To Saneeya Hussain (August 13, 1954-April 20, 2005)

Cayenne’s world!

http://www.cbn.com/700club/Guests/Bios/Joseph_DSouza042205.asp
Since 1998, persecution against Christians in India has escalated. Churches have been burned, pastors are beaten, and nuns and women of the church are raped. In recent years, this specific persecution has increased even more. Church properties in one Indian state were taken over and the graves of the deceased were dug up and desecrated. Images on the Dalit Freedom Network’s promotional CD show men whose heads lay open from severe beatings and women who weep at the death of loved ones.
Newspaper articles tell of young Dalit men fishing in a pond used by higher caste members were rushed by an angry mob. Mob members captured the young men and beat them. When the father of one of the angry attackers learned that the young men were being held, he and other adults confronted them. The older men urinated into the boys’ shoes and forced them to drink. A woman was raped because she was a Dalit. Even though the crime was acknowledged, no effort was made to find her attacker because she was just a Dalit.

The Dalits in Tamilnadu and across India have been angered by the growth of the inhuman atrocities against them. The lynching of the five Dalits in Haryana(that led to conversions to Christianity, Buddhism and Islam in Haryana), the forcing of Dalits to eat human excrement in Tamilnadu and the statements of the Kanchipuram Shankaracharya that the Dalits should learn to live in the ``state`` (caste) they were born

Re: # 19

How many christians were you complicit in ``killing `` today in pakistan, by your unwillingness to accept that you are a nation of christian killers?.The christian holocaust is happening as we speak in your country.Do you care?

cayenne:

i think i understand your concern now...personally i think it is a very clear statement but just for you i have added `anywhere in the world` would you reaffirm it now?

I am against the loss of a single life be it at the hands of an individual, institution or state anywhere in the world

Dear `temporal` sir/madam,
I prefer to think that you are a decent human being, of compassion and understanding, who would condemn in no uncertain terms the killing of three of your fellow citizens ,`cause of their faith, by your brethren in cold blood, in no uncertain terms.Also, an admission that minorities be they of a faith, or a particluar sect are in danger of their lives every day, as we speak, in your country and that you would defer pointing a finger at other nations and societies, grappling with simliar issues of race and religion.In other words, i am asking you to be a decent human being and show compassion and understanding towards all, regardless of race, religion or national origin.If you would be an example, even on this site, many of your countrymen would defer vicious attacks against India, when they are yet to put their own house in order. Or, even against America, where similar issues exist.

Sincerely,

cayenne

#16:

i understand why it is impossible for you to utter these words:)

I am against the loss of a single life be it at the hands of an individual, institution or state

Re: # 15

You`re such a PHONY!.I`d rather sit at a table and drink a cup of tea with my maid servant than with you and the likes of you.Her only `fault` is that she was born poor.She and those from her background have more dignity and compassion than you and the likes of you can ever muster.You really demeaned yourself by typing this interact, atleast in my eyes.Limousine liberal, pak style, i say what??.

cayenne:

since you are new around here let me just remind you of something that you may not know about some of us

in addition to this: I am against the loss of a single life be it at the hands of an individual, institution or state that you have very conveninetly overlooked because it may not sit well with your personal ambitions, agenda or world-view... i have been continuously (and for some friends irritatingly) harping on occupying army in pakistan...nothing would improve in pakistan till the occupying army is housed in its proper place...

now, let me explain nothing

pakistan has a myriad of problems...chief among them the following:

* lack of strong, functioning and trustworthy institutions (that india has been developing since 1947)
* distrust and intolerance of government, institutions, individuals
* absence of accountability, goodwill and tolerance
* runaway population, lack of services/facilities for the ordinary citizens

some of the above are inter-dependent and overlapping...but you get the picture?...unless pakistan has at the least an independent judiciary, legislature and civil services (police and other law enforecement agencies):

* no religious minority or sect would feel safe in pakistan
* women would continue to be treated as chattels
* absence of timely and fair legal remeides will lead to violations of law
* civil society will continue its erosion
* rule of jungle will hold sway

hence my seemingly incessant hammerings at the occupying army...it must go...it must go!...

