Soapbox Sania

Re. my post #282, I wish to state that the definition of modern Hindu I gave was more in the nature of a response to the constant ‘modern Muslim’ talk. And the portions addressed to vivek and avkrishna were seriously tongue-in-cheek. If I wish to make any comment into an ‘us’ vs. ‘them’ one, then I will spell it out clearly. Subtlety anyway goes above people’s heads here…

Anil (#308):

I did not like the tone of your earlier post…it certainly did not come across as what you are now implying. Re. marketing, it is easier to market what is palatable; my views clearly are not. But each to their opinion of what I am…

I have already said that that was not meant to be a definition of modern Hindu. I cannot answer for vertex and his views on role models (but people often use the term mullah quite liberally for anyone who makes any Muslim sounds, even if it is as a response or as an ‘outsider’). Speaking for myself, I have already stated in post 207: “How can anyone decide who ought to be the role model for Muslims? It could be Sania or it could be anyone from the arts, literature, education, science, social activism, feminism…and if ‘hottie’ is what we want, then there are several item girls from the Muslim community. Though I do not believe the role model needs to be Muslim. Why stratify a community?”
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Certain small minds do not notice these comments because they have to pronounce someone regressive.

[1) Sania is a model Indian because she is the only Indian to get to this level in professional tennis (not because she wears short skirts).]

My comment (207): “Regarding Salman Khan being what he is because he removes his shirt is plain silly, just as it is stupid to think that Sania’s achievements on court are due to her skirts”.

[{One of the questions I had posed in the article: Has Sania managed to change people’s views about Muslims? Going by the responses on this board, the answer is NO!}
She would have. Unfortunately, FV and Vertex rear their ugly heads every now and then.]

My first post was #207…check the views expressed before that. And it is rather amazing that two individuals, who have been affectionately called “idiots”, can influence people to such an extent.
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#301 by avkrishna:

I have already stated the intent of my post…about Bukhari influencing street Muslims, I do not agree. And despite my irrelevance at that level, I shall answer your question: “Will `you` wait till that day to start engaging with `us` or start from now?”

I always did…it is just that you did not notice! IMs belong to the same space and constraints as any other Indian.
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#311 by jang:

[ferzanas fear is is more career related. if muslims get inspired to be successful like sania, she loses her favorite whining topic, community victimhood.]

I just heard that the daughter of a guy arrested under POTA has started attending tennis coaching classes. Right? You can be so very facile…the problem is you cannot digest the fact that a woman who happens to be a Muslim openly expresses her views of several topics (the whining floats your boat, so I can’t do much about that), so you take subterfuge to express your liberalism via the safe route of a girl who is not ever going to question you and the pet theories people have. She is part of your game…so enjoy.

#319 by babe u mean a child..not a hottie.

#316

sure, and you will still go down 0-6, 0-6 to her.

ali yaar, she is a babe..how can you say such nasty things about her.

Vertex says he is fine with Kalam and Sania being floated as good Indian role models but he takes offence if they are floated as good Muslim role models.

Note he erroneously claims (or to put in other words, simply lies) that people think they are good Muslim role models because Kalam doesn`t read the Quran or Sania doesn`t wear Burqas but the real reason for him disowning these two role models is because according to him they are not Muslims (inspite of they themselves claiming they are Muslims).

People are saying Kalam and Sania are Muslim role models because they are role models who happen to be Muslim. It`s as simple as that.

FV and Vertex object to all this because according to them they are not Muslims according to their own definition.

#314 by arjun_m
vertex has taken to lying through his teeth...he claims kalam doesn`t read the koran...

sussray, sharam kerr... you have posted this 32 times as mohar1 and 29 times as arjun_m already.....

acutally, sania mirza is not attractive or sexy. Her thighs are flabby, her calves are too thin for an athelete and her ass is too big. Her boobs are probably the worst, more udder then breast I`d say..... but I`m sure she`d shine in a sea of ugliness.....

vertex dude, you sound like a sophisticated, argumentative and stubborn jamaatiya... thanks goodness you didn`t migrate to Pakistan..... but I must congratulate you on the ass whooping you have delivered to the Injuns, like they say, one musla better than 20 indoos (counting mohar1 and arjun_m as one)

If people are saying that she is ``good`` (read: modern, progressive, or any other positive adjective) percicely because she doesn`t dress conservativley (the implication being that conservative dress is ``bad`), or is in general non-conservative then of course you`re gonna get an earful, and of course you`re gonna get a forceful counterview from conservatives.

Only idiots like you think people are saying she is ``good`` because she wears short skirts.

#311 by jang on April 27, 2005 11:15am PT


sania mirza is a threat to ferzana and vertex. they are expressing their fear


vertex has taken to lying through his teeth...he claims kalam doesn`t read the koran...

