No Retreat

Re: # 131

Romair, it is defined differently by different schools, the original (English) by Holyoke is about the opinions based on questions and research (instead of blind faith), so yes separation of Beliefs from Governance. In the US, it meant taxing the Churches.

Separation of Church and State is not just a phenomenon associated with Secularism (even friggin Communists do it).

Societies that suppress free thought process are the ones that are the gravest danger to mankind. All belief systems thrive in Secular societies. In terms of your opinion of the wars and conquest by secular governments, what exactly is your point? Colonizations, ethnic cleansings, genocides, holocausts, are not because of secularism but in spite of it. Atrocities have been committed by all sides (look at what Pakis did to Bengalis?). And what Black Sudanese are doing to Blacker Sudanese, or how Wahabis make it a law in their country for every woman to cover herself in black. Do you see where I am going with this? Yes, exactly. If these societies made an effort to base their opinions thru asking questions and research instead of shytting them out of their ass, things will be much better.

Re: #106
I’m sorry, but you’ve missed the gist of my post. Please re-read to see that this is a NON-ISSUE for me; or the very last at best.

1) Again, please re-read my post to understand my views on the subject; once again same advice as previous; the answer to the last part is covered in the answer to your next question.

2) The three basic things that every country needs:
Education: Since Pakistan is an Islamic country – one of only two in the world which was created on a religious Ideology, and tremendous sacrifices were made to achieve this goal – Proper Islamic education should be the unifying factor. It accords them an identity they deserve. Additionally, it informs them of their God-given rights, teaches civility and their ultimate goal in life. Simultaneously they should have access to up-to-date modern sciences to develop rational thought processes for solutions. It should not be limited to teaching the skills and handing out diplomas to earn a living like a plough horse that works, eat, shits, sleeps and is quickly replaced upon old age or death

Security, in every sense of the word: from corruption, lawlessness, internal and external threats

Employment not including prostitution as some wish for on another board :-)~~

Identity of a nation’s people is critical to progress of that society. These three things are the main ingredients of developing individual and national identities. Each supports the other two, which in effect then foster freedom, prosperity, and bring about greatness for individuals and entire community. Similarly the lack or corruption of one destroys the others as well, which in effect produce the current prevalent condition of endemic corruption, lawlessness, moral bankruptcy, and soon the demise of the entire nation.

As you can discern from this chowk, most of our liberal peers are suffering from a severe identity crisis.

They want to be Muslims, but they don’t want to be Muslims…not the one the current military powers do not approve of

They want a spirit without spirituality

They believe in Allah, but do not believe what He decrees beneficial and harmful for them

They would rather be prey to lust than pray to God

They desire law without the order, and vice versa

They want democracy but only if they get to jerk people around, like the previous four governments of PPP and ML following in the footsteps of ZAB. But then they cry foul when the military and MMA does the same

They desire freedom but do not wish to break away from the slavery of their frivolous
desires and the west.

So on and so forth…

It’s their very mindset and lack of Islamic knowledge which allows the current bought out mullahs – not genuine scholars of True Islam – and military to propagate twisted versions of Islam. Conversely, these groups reciprocate by feeding liberal ignorance. Naturally, the people neither grasp the essence of True Islam nor do they understand the non-Islamic concepts of secularism and democracy.

I hope it gets your gears moving. Thanks.

Kulharee #133: ``Romair, Seculars by definition mean that they stand for every voice to be heard and every belief to be practiced and expressed, to do otherwise won’t be secularists. I think you are a little confused about that.``

Actually this is the not the defintion of secularism. It has nothing to do with every voice being heard. It does have something to do with every belief being practiced. Secularism, by its definition, is, ``The view that religious considerations should be excluded from civil affairs or public education.``

It is basically separating religion from the State. It does not in any way separate, lets say, ethnicity, from the state. One ethnicity could dominate others. As was the case in the colonisation of India and other countries by secualr European powers. Nor does it in any way, separate inhumanity from the state. Secular govts. can, and have been, very inhumane also. It just ensure the state`s laws are not based on any particular religion`s definition.