-only then can pakistanis really hope to embark on the long and arduous rebuilding process
-only then can intolerance be replaced by accomodation
-only then can a ray of hope can shine
-only then can national institutions reaffirm and offer hope for the minorities, the downtrodden, the disenfranchised, the women
-only then can (we) pakistanis begin to crawl back and be a good neighbour, a good corporate and world citizen

hope you and others now understand the perpetuating harms of the occupying army

temporal: thank you for sharing that article.

Re: # 12

Disclosing my age will not negate the fact that three christians were recently murdered on account of their faith in pakistan, very recently, and not a peep from the so-called educated, intellectual, secular and elite, they who troll this site, those from pakistan.So, i have to assume that a christian`s life in pakistan is dispensable and does not even merit mention, but some upper middle class woman, who married a brazilian and fled, does.Sad she died an untimely death, but didn`t pastor Babar, Emanuel and Masih?.Do you have a consience?.I prefer to think you do.

Re: # 10

cayenne,

how old are you ? .......... seventeen ?

this from the sunday news - please don`t mind the cut n paste

To Saneeya`s parents

A message from Saneeya Hussain`s Brazilian sister-in-law, Luciana Ferraz in Sao Paolo

By Luciana Ferraz

Dear Saneeya`s parents:

Now that Luis, Saneeya and Fazeela have left, now that all friends went home, there is a strange, peaceful silence in my house. I stayed all these days without writing anything. Every day I opened my email and read all messages from the Yahoo group about Saneeya. And, of course, I cried a lot. Now I`d like to say something (even in English!) but not to Saneeya (because fortunately we had enough time to talk and she already knows how much I love her and you already know how wonderful she was). I`d like to say something to you, her parents, because if Saneeya was so nice, it was also the result of your wonderful job.

In these days of hurry, of modernity, of such inequality between people, how did you manage to teach so many values? How did you manage to teach Saneeya to love reading, to love cinema, the theatre, museums...? How did you manage to teach her this love to discover news ways of life?

While Saneeya was living with us, her eyes were always open to learn about how people were. She didn`t criticise anybody, even the fat woman who walked with a funny (and small!) bikini on the beach (how much we laughed during my five days in Salvador!). She was equally nice with simple and important people, with children and old people.

Even though she was far from home, she always had good words about you. She read a lot of books about your country and she talked proudly of it -- although she complained sometimes about the difference of treatment between man and woman. In a very nice way, she also criticised the superficial relationships between people, so common in our days. She wanted balance, I think.

You and your country were always in our talks. One day we went to a museum and she read and explained with joy all the pieces that were written in Urdu. She was always saying: ``Isn`t it marvellous?``

Even in the weekends, we loved to talk and eat foods from your country. How well she cooked and how much she opened my eyes to different tastes! She was also very proud of her mommy`s cooking!

Our taste for deserts...!!! What a swell partner she was!

Saneeya was never in a bad mood, always laughing, really very happy in her wedding and life, although both planed to move somewhere. If she could choose, I am sure that she would have chosen to live in Cape Town...

Well, why I am saying these things? Just to say to you that, although your heart is hurting, you need to know how much Saneeya did to us: she showed that life is bigger than our little everyday worries. She taught us that we can love all religions, all cultures, all social classes. Because love can be bigger than our little day-to-day problems, little differences that can only cause wars, sadness, fear...

But do you think that only Saneeya was special? No, no, no. You should see the integrity, the strength, the courage of Fazeela. With Fazeela here, even with so much suffering, we still learned from her. She took care of us three: Luis, Flavia and I. You can imagine how much she suffered waiting for you to wake up to give the bad news. Although a doctor, although she knew better than us the gravity of the case, she never lost the hope. Sometimes she needed to be so strong to be able to give the news that she might sound a little cold from some point of view. But this was not true. She was suffering a lot, although she could still talk to the doctors, still knew how to be nice to them, even if she disagreed with something. She taught us how we could get things without being impolite, being secure, firm.

At the same time, she never forgot her kids, she was always worried about them. She could feel happy to listen her daughter laughing when she told her the way Jonas ate his hot dog!

Fazeela cooked for us sometimes, even when she was tired. Our maid said that even the way she cut the food was the same as Saneeya`s. Did you, mommy, know the influence you had in your daughters? Far from home they still cut as you taught...

Here in Western world, we sometimes criticise the way woman are treated in the East. Now I know that they are wrong in some way. The newspapers, the magazines, understand reality with a wrong eye, with foreign eyes...

