A Moment of Silence

``Muslim detainees suffered physical and verbal abuse from despotic guards under the cruelest conditions of solitary confinement and the wearing of shackles during non-contact visits. ``

Terrorist suspects in GITMO enjoy comfort and dignity compared to political prisoners in Muslim countries like Saudi, Iran, Syria etc. Heck, there would be no need for a rendition policy (sending them to Egypt) if we could torture these bastards here in the states.

``In Afghanistan hundreds of innocent Muslims were massacred in Qala-i-Jhangi. Despite international humanitarian law yelling for a moratorium on the use of cluster-weapons. Both Uncle Sam and Her Majesty`s government denied Amnesty International’s request for an investigation into the incidents at Qala-i-Jhangi fort. ``

Are you going to write a poem on ``innocent Nazis`` killed in the firebombing of Dresden? The ``innocent Muslims`` of Qala e Jhangi were all Taliban and they had killed a CIA officer. They were killed after they refused to surrender.

``Here where I live in the UK, the “Blairite” government passed scantily clad ‘emergency’ legislation which provided for detention of foreign nationals without charge or trial, thereby tailoring a nebulous shadow criminal justice system. ``

Keeping in mind the number of British Muslims arrested/killed in Kashmir, Afghanistan, Iraq etc as well as the arrest of Islamic terrorists in the UK itself makes the need for such legislation mandatory.

The Patriot Act has not affected a single American citizen and the US is under no obligation to give the same degree of protection to non Citizens.

Re: # 34

OzerK....

Y`know man, ye are like a munchkin, stirring up trouble everywhere ye goeth.Don`t draw me into this sordid stuff on a saturday.This day is reserved for my sacred pursuits of boozing and getting laid, which i single handedly pursue through to the end.Other days i would debate endlessly with you.I MEANT middle-eastern muslims ONLY.

Indian muslims form the second largest grouping of muslims in the islamic world , yet they have not stooped low to conquer.They have class.IM`s may have other peeves, but not one has been involved with terrorism either outside or in Jammu and Kashmir.Our mullah`s traipse through the world without let or hindrance.I know many innocent muslims died too on 9/11.These terrorist bastards will sacrifice anybody for their nefarious ends.

I gotta go, and i hope your weekend is all good.Cheers.

Kulsum Beig you accuse this author of political myopia yet how can you disregard the glaring chariots of fire stoked by Uncle Sam and its cohorts who are refueling the flames of racism?

The US Patriot Act is merely one case in point. Political quiescence may portend to the norm for you Kulsum and human rights a romantic idealism to your ilk, yet it is your demagoguery of the status quo that impels an uphill battle bringing all moral consciousness into dishonorable disrepute.

Public information on illegal detention post 9/11 remains scant. It is brazenly clear that many POW`s were forcibly held incommunicado. Muslim detainees suffered physical and verbal abuse from despotic guards under the cruelest conditions of solitary confinement and the wearing of shackles during non-contact visits.

In Afghanistan hundreds of innocent Muslims were massacred in Qala-i-Jhangi. Despite international humanitarian law yelling for a moratorium on the use of cluster-weapons. Both Uncle Sam and Her Majesty`s government denied Amnesty International’s request for an investigation into the incidents at Qala-i-Jhangi fort.

A number of banana republics sold all their oranges short and jumped onto the ‘anti-terrorist’ bandwagon to stifle political dissent. Since it is de rigueur. Legally definitions of ‘terrorism’ are hazardously vague. The terrorist attacks fuelled a climate of hysteria garnering a useful cloak behind which to make inroads to curb the ambillical chord of democratic rights and civil liberties.

Here where I live in the UK, the “Blairite” government passed scantily clad ‘emergency’ legislation which provided for detention of foreign nationals without charge or trial, thereby tailoring a nebulous shadow criminal justice system.

The Anti-terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001 cataclysmically contravenes Article 5(t) of the European Convention on Human Rights and Article 9 of the ICCPR [International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights] in order to allow for indefinite detention. Under the Act, the Secretary of State may order such detention, without charge or trial and without recourse to judicial review.

Kulsum what this poem attempts to portray is the hypocrisy and selectivity of governments and their handmaiden: the media. For example why do those who condemn human rights violations in Iraq negligently not protest against human rights violations by Russian troops in Chechnya, or by the authorities in Uzbekistan against Muslims who peacefully practice their faith outside the state apparatus?

Re: # 36

Dear Dr Lokraj

Your noteworthy points are well-received. Especially when you pin-point that ``Some appear to be more interested in the poet rather than the poem.``

The interest, if any, should only be geared towards the ``poem``. Its ``content``. And nothing else.

Dear Ozer Khalid

If you had hidden anything deep in this poem, you hid it too deep for this reader. Please also write something for us prosaic unpoets and not-so-profound thinkers.

Kulsum Beig you accuse this author of political myopia yet how can you disregard the glaring chariots of fire stoked by Uncle Sam and its cohorts who are refueling the flames of racism?

The US Patriot Act is merely one case in point. Political quiescence may portend to the norm for you Kulsum and human rights a romantic idealism to your ilk, yet it is your demagoguery of the status quo that impels an uphill battle bringing all moral consciousness into dishonorable disrepute.