Do keep in mind that some of the biggest colonisations, massacres, occupations etc. have been and continue to be committed by secular groups and govts.. As I have always argued, equating secualrism automatically with, ``goodness`` is as dangerous as equating religion automatically with goodness.........

Re: # 132

Yaar do you really think that I give a hoot about what you think?

Re: # 131

Romair, Seculars by definition mean that they stand for every voice to be heard and every belief to be practiced and expressed, to do otherwise won’t be secularists. I think you are a little confused about that.

What Mullas want is to shove their beliefs down everyone’s throat.

Re: # 130
Their is a saying ``Experience is the worst teacher`` as far as i got to know from u now is tht u have worked wid Mullahs in past so i am correct this time your kissing the ass of Ex-Banker and his party league and trying your best to support his regime.

Kulharee #121: ``Romair, why are you wasting so much of your time on these people,``

Actually, I have nothing against mullahs, as such. To each his own. As long as they don`t bother me, I am not bothered.

I do have something against hypocrites, i.e. people violate their personally defined rules, themselves. And still try to implement those rules onto others. Such individuals` double standards should be highlighted........

I also have something against people who think they have the world figured out, and try to preach it to everyone else. And anyone who does not agree with them, is considered lost, by them. There are plenty of such individuals on this site. And they come from all sides. Perhaps moreso from the secular side than the religious side.

People who debate to just change the other person`s point of view, and will never change their own point of view, are a dangerous lot.........

Re: # 128

Stingie..are you talking from experience? What is lifting testicles mean? As far as I know (caz I organize a lot of conferences for Mullahs) they got no balls, so lifting their testicles will mean lifting hilium filled baloon. Meanwhile, feel free to kiss my ass.

Re: # 127
you are moving from your point it will be better of not wasting time in explaining girl body parts.

Re: # 123
kulharee bhai: I have advise for u go and lift the testicals of PML(Q) you will be better of in that becoz they cry like u after every speech.

Re: # 124

Truly.. don’t you wish that there were more Moulvi Abdul Razzaq Sahibs in Pakistan who would stand up to injustice (big deal man, one Mullah in a country of 150 million to stand up to rapists – congratulations). How can you possibly be so touched by my hatred of the Mullahs while not being able to get the point that what has women running any of your (or anyone else’s) concern? Just try putting everything in perspective – if the male people are so sensitive about seeing girls run in shorts, they should stay home. I can’t tell you how touched I am that you are so concerned about my hatred of Mulahs but you totally oblivious to what the women runner might be feeling. It’s a tough life Bro. Try making someone else’s bed and try sleeping in that too. Try standing by the side of your sisters, for once, it is not that hard. They are not whores, and there is a lot of value to their being. Try judging them as a whole package, and you might be surprised to know that there’s a lot more to them than just a pair of tits a wobbly ass and a vagina. I wish you luck.

Re: # 125
I don`t think Urstruly he will get this in his freaky head one can`t help your cause Romair. Your have to know the relation between husband and wife and boy and girl, you are better of with newyork times comics so enjoy that.



Urstruly i just mailed u today from my hotmail account so plz consider that mail.

Re: # 119 Romair

Ok, the only concession that there is, is that a man and his wife can run a marthon if no one is watching.

Re: # 121 kulharee bhai

I beg you to get out of your cocoon of hate. Your damaging no one but yourself.

I don`t want to rub it in your face but I cant help but bring this into your knowledge that the only man who was MAN enough to raise his voice against the oppression and tyrranny that was unleashhed upon helpless MukhtaraN mai was the Imam Sahib of the local mosque - Moulvi Abdul Razzaq Sahib. He was the one who stood up on the pulpit and refuse to surrender to this ultimate tyrrany.

Please read:

http://mukhtaran-bibi.biography.ms/