Parents and the Pill

In fact, the Pakistanis have a slight advantage over the Indians in terms of looks which leads to far greater success with women. By the way, all of us got arranged or quasi-arranged marriages in the end when we wanted to settle down.

Amit, you are hilarious! Gem after gem. You must love making a fool of yourself.

In fact, the Pakistanis have a slight advantage over the Indians in terms of looks which leads to far greater success with women. By the way, all of us got arranged or quasi-arranged marriages in the end when we wanted to settle down.

Amit, you are hilarious! Gem after gem. You must love making a fool of yourself.

Amit #408: ``You wrote,``as ridiculous as someone believing that hamidm actual had two sexual partners before he got married``
Why is that so ridiculous?``

You need to look at the factors under consideration:

-Hamidm
-Pakistan
-Hamidm
-The figure 2
-Hamidm

And finally, the fact that there is always some confusion about individuals who have any association with NWFP, and their lack of skills in differentiating between female and male partners............So you need to keep that fact in mind also............

P.S. Doesn`t anyone have a sense of humor anymore..................

Re:Romair #406

You wrote,``as ridiculous as someone believing that hamidm actual had two sexual partners before he got married``

Why is that so ridiculous? If you spend your youth in India/Pakistan that may be the case, although I am hearing that India has changed a lot these days. But if you come to the US for grad school and are single, it is really no big deal to go out and date, espcially if you living like that for several years. After all you are single and lonely, you have no family constraints and you are living in an open society. Unless you choose to be celibate or you are hideous looking, ultra geeky or have B.O., it is very normal to go out. In fact, you get peer pressure to go out and have some fun.

When I came to US for grad school, I was living in New York. My best friend was a Pakistani guy from Lahore. He was tall and a good look chap and he was always dating someone. In fact, the Pakistanis have a slight advantage over the Indians in terms of looks which leads to far greater success with women. By the way, all of us got arranged or quasi-arranged marriages in the end when we wanted to settle down.

Re:soysauce #405

You wrote,``Life is what happens when you are waiting for it to happen.``

This is very true. We only live once and we will all die one day anyway. If we play safe throughout our lives, what is the point of living? It makes sense to at least taste a little bit of what life has to offer before settling in on the safest option.

Basically it is all a question of balance. I do believe that if you have never fallen in love with someone or had a romantic relationship, you are missing out big time on one of the most fascinating aspects of human existence. If you have an arranged marriage early in your life, you miss out a lot, which is what I suspect has happened with Romair. At the same time, having a few romantic relationships does not imply that you become promiscous with multiple partners. You can have a few flings, experience life and then get married like a good boy and settle down :-). At least when you are dying and your whole life flashes by you, you will know that you got a flavor of all that it has to offer.

soysauce #405: ``Life is what happens when you are waiting for it to happen. The people who ``strayed`` are probably a lot less traumatised than you are from merely watching. Your fat baby comment is quite telling. You decided you could not have a fat baby from a lot of research. That says a lot about how misguided you are in your analytical skills. Besides what`s with fat babies any way? ``

Bhai sahib, I was joking............I think most people were able to pick up on the humor.........Do you really think anyone carries out research to figure out how to have fat babies..........That`s almost as ridiculous as someone believing that hamidm actual had two sexual partners before he got married.......Obviously he his joking also. The real number is at least two lower than the figure he mentioned..........

Re: # 378 Romair
You are one of the better writers here. I`m refering not to your interacts but to your stories and poems. As with all good writers, you seem to suffer from severe hangups. Life is what happens when you are waiting for it to happen. The people who ``strayed`` are probably a lot less traumatised than you are from merely watching. Your fat baby comment is quite telling. You decided you could not have a fat baby from a lot of research. That says a lot about how misguided you are in your analytical skills. Besides what`s with fat babies any way?
I have a daughter, a preteen, who is skinny and shooting up a few inches every year. It`s a joy to watch her grow up from up close. She is a product of her own culture and circumstances, a human person with her own independent thinking, needing occasional nudges and guidance but otherwise quite sure of herself. It`s a privilege to be so close to her watching her slowly evolve into an adult. Exasperating at times, but enjoyable most of the time. We have no intention of controlling her molding her into a chimera of dreams that we couldn`t achieve or even the ones we achieved. Wherever she goes, she will have our support. We will be the wind on her sails.
I`d urge you to rethink your attitude to another person that you choose to bring into this world. Think how different you turned out to be from your parents and none the worse for the wear.

