Shatranj ke Khiladi

Cayenne #158, {``Kardesh Saab.......What have you got against a middle-aged married guy, watching a little porn, while the Mrs. is asleep.... if you don`t make much of my liking for porn.OR, are you just jealous, `cause i live in a free country, where i can do whatever i want within the four walls of my house, where i pay a measly 500 rupees a month for dsl service and enjoy all the comforts of the developed world at the same price levels?

Cayenne,
Sir, I say this with great respect. I admire middle-aged married men who enjoy porn. After all, you are then a role model for many of us. I have nothing against you. Already you have done me a tremendeous favor. I am getting compliments and attaboys from the mighty literary giants of Chowk FP (Dotty, echoboom, Dost Sahib, Dilliwalla, Tahmed Sahib, and that great papal figure himself, hamidm2). Thank you, Cayenne, for this wonderful boost to my ego and giving me the impetus for a very original line of humor. I love porn, I am in favor of middle-aged men enjoying porn. In fact, all I was hoping for was that you would involve Mrs. Cayenne - otherwise, you run the risk of hearing that many Paki mullahs do the same while Mrs. Mullah sleeps. Then all is lost. Where is the advantage of democracy over theocracy? When in the middle of the night, unknown to anyone, while their mates sleep, both Mullah and Pundit log in to www.sex4u.com. Of course I am not jealous of you - 500 IR for a full month of DSl - Hell, they charge me $29.95. Yes, I am jealous. I am furiously jealous. Just for being such a good sport, here is a website for you, free, with great sample movies - www.assparade.com. :) Enjoy.

echoboom #146, {``It is time that the world gets deHarvardised, deOxfordised. ``}

Aameen and Amen to that Reverend. Thank you for your hearty encouragement about this ``athlete`s teeth`` phrase. Honestly, I just thought of it while replying to Mr. Cayenne - just a stroke of humor. I have these attacks quite often - might be related to my attempts at actually visualizing what my Indian friends are talking about.

You are right, tooth would be more fitting than teeth. I just wanted to balance teeth with feet for some pluralistic reason. Ever since being turned down by Harvard for monetary reasons, I too think the world needs to be deHarvardized.

BTW, I found the U-Turn Limited advertisement hilarious. I should compliment you on this. It doesn`t matter who is right or who is wrong - what is important is did we laugh?

Thanks again,

Urstruly (#172):

What ”dream of our destruction” are you talking about? Where did you get this? You used to be merely stupid … but have become blind as well.

My earlier comments (#170) highlight something relevant. During the last few decades, as clouds signaling a global storm were gathering, ummah was busy chasing defenseless Ahmadis. Note how much effort was put into blasphemy laws … anti-Ahmadiyya legislation … passport issues. It only pushed the ummah further along the road of fanaticism and hatred. It failed to alleviate suffering of a single human. You are now being consumed by your own hatred. That’s all.

In the face of crises, here’s what your ullema are up to … this time in Bangladesh. They continue to sink lower … while claiming to be victims of hatred themselves.

Click [Bigots again besiege Ahmadiyya mosque]

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Dost Mittar Sahib #153, {``kardesh, stay on the board if only to keep hamidm here!``}

Sir, I will stay here as long as necessary - now that you have stirred the pot by bringing this topic up right after Stuka`s controversial yet popular travelogues. I am just amazed at the decency of most interactors - must be your iinfluence on these professional hatemongers. :)

Kaura #157, {``We take pleasure in butchering these `hi fi` (gay in our opinion) lingos like Urdu, Hindi, English``}

That you do. That you do and very well, my friend :) Na eatRaN na weepRaaN, sirf SleepRaaN sleepRaaN. Kaidam azam ne kaum ki itni kidmat ki. :))

hazzy=hazy

Some along = somewhere along

in #176

It is the China and India that will play a major role in Asia, US and Brazil in the Americas, the EU in Europe and Russia will manage all by its` own and quite well.India and Russia will always have an understanding , just as Pakistan and the US will.So all for the good.Why worry?.

Amit #106: ``Who cares if you are a leader of a few neighborhood countries? What matters is how much economic clout you have, the standard of living in your country and your ability to influence world events for your own economic advantage.``

This is partially correct. Though it is a better option than massive military growth (which is a pre-requisite for becoming a player).

There is no need to inlfuence world events for one`s own economic advantage. As long as one is prosperous internally, everything works out fine. Look at Canada, or Switzerland, or Singapore.

