The Genesis of Militancy in Pakistan

Re: # 27
Atishraj,
Very well stated. There is no principle of human rights, individual rights, or even a medium for public exchange of opinions. Those who shout loudest get recognized and preferential treatment. Minority views are quickly extinguished. Such is the land of pure - bullshit. And yes, I am of Paki origin.

Shishapa #26 {``Well put. I do not resent the separation, but I think the case could have been made in a better and cleaner way, without the loss of life and destruction of families and villifying other community claiming they had animosity.``}

True. Isn`t it a shame that a few people`s thirst for power and loot resulted in the deaths of millions and forced departure of tens of millions? While you may not resent partition, Shishapa, there are many who keep asking the question:

Why were we and our future sacrificed on the altar of Jinnah`s ambition to be top banana of any place - even a ``moth eaten Pakistan?``

Salim

The root cause of Militancy in Pakistan is the abundance of creature called humans. The land of pure where the only hobby of people is to produce as many babies as they can and then let the loose on the streets like stray dogs to find their livelihood and when they cant they are thrown into the slavery of a master. That master happens to be a maulvi or a feudal where these creature are exploited in every way from sexual to idealogical. When they grow up the only way to get through the harsh realties to the world is to end their life and they gladly do it by blowing themselves in mosques and imam baraghas.

Re # 22

``That is how Pakiland was obtained, by blackmailing the British and Congress with bloody civil war if the Muslim League did not get its way. ``

Well put. I do not resent the separation, but I think the case could have been made
in a better and cleaner way, without the loss of life and destruction of families and
villifying other community claiming they had animosity.

I reiterate without , personal malice, that the root cause of militancy in Pakistan is greed and stupidity, both of which are found in abundance in the aforementioned land under discussion.Everything else is consequential.

I can only feel sorry #16 .... every one preceive others as per their own mentality, so I am not surprised... I know the two mentalities, can sadly smile at the level achieved by the cartoonist and #16, and move on for I cannot go to this mentality level.

Coming to the Real Pakistan values, my friend look around and you will see unlimited goodness led by the likes of Abdus Sattar Edhi, Haji Munshi (Hospital), Imran Khan`s Cancer research hospital (all examples are where I have either contributed or have experiences as a visitor) and unlimited unrigistered NGOs working with people without demanding money from either government or international agencies. Go to the common folks either in Punjab, NWFP, Sindh, Balochistan, or Azad Kashmir when poor strangers will insist you not to leave without eating, you will come to know the heritage and cultural norms of Pakistan. This land has civilizations since 9000 BC in form of Takht Bhai, Mehar Garh, Moenjo Daro, the world`s first planned and sanitized city Harappa, and thre world first university texla, etc. Their isn`t a country to my knowledge that could claim more civilized history than Pakistan. Its unfortunate that some of the educated population has been influenced by across border and overseas media and forgot about their own high values. I sincerely hope all of my Pakistanis fellows realize their true values and nature and be theirself again...Amin

miriamk

In order to rise up, a people need a great energizing principle. That principle could be, as doublec suggests, Islam, or less likely, anything else.

The question is, can Islam, in Pakistan, act as the energizing principle against what temporal calls the occupying army? If it could, would you or temporal want it to be used so? If not, then what could be the alternatives?

One thing is sure. Poverty, oppression, selfish interests, and people`s sufferings have never been (in my knowledge) enough to launch and sustain any major revolution.

HP #6

`` What are the “real Pakistani Values” that you refer to? The Pakistani values ARE made of “Oppression, intolerance and disregard for law” . The Pak army did not develop these values, Pakistan inherited them from undivided India and our long gone colonial masters developed them. Why blame the army for something they inherited? ``

Fair enough !!!

`` Now tell me how these values are any different in India, which is a supposedly democratic country! The Indian democracy or the Pakistani Army has not made a dent in the system. For the simple reason that they don’t know how to do that. Just to illustrate my point, a police inspector from Ancholi, UP would be at home in Chumber, Sindh or Mian Chunoon, Punjab because he is serving the same laws, same government officials and the same mindset. A lowly placed clerk in Delhi would ask for a similar monetary favor, as the one in Islamabad would do. ``

I won`t dispute your generalization. India is a vast country. There are pockets of places that are governed well. There is a substantial minority of government employees who perform their jobs without asking for bribes or favors. Some of them are timid to question the wrong doers. That is a different question. There are scores of govt institutions that perform well. IIT is a government run institution. I do not know of an IIT professor whose below average kid got admitted to the IIT.