Re: NipperTheDog1981

If you are curious where this sad clown gets his inspiration:

• 1541: Francis Xavier landed in Goa - sent there by Ignatius Loyola of Jesuit order under the direction of the King João III of Portugal.
• 1545: Francis Xavier comes to the following conclusions that Hindus are an ``unholy race`` that they are ``They are liars and cheats to the very backbone.``. that`` the Indians being black themselves, consider their own color the best`` and also that
``they believe that their gods are black. On this account the great majority of their idols are as black as black can be, and moreover are generally so rubbed over with oil as to smell detestably, and seem to be as dirty as they are ugly and horrible to look at.``
He writes to Rome to install inquisition in Goa immediately.
• 1560: Viceroy`s building modified to become the palace of inquisition with 200 cells with residence of the first inquisitor, house of secret, house of doctrine, any number of cells, and other special ones: of secret, of penitence; of perpetual confinement; of the tortures etc. Inquisition installed with powers higher than those of viceroys.
• Apr-2 1560: Viceroy D Constantine de Braganca orders that all Brahmins should be thrown out of Goa and other areas under Portuguese control.
• Feb-7 1575: Governor Antonio Morez Barreto,issues orders that the propeties of those Hindus whose ``presence was prejudicial to Christianity`` would be confiscated.
• 1585 : The Third Concilio Provincial adopts a resolution asking the king of Portugal to banish from Goa `the Brahmins, physicians and other infidels` who the Church finds as an obstacle to convert the `the heathens` to the `only true faith`.
• Jan-31, 1620: Portuguese government orders that ``...no Hindu, of whatever nationality or status he may be, can or shall perform marriages in this city of Goa, nor in the islands or adjacent territories of His Majesty...``
• 1625: Governor Francisco Barreto, issues orders that `bar Hindus from seeking employment` in the Portuguese held Indian territory and Portuguese officials were ordered not to `use the services of any infidel in matters of his office anyway`

#400 by HMV1981

[Its quite interesting that most of female posters here quite unanimously seem to state that lot of ``Western`` social ills inclusive of pre-marital sex..perhaps even ``uncontrolled sex``..whatever the hell that means...can and does occur in our societies. ]

Everybody knows that and nobody has denied that, you psychopathic turd. It has always been there in every human society.

It’s a question of extents.

And the philosophy of where you draw the line.

Howard Stern thinks American society is too conservative and hypocritical. Because they are disallowing his show on regular TV.

That’s HIS value system. He would think YOU are a conservative hypocrite.

Also, not everybody believes in airing their dirty laundry in public. Because it can have consequences.

As I said before, blind imitation is not going to get you anything but contempt from your masters.

Shallow $hithead.

romair:

a pertinent question in the light of your various posts

#228 by temporal on May 1, 2005 7:32pm PT
romair:
you mention your daughter/s in your posts…how many and what ages?

#378 by Romair on May 3, 2005 7:52pm PT

No, I don`t have any children.
***

thank you!...my comments later when i can spare a little time:)

Extra marital affairs and pre-marital sex in des is not common among middle class Indians. It is the domain of lower and upper class Indians.

People who claim to know desis who have had many sexual partners must belong to rich families.

DPS scandal happened in DPS. It did not happen in Kendriya Vidyalaya.

Its quite interesting that most of female posters here quite unanimously seem to state that lot of ``Western`` social ills inclusive of pre-marital sex..perhaps even ``uncontrolled sex``..whatever the hell that means...can and does occur in our societies. Posts by Amrita and the last one #399 with the quote, ``...but from what I have seen, denial appears to be the driving force``..are but examples.

Perhaps the very nature of our societies mean that they often far more than men have to be very secretive about such activities and as someone else has said earlier, it is often the women in society who one way of the other learn of and discuss some of more ``hidden things`` that occur in desi families..local communities and greater societies that their male ``guardians of honour`` counterparts do not like to think of, or simply pretend they dont exist.

