March for Peace
Beena Sarwar May 15, 2005
#22 Posted by Urstruly on May 19, 2005 8:38:36 am
Those who want to march to India should do it on one-way ticket basis.
DOWN WITH THE NGOS AND THEIR NEFARIOUS NEO-COLONIAL AGENDA
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#21 Posted by jay on May 18, 2005 4:58:56 pm
Fatwa declares suicide attacks un-Islamic
58 Ulema’s decree does not apply to Palestine, Kashmir, Iraq; minister hails edict
By our correspondent
LAHORE: A group of 58 religious scholars representing all schools of thought have issued a Fatwa (edict) stating that Islam strictly forbids suicide attacks on Muslims and those committing such acts at places of worship and public congregations cease to be Muslims.
However, the Ulema led by chairman Tanzimul Madaris Pakistan and chairman Ruet-e-Hilal Committee Mufti Munibur Rehman, clarified that the Fatwa applies only to conditions in Pakistan and those running freedom movements in places like Palestine, Iraq and Kashmir are out of its scope.
///////////////////////
Above is from jang of today. Jihad is simple, it is a religious task and the islamic scholars of pakistan, have declared that suicide bombing in kashmir is halal. Other white washers of pak image like the tahmeds have variously tried to say that jihad is due to poverty, well there a lot more poor muslims in other countries including india and they are not after jihad.
Jihad in pakistan is the evoluition of pak identity set forth in TNT that created pakistan. TNT istitutionalised the notion of jihadic killings in pakistan, now with the kashmir fence and marines in afghanistan the killiers have turned on to the shias and the well to do in karachi and other parts of pakistan. For pakistan, jihad is a question of pak identity.
Take the case of desecration of koran, it is pakistan that led the way in demonstrations, actions at govt levels, and not saudis. Reason is simple, pakistan is the home of a virulent strain of islam, the TNT strain.
58 Ulema’s decree does not apply to Palestine, Kashmir, Iraq; minister hails edict
By our correspondent
LAHORE: A group of 58 religious scholars representing all schools of thought have issued a Fatwa (edict) stating that Islam strictly forbids suicide attacks on Muslims and those committing such acts at places of worship and public congregations cease to be Muslims.
However, the Ulema led by chairman Tanzimul Madaris Pakistan and chairman Ruet-e-Hilal Committee Mufti Munibur Rehman, clarified that the Fatwa applies only to conditions in Pakistan and those running freedom movements in places like Palestine, Iraq and Kashmir are out of its scope.
///////////////////////
Above is from jang of today. Jihad is simple, it is a religious task and the islamic scholars of pakistan, have declared that suicide bombing in kashmir is halal. Other white washers of pak image like the tahmeds have variously tried to say that jihad is due to poverty, well there a lot more poor muslims in other countries including india and they are not after jihad.
Jihad in pakistan is the evoluition of pak identity set forth in TNT that created pakistan. TNT istitutionalised the notion of jihadic killings in pakistan, now with the kashmir fence and marines in afghanistan the killiers have turned on to the shias and the well to do in karachi and other parts of pakistan. For pakistan, jihad is a question of pak identity.
Take the case of desecration of koran, it is pakistan that led the way in demonstrations, actions at govt levels, and not saudis. Reason is simple, pakistan is the home of a virulent strain of islam, the TNT strain.
#20 Posted by Saj1981 on May 18, 2005 5:06:26 am
Re 18: Harish..interesting points you made there...good to see an Indian bring up the points that Jihad rarely has..is or ever will be a purely selfless ideological goal..but is supported by the far more wordly factor of commerical enterprise...its no surprise Al-qaeda has been throwinng millions round everywhere...and for that matter too the ridiculous manner in which the Pak govt paid tribals out there in north waziristan for them in turn to pay their ``debts`` to al qaeda.....similarily ur right...there can never be a fully govt supported peace initiative between India and Pakistan as long as the latter`s military-mullah nexus continues to benefit from a permenant state of ``hostility``
#19 Posted by jay on May 17, 2005 10:39:38 pm
The deliberate attack by the law enforcement agencies on the participants of the HRCP-JAC ``mixed`` marathon can only be condemned as shameful and unacceptable – especially the deliberate orders to tear the clothing of the female leaders of the marathon.
