Islam vs. Islam

fuzair: 36
raining of pigs:
`` hUm toa sumjhhay thhay kay barsaat meiN barsay gee sharaab
aaee barsaat toa, aee barsaat toa, barsaat ney dil toaRR diyaa!``

AllUn Fakir rocks. So does Nashanaas. and Shehki alongwith that Iranian-girl (Can`t recall the name); and Abida Parveen; and Tina Sani. and Farida KhanUm; and remember Raushan Araa Begum?

I was fortunate to have been presented a tape of Mukhtar Begum--Nur Jehaan`s mentor.

hamidm2 , though,does have a point there about Lata , but then I do not want to start an Indo-Pak nuclear war. Despite what he says about her she does have the range & a superb artistic acumen--despite her soprano vocal-chords [people do like the Koel notes; nothing can be done about it; BeeGees & so many in the west are popular for same reason].

He is damn right about some of our bay-suraa but baa-surah Quaris.

and hamidm2 is just assuming that I do not like ``western`` music. There is nothing western or eastern about music. Indian music is , alongwith its aborginal music, is also `western` influenced--meaning Iranian, Turkish, arabic, and afghani. I will resist the temptation here to drop names so as just not to drag the discussion. Music lovers in the `west` as well, including the youngones, have their needles stuck in the seventies.

After that music is on a drip there as well.

hamidm2:
About Saigol, Abida, and `classical` music of India, all I can say is:

`` Haaey kumbukht toO ney pee hee naheeN`` ( not english valaa pee)

hamidm #54 Whaddya mean mullahs cant sing. See this flea-ridden little man that our good hound dog mushy brought home - he is probably singing like a nightingale right now, before an appreciative audience of interrogators. mullahs can sing - they just need the right ambience (provided by police thanas all across Pakistan). :-)

Re: # 36

fuzair mian,

....... i am disappointed - may the pigs land on your head and may you rot in a music wasteland where the only instrument is the daf !

........... look, nobody is arguing that every genre of music has its followers - except idiocies like indian classical wailing and bushmen clicks which have fan clubs of twenty one malnourished natives in loin cloths and ten naked pygmies respectively - but popular music will always have wide appeal among the masses .............. i loved alun faqir`s duet with muhammad ali shekhi, but that was then and even then he was no match for people like rafi and that silly nasal toned indian banshee, lata ..........heck, he couldn`t even come close to alamgir who, astagfirullah, pranced around lon stage ike a brown mick jagger high on ten cups on tea ..........

............whether we like it or not, western music sets the trend and muhammad ali shekhi was always more popular than poor alun faqir ............ nobody paid any attention to nusrat, the fat man from faisalabad, until he changed his tune ............as for his fat female counterpart, popularized by the ameer-ul-momineen, i don`t know anyone under forty who listened to her ......... let`s not forget that the under twenty crowd is the biggest consumer of music in every society - yes, even saudi arabia ! ........... this phenomenon is worldwide: the kids on the streets of tokyo have little use for kabuki and are more likely to be found dancing the night away to techno music in rappongi .........and believe it or not, shanghai has a house of blues and jazz and a cotton club along with the shanghai symphony orchestra ............

........... it is silly to wring our hands and moan about the ``westernization`` of our music and the loss of our ``culture`` when the younger generation is going to do what they are going to do.......... every time i go to pakistan my nieces and nephews are raving about some new group -epi, fakhar, jawad, master and billah ...... i have no idea who these peoople are and some of them sound pretty bad, but then, i am not fifteen ............ i remember my father turning up his nose at the popular indian music we listened to in the seventies - as far as he was concerned music had died with saigol and talat mahmood !...........but even he had no use for indian classical music - come to think of it, of the hundreds of people i know - friends and family - i don`t know a single person who actually listens to ustad whatshisname ali khan !

............. in some ways the younger generation is more open minded than old foggies like me (and you?) ........... my daughter, who is a music afficionado with 5000 plus songs on her i-pod, has a rather eclectic taste - everything from bob dylan, louis armstrong, the back street boys, white stiripes, the beatles and, yes, the new bhangra coming out of england ..........so i took a chance and listened to the kings of leon, and guess what ?..... they are pretty darn good !.......

........... people like echoboom are so consumed by their hatred of the ``other`` that they actually think the recitation of the koran by a castrated qari is better music than bob dylan singing tweedle dee and tweedle dum ! .......... contrary to the popular myth, the music did not die with buddy holly .....................

Re: Echoboom #22

Ok folks, take an umbrella when you go out; the flying pigs are out in force today as I, again, agree with Echoboom.

OK, here`s the acid test: What does Echoboom think of Allun (sp?) Fakir?