Dear Zehra,

I have been around on chowk for a while, though I hardly interact anymore. The reasons are various, one of them being the indiscriminate ``outbursts`` that one encounters on the threads, quite like the one we are witnessing now.

As a woman who`s never been abroad, I honestly can`t make judgements about the way things are over there. However, I do know what it`s like over here, in Pakistan. I can`t really speak for every parent or every child in Karachi, but from what I have seen, denial appears to be the driving force. Someone pointed out on this board that society does not have an opinion as long as everything is being done discreetly. I personally know quite a few women who are either on the pill or carry condoms, as uncool as that may be. In some cases, their mothers are aware of the fact that their daughters are sleeping around. While they may not be happy with the way things are, they are wise enough to know that it`s better to be safe than sorry, which I think is a sensible decision. If they`re going to have sex, why not make sure they are being ``safe``?

This may sound rather naive to you, but I really had no idea that the pill was also for menstrual cramps. I stick to advil, even though my needlessly nosy aunts are of the opinion that it probably has serious side effects. Let their opinions be damned, I say. When I am in pain, I will take medication, side effects or no side effects.

Having said that, I think your character dissection on this board is sad and disrespectful. Why you choose to use the pill is your business and your business alone, though I have to admit that your vehement refusal to disclose why you use it is rather intriguing ;). Perhaps that was your intention and I think the results have been more than satisfactory *double wink*.

On a side note, I have to wonder where one should draw the line when it comes to knowing more about your child`s life. I suppose as long as they are living under your roof and are dependent on you, you have all the right in the world to know what they are up to. I still have issues with that idea. Feeding your child, providing for him/her and making sure he/she goes to a good school/college is not a matter of ehsaan. It`s a choice that you make when you decide to have a kid in the first place. I know it`s all very well for me to say all this when I don`t have children of my own, but I really do think that couples should give serious thought to what raising a child entails, before actually bringing one into this world. Having children in desi societies is such a compulsion that most of us don`t really think about the consequences. Being responsible for another life is a HUGE, HUGE deal, far bigger than what we imagine it to be, and if you really can`t live up to that responsiblity; if you don`t know where to draw the line or when to stop controlling them, then you really shouldn`t have children. Heck, I`m not even sure I want them, because knowing me, I`d probably make a real mess of it.

You say you don`t have regular internet access. However, I do hope that you will read this post, because believe it or not, I really like reading your work.

Best,

Samina

Re Achut*ya......arra Mr. RSS...go drown in your pseudo Hindu Fanatic neurosis somewhere else....honestly you old goat..what does the Goan Inquistion have to do with the topic of this board. 45 and you` re like this...are u sure u have a wife and family....god knows how they cope with your f**ked perosonality. Honestly...please....please I beg of you..take ur head out of your ass...and if you manage for that long enough..take a few deep breaths and then read posts like #386 by Amrita...the essential quote being:

``So the culture of des is not superior but that culture of goras allows woman to do same things in the open without fear.``

The doesnt sum up everything but it goes to the heart of the problems in our communities.

Lastly old man..why do I laugh uncontrollably at ur posts....well the reason is initially I thought it was a bit sad that 45 year old man would sink to the level of some xenophobic 16 yr old Shiv Sena hooligan..but after that Ive realised you are a bonafide nutcase...with hardly a hope in hell for change...so u mad old comedian...why the f**K in are u in the land of the free when social mores of your backward village in Hindustan are more appealing...``f**king hypocrite...so jao old man and go take ur rightful position at the head of the RSS (it looks like these buffoons need a leadership change anyways judging by their recent squabbles)...but Im betting wifey and beti quite like their lives in Dubya`s land....so final advice talk to them about this issue...u might be surprised at what they have to say...and then come back here if you have something meanful to add to the debate at hand.

Some actual data on the subject (though a bit dated): ``Attitudes Toward Nomarital Sex in 24 Countries; Journal of Sex Research, Nov, 1998 by Eric D. Widmer, Judith Treas, Robert Newcomb`` http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2372/is_4_35/ai_53390352/pg_1

The paper studies attitudes towards non-marital sex in 22 Western countries and 2 Asian countries (presumably attitudes influence behaviour). It groups the 22 Western countries into 4 groups, and interestingly puts the two Asian countries (Japan and Phillipines) into their own unique group.