`` With Indian democracy, there is a hope (extremely faint though) that things would change and with the Pak army, hope is an illusion.
Why democracy creates hope and the army rule diminishes it? Because the democracy has to constantly bring more people in to share the privileges. With the army, the circle keeps shirking as the army or any despotic group continues to grab more instead of sharing it. ``

For the better or the worse Indian democracy has distributed the spoils of power to a more diversified elite.

#14 by sifzal on June 15, 2005 9:35pm PT


Look at China or singapore, do they have democracy?


So Pakistan has the worst of both world..no democracy and no good governance...the washington times dog cartoon applies to the paki junta too....

Is interesting to note that while the discussion was on Pakistan some thought it necessary to lecture on the `false` Indian democracy.........................

I have met many people especially Indians around the world talking about Pakistan not have `true` democracy. My dear fellows its not the democracy, its the leadership which matters. What is the need of the democracy if it does not help put an end to regular killing of minorities in thousands or invading other countries in the name of pre-emtive strike and kill hundreds and thousands...if this is democracy, surely I do not need it. Look at China or singapore, do they have democracy? No, but yes they are among the most successful nations in the world, only because they have good leadership.

My comments are based strictly on what I read here (I haven’t read the author’s other articles). The way I understand it, he blames the institution (primarily the military) for creating and maintaining an atmosphere where all kind of bad stuff is allowed to take place. I think that’s very simplistic. He totally fails to deal with the root causes of how people learn to accept such domination as a given – on the underlying contradiction – on what it is that makes the Pakistani individual so docile that the army can trod all over upon him/her in its boots while at the same time, he/she can easily be roused to go fight jihad in far-away places (except perhaps the educated elite who are content to do all their fighting in cyberspace)!

This article (just like many, many other similar articles on this and related topics from various self-proclaimed ``intellectuals`` who are considered long-term denizens of this site (and I don`t mean this author)) also seems to have a lot of fluff – mostly opinions on issues – with little substantiation.

[…it has become an accepted norm to look for short cuts, strife for out of turn benefits, and to become wealthy, no matter what it takes.]
One would think you were describing a capitalistic system!

[This practice has severely compromised merit and mediocre has replaced excellence and professionalism. All these trends promote militancy as citizens have no customary channels to redress.]
By definition, the vast majority of the work force WILL be average and mediocre – in any part of the world. What’s so special about Pakistan that blowing up people jumps up to the top of the line an immediate solution to all problems for such (what you call) “deprived” individuals?

[According to this propaganda tool, the element of even genuine dissent and protest is branded as an act of extremism, which is evil and must be crushed, with whatever means the ruling junta has, at its disposal.]
We have heard such stuff so many times that it’s perhaps not even worth going into. However, for the umpteenth time – the problem is not related to holding views and in conducting protests to express those views – it’s about the METHOD used to accomplish those objectives!

[Decades of military rule created a way of life, where the real Pakistani values were undermined, which ultimately eroded for the worse.]
Pardon me for asking – but what are the REAL Pakistani values? Also, do the Pakistanis practice them, and if they don’t, what claim they have to them?

#10 by temporal

[..but a major portion has to be apportioned to our/their fatalistic psyche and those with vested interests who promoted the development and inculcation of this pysche
this over reliance on dua and under reliance on dawa lead to this fatalistic psyche]
Tempo bhai-saheb, give me a break! Are you saying that Pakistani population’s fatalism is at the root of THESE problems (as if the Indians are less into fatalism)? Also, what “dawa” you have in mind (not another poem, by any chance)?

#5 by Miriamk
[I’d like to believe the masses, oppressed enough will one day emerge from dormancy.]
That will be the day – the ground-hog day, I mean.

[Aren’t the heralds of revolution the seemingly spineless and feeble masses that one day make a choice to no longer languish in their docility?]
Spineless, feeble, AND docile! Don’t you ever have anything POSITIVE to say about our Pakistani brothers and sisters?