Harish_Hyd :``Prashant123 is the Hindu version of vertex :-)``

Hardly. Vertex is an orthodox muslim. And unlike Vertex , I am always an Indian first , second and third. The hindu identity not as important as the Indian identity. But I certainly will fight for hinduism , because hinduism to me is more of a family than religion , and although I am a non-religious hindu , I am loyal to the family.

Rahul_Capri :``Prashant123 does not base his arguments on facts. Dont be overduly perturbed by him. Hindus like him are as unpatriotic as unpatriotic muslims, and significantly more in number than the same.``

Most of my arguments are based on facts . I may exaggerate , but there is a lot of truth in what I say. And unlike many muslims of India, I have no intention of joining LeT carrying out a suicide attack on Indian Military Academy (IMA) , Dehradoon...(a recent attempt which was folied by the police)....instead joining IMA is one of my future career options. So calling somebody like me `unpatriotic` is silly.

Lastly , Indikad75....sorry bro..I apologise if I hurt your feelings. You are obviously one of the 30 million out of the 150 million. But there was a famous case of a top maulvi in UP who alegedly issued a fatwa against those muslims joining or serving in the Indian Army during the Kargil war.

stukaji,

Greetings...

``I also think you are dead wrong in promoting this ``Muslims will decide who their role models/ideal Muslims are`` stuff. It is only one individual who can decide that, not the community.``

And that was part of the point...the intent was not to say that it was a communal descision, but a descision Muslims (individually, or as part of like-minded groupings even). No doubt there will be a spectra of practices and opinions on the matter...however I am loathed to stay silent if I (perhaps even wrongly) perceive the spectra being reduced to a single ``acceptable`` point (a very similar argument can be made against the mullahs, in fact).

Part of the point was that if people want to say Sania can wear what she wants, then that`s fine and dandy. If people are saying that she is ``good`` (read: modern, progressive, or any other positive adjective) percicely because she doesn`t dress conservativley (the implication being that conservative dress is ``bad`), or is in general non-conservative then of course you`re gonna get an earful, and of course you`re gonna get a forceful counterview from conservatives.

Hope that clears things up...

Hang loose dude...

sania mirza is a threat to ferzana and vertex. they are expressing their fear by covering it up in standard minority victimhood rhetoric (mixed with shahid quality defiance or confidence).

why vertex is simple. he is a believer in orthodoxy, and he is worried that if more girls are inspired by sania role models, he will have his hands full.

ferzanas fear is is more career related. if muslims get inspired to be successful like sania, she loses her favorite whining topic, community victimhood.

nothing to do with shorts..they are using shorts to vent their insecurities.

One of the questions I had posed in the article: Has Sania managed to change people’s views about Muslims? Going by the responses on this board, the answer is NO!

She would have. Unfortunately, FV and Vertex rear their ugly heads every now and then.

Who started screaming about shorts skirts? FV and Vertex. Then they blame Hindus for calling them regressive. Idiots!

Let`s get this straight.

1) Sania is a model Indian because she is the only Indian to get to this level in professional tennis (not because she wears short skirts).

2) Sania is model Indian Muslim because she is the only Indian Muslim to get to this level in professional tennis (not because she wears short skirts).

3) Only regressive Muslims like vertex and FV make Sania`s short skirts an issue.

Hi Farzana:

[I will not even respond to a statement like, “I cannot believe that it is a cheap attempt or a case of gender bias against Muslim woman by a liberal muslim woman” because if such a thought crossed someone’s mind then it is reflective of that mind, not mine.]

Your answer beautifully sums up my response too. I had written my response as a father. I would be very proud of her daughter`s achievement if she ever reaches what Sania achieved. Not everyone markets for the money. Although we all market to gain currency and visibility. Gandhi was a great marketer too. He always knew when to call out liberal British and American media and gain currency and visibility. Looking at the success from the readership of your board, you obviously have a natural way to market your ideas. Many, including I, struggle for what may be natural for you.

It was interesting to read your definition of Modern Hindu. Is there a need to define Modern Hindu, when who is a Hindu is not defined? At times, I feel that there should be concerted effort to not let anyone define Modern Muslim, Liberal Muslim, it probably can be Muslim or Osama Bin Laden or his ilk. On your board here, Vertex claim to be solely incharge of defining Muslim role model to him Sania may be a Indian role model and others can participate. I wonder how would he reconcile with Hamidm`s views on Muslim role model, which may be quite different. It is likely, Hamidm, like me does want anyone to define qualified version of Hindu or Muslim.

Anil

Re: #306 by myself

Sorry, I typed the previous one in a hurry. (running late for an appointment)

I meant to say, there is no equivalence between Muralitharan who plays for the Sri Lankan team) and the Pakistani cricketer (who plays for the Pakistani team).

Sri Lanka does not covet Indian land. Pakistan does.

Sri Lanka is not illegally occupying Indian land. Pakistan is.

So there is no comparison between the two situations.