The desire to influence world events, is nothing more than an ego-based aspiration. It serves no purpose. Unless, one can influence world events like the USA can. Or like Genghis Khan could. Although, the USA itself, is realizing it is not going to be able to do so, any longer.

The name of the game is actually alliances. EU being the best examples. France, England, Germany are gigantic ecnomies, by world standards. Yet they are in alliances with neighbors. USA is in NAFTA and trying to extend it. etc. etc.

And that is why I ask the two questions:

- Who is India going to ally with? It will be competing for resources and influence with China, so it certainly won`t ally with China.

- Where is India going to get its energy needs fulfilled, if it does not have alliances?

Pakistan and India should grow their economies by the current 6-8%. And they should solve internal problems, based on the wishes of the internal people (another area where egos play a great role). In the end, as long as people have a way to make good money and move from one place to another, easily, they are happy. And they lose their unnecessary nationalism.

Infact, South Asia should break up into many semi-independent or independent states, all in an economic union, voluntarily. It should end up like Europe, and live happily ever after.

All this talk of influencing this and influencing that, and become a player and non-player etc. is nothing more than a desire to satisfy an inferiority complex. And a waste of time..........

Urstruly (#138)

At least they [Indians?] have a dream. What do we have?

Don’t be disheartened … here’s what you have …

- Blasphemy laws: Anyone blaspheming against your god, his winged angel, his choir boy, or anyone named abdul, ali, or omar for that matter … will be killed.

- Anti-Ahmadiyya legislation: An Ahmadi cannot even act like a Muslim … ummah has reasons to feel secure and ecstatic.

- Your passport: You can prove to the world that you are a certified Muslim …

- Any time now a prophet will descend from the skies on shoulders of two angels … and save your rear. He will stick it to the infidels … establishing the glory of your faith. It may happen today for all I know … right Naqsh?


... they have none of this! ... but you have so much to look forward to. What`s the problem?

Re: # 170 sattar

congratulations, I see that you have a dream too, the dream of our destruction, that is. See, the Mullahs were never wrong about you people. It makes me wonder, however, why`d you want to be the very people you want to destroy in the first place. Just imagine how hypocritical I would sound If I say that I want to destroy America, but right after I get its citizenship.

Some More Food for Strategic Thinking (or Strategic Gibberish per Hamidm) on Chowk:


1. Number of links Pakistan-India to be increased from 3 to 5 (the two new ones at Jammu-Sialkot and Madarpur-Poonch). So clearly this was just a first step.

2. Number of Pakistan-Afghanistan links to be increased from 2 to 12. With aim of giving Afghanistan and CAR to Karachi/Gwadar ports.


And tahmed has references to prove it!!

And more

3. India willing to modify design of Baglihar Dam

from the fount of all knowledge, Dawn!!

note: not indicated in above link, but the dam is a big issue since the way it is being designed it gives India the ability to mess with Chenab waters (as I understand it, something to do with water outlets being too low on the dam). Pakistan has challenged this as a violation of the India-Pakistan treaty.

#166 by HisExcellency on April 19, 2005 11:28am PT


The Indian people are just one of the three stakeholders in this conflict.


The Indian people don`t see it that way...


the Indian people will also have to alter its stance (i.e. ``atoot ang``). Inflexibility on part of the Indian public will be a deal-breaker.


Whole of Kashmir is atoot-ang..Indian Kashmir for India and Pakistani Kashmir for India IS flexibility....


Inflexibility on part of the Indian public will be a deal-breaker.


The Indian people seem to be prepared to deal with that...As the Indian PM has clearly said, no redrawing of borders...now while you might come back and say the LoC isn`t a border, the Indian people don`t see it that way...what you can defend is a border for them..Like Ayaz Amir says, the LoC isn`t some arbitrary line...It`s the line to which the mights of the two countries extends..India can`t get land on the other side and Pakistan can`t get land on the India side...


This time if the peace process breaks down, the onus will be entirely on India.


Somehow I think the two sides, in no small part due to the pressure from the US, have decided to freeze the status quo for now...Musharraf may scream about how he won`t let the Kashmiris down, but even hardliners like Geelani see that they`ve been talibanned...

Dost-mittar #147: ``BTW I did not see many Pakistani chowkies protesting when Pakistan had succeeded in making Afghanistan into its pawn and was talking enthusiastically of becoming a leader of the newly independent muslim republics of central Asia. Those were the UNOCAL days.``

There was, at least, one Chowkie complaining. Me. I complained, just like I am complaining now. I have always stated that Pakistan and Afghanistan should draw a line, and not allow anything, other than pomegranates and melons to flow across it. There is nothing good that has ever come into Pakistan (pre and post parition) from Afghanistan. And Afghanistan has never gotten anything good from Pakistan, either.

