never know where the malignant cells are.)

No trade, no tourism, no contact.

We should then build a big wall, like Israel is building.

You guys are like a running chronic sore.

I just wish that all of Pakistan would move away on a tectonic plate.

Go away, disappear.

Ever since you muslims came there has been nothing but killing and bloodshed.

Take your wonderful religion and your wonderful prophet and leave.

But I guess we won`t be that lucky.

Now America wants us to help develop your economy. Otherwise, more terrorism.

The nightmare goes on.

[The simple fact that temples, gurudwaras and churches are regularly knocked down or left to rot in Pakistan without much demur because the system and the majority is Muslim while a single nationally and internationally reviled Babri Masjid incident in India required and provoked a national movement in India to precipitate matters is brought out up front by comparing the status of mosques in Indian Punjab with that of temples in Pakistani Punjab. In bright living colour.]


So what do you hand-wringing secularists have to say about this?

WHERE’s THE HAND WRINGING ABOUT THE MANY HINDU TEMPLES KNOCKED DOWN / DEFILED IN PAKISTAN? OR BANGLADESH?

WHERE’S THE PASSION? THE IDEALISM?

WHERE ARE THE FIERY PARAGRAPHS?

WHERE’s THE SANCTIMONIOUS SCREECHING AT THE INTERNATIONAL FORUMS?

YOU WANNABE INTELLECTUALS. YOU HYPOCRITICAL BA$TARDS.

Here we go again!!!.Immature rants by peevish petulant girls screaming at each other.I`m watching tv again , blurbs of Mush in Delhi, at Hyderabad House, the Presidential palace, meeting indian VIP`s, enjoying himself, feeling at home.He was even given his birth certificate.My money is on the fact that he`s contemplating retirement in India.Don`t all ex pak PM`s and presidents either end up dead or exiled?.I don`t want Mush to be disposed of.He`s an indian by birth and is welcome to settle down here. We treat our ex-PM`s and Presidents well.They get their limousines, security details, pensions, residences and free travel on Indian Air Force ``Raj Hans`` jet fleet(Boeing 737`s). Only President Kalam and PM Singh get to fly on Air Force One , a Boeing 737-800.I saw a clip on ndtv, of the afternoon luncheon hosted by Kalam at Rashtrapathi Bhavan.......Mush was clearly in awe of the splendor of the place,sitting opposite Kalam.Imagine Mush who was born in Delhi sitting as a guest of the son of a poor fisherman born two thousand miles from New Delhi, the current Commander-in Chief of the world`s 4th largest armed forces, President of the world`s 7th largest nation, presiding over the world`s 4th largest economy and growing , living in one of the most magnificent residences in the world, the envy of British kings themselves,Rashtrapathi Bhavan, the former Viceroy`s palace, designed by Sir Edward Lutyens to showcase the british empire in India?. The palace`s mughal gardens are a visual treat for any kind of eyes.I have been there and it is beautiful.Touche`.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2002/20020726/main9.htm

http://presidentofindia.nic.in/scripts/gallery.jsp

one of the common problem on both sides of the border for Punjab(which may not be visible in the film)has been the calculated apathy towards the punjabi language.East punjab is still better on this account thanks to to Gurnam Singh who was CM for just 18 months.Punjabi is still not taught as compulsary subject in schools of west punjab.

Re: #53 by cayenne

[I don`t want Mush to be disposed of. He`s an indian by birth and is welcome to settle down here. We treat our ex-PM`s and Presidents well.]

I personally know families whose twenty-year-old only sons have been killed BECAUSE OF President Musharraf’s illegal Kargil war.

Designed by him. Started by him.

Just because Chowk gives semi-intellectuals like yourself the forum to have their say DOES NOT MAKE HIM ANY LESS OF A CRIMINAL/MURDERER.

So shut up with your “mature” comments about ``Immature rants by peevish petulant girls screaming at each other``.

You hear me?

Shut the Fcuk up.

[blurbs of Mush in Delhi, at Hyderabad House, the Presidential palace, meeting indian VIP`s, enjoying himself, feeling at home]
[My money is on the fact that he`s contemplating retirement in India.]

