Gen. Musharraf Visits Delhi

#40 by paindupastry on April 25, 2005 1:19pm PT


do u deny or accept that attrocities have been committed by indian troops in kashmir. esp during the 80`s and 90`s


The Indian state has committed atrocities against a lot of people...hindus and muslims alike...what makes muslim suffering so special?

how many kashmiris were killed before 1989? See a link there?

Re: # 39

Here is my take on it!

Yes, atrocities have taken place, even sometimes by army personnel although more commonly by the police and paramilitary forces.

Unfortunately, there is a symbiotic relationship between any insurgency and the efforts to suppress it, especially if insurgents enjoy a certain level of support among the populace. It is harder for those fighting the insurgents to always distinguish between innocent people and those who are indulging in violent activites. The result is that they become trigger happy and get into the habit of shooting first and asking questions later. Unfortunately, these trigger happy acts of security forces are counterproductive. Every innocent person killed and tortured produces many more insurgents burning with the desire of revenge. This is why I call this relationship symbiotic.
I used to be much more critical of the Indian security forces than I am now, after I have seen the level of violence that the US troops indulges in Kosovo, Afghanistan and Iraq; they are willing to kill/bomb hundreds of civilian to avoid risking their own casualties.

I might add that human rights abuses in Kashmir have not been a one-sided affair; the jihadis have indulged in as much, if not greater atrocities against civilians suspected of supporting the government and administration. Therefore, those who have been sending/supporting these jihadis cannot escape responsibility for human rights abuses either.

#32 by paindupastry on April 25, 2005 9:20am PT
``just a question for my indian mates.

do u deny or accept that attrocities have been committed by indian troops in kashmir. esp during the 80`s and 90`s

if yes, what kind and how many ppl did they effect.

just seeking ur views on the attrocities committed by the indian troops! thanks``

.....still awaiting an adequate response!!

Re: # 32
``just a question for my indian mates.

do u deny or accept that attrocities have been committed by indian troops in kashmir. esp during the 80`s and 90`s
if yes, what kind and how many ppl did they effect.
just seeking ur views on the attrocities committed by the indian troops! thanks``

.....still awaiting an adequate response!!

#29 by ferozk on April 25, 2005 8:48am PT


Arjun, ``The Nation`` is a newspaper which claims to be national newspaper but in reality represents the view of Punjab and its editorials have always been pro-Kashmir and against any compromise over the issue of Kashmir.


Yup....Their editorials always scream ``We need to build <insert a proposed dam that punjab wants but sindh/b`stan don`t> because big bad India is running off with the waters of the Indus``

Re: # 36

thanks shishapa for ur comments. i know u tried ``very very hard`` but im looking forward to hearing a ``proper`` answer to my question. let the others have a chance as well! thanks!

Re # 35,

OK, then here is my reply.

There were not attrocities commited by Indian troops in Kashmir.
ISI trained terroris in Pakistan to commit all kinds of attrocities in the garb of
Indian troops to malign the image of Indian troops. Indian troops are not capable of
doing any attrocities. If ever they did, they can`t be Indian troops, for Indian troops
are trained and taught only to fight enemy and not commit any attrocities on anybody.

Hope it helps towards your better understanding of pristine nature of Indian troops.

Re: # 33
Kindly answer the question or refrain from responding to my query. I am not giving a final judgement on anything rather i am just asking a simple question to better understand the situation.

Re # 29

Ferozk,

What do you think about pakobserver.net?
Does it have a English/Urdu/Regional Language print edition besides net edition?

Re # 32

Paindupastry,

Have you pondered over the question why there were no troops in J&K before late 80s
before asking such questions to Indian mates?
If not, can you ponder and answer the question?

just a question for my indian mates.

do u deny or accept that attrocities have been committed by indian troops in kashmir. esp during the 80`s and 90`s

if yes, what kind and how many ppl did they effect.

just seeking ur views on the attrocities committed by the indian troops! thanks

Re: # 8

very well said...! bravo!

long live kashmir, pakistan and all freedom lovers

re: Dost-Mittar # 27

Dost, the bureaucratic resistence is also a concern in Pakistan.

Ciao

re: arjun_m # 28

Arjun, ``The Nation`` is a newspaper which claims to be national newspaper but in reality represents the view of Punjab and its editorials have always been pro-Kashmir and against any compromise over the issue of Kashmir. Most Pakistani provinces do not share Punjab`s love for the Kashmiri cause and would much rather see the end of the problem. The Nation upholds the values and virtues of Punjab and not of Pakistan per se and it does, as you pointed out, reflects the more militant Pakistani viewpoint over Kashmir, whereas Dawn, The News and the Daily Times have been very pragmatic and realistic in their editorials over Kashmir.

Yes; The Nation is opposed to converting the LoC into an international border and in this, it will find an alliance with the MMA and specially Qazi Ahmad Hussain of JUI, which is also against the idea. Ironically, PPP and PML-QA and PML-N will eventually embrace the idea of LoC as a formal border, because these parties are interested in political power and not interested in picking a fight with the army.

Tarar is the mouthpiece of Nawaz Sharif, because as a judge, he was very instrumental in pushing the idea of sharia in Pakistan and in moving the 15th Amendment through the national assembly, which sought to make sharia a law in Pakistan.

Ciao

#23 by ferozk on April 24, 2005 11:02pm PT

The editor`s of ``The Nation`` are completely oppossed to this solution: converting the LoC into a border of some sort. This item was printed with the intentions of sending out a message ``Look..they`re selling out the Kashmir cause``..

This is an article the day before...I`ve posted the parts that lead me to this conclusion...this and the tone of their editorials for the past year or so...

Enlightened moderation killing Islamic culture: Tarar


He lamented that under the name of moderation, Kashmir cause was being forgone and the government was deviating from the UNO resolutions by forgetting 90,000 Kashmiri martyrs and the insinuation of modesty of thousands of women. He said by cowardice, the ruler was seeking forgiveness for himself from the greatest terrorist, America. He said people should think what they were before Oct. 12, 1999 and what they had become.

Rafique Tarar paid rich tributes to ‘The Nation’ Editor-in-Chief Majid Nizami for his courage, perseverance and upholding of the Islamic and Pakistani values under heavy odds.

ferozk#25:

Yes, I do remember that chat!
But I am not opening the champagne yet. I have full confidence in bureaucrats, especially Indian, to be the flies in the soup. Manmohan is no Musharraf who can ride roughshod over everyone else. Vajpayee did try to go over the heads of the bureaucrats from time to time but was more often than not pulled back by them.