All this stuff about becoming a player is ego-based. It has no practical benefits. Pakistan`s desires to become a player, somewhere or the other - be it the Muslim world or South Asia - have done it a lot of harm. I think after taking those hits, Pakistan has now realized that it is a useless endevour.

Becoming a player is a phenomenally demanding task. Neither Pakistan, nor India can afford it. Even the USA is realizing, it can barely afford it. I doubt China is going to try to become a player, beyond Asia.

Becoming a player puts a country in direct confrontation with the status-quo player. And the status-quo player will do its best to knock out any competitor. For India to become a player, it needs to be ready to compete with China, like Russia tried to compete with the USA. In addition, it needs allies on its side. As I asked earlier, whom does India plan to have as its allies?

India could try to force others to ally with it, much like Russia forced its neighbors. But India is not powerful enough. And the neighbors will jump ship, as soon as they get the chance. And they will hate India for it.

Pakistan and India and SAARC nations should aspire to be EU. An economic union, of loosely federated, or even independent states, which have a common currency and free trade and no visas.

There is a big chunk of becoming a player that you are unfamiliar with. And that is the massive amount of military infrastructure one has to have in place, to become a player. India`s yearly military budget will have to grow to over $100 billion or more, for it to even think of competing with China. And it will have to have a domestic full-fledged military manufacturing capability. It cannot afford to buy its equipment forever, at the numbers it needs to become a player. Do keep in mind that France, a country that sells the most sophisticated aircraft to India, itself, does not have the resources to buy its own aircraft in large enough numbers to become a player.

And all these military buildups will greatly de-stabilize South Asia.

The solutions to South Asia`s problems lie soving internal conflicts and problems. Not in trying to create new problems for others, by becoming players. Pakistan and India should just try to ensure they don`t become pawns. And should definitely not try to become players.

Had the USSR just solved its internal problems, instead of unnecessarily trying to become a player, it would have been far better off today, than the disintegrated country it turned into. And do keep in mind that the USSR was far ahead of where China, India and Pakistan are in Human Development (infact USSR is 70 places ahead of India and Pakistan).

I think you would be well-advised in trying to get Canada to become a player, than India. Canada has a lot of money to waste............

P.S. A couple of other things you may want to consider:

India`s population, according to Narayan Murthy, is increasing by 16 million a year. In ten years, it will increase by 18 million per year. That is an addition of one Canada, every two years. In ten years, it will have 160 million new mouths to feed. In 30 years, it will have 520 million new mouths to feed.

China`s population is never going to go beyond 1.5 billion and will eventually start declining. China has ample access to energy through partnerships with neighbors. Where is India going to get its energy needs fulfilled from to feed all the people, much less for becoming a player.

#155 by arjun_m

what solution do you have in mind?

A solution that is acceptable to the doves on the three sides viz: Congress, Muslim League, Peoples Party and Hurriyat Conference. The hawks (Jamaat-e-Islami, Lashkar, Jaish, BJP, RSS, VHP, Shiv Sena, Bajrang Dal) shall only play spoiler, so they have to be marginalized.

While you might think of that as intransigence, it`s the position of the Indian government based on the wishes of the Indian population....

The Indian people are just one of the three stakeholders in this conflict. Since the other 2 stakeholders have moved away from their maximalist positions (i.e. Azadi, infiltration, ``Kashmir is our sheh rag``, plebsicite), the Indian people will also have to alter its stance (i.e. ``atoot ang``). Inflexibility on part of the Indian public will be a deal-breaker.

Therefore, the Indian govt has a responsibility to prepare its public for a compromise. Whether this process should be gradual or abrupt is another matter.

This time if the peace process breaks down, the onus will be entirely on India.

Re: # 166
HE sahib

Think the Indian Public is prepared for the compromise and it is there for you to take up. From my understanding of the situation the public opinion in Indian is willing to accept Shimla agreement concept. That is what is happening now in all but name.

You have to understand the Indian mosdus operandii - they have been building up the opinion in this regard now for some 10 years one way or the other. It is the pakistanis who have misunderstood the situation and misread it in its entireity.

You suggesting the staus quo and freezing is just reading the script from the play written by GHQ. Remember pakistan is the piggy in the middle (re:#118) of a game where players are holding different things which others want.

This is Shimla agreement.