Two Poems: Attention Please and Say What?

..I thought being painfully elaborate wasnt needed.Anyway, I will be of help.``Sheer numbers``--a large populace holding on to some opinion, et al. Here, you and the people in the bus(or atleast, the poem`s version of them).That, I suppose, should be enough to get the statements connected with it.The rest is plain speak.

Re: # 23

Dude, which language is this?

RE: attention please.


If sheer numbers might have made the situation look like the way it has....you are only an instance of the tragedy where sheer numbers always shriek at their being(im referring to the numbers there) good...or more alarmingly, at their being ``true`` cos of their shallow numbers, in a lotta cases...but underneath, you seem to be guided all the way, by an inherent-aversion-rising-most-probably-out-of-a-prejudiced-and-ignorant-view on veils and it is sad to note that you took a case of someone standing for their beliefs -which keep on silently but unvaryingly, proving themselves inspite of centuries and inspite of all the hollow bickers- in a way wherein u seem to sympathise with her in hidden tones (she might not even care a foot and like millions of her clan, might be proud of it and knows perfectly what she is doing!...showing her face to the person of profession so that she can apply or register or enrol or whatever else to a necessary document or for the Hajj Pilgrimage, for instance, only to please The Creator once again!..you must talk to some of those people in private and you probably would understand)....

And the sheer bad taste of your verses:

and I am wondering about the man
the photographer inside
the cubicle taking your picture
and the bliss he must be going through
for being the only stranger to see you
through the eyes of his camera


and the verses where you treated everyone else in remotely similar manner just reflects, even though i am not being personal to u here, that there is this foul of the mind, the dirt inside thats provoking the poet to draw out perversive conclusions of everyone-is-thinking-vulgar rather than taking the courageous step of trying to see the beauty of it all the way...coz there is sheer beauty in the way someone sticks to God and lives by his/her belief inspite of the whole world opposed and mocking!...and rightly so, the ones who have that beauty to see only seem to end up wanting to be a part of living that life themselves and The Benevolent Creator, of course, welcomes them towards Him...and like its happening with a lot of people ..all over the world(!)...anyone can experience it, if they are humble enough for themselves... inshAllah!

Re: # 17

noether happens to be the last name of Emmy (I`m sure you know who she is, the German mathematician who developed the conservation theorem), and f happens to be the first alphabet of my first name.

I don`t think I have insulted anyone`s name here, it`s just a general observation, and while I really appreciate your input and correction, I would like to add, it is best not to judge a person by his/her name, SHAH Sahib.

extrem view of every thing is bad.. same applies to da veil observence...
nicely pointed out..

Fluid lines..doen`t require too much of brain waves...keep writing!

Re: # 18

You totally win, Shah sahib. Thank you for the post and the correction!

Cheers

noetherf

Re: # 14

CORRECTION

In my attempt to verify the quoted verse with the Quran, I came upon the following:

The verse you`ve quoted is from Sura An-Nur (The Light), not Nisa. The verse number is same - 31.

M`assalaam

Re: # 14

No Miss Fakhra, you`re absolutely correct in quoting the verses from the Quran, although I haven`t had a chance to verify each and every word with Quran. But there`s more on this subject in the Quran. Following is just another one for you to ponder the whole context:

O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women (3764), that they should cast their outer garments over (3765) their persons (when out of doors): that is most convenient, that should be known (3766) and not molested. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, (3767) and Most Merciful.

(Sura Al-Ahzab, verse 59)

(3764): This is for all Muslim women, those of the Prophet’s household, as well as the others. They were asked to cover themselves with outer garments when walking out of doors.

(3765): Jilbab, plural jalabib: an outer garment; a long gown covering the whole body or a cloak covering the neck and bosom.

(3766): The object was not to restrict the liberty of women, but to protect them from harm and molestation. In the East and in the West a distinctive public dress code of some sort or another has always been a badge of honour or distinction, both among men and women. This can be traced back on the earliest civilizations. Assyrian Law in its palmiest days (say 7th century B.C.), enjoined the veiling of married women and forbade the veiling of slaves and women of ill fame: see Cambridge Ancient History, III, 107.

(3767): That is, if a Muslim woman sincerely tries to observe this rule, but owing to human weakness falls short of the ideal, then “Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful”.

(The Holy Quran, English translation of the meanings and Commentary, Revised & Edited by THE PRESIDENCY OF ISLAMIC RESEARCHES, IFTA, CALL AND GUIDANCE)

I hope it adds to your perspective, if your weren`t already aware of it; in which case, please accept my humble apologies.

no matter what or how you try to cover yourself, people will see you. It`s inevitable.

Please refer to commentary #3767.

My point being, who decides what`s moderation? If one looks at the big picture, i.e. as a system in its entirety, Islam is extremely moderate as it is. It`s only a matter of studying it sincerely.

Secondly, there is a difference to be understood between Taqwa and Fatwa

Taqwa is simply defined as moving closer towards the center, i.e. Allah. In other words, a Muslim who wishes to get closer to Allah as much as he/she can reinforces his/her Taqwa by obeying Him optimally.

On the other hand, Fatawa define the limits - max and min required. These are issued when something is unclear, or not too apparent from the Quranic verses to a common person. In this instance, according to a hadith of the Prophet (pbuh) the face, hands, and feet do not have to be covered. But the more a woman does, the more she pleases Allah.

