Which Road will the Pope Take?

Re: # 11


``i have realized a recently developed prejudice in hindus against muslims``

I think it is age old. And yes, it is mutual. Partition, riots are all its forms.


``i think the recipie for developing such an enlightment is the following:

- remain subjugated for several centruies by foriegn masters
- obtain the inevitable freedom
- wait untill the GDP starts to rise
- after it does, start talking all kind of shit against your ex-masters ``

Not necessarily, if you look at history many nations who became rulers of vast landmass were subjugated and ruled by others for centuries. Britain was under Romans, Vikings, French, the russians were under Tatar-Mongols, Americans were under British. Chinese were under Japs (for a short time).
All this talk about GDP is indeed childish. There are a few Indians who do bring up the matter, I apologize for that. They need to understand that india is still a country with 250-300 million poor people. I guess its the recent confidence and prosperity among the relative few which has triggered it.

`` i am an athiest, a lover of my historical heritage, may it be in india or pakistan, comming from any religion, hinuism`

You surely are an endangered specie in the Islamic world.

``obvious self-invented contempt of GDP indians puts me off.``

Same here. India has miles to go and decades to toil hard.

# 11
EYES WIDE SHUT, thats how u can describe the average paki, hindus dont hate muslims,
but they cant understand why pakistanis refuse to see the wrongs in their religion. the
latest report by National Counterterrorism Centre in usa says that a majority of the dreaded terrorist groups that threathen india and the rest of the world are in pakistan.
thats the reality that pakis refuse to see and thats what bugs the average indian

# 11
EYES WIDE SHUT, thats how u can describe the average paki, hindus dont hate muslims,
but they cant understand why pakistanis refuse to see the wrongs in their religion. the
latest report by National Counterterrorism Centre in usa says that a majority of the dreaded terrorist groups that threathen india and the rest of the world are in pakistan.
thats the reality that pakis refuse to see and thats what bugs the average indian

and by the way, smart pops know that the only way to get any consideration from millions of indifferent first worlders is to cut down the crap of religious fundamentalism. they sure will be interested in selling from their shop, no matter how stright they might be in terms of their religious orthodoxy. it`s just that they don`t have the luxary of blind audiance like there is in abudance in muslim countries.

they are like a strict father who used to kick and punch his son for his own reasons but now that the son has outgrown him in strength, knows that the only way to save some respect is to back off from being a `bad father` and do whatever it costs to look like a `good father`.

akpower,

yaar don`t mess with such folks. i hate to say this but at least from my experience of this forum, i have realized a recently developed prejudice in hindus against muslims. it is as if they are trying to prove something, as if they are taking some kind of revenge. i think the recipie for developing such an enlightment is the following:

- remain subjugated for several centruies by foriegn masters
- obtain the inevitable freedom
- wait untill the GDP starts to rise
- after it does, start talking all kind of shit against your ex-masters

have some morals guys. i am an athiest, a lover of my historical heritage, may it be in india or pakistan, comming from any religion, hinuism, islam, sikhism or budhism but the obvious self-invented contempt of GDP indians puts me off.

Ohh so u mean to say that Muslims shd not debate criticize their own leaders and Christians shd also always back theirs even when they are wrong? If something is factual then it shd be supported, no matter what.

You wrote the article from a muslim`s point of view, for the sake of muslims, and the perceived threat that this pope may be to the muslims` agenda. So, why are you apalled?

1. There is enough outrage over Islamic fundamentalists within Islamic countries and outside. A massive number of articles have been written in this context, even on this forum. I find it appalling for people to ignore that.

2. I have my reservations against this new Pope, which may or may not be cleared depending on his agendas. I sure hope they do!

3. We are not discussing Islamic extremists and their activities here, because it is an oft-discussed issue. I find it appalling that some people are not open to open discussions about such high-profile religious personalities. I am sure if this article was about a corrupt/extremist Islamic leader, a lot of people would have voiced a positive opinion.