Thanks to Yasin Malik, we in India now know that all these luminaries, kissy-kissy about indo-pak relations now, were in the vanguard of provoking militancy in J and K.And guess where, Malik the JKLF head is going after his Pak trip??.To srinagar, capital of J and K, to his indian ``oppressors``.How come he ain`t delirious to be in the land of the pure among the people promoting his cause and waging `jihad` against us??.That itself speaks volumes doesn`t it???.

`Sheikh’s terror camps well-known`

TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ WEDNESDAY, JUNE 15, 2005 11:02:29 AM ]

Surf `N` Earn -Sign innow

New Delhi: A ministry of external affairs statement on Tuesday also coincided with clear indications that the near-mutiny in the Sangh Parivar over L K Advani’s formulation on Jinnah may end up restricting the manouvering space for Manmohan Singh on Pakistan.


The statement said, ``the revelations...(are) a matter of great concern. It is particularly serious that people directly involved in such activities continue to occupy high positions in Pakistan``.

Senior government sources said that in 1990, the Indian government kept detailed tabs on the terrorist camp run by Sheikh Rashid.

Pakistan journalist Hamid Mir’s contended that Sheikh Rashid’s terrorist camp operated out of a place called Fateh Jung. ``It was well known to media and not a secret,`` Mir said.

The camp closed down after its main leadership barring Malik was killed, Mir said. He said the camp was closed down after 1990 when the Pakistani establishment favoured Hizbul Mujahideen which was also supported by the Jamat-e-Islami.

But sources in the Indian government, who have been tracking Pakistan’s terrorist links for years, point to another Pakistani luminary, Shujaat Hussain, who recently made a very successful visit to India, being feted by the government, and even meeting Sonia Gandhi.

miriamk: # 5:

:(…a sad and resigned view of Pakistan. I hope that’s not true. I’d like to believe the masses, oppressed enough will one day emerge from dormancy. Aren’t the heralds of revolution the seemingly spineless and feeble masses that one day make a choice to no longer languish in their docility?

the agility, docility and flexibility required by the spine is no longer there...usurped, aborted and given up by the masses advertently and inadvertently...

the masses have to share the blame: though being forever disenfranchised am not sure in what proportion

but a major portion has to be apportioned to our/their fatalistic psyche and those with vested interests who promoted the development and inculcation of this pysche
this over reliance on dua and under reliance on dawa lead to this fatalistic psyche...khud kuch nahin karna: sub Allah per choRh daian...to inculcate dependence and to protect their vested interest the jaahil mullahs spread this jehalat...more later

lve

t

#8 by Urstruly on June 14, 2005 1:11pm PT

don`t worry....Your assets are safe(and taxed at the appropriate rate) in the US...

I am all for the revolution in Pakistan, as long as me, my family and our assets remain safe.

and the end result will be that the Islamist will take advantage of this anger and frustration that the young generation has and use it to take over the country. They will then impose sharia law all over Pakistan. Please remember that they would only do this to benefit themselves and not Islam.

The solution: Pakistan needs a revolution. Someone who will think for the country and the people and not for one`s personal gain.

Sadly there isn`t an individual in Pakistan that will think of the country and people before he/she thinks of themselves.

End result: The Islamist will take over Pakistan for a few decades and then there will be another revolution that will rid the country of Islamist. These individuals will then have the backbone to sort things out and think firstly for the betterment for the country and then themselves.

In short: It ain`t happening in our lifetime.

“Decades of military rule created a way of life, where the real Pakistani values were undermined, which ultimately eroded for the worse. Oppression, intolerance and disregard for law were practiced by the ruling elite, as an accepted model.”

What are the “real Pakistani Values” that you refer to? The Pakistani values ARE made of “Oppression, intolerance and disregard for law” . The Pak army did not develop these values, Pakistan inherited them from undivided India and our long gone colonial masters developed them. Why blame the army for something they inherited?

Now tell me how these values are any different in India, which is a supposedly democratic country! The Indian democracy or the Pakistani Army has not made a dent in the system. For the simple reason that they don’t know how to do that. Just to illustrate my point, a police inspector from Ancholi, UP would be at home in Chumber, Sindh or Mian Chunoon, Punjab because he is serving the same laws, same government officials and the same mindset. A lowly placed clerk in Delhi would ask for a similar monetary favor, as the one in Islamabad would do.