As per the verses above, from the worldly perspective she`s only trying to protect herself more than others care to. Simultaneously, giving her the benefit of doubt, she`s doing her best to please Allah. If still someone sees her, despite her best efforts, according to the verse above, it is not her fault. For example physicians and their patients, if for a woman there’s no female physician available, the male doctor can treat ALL her ailments, and vice versa. Allah says Himself that He`s Oft Forgiving and Merciful. Unfortunately, what you have is a misperception or ill-perception of the subject.

Speaking of pleasing Allah as much as one can... people like her always find it easier to please One immortal Allah, versus trying to please millions of mortals who may or may not see the next minute. Her brothers` behavior is not her fault and she will not be held accountable for their actions.

Be that as it may, all humans attract attention – men, women, children, white, black, brown, red, yellow, thin, fat, and you name it, thus the dressing attracts also attention of varying degrees.

The veiled woman had restricted the others` curiosity to her veiled face. On the other hand, her brothers’ “eyes pry for other dignities that seemed to be roaming around naked”… despite the irony of the situation, they, along with other men in the room, were past the faces of other women present and were probably contemplating their measurements and other attributes – visual molestation.

Your ill-thoughts, and that of men who think like you, couldn’t roam further beyond her concealed face, her beliefs, and how ridiculous she may have looked all hidden from public view. While for her brothers and other men like them, their hypocrisy and sin notwithstanding, the prominent body parts of the non-veiled women may have generated so many ill-thoughts that they probably thought they were in the Wild West as there was nothing more to guess about their faces other than softness, taste, and smell.

I know you or other women often don’t intend to provoke such ill-thoughts in men, but that’s exactly what happens because it’s an innate animal trait of natural selection. Not all men are equal, thus their perceptions of a woman and her body vary. Most men when they’re attracted to a feminine face and/or body don’t care much about her intelligence, achievements, beliefs, and what have you. They just seek the lusty animal within her. The same applies to women when they’re attracted and aroused by a male face and physique. The only difference is that they express it less frequently than the men, if ever.

Furthermore, if as a woman you can be so frustrated by her veil, imagine how many men would want to continue looking at her especially when there are non-veiled women. Besides, if you were in a place where all women veil themselves like that woman, you`d probably feel naked. As much as she may have felt out of place, she didn`t feel naked...I`m sure, even when revealing herself to the photographer out of necessity.

Out of curiosity, how would you feel if she uttered that you should veil yourself because her brothers couldn’t take their eyes off your nasheb o faraaz? Do you really think you were that invisible in the room just because you were ``moderately`` dressed and did not have a ‘ninja’ outfit on?

If you argue that you don’t care what others think of you, then what right do you have to think of her as ironic just for veiling herself?

#4
[Can you veil yourself without the veil?
Reveal without being revealed?`]

Can you eat without eating?

With your confused logic, you’re restricting personality to merely thoughts and spirit – the intangibles, while ignoring the tangible – body…yet you prefer the nick no-ether-f(emale)…c’mon! lol

How can one be private about thoughts and personality and compromise the physical privacy and security? What kind of a privacy is it? Do you see the hypocrisy and irony here?

Please read the article at the ling below. I`m sure you`ll find it interesting, to say the least.
Veil: The View from the Inside

Sorry, for the long response, but subject is not as trivial as `moderates` tend to make it.

Thank you and M`assalaam

The opning seemed promising but rest of it just gets lost. Where? Im still looking. More later. Cheers.

Re: # 12

:)

Re: # 13 and #11

Shah sahib and BeeJay, this poem was meant to highlight the extremism in the use of the veil. What you see here are ironies, ironies telling you: no matter what or how you try to cover yourself, people will see you. It`s inevitable.

Mind you, I have nothing against the veil, the words that you see are of fury over the ironies. What I`m trying to say is that we ought to adopt a more moderate approach towards it.

As quoted in Surah Nisa, verse 31:

Translation:

``And say to the believing women
That they should lower
Their gaze and guard
Their modesty; that they
Should not display their
Beauty and ornaments except
What (ordinarily) appear...

And that they
Should not strike their feet
In order to draw attention
To their hidden ornaments.``

Please, do correct me if I am wrong.

Re: # 8

Miss Fakhra, a.k.a. noetherf,

Would you kindly enlighten us with the essence of the veil ?

I would really like to see what my mother, sisters, wife, and teenage daughter may be doing wrong.

Thanks

Notes on “Say What”:

This one
Went over
(Way, way, over)
The nest
MY nest
Help
Please help
Gill
DR. Gill
Where
O where
Is the man
When
One needs him?
REALLY
Needs him!


(Fakhra: Please don’t form the wrong impression! I enjoyed both the poems! :)

Some ``Notes``:

[…and the bliss he must be going through
for being the only stranger to see you
through the eyes of his camera]

Maybe
It occurred to you
Or maybe
It did not
That
The man was
Doing a job?
Just
Doing a job!
O the “bliss” of it!

[she is not supposed
to be
looked upon by strangers
but it seems she had no choice
but to give in. She`s exposed,
now he knows, what she looks
like. And in my fury, I utter: ]

Exposed
Yes, exposed
All of her
Two eyes
One nose
A mouth
Maybe
A soul
Even
A soul
Wait
But wait
We shall never know
For the veil
THAT veil
Was never lifted
Except
Maybe it was
Through this poem!

[Can you veil yourself without the veil?
Reveal without being revealed?`]

Or drive?
Without
A license!

Fakhra
It has been long that i have been on chowk, and i just see your poems. I have to spend some time to understand your poems. I am very impressed of your artistic talent. It has been some time that i have spend time reading good poetry.

Muddat hui mar gia ghalib par aab bhi yaad aata hai
Wo har ek baat par kehna, yuun hota tu kia hota

Regards.