The above is from jang of today. Well the pakistani should give priority for the above than peace march with indians. Orders of the above nature the pakistanis can change themselves without indian involvement. Unfaotunately no one wants to change them, they are per the book.
One has to look at the peace also in the context of the above, what does the book say about dealing with kafirs. Any way pakistan has to change its path before any peace prospect with india, and the first sign of that change will be repeal of hoodood. Indo-pak conflicct is a conflict of values, and kashmir is only a symptom of it. It took 25 years for the symptom to develop while the pak value change reflected in honour killings and hoodood evolved over time.
The above is from jang of today. Well the pakistani should give priority for the above than peace march with indians. Orders of the above nature the pakistanis can change themselves without indian involvement. Unfaotunately no one wants to change them, they are per the book.
One has to look at the peace also in the context of the above, what does the book say about dealing with kafirs. Any way pakistan has to change its path before any peace prospect with india, and the first sign of that change will be repeal of hoodood. Indo-pak conflicct is a conflict of values, and kashmir is only a symptom of it. It took 25 years for the symptom to develop while the pak value change reflected in honour killings and hoodood evolved over time.
#18 Posted by harish_hyd on May 17, 2005 10:31:50 pm
#15 by indikad75
Hey Salil.. am fine..thanks for asking..how are you doing?
[Once the distrust in the minds of people on both sides ebbs and a desire for a more peaceful relationship gains ground in their hearts, it will become all the more difficult for the jehadi elements in the Pakistani establishment and society to raise the bogey of `Islam khatre mein hai`.]
I think most of us give too much credence to the theory that Jihad is a some sort of an Islamic war. For at least those running the Jihad, it is business, pure and simple. Ask the Jihadi to fight the Indian Army merely for the love of Islam, I bet there wouldn`t be too many volunteers. Even the recent bonhomie and change in perceptions will not alter the nature of what is basically a hardcore commercial enterprise, surreptitiously sustained by the Army/ISI and fronted by the Mullahs. Both stand to lose if the common Indian and Paki decide to bury the hatchet. Both have a vested interest in keeping the fires burning. It is already a well-known fact that individually, Indians and Pakis get along rather well, and since what the silent majority in Pakistan thinks is irrelevant in the larger scheme of things, there is no point in pushing for more people-to-people contacts. The moment Pakistan recovers economically and Musharraf is comfortably ensconced in power, it will be back to business as usual.
At least in South Asia, what the common man thinks has always been subservient to what the establishment feels, but more so in the case of Pakistan.
[Was watching NDTV this morning; I saw Neelotpal Basu (Communist MP) and Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi (BJP V-P) sitting on the same table, enjoying kababs on the streets of Pindi! These are the chaps who were boycotting each other till yesterday.]
Yep, it was good to see these guys who spend the better part of their lives at each other`s throats actually have fun together. Wish the same spirit prevailed when they were inside the Parliament too.
Hey Salil.. am fine..thanks for asking..how are you doing?
[Once the distrust in the minds of people on both sides ebbs and a desire for a more peaceful relationship gains ground in their hearts, it will become all the more difficult for the jehadi elements in the Pakistani establishment and society to raise the bogey of `Islam khatre mein hai`.]
I think most of us give too much credence to the theory that Jihad is a some sort of an Islamic war. For at least those running the Jihad, it is business, pure and simple. Ask the Jihadi to fight the Indian Army merely for the love of Islam, I bet there wouldn`t be too many volunteers. Even the recent bonhomie and change in perceptions will not alter the nature of what is basically a hardcore commercial enterprise, surreptitiously sustained by the Army/ISI and fronted by the Mullahs. Both stand to lose if the common Indian and Paki decide to bury the hatchet. Both have a vested interest in keeping the fires burning. It is already a well-known fact that individually, Indians and Pakis get along rather well, and since what the silent majority in Pakistan thinks is irrelevant in the larger scheme of things, there is no point in pushing for more people-to-people contacts. The moment Pakistan recovers economically and Musharraf is comfortably ensconced in power, it will be back to business as usual.
