The Alternative Muslim Identity

#160, #161 I wish Ralph were around. He could fill in the gaps. I recall him mentioning one Yoginder Sikand - and echoboom in the same breath......in fact Yoginder Sikand (and apprently echoboom is his disciple) caused the atimes site to shut down.....so you can imagine the capacity here.
Where is Ralph when you need the guy......

#157 by echoboom on June 21, 2005 12:51pm PT


Never under shariah will be allowed to germinate.


Shouldn`t you wait for shariah to germinate first?

#157 wants to know

No matter how tragic the occasion... and then starts frothing hatred

my query is where were the likes of islam-proud, islam-wearing, islam loving cut n paste chowkies:

* when saima sarwar imran was gunned down by her mother/uncle in the law offices of hina gilani
* when news comes routinely of women (muslims, hindus, christians) being abused, raped, violated and discriminated in paksitan and in the rest of muslim world
* when shazia was raped
* when mukhtaran was raped

and, more importantly

what did these islam-pasand chowkies did to alleviate their grieviences?

at the least those in the west like ANNA and others are using this as a lightening rod to focus on the injustices there...

once again, the gentleman in 157 stares at himself in the mirror when he mentions khussras and hijras. such self-hate. who would have thought it was possible?

#158 - that is the question. Thank you khamkhwa.

...156 and still going strong...question is: has zehra found her identity?

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#154 The very core of all religions embodies what we call `insaniyat`, `buddha` or whatever - its doesnot matter which and what religion you look at it. The essential core is built around this, and then superstructure on top is a set of rules which is supposed to take us to the very core - Nirvana (for want of a better term).

This is like an onion, as you start from the outside - you get rid of the dry layers. Then you peel the next layer, then the next so on and so forth. Similarly with religion - each layer you have to peel to reach the next. Ultimately you reach the centre of the belief. Here each layer can be viewed as a set of rules which we have to follow. The most outward manifestation of this superstructure is the set of rules which dictates the roles people play - one set of men and one set for women. As you peel this layer away, and go to the next few you suddently realise that the rules for both become the same. There is not distinguishing between the sexes.

As with the onion the first few layers are a bugger to remove. This is where entrenched power structure comes in. This can be in the form of the mullahs, the priests, the interpretors of religion, the landlords, the educated, the rich. Most of the resistance to get rid of the first few layers will always come from here.

Again just as with the onion, the first few layers insulate the system from getting dehydrated by the external environment, eventhough the next layer could be rotting. Remember even in an off onion the core is still intact (okay upto a point but you get my drift). The daptability is lost, it cannot do much. That is why you will find veggie vendors in desh getting rid of the top layers of the onion fairly frequently!

Most religious beliefs are like this. There only two which had stripped the super structure - one was and is buddhism, the other has done it in an interesting manner - hinduism which has taken the route of many paths to god (even there ultimately what the upanishads say is that if you can peel all the layers of religion away you dont need religion you are a true HUMAN BEING - insaniyat - which is what Guru Nanak tried to say). Christianity is also going down this route (though there is a similarity to buddishm in terms of the austerity (protestant austerity comes to mind), in accepting many ways to god - so you have a partial raporchement between catholicism and protestatism and the various strains.

Even with Islam, if you get rid of the top structure youwill find the core is similar to all the other religions. It is the outward manifestation of this core which is different. The difference has come about because of a number of different reasons (this is not the time and place to go through them and I am not an expert on comparitive religions).

So that was my two bits.....

That should be # 152. May be it is time for lunch break!

re: Nameless One # 150

You need to expand on this. Or, I will have to. And anyone who knows me knows that I can`t write to save my life. :)

just as a matter of curiosity where are TAhmed32, Hamidm, Romair, and others. They seem to have dropped out of the screen. Or has T scared the hell out of them.

#137, and #150 we need to add another dimension to this: the outward manifestation of religion has to move with times. The essential core remains the same and is timeless. The problem comes about because of what we believe to be the core of the religion. The larger the core and the more encompassing it is, the less amenable it is for adapting with the times. The larger the core more moribund the religion becomes, this was the issue with Christian belief till the enlightenment, and this is the same with Islam.

We seem to be discussing the need for the religious core to stop encompassing social mores and custom and shed some its hold there. Therein lies the problem. The problem of entrenched power.

#150: kaalchakra

#145 it explains my perspective

re: temporal # 137

I agree. That`s why it is important to get our understanding of religion right. Only then we can keep its influence beneficial to all. Civility is good, but it is a weak motivator. Religion is a powerful motivator, and it can be a positive OR a negative influence.

ss #146:

notice how most interactors here give him a wide berth and do not interact with him?

...the reason is obvious...he is forever frothing and exploding with intolerance and hatred

leave him alone let him brew in his own hatred and intolerance...

Re: # 143

Islam and mental unbalance .A whole new topic.