What did I learn from Fazeela? That we women can work in silence, as Fazeela did. She never fought with my brother, even when he was too nervous or even wrong in his thinking. But she respected, she taught me how to work in silence, how not to lose my mind. She was strong, she gave us serenity in desperate times. She looked after the plants and flowers in the same sweet way Saneeya did. She looked at my son, at my sister Flavia`s son, with the same sweet eyes that Saneeya did. How did you bring up such beautiful people? Please tell me. I want my sons to learn these tender way of seeing the world.

I can imagine how hard it was for Fazeela being in different country, with a different language, with so many people at home, so many telephone calls, so much suffering. Even when my son or even I forgot to wash hands before lunch, she never criticised. Can you imagine a doctor seeing these things? Not to mention the fact that she was staying with my very disorderly brother!

So... in these sad days, your daughters still teach us. And with all my heart I can only to say thanks to you. The world can be better if all people were like you and your daughters.

Much love, Luciana

Tell Nazeeha that I want to meet her. But in a way I already know who I will meet.

Re: # 9

I`m really not interested in opening a new thread or discussing these events.I understand your loss and respect your sentiments.Why is Ms.Hussain so special as compared to say, a Mr.Arshad Masih.I don`t know him from Adam ,likewise i don`t know Ms.Hussain, but is she more important than a Pastor Babar?.I`m sure Ms. Hussain wouldn`t mind sharing space with an ordinary David Emanuel.Both of them might be at the same place right now , for all you know.

I know how your countrymen have beaten up on all of us indians on this site for the unfortunate incidents our brothers and sisters(hindu and muslim) in Gujarat were involved in.Yet, people are being butchered in cold blood as late as April for their faith in your country, and not a word from people like you and your kind,the liberal, intellectual and elite, i dare say, of pakistan.No one from pakistan on this site gave us indians understanding as we were trying to explain Godhra.And, you have the guts to DEMAND that i repeat after you....!!!

If all Gujarati hindus are guilty by association for Godhra,your hands are bloody too and guilty by association for the brutal killings of innocent christians in your country.Deal with it.I will not respond to your interacts , so please don`t bother replying to thid one.Peace.

#8:

read, understand and repeat after me:

I am against the loss of a single life be it at the hands of an individual, institution or state

as i have done on chowk many times...and then we will discuss this pamphlet from pondicherry...but not here...open a new thread on unplugged...

leave this for the memory of ms hussain please

t

Re: # 7

Tell that to the families of pastor Babar, David Emanuel and Arshad Masih.Propriety indeed!!!.God knows how many other innocent lives are being snuffed out `cause of their faith in your country.

While you dedicate this article to the memory of your friend, i dedicate this interact to the lives of the three christians that i know of,by way of a pamphlet, who were brutally murdered by your brethren in their country, namely pakistan.May God bless their souls.

cayenne:

have some sense of propriety please...did you not read this in bold?...what is wrong with you?...am sure there are enough places where you can discuss the other issues!

To Saneeya Hussain (August 13, 1954-April 20, 2005)

as for jay prakash thackeray...over the years he has amply demonstrated where he speaks from


beena:

thanks for a heartfelt tribute

Beena Sarwar......While you mourn the loss of someone whom you cared for, there are those among you, your countrymen who are being butchered on account of their faith.Common, put your words into action and do something about the following :

Pastor Shamoun Babar and his driver Daniel Emanuel of the Ilam Dost Foundation, Peshawar, NWFP were found dead dumped on a road in Peshawar April 07, 2005.Their bodies were mutilated, nose and ears cut off and bullet holes pierced their bodies.The two were found in Mulazai village in Nasirbagh.

---

On Easter Sunday,March 27, 2005 there was an attack on the Apostolic Church near Khamba , Lahore, in which a few gunmen opened fire killing one Arshad Masih and severely injuring seven other worshippers.

Why?.Would only women and issues revolving around the same interest you?.Are you biased and sexist that you will ignore raising your voice against the brutal killing of these two men.After all without your father`s involvement in your birth, you wouldn`t have been born.Are you an activist, a journalist or someone who cares about your society?.These killings are a shame.As bad as Godhra was for us indians.Do your bit to remove the shame from your society.My plea.