``Scholars have pointed out that many societies around the world share common normative attitudes toward sex, including the incest taboo, condemnation of adultery, and a general concern for regulating sexuality, particularly outside wedlock (Levi-Strauss, 1969; Murdock, 1960). At the same time, research has shown that attitudes toward premarital sex, homosexuality, masturbation, petting, and other sexual behavior are not constants, but present different patterns from culture to culture (Ford & Beach, 1951).``
...
``... comparative research has repeatedly shown that Scandinavian students are more tolerant of premarital sex than are their American counterparts (Christensen & Gregg, 1970; Schwartz, 1993; Weinberg, Lottes, & Shaner, 1995). A 37-country study reported that non-Western societies (China, India, Indonesia, Iran, Taiwan, and Palestinian Arabs) value chastity highly in a potential mate, that Western European countries (Sweden, Norway, Finland, the Netherlands, West Germany, and France) attach little importance to prior sexual experience, and that Ireland, Japan, and Poland fall somewhere in between (Buss, 1989).``
...
``this study has the benefit of data from a standardized questionnaire collected in 24 countries from large and nationally representative samples....the 24 countries can be adequately described as belonging to only six clusters (groups).``
...
``The Teen Permissives` cluster, which encompasses Germany (East and West), Austria, Sweden, and Slovenia, is distinguished by relatively high levels of acceptance of teenage sex and premarital sex...The Sexual Conservatives` cluster, which includes Ireland, Northern Ireland, Poland, and the United States, shows relatively strong disapproval for all types of nonmarital sex...the Sexual Conservatives present a U-shaped curve for premarital sex, indicating a polarization of opinion (people either strongly approve or strongly disapprove of premarital sex, there are few people with moderate opinions)....The Homosexual Permissives` cluster consists of the Netherlands, Norway, the Czech Republic, Canada, and Spain... what distinguishes the countries in this cluster is high levels of acceptance of homosexuality... The Moderate Residuals` cluster contains the remaining eight countries (Australia, Great Britain, Hungary, Italy, Bulgaria, Russia, New Zealand, Israel)``
...
``The only two Asian nations, Japan and the Philippines, each form a unique, single-country cluster. This demonstrates that they differ not only from Western countries, but also from one another. The Philippines is set apart by particularly conservative attitudes toward all forms of nonmarital sex. For Japan, it is the respondents` propensity to label premarital sex as only sometimes wrong rather than expressing strong approval or disapproval that makes it a singleton. We are hard put to interpret this unique pattern, but it is consistent with one scholar`s observation that the Japanese view premarital sex with concern only when it is indiscreet or conflicts with social responsibilities (White, 1993).``

Re Achut*ya......arra Mr. RSS...go drown in your pseduo Hindu Fanatic neurosis somewhere else....honestly you old goat..what does the Goan Inquistion have to do with the topic of this board. 45 and you` re like this...are u sure u have a wife and family....god knows how they cope with your f**ked perosonality. Honestly...please....please I beg of you..take ur head out of our ass...and if you manage for that long enough..take a few deep breaths and then read posts like #386 by Amrita...the essential quote being:

``So the culture of des is not superior but that culture of goras allows woman to do same things in the open without fear.``

The doesnt sum up everything but it goes to the heart of the problems in our communities.

Lastly old man..why do I laugh uncontrollably at ur posts....well the reason is initially I thought it was a bit sad that 45 year old man would sink to the level of some xenophobic 16 yr old Shiv Sena hooligan..but after that Ive realised you are a bonafide nutcase...with hardly a hope in hell for change...so u mad old comedian...why the f**K in are u in the land of the free when social mores of your backward village in Hindustan are more appealing...``f**king hypocrite...so jao old man and go take ur rightful position at the head of the RSS (it looks like these buffoons need a leadership change anyways judging by their recent squabbles)...but Im betting wifey and beti quite like their lives in Dubya`s land....so final advice talk to them about this issue...u might be surprised at what they have to say...and then come back here if you have something meanful to add to the debate at hand.