And stop ma$turbating about whether Mush is contemplating retiring in India.

Bloody moron.

The fault lines of social violence, in Pakistan, have never fallen along religious lines (other than before the creation of Pakistan in 1947). These fault lines have always been along ethnic lines. I don`t know if that is better or worse, but it is the fact. And there are far too many statistics to back up these facts.

When East Pakistan separated, it was a conflict amongst ethnic Bengalis and ethnic Punjabis (plus other West Pakistani ethnicities). The Sunni/Shia/Christian/Hindu/etc. Bengalis were on one side, and the Sunni/Shia/Christian/Hindu/etc West Pakistani ethnicities on the other side.

Similarly the violence in Karachi has been along ethnic lines. The Sunni/Shia/Ahmadi etc. Muhajir on one side and the Sunni/Shia/Christian/Ahmadi/Hindu/etc. Sindhis on the other side.

The same is the case in the violence in Baluchistan.

If any furthur breakup of Pakistan occurs, it will only be on ethnic lines. Not on religious lines, i.e. the Chrisitians, Shias, etc. will not demand a separate state. However, Shia/Sunni/Chrisitan/etc. Baluchis together could demand one as Baluchis.

Pakistan has historically socially congested religous minorities, to some extent (something which happens in all third-world countries, which have a small number of religous minorities), however, it has not forced them to convert or targeted them violently, as a part of govt. policy. Infact the only violently oriented movement towards religious minorities, is intra-Islam, i.e. the tiny Sipah-e-Sahaba targeting the Shias. And the only major govt. policy has been intra-Islam also, i.e against Ahmadis.

There is one point that people need to use as an example. There are only two countries (not counting tiny ones like Bahrain) in the world, that have a large number of Shias and Sunnis living together. The largest of these is Pakistan. Pakistan has the second largest number of Shias in the world at around 30 million plus. This is second only to Iran.

The violent conflicts between Shias and Sunnis outdate those between Hindus and Muslims. And they have been spread out all over the world. They have a far more dedicated cadre on either side and are based on religious decrees. While Hindu/Muslim violence is only in one part of the world.

Yet, Pakistan has never had Shia/Sunni violence at a social level. Even when religious areas/mosques were being blown up in Pakistan by sectarian terrorist organizations, the Shia and Sunni populations of Karachi never went to war with each other. This is true for all of Pakistan. It has only now started occuring in areas near Gilgit.

What is the other country in the world, which has large numbers of Shias and Sunnis living next to each other: Iraq. And we can all see what is going on in Iraq. It may split into two or three countries, based on Shia/Sunni violence.

So, if people want to find the violent fault lines in Pakistan, they would be well-advised to look at the ethnic side. They will find quite a few. They will not find much, if anything on the religious side. On the later side, they will find the regular third world discrimination. But not the regular religious violent fault lines, that exist in many other third-world countries.............

re:#19 by MaheshG2
It is true that the decrease in percentage of hindus in post-partition Pakistan was mostly due to conversion to Islam. Whether this conversion was forced or voluntary can always be debated.
I had once posted a well researched article from bharatrakshak thread. I will try and post it again. A statistical analysis was done on the population pre and post partition (per religious basis) and the conclusion was clear: ethnic cleansing had taken place.
Sridhar

Ajeya #51, #52.
My friend. Please watch your blood pressure. :) Your dream and offer to bribe Muslims to go far away from India may be logical if it made sense and was backed up by historical facts. Honestly, like you I am fed up with blood, slaughter, and murder. Please consider that long before Muslims arrived in India, there had been many, many YUDs.