At least in South Asia, what the common man thinks has always been subservient to what the establishment feels, but more so in the case of Pakistan.
[Was watching NDTV this morning; I saw Neelotpal Basu (Communist MP) and Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi (BJP V-P) sitting on the same table, enjoying kababs on the streets of Pindi! These are the chaps who were boycotting each other till yesterday.]
Yep, it was good to see these guys who spend the better part of their lives at each other`s throats actually have fun together. Wish the same spirit prevailed when they were inside the Parliament too.
#17 Posted by okaab on May 17, 2005 10:31:44 pm
Re: # 16
I get the impression that you feel only Pakistan is involved in cross-border terrorism. What about RAW? It`s not really composed of innocent babes.
I get the impression that you feel only Pakistan is involved in cross-border terrorism. What about RAW? It`s not really composed of innocent babes.
#16 Posted by cayenne on May 17, 2005 2:34:05 pm
I will willingly ``MARCH`` with a pak for a ``PEACE`` march if :
1.Pakistan stops abetting video piracy of indian/bollymood movies and music.This affects the earnings every indian citizen involved in the entertainment industry in India.
2.Pakistan , if it does not approve of India aspiring to be an UNSC member, not actively oppose it.If the G-4 was formed, and India is a contender, it is because it is eligible.Why should it bother pakistan?.If pakistan is eligible it too can be a contender.It isn`t( acc. to the world) , so it isn`t a contender.C`est la vie.Deal with it.Don`t be petty.
3.STOP active support to cross border terrorism completely.
4.Accept SAFTA protocols.If there is a `free trade` agreement between SAARC nations then pakistan must honour it.Pakistan must award` MFN ` status to India.
5.Pakistan must recognize that India is four times larger than it, by land mass,almost ten times by population , is a three and a half trillion annual GDP economy, is one of the world`s largest markets and therefore has leverage with the top economies of the world in this time of shrinking /saturated growth in the developed world, is also a low cost producer of goods and services and is abundant with resources both natural and human.
SO, Pakistan should STOP competing with India , but draw on its` own strengths and create a quality of life for it`s own peoples and its` place in the world.That is my humble opinion.
I have no problem with ``peace` marches`` as long as it results in something ``peaceful``.How can Beena Sarwar guarantee me that a pakistani who wishes India harm, sneak in on a visa for a peace march and then disappear into the indian population.It happened during the Cricket series.They were all apprehended due to the locals turning them in.We indians are more concerned with development and securing a future for our children and we are as united as ever before in the pursuit of our goals.We are sick and tired of our neighbor`s stuck in the south asian version of the cold war and always .
1.Pakistan stops abetting video piracy of indian/bollymood movies and music.This affects the earnings every indian citizen involved in the entertainment industry in India.
2.Pakistan , if it does not approve of India aspiring to be an UNSC member, not actively oppose it.If the G-4 was formed, and India is a contender, it is because it is eligible.Why should it bother pakistan?.If pakistan is eligible it too can be a contender.It isn`t( acc. to the world) , so it isn`t a contender.C`est la vie.Deal with it.Don`t be petty.
3.STOP active support to cross border terrorism completely.
4.Accept SAFTA protocols.If there is a `free trade` agreement between SAARC nations then pakistan must honour it.Pakistan must award` MFN ` status to India.
5.Pakistan must recognize that India is four times larger than it, by land mass,almost ten times by population , is a three and a half trillion annual GDP economy, is one of the world`s largest markets and therefore has leverage with the top economies of the world in this time of shrinking /saturated growth in the developed world, is also a low cost producer of goods and services and is abundant with resources both natural and human.
SO, Pakistan should STOP competing with India , but draw on its` own strengths and create a quality of life for it`s own peoples and its` place in the world.That is my humble opinion.
I have no problem with ``peace` marches`` as long as it results in something ``peaceful``.How can Beena Sarwar guarantee me that a pakistani who wishes India harm, sneak in on a visa for a peace march and then disappear into the indian population.It happened during the Cricket series.They were all apprehended due to the locals turning them in.We indians are more concerned with development and securing a future for our children and we are as united as ever before in the pursuit of our goals.We are sick and tired of our neighbor`s stuck in the south asian version of the cold war and always .