Whatever value system Pakistan has, is inherited from the undivided India courtesy our foreign masters. This system is secular, it is designed to create privileges and it is based on corruption.
By secular, I mean it never distinguishes between people and treats them equally(mostly badly) unless you have an inside track and if you have an inside track, you are privileged and once you have privileges you have the right to abuse your privileges and that is corruption.

Both Indian and Pakistani societies follow similar values the only difference is the form of government but has the Indian democracy eliminated “Oppression, intolerance and disregard for law”? No! not at all!

With Indian democracy, there is a hope (extremely faint though) that things would change and with the Pak army, hope is an illusion.
Why democracy creates hope and the army rule diminishes it? Because the democracy has to constantly bring more people in to share the privileges. With the army, the circle keeps shirking as the army or any despotic group continues to grab more instead of sharing it.

“This is accompanied by the feeling of deprivation, amongst a large majority of the people.”

It is all about privileges. Poor have no privileges and they don’t count. They are insects.

Sounds too harsh? Follow me. In the US, 3 to 4 people can tend a ten thousand acre agriculture farm. In India or Pakistan, it will require 400-500 people. So if the farming were industrialized in both countries, millions of people and their families would have nothing to eat. Both Pakistan and Indian can afford to change things in the countryside. But if they do that, all these unemployed people would swamp the cities, ruin great neighborhoods, and would be begging in rags everywhere. Do you really want an insect attack? Who would squish them?

“Large majority of people” should not feel deprived; governments are helping them keep their jobs.

Bottom line you can’t blame the army for everything they do lots of things to help people too.

#5
``I’d like to believe the masses, oppressed enough will one day emerge from dormancy.``

Pipedream! It has never happened in the histroy and it will never happen in Pakistan too.
Poor were doomed from the get go.

Temp:
#4

“...revolts occcur and succeed in species that have spine...through dormancy what passed for backbone once is brittle now…”

:(…a sad and resigned view of Pakistan. I hope that’s not true. I’d like to believe the masses, oppressed enough will one day emerge from dormancy. Aren’t the heralds of revolution the seemingly spineless and feeble masses that one day make a choice to no longer languish in their docility?

Farooq:

this caught my eye!

... the manner in which the State is being governed and the types of relief a citizen is denied, through normal economic, legal and administrative/political methods.

is this a freudian slip or reflective of your mindset?;)

james davies aside...revolts occcur and succeed in species that have spine...through dormancy what passed for backbone once is brittle now...apologise for somewhat true but strong words

welcome to chowk:)

rgds

t

#2 by Siddhartha on June 14, 2005 2:16am PT



is the fact that in order to bleed India Pakistan supported kashmiri militancy


Yes they did...and a majority of the pakistani public supported that policy...now it`s come to bite them back in the rear(which, in the case of pakis, is likely to result in severe brain damage)....

karma...it`s a female of the canine species...

Sheikh Rashid trained Kashmiri fighters: Yasin

By Shahzad Raza

ISLAMABAD: When the armed struggle in held Kashmir was at its zenith, Information Minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmed set up a camp where around 3,500 Jihadis were trained in guerrilla warfare, revealed Yasin Malik, the Jammu & Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF) chairman, at an exhibition of 1.5 million signatures by Kashmiris demanding their involvement in the dialogue process.

A very good analysis. What I would add in sidelines is the fact that in order to bleed India
Pakistan supported kashmiri militancy and help training camps for terrorist in its soil. This
no doubt kept Kashmir problem in the psyche but ``Ye shall reap what ye seed``.
It has been common to hear about killings in Pakistan because of this psyche. A vibrant
nation it could have been, a haven for knowledge and learning it could have been, but
because of hatred and revenge mentality, it has become a pariah state.
But all is not lost. A normal Pakistani man or woman has enough talents to shine out and
if given good environment they do prosper.
May be the military should control Mullahs with a strict hand?
May be the next Karo Kiri case should be dealt with life imprisonment?
May be next rape case should be seen as a crime against humanity?
May be next bomb blast at any holy site (shia, sunni, hindu, christian) should lead to
removal of all police-people?
May be the next election should be ``free, fair and forthcoming`?
But these are wishes only..

The genesis of militancy in pakistan is a result of avarice and stupidity, both qualities found in abundance in the land of the pure.The rest of the reasons are purely consequential.