Re: # 34
drLokraj Bhai
Sufi music and poetry are food for the soul.They trancend the barriers of religion ,politics and I think, even language.Those who are hungry will search for it.The great Rumi said once, ``sufi music to me is like the creaking of the doors of Heaven``.An ignorant fool in the audience said i dont like the creaking sound of doors. Rumi replied ,``thats because you hear them shut ,I hear them open``
BTW Have you heard Raqse bismil by Abida Parveen?I loved it.

30: hamidm2
Its not you speaking,its the education you received and the values you learnt.

tumhari aur tum jaisaoN ki badqismati hae agar tum NooraN aur Baker Ali kay baray meiN nahiN jaantay.

31:echoboom
Thanks
baazicha-e-atfaal hae duniya meray aagay
hota hae shab-o-roz tamaasha meray aagay

To my indian brothers and sisters in the US.....DO NOT march along with pak`s in Frisco, for all of you`ll get profiled.Also, i don`t think anything other than formal diplomatic relations with pakistan is not advisable and in our (indian) interests.Individual friendships are ok, i guess and are unavoidable.Yesterday an ISI agent was turned in by locals in Old Delhi.He had fake currency and drugs on his possession.Pakistan has not given MFN trade status to india even at its` own loss, based on some `core` issue.What is the purpose of SAARC and SAFTA??.

Pakistan is responsible for losses amounting into tens of millions of dollars due to piracy of indian movies and music especially Bollywood products.It is not the `rich` producers who are affected the most, but the average make-up artist, musician, stunt man and movie `extra` who lose out in terms of added salaries and incentives.Inspite of appeals by the indian govt. and international agencies incly. the US FBI being involved pakistan has continued to resist and video piracy of indian entertainment products goes on unchecked.

Please don`t get carried away by the false bonhomies of our western neighbour.Think about all of us living in india and working hard to convert an almost ``written off`` nation into one of the foremost nations of the world economically and culturally.Your actions in supporting those who wish us and do harm to us, sends a wrong signal to the western world as if indo-pak rivalry is just a petty by-product of partition and history.This threat is very real, paks are consumed by jealousy towards india and at any time , will use any opportunity to cause us harm.There are , i`m sure, good paks who do wish us well.But , they are in a minority, that`s for sure.I request all indians who plan to attend this rally to think carefully and rationally and consider the millions of us in India who are at risk, due to misplaced actions by people like yourselves who live in the west.Thank you very much.

March this Sunday


> http://www.friendsofsouthasia.org/events/indpakpeace/
>
>
>
> Ind-Pak Peace Solidarity March in San Francisco
> Sunday May 15, 1pm
>
> Join us for a ~3 mile march starting at
> Mission St/16th St BART [map] and ending at Gadar
> Memorial Hall in Japantown [map].
> (download html flyer)
>
> March Details
>
> Start: Mission St at 16th St
> End: 5 Wood St (Near Wood St at Geary
> Blvd)
>
> We will start congregating around 1pm,
> and start walking at 1.30pm. You can
> join
> the march anywhere along the route. At 3pm, at the
> end
> of the march, we will have a short rally outside
> Gadar
> Memorial Hall.
>
> Route:
> Head West on 16th St - towards Valencia
> St  - go 0.9 mi
> Turn Right at Castro St - go 0.5 mi
> Bear Right at Divisadero St - (Castro
> St
> becomes Divisadero St) -  go 0.9 mi
> Turn Left at Geary Blvd - go 0.5 mi
> Turn Right at Wood St - go 0.2 mi
>
> Map: (Courtesy Google Maps,
> click on the map for larger version)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Join us to:
>
>
>
>
> Show solidarity with the participants in the
> India-Pakistan Peace March, who are marching  across
> the subcontinent with the goals of establishing
> people-to-people contact,  negating the tendencies
> of
> distrust, hatred and enmity, and spreading the
> message
> of peace and harmony
>
>
>
>
>
> Express our indignation at the denial of visas  by
> the
> Indian and Pakistani governments - to Pakistanis who
> wanted to join the march in India, and to Indian
> marchers who wanted to join the march in Pakistan
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Protest the imperialist tendencies of the US as
> currently exemplified in the efforts to manipulate
> South Asian regional politics by pushing for arms
> purchases by India and Pakistan
>
>
>
>
> Save the date! Come one, come all!
>
>
>
> SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS
> Friends of South Asia
> EKTA
> Association for India`s Development
> (AID)
> - BayArea
> Alliance of South Asians Taking Action
> (ASATA)
> American Muslim Voice
> Pakistanis at Stanford
> Pakistan American Alliance
>
>
>
> Progressive Muslim Union of North
> America
>
>
>
>

drlokraj:
re 30: hamidm2

Do not feel grieved by the Pakistani mascot shown in the WP cartoon aka hamidm2. His credit card bounced and couldn`t get his supply today.