Under Pope Benedict XVI, a major shift in most of the Vatican’s positions is unlikely, since he already was one of the most influential men in the Vatican and worked closely with the late John Paul II before he became pope.

As per Wikipedia and other such sources, he has opposed changing the traditional Catholic doctrines on marriage, family and homosexuality. He was seen by critics as at best indifferent to church sex abuse scandal. He maintains that the concept of female priests does not fit into the Catholic faith. He has rejected the idea that divorced people can remarry.

However, his views are basically similar to those of Pope John Paul II, who was not subject to criticism on the same scale. So it is more a matter of the way he says it than what he says.

It should also be noted that he criticized the U.S. war on Iraq in 2003, saying that it could not be justified. In selecting the name Benedict, he invoked Pope Benedict XV, who worked for peace during World War I. Without a certain degree of moral firmness, he would not have been able to take such clear-cut positions.

Therefore, the road for the new Pope is already well known (and travelled).

Isn`t it amusing to see islamic interlocutors demanding ``inter-faith dialog`` from Christians?

Why shouldn`t it work the other way around as well? Where are muslims taking initiative and outreach to various minorities and other civilizations? I don`t mean charity but true doctrinal outreach based on respect for other religous traditions as legitimate and valuable.
Why arent there vast protest movements againts the islamofascism of Saudi Arabia? Where is the outrage at the jihadi islam of pakistan?

The answer is a deafening silence. You see, this is a task for others but not for orthodox religous muslims. They have no need for analysis along these lines or for defining a position on harmony based on muslim traditions. They are, after all, perfect and why should perfection compromise with others?

The pope is a religous bigot no doubt, full of narrow-minded eurocentric and abrahamic absolutes. But at least the past pope apologized to the jews and prayed with them at jerusalem. A modest beginning, but it does mean something, especially to the european jews who are a small minority of the european peoples.

inter-faith issues? reading too much paulo coelho etc.?

what exactly is an inter-faith issue?

According to mister pope, there is no salvation for you mister writer (assuming from your arabic first name that you are a muslim), you are heading to a fiery place well-thought out for guys like you by mister Pope`s God.

And presumably, according to Koran mister Pope is gonna get sent to a similar place for commiting Shirk, a sin for which no redemption is possible till eternity. Hum Feeha Khalidoon? eh?

So where exactly is the inter-faith issue here?

Compared to mullahs, ayatollahs, wahabis, the new Pope is an innocent altar boy. Critiquing him is like arresting petty thiefs while murdrers run free.

Muslims like you are alarmed because now you may have a counterbalance to your agenda.

``Pope Benedict XVI, Mr.Ratzinger’s papal name, has also gone on record to say that he is against Turkey’s induction into the European Union. “Turkey has always represented a different continent, always in contrast with Europe,`` he told``

E.U. is an union of European nations. Turkey is not European by race, ethnicity, geography so why the hell it should be included in E.U. Simply because in the 15th century they captured Constatinople, they have to be included in E.U.? 90% of Turkey is in Asia Minor. The whole intention to be included in E.U. is for economic reason. In no time millions of turks will be all over Europe. What the Ottomans couldn`t achieve they will achieve very swiftly. As some said it will be the death of Europe.

Re: # 1

So, what exactly is your point? In this article have I looked to defend Muslim priests who preach hatred or am I taking their side?? Hell no. Yes there are some Muslim priests and organziations that preach hatred, but two wrongs don`t make a right. 99% of Muslim population doesn`t reflect those attitudes. I was just saying how this new pope apparently is and the things he has said in the past. My article is based on facts. And if you can`t accept facts, it tough.

You are fretting about the Pope when Muslim Priests from the highest pulpits of Islam preach hellfire and damnation to non believers? Europe is and always will be a tolerant place compared to the mess, obscuratinism and intolerance of the Islamic world. Get your own house in order before preaching to others.