Aryans almost wiped out Dravidians in most of North India - consider the fatal blow to Moenjodaro and other Dravidian centers in the north.
The wars of the Mahabharat and Ramayan, where even gods took sides and great relish in killing people and wiping out entire clans. Cousins were encouraged to kill cousins.
The Greek invasions of 4th century BC and numerous killings.
Battles fought by Ashoka with such blood and gore that even he got shocked at the slaughter and swore against warfare. He also adopted Buddhism as his relgion, as if to emphasize that his own Hinduism was to blame for warfare and killing.
It was the Hindus who invited Babur, the Mogul to come to India in 1526.
My friend, violence, warfare, and killing was and is a human catastrophe. Please don`t put a Hindutva-inspired Muslim label.
Thanks,
Salim Ahmed Chauhan

Re #50,

Manto shows his amazing debating skills.

``You are a liar!!!!

Waaah. Yes, you are. I say so. Waaahh. You are a bad man. I will tell my mommy. I am right because I say so. Mommmmy!!!``

Romair, #56,
You make so much sense in your conclusion that the real conflict in Pakistani is along ethnic lines and not religious. Unfortunately, while the real prejudices are ethnic/linguists, there are spontaneous and ad-hoc occurrences that also cause religious fault lines. Consider the following:
An Urdu speaking Shia in Karachi does not always know which uniform to put on - Mohajir, Shia, or something more neutral.
A Panjabi speaking Sunni in Karachi is usually on the defensive, except when Shia/Sunni issues occur
An English speaking Christian is usually safer in Karachi than most Muslims.
A Sindhi speaking Hindu in Karachi is usually safer than an Urdu speaking Shia or Panjabi speaking anybody.
The whole prejudice paragdigm needs to be explained clearly to the people so they know their priorities.

Ayeja #51, {``Now America wants us to help develop your economy. Otherwise, more terrorism. The nightmare goes on.``}

Ayeja,
Now I see why you are so upset. Please accept my deepest apologies for the upsurge in cross-border terrorism launched by the Paki regime. I am sorry for the inhumane, violent, and merciless violence perpertrated upon the Indians by the bearded jihadis supported by Pakistan. The shock and trauma suffered by innocent Indian civilians in Bangalore, Jamshedpur, Ahmedabad, Kanpur, and finally Dehli is unforgivable. Shahid Afridi should have been immediately called back after what he did in Kanpur, definitely an integral part of India and not disputed territory like Kashmir. I am ashamed at the behavior of a handful of misguided Pakis, who showed no regard for the hospitality of their hosts and perpetrated such humiliation and suffering on the psyche of the average Indian.

Re: # 58

``Aryans almost wiped out Dravidians in most of North India - consider the fatal blow to Moenjodaro and other Dravidian centers in the north. ``

Hahahaha...
So is it you that has deciphered the language of Mohenjodaro/Harappa? A person who does that will definitely get Nobel. AIT is just a theory, no one has substantiated it, no proof just propaganda by the leftists.

``The wars of the Mahabharat and Ramayan, where even gods took sides and great relish in killing people and wiping out entire clans.``

Great relish? the gist of all these warfare is victory of god over evil. Anything wrong there. Atleast the wars were not waged to convert people to some kind of Nationalism and strip them of their culture and tradition.

``Cousins were encouraged to kill cousins. ``
Your role model didn`t even spare his elder brother. If you believe in Mah, I guess you know what the underline message was. If the murderer is a cousin, will the law not apply to him? Don`t you support the Palestinian Intifaad against their cousins?

``He also adopted Buddhism as his relgion, as if to emphasize that his own Hinduism was to blame for warfare and killing. ``

There is no fundamental difference b/t them. Even hindus consider Buddha as one of the avatar of Vishnu. Look at nepal where hinduism and buddhism not only co-exist but co-mingle. Same with Jainism.

``It was the Hindus who invited Babur, the Mogul to come to India in 1526. ``

So? To complete the statement, they asked him to go back too!

Re: # 61

We are fine with the terrorists who come with willow and visa take care of those who come uninvited with AK47.

Re: # 57

I don`t think the conversions would have gone in millions, may be thousands. West Pakistan had already taken care of hindus, so converison on such a large scale is not a possibility. When people talk about 1950 census of Pak, it includes East and West arms hence it is high. After 71 that would have fallen drastically for West. Even in Bangla the % of hindus is falling because of migration to West Bengal.