He himself did all what he is recommending:

He had a vesectomy--didn`t work. Then a castration didn`t work either. Now he realises abortion was his best option.

All can learn by such western values.

---

hamidm2: No reason to mess around with simple gentle folk. This is not chivalry. Please direct all your volleys at me. Understand?

Re: # 27

drlokraj,

``younger generation goes to concerts as a fashion so that they appear modern``.........

i think that is one of the stupidest comments i have heard on chowk in a long time (echo`s daily maniacal rants don`t count ) ........ i hope you never have any children and if you are thinking about it, stop right now - have an abortion, a vasectomy, a castration or whatever it takes to stop you before you make a child`s life miserable ...........

........ now carry on with your reminiscing about nooran bibi and ustad baker ali khan of maler kotla - who the heck are they and how come nobody who wears pants with two legs, applies deodrant and uses utensils to eat has not heard of them ????

........ junoon is fine with me, as is abrar and alam lohar, but for god`s sake let us not confuse music with indians wailing and bushmen licking their tongues ...........

Thanks for your valuable comments.
Here is Sayonee sung at Stanford.
http://www.ourmedia.org/node/9815
I got another audio clip, and a video clip at that site. Please search under my name.
C.

dullabhatti:26

hey that was hilarious.

The advent of synthesiser & mechanised-music has enabled every TD&H to form a band. I say even the Baboo band --I hope they are still there--are Motzarts when compared to these `` Doesn`t my side-pose make me look like Mick Jagger`` jungle-bunnies.

But the good news is that the tide is turning. Some of the newer `commercial` filmi songs are trying to turn a new leaf.

I guess we were destined to live through these interesting times.

Until & unless the aparthied (eng-medium) vocal chords are throttled and choked , no freedom can be achieved in Slavelands.


`` Sahib-e saaz pay laazim hay kay ghafil naa rahay
aksar aksar ghalat ahUnG bhee hota hai Saroosh``

---

ALLAMA Iqbal.


drlokraj:27

yaar ruulaa diyaa aap nay.

`` kis kis ko bUtaaeN gey , judaaee kaa sUbUb hUm``--dost- mittar, you follow what I am trying to say here? Aakhir kitnay articles, analysis aur intellectualisation sey dimaaGh kaa screw tight hogaa? Is it not much better to spread a dUstarkhwaaN to fete the hearts?

Bibi NooraN spent her lif e in a dilapidated cottage on outskirts of Jalandhar.Except few qaafis recorded by Jalandhar Radio,nothing has been preserved.

Pooran Shahkoti,who lives on a mazaar,taught soofi music to Hans Raj Hans and Jassi who are millionairres now but he still lives same life.

Hans Raj sings ``saRkaaN tay agg turi jaandi ae`` and similar crap,but still is called sufi singer.

Ustad Baker Ali Khan of maler kotla,the last authentic classical singer was awarded fellowship by Punjabi University for his service to music when he was on death bed and had nothing to even pay for even medicines.

It is all business now and has nothing to do with music.Depends how many sponsors one can get and younger generation goes to concerts as a fashion so that they appear modern.Electronic media has been exploited fully by these businessmen.

Has anyone heard Rabbi Shergill? He also has a unique and new style but atleast his vocals are clear and crisp. He has gone overboard in some of his tracks trying to touch the extremes of uniqueness and runed it but others are good.

Anything new is most welcome. But Junoon is not new anymore...I want my 100 dollars back that I spent on their concert years ago....their music reminds me of when one time all the metal utensils placed on overhead shelves in our house fell down during an earthquake...there was big noises and then one kaulli(pot) kep rolling and rolling...tnnntnnntnnntnnnttnntnnntnnn............ to the other end of the next room and hit the wall..........TTTTTTTTTTnnnnnnnnnnnnnaaaaaa.....song is over.

Pathanay Khan

Cementdaur, why does everything have to go through a religious wringer, especially when it comes to Islam in Pakistan?

Junoon is good/not good, how does that place Islam on a collision course?

Yes, Junoon has the guts to challenge a status quo in Pakistan, and take on the risks involved. Great, I just hope that each of those 600 Pakistani Junoonis who went to the Stanford concert take the opportunity next time they are in Pakistan to use music to try to make a change or improve matters. Maybe they can donate harmoniums and other musical instruments to village schools. Or they can visit places like Cordoba and Alhambra on their way home and pick up some of the sheet music going back to the Al Andalus days, which, by the way, is where it seems Junoon is getting some of their latest influences from.