#15 Posted by indikad75 on May 17, 2005 10:36:48 am
Reply #2
HI! Harish.. how are things? Well I agree that ultimately the decisions on whether to have peace or not rests in the hands of the respective governments, but it is also a fact that people to people contacts are proving to be an important factor in changing popular perception. It might take time but a beginning has to be made somewhere.. be it through cricket fans roaming the streets of Chandigarh or peaceniks marching upto Lahore. Once the distrust in the minds of people on both sides ebbs and a desire for a more peaceful relationship gains ground in their hearts, it will become all the more difficult for the jehadi elements in the Pakistani establishment and society to raise the bogey of `Islam khatre mein hai`.
PS. Was watching NDTV this morning; I saw Neelotpal Basu (Communist MP) and Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi (BJP V-P) sitting on the same table, enjoying kababs on the streets of Pindi ! These are the chaps who were boycotting each other till yesterday. Was wondering who gave these chaps visas? And why?
Reply # 4
``Frankly, peace initiative coming from a Hyderabadi Muslim is a questionable topic. No offence to this character, perhaps he is genuine but most of the peaceniks are afflunent Politicians in India and Pak``
If you did not mean any offence then why raise the question at all ?? Or is it that coz Mazher Husain happens to be a Muslim, his motives are questionable anyday?
Bhai delhiwale, Mazher bhai doesnt come from a feudal or aristocratic family. He comes from a middle class family like most Indians (and am not talking about those living comfortably in US!). He is doing exemplary work here in Hyderabad through his organisation COVA (ably assisted by one Mr.Ali Asgher).
I am sure the common man`s aspiration for peace reflected by the `peaceniks` is not such a bad idea that it is met with insinuations the kind that have been levelled against them here? BTW COVA is not just into `peace marches`. Check out more on the socially constructive work undertaken by them in Hyderabad: http://www.indianngos.com/cova/
HI! Harish.. how are things? Well I agree that ultimately the decisions on whether to have peace or not rests in the hands of the respective governments, but it is also a fact that people to people contacts are proving to be an important factor in changing popular perception. It might take time but a beginning has to be made somewhere.. be it through cricket fans roaming the streets of Chandigarh or peaceniks marching upto Lahore. Once the distrust in the minds of people on both sides ebbs and a desire for a more peaceful relationship gains ground in their hearts, it will become all the more difficult for the jehadi elements in the Pakistani establishment and society to raise the bogey of `Islam khatre mein hai`.
PS. Was watching NDTV this morning; I saw Neelotpal Basu (Communist MP) and Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi (BJP V-P) sitting on the same table, enjoying kababs on the streets of Pindi ! These are the chaps who were boycotting each other till yesterday. Was wondering who gave these chaps visas? And why?
Reply # 4
``Frankly, peace initiative coming from a Hyderabadi Muslim is a questionable topic. No offence to this character, perhaps he is genuine but most of the peaceniks are afflunent Politicians in India and Pak``
If you did not mean any offence then why raise the question at all ?? Or is it that coz Mazher Husain happens to be a Muslim, his motives are questionable anyday?
Bhai delhiwale, Mazher bhai doesnt come from a feudal or aristocratic family. He comes from a middle class family like most Indians (and am not talking about those living comfortably in US!). He is doing exemplary work here in Hyderabad through his organisation COVA (ably assisted by one Mr.Ali Asgher).
I am sure the common man`s aspiration for peace reflected by the `peaceniks` is not such a bad idea that it is met with insinuations the kind that have been levelled against them here? BTW COVA is not just into `peace marches`. Check out more on the socially constructive work undertaken by them in Hyderabad: http://www.indianngos.com/cova/
#14 Posted by delhiwala on May 17, 2005 9:51:01 am
Kitthey Gavach gaye Tu Hun?
Mai te Khali Sawal kittay si.
Mai te Khali Sawal kittay si.
#13 Posted by omar_r_quraishi on May 17, 2005 2:02:22 am
the interact board is yet more proof (if ever it was needed) that chowk is inhabited by vile moronic creatures
#12 Posted by okaab on May 16, 2005 10:12:08 pm
Peace initiatives are welcome, yes, but what`s going to ensure they work. The American Nod of Approval.
#11 Posted by jay on May 16, 2005 3:43:15 pm
Poor, Bina, she is a journalist, unfortunately of the pakistani kind.
Why paki peace marchers are not allowed in india, the reason is very simple. last week there was a bomb blast in srinagar, a dozen killed and the responsibility was claimed by a pak organisation. Bina, tell me why some one should claim responsibility for killings. Well Bina, read and read carefully, and learn. In pakistan that is the way to attact more pakistanis to join that organisation, prove to them that they can deliver the jihadic objective of killing the kafirs. That is what is of high value in pakistan.
Write about that Bina, write about the underlying reason why a pak organisation should claim killing as their function, tell the world why sich organisations flourish in pakistan and then you will know why peace is bad news in pakistan, and why indians distrust pak peace nicks. These pathetic pak peace nicks never dare to mention the popularity and wide spresd support for jihadis in pakistan.
Honesty in many parts of the world is a pre-requisite for a journo, except the pak variety. Bina, have alook in the mirror, enlarge and paste this post next to the mirror, and grow up.
Why paki peace marchers are not allowed in india, the reason is very simple. last week there was a bomb blast in srinagar, a dozen killed and the responsibility was claimed by a pak organisation. Bina, tell me why some one should claim responsibility for killings. Well Bina, read and read carefully, and learn. In pakistan that is the way to attact more pakistanis to join that organisation, prove to them that they can deliver the jihadic objective of killing the kafirs. That is what is of high value in pakistan.
Write about that Bina, write about the underlying reason why a pak organisation should claim killing as their function, tell the world why sich organisations flourish in pakistan and then you will know why peace is bad news in pakistan, and why indians distrust pak peace nicks. These pathetic pak peace nicks never dare to mention the popularity and wide spresd support for jihadis in pakistan.
Honesty in many parts of the world is a pre-requisite for a journo, except the pak variety. Bina, have alook in the mirror, enlarge and paste this post next to the mirror, and grow up.
#10 Posted by avenger123 on May 16, 2005 3:03:05 pm
Let me give you a piece of advice. Please dont even assume for a second that people like Sandeep Pandey , A.Roy etc. represent India. This lot belong to an idealogy that believes in a stateless world where there are no nations and no boundaries...and can`t wait to see India broken up into a million fragments. Their influence in India is very limited. The darling of this crowd is Medha Patkar, the anti-dams , anti-nuclear bomb , anti-industry activist. She used to make a lot of noise about speaking out for the common man and how the pulse of India was with her. She stood for the elections in Maharashtra last year. Lost her deposit. Got no more than a couple of thousand votes in an electorate of just over a million and a half .
So if you really are interested in `peace`....you will do well to reflect upon the fact that it is Pakistan that eyes Indian territory and it is Pakistan which has been for the last 2 decades sponsoring a proxy war in India , albeit unsuccessfully. India has so far only acted in self-defense
So if you really are interested in `peace`....you will do well to reflect upon the fact that it is Pakistan that eyes Indian territory and it is Pakistan which has been for the last 2 decades sponsoring a proxy war in India , albeit unsuccessfully. India has so far only acted in self-defense
#9 Posted by Saj1981 on May 16, 2005 2:35:47 pm
Re 5: Spot on Tahmed...couldnt have said it better sir.
#8 Posted by delhiwala on May 16, 2005 10:58:42 am
Beena Ji,
Why were you named Beena an Unislamic name? Just curious.
Why were you named Beena an Unislamic name? Just curious.
#7 Posted by delhiwala on May 16, 2005 8:13:21 am
Re: # 6
Tahmed Sahib,
Yaara Da Hara Ghora, te Street de uttay properly parked si, lekin oho meter expire ho gaya si. Khair, mai vi dheeth hain contest jaroor karna si.
tin Sau Dollra di savings ho gaye.
Tahmed Sahib,
Yaara Da Hara Ghora, te Street de uttay properly parked si, lekin oho meter expire ho gaya si. Khair, mai vi dheeth hain contest jaroor karna si.
tin Sau Dollra di savings ho gaye.
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