Public information on illegal detention post 9/11 remains scant. It is brazenly clear that many POW`s were forcibly held incommunicado. Muslim detainees suffered physical and verbal abuse from despotic guards under the cruelest conditions of solitary confinement and the wearing of shackles during non-contact visits.

In Afghanistan hundreds of innocent Muslims were massacred in Qala-i-Jhangi. Despite international humanitarian law yelling for a moratorium on the use of cluster-weapons. Both Uncle Sam and Her Majesty`s government denied Amnesty International’s request for an investigation into the incidents at Qala-i-Jhangi fort.

A number of banana republics sold all their oranges short and jumped onto the ‘anti-terrorist’ bandwagon to stifle political dissent. Since it is de rigueur. Legally definitions of ‘terrorism’ are hazardously vague. The terrorist attacks fuelled a climate of hysteria garnering a useful cloak behind which to make inroads to curb the ambillical chord of democratic rights and civil liberties.

Here where I live in the UK, the “Blairite” government passed scantily clad ‘emergency’ legislation which provided for detention of foreign nationals without charge or trial, thereby tailoring a nebulous shadow criminal justice system.

The Anti-terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001 cataclysmically contravenes Article 5(t) of the European Convention on Human Rights and Article 9 of the ICCPR [International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights] in order to allow for indefinite detention. Under the Act, the Secretary of State may order such detention, without charge or trial and without recourse to judicial review.

Kulsum what this poem attempts to portray is the hypocrisy and selectivity of governments and their handmaiden: the media. For example why do those who condemn human rights violations in Iraq negligently not protest against human rights violations by Russian troops in Chechnya, or by the authorities in Uzbekistan against Muslims who peacefully practice their faith outside the state apparatus?

Dear Ozer,

I read this poem again and again... and some interacts,specially of BeeJay(as he mentioned my name in few of them)in an effort to understand why it offended some of the readers.Even on UP,some people mentioned that they find it hard to understand what you wanted to convey.

First about the content.You have touched a very pertinent topic...one of the major problem which the humanity is facing today.Its very courageous of you to speak about it in the present times when we all in general try to just be in our own shells and pretend not to see anything.To my mind,the problem people are having is to ignore the symbolism and see it in more concrete way.I dont blame them entirely for that because this happens when in a poem we mention specific events,facts and particular people.It becomes difficult to differentiate between the news paper type reports and subtlities of poetry.

Secondly,about the technical aspects of poem.Some verses are too long to be accommodated in poem and preserve the symbolic aspect.It blurrs the underlying message which is in the later part of the poem.Till reaching there,the reader becomes opinionated and ignore the wider message.

Some appear to be more interested in the poet rather than the poem.This may be because of fist and second aspects which I mentioned above or may be because of their personal curiosity to know more about you.

To be fair to BeeJay,nothing escapes his microscopic scrutiny.I agree with his observation that this ppoem does not appear to be coming stright out of heart.It seems,you have worked consciously on it,but I am sure the critism will be taken constructively and will help to improve your poetic skills.

Re: # 33

Dear Beejay,

Finally you have dispensed your opinion, in your own unique style, on the ``subject matter`` of the poem. Fair enough it is not your cup of ``chai`` and I respect that. Anyways I would still seek to ask you the question to a previous comment:

`` And where were you, O great, great knight
When Saddam’s thumb crushed rank and file``

Beejay by making the above comment are you legitimising the attrocities that are ravaging Iraqi civilians under US soldiers post-Saddam ? Seems so to me....and are you saying that what happened in Abu Ghraib is any better than Saddam`s regime ?

RSVP. Thanks.

Re: # 1

Cayenne wrote ``If the middle east muslims believe in their causes there are other means to pursue them.Not by formenting terrorism.Screw them all.``

Do you mean all the Muslims Cayenne ?

#31 Ozer

Dear Ozer,

Because of some little-understood reasons, my interactions appear to make many people mad, so there is a chance that this could make other interactors madder still. However, in fairness, and since others have chosen to do it, I must also make a good-faith attempt to provide my comments on your work itself, instead of what you call ``wisecracks``.

1. In spite of your evident and considerable shortcomings in the two areas of looks and talents (both of which are supposedly highly valued commodities in the movie industry), I must give you credit for your quality of persistence. It will be unfair to demonize somebody who can keep trying again and again and not yield an inch, no matter how utterly idiotic that person looks (believe me, I know what I am talking about). You appear to make an attempt to at least answer some of the questions that are thrown your way. The fact that you have dared to address mine from earlier indicates that you are VERY courageous!

2. Not being a literary person, my main complaint with your work is as follows – there appears to be a lack of conviction in your words. My janitorial skills tell me that these words are not quite genuine. The lines of the poem are long (too long), the subject matter too diffused, and every one of your words appears to have been contrived to meet some particular objective. Real poetry (at least the way this janitor sees it) must flow from the heart – yours does not – in fact it appears to owe its origin to the source which our friend Cayenne often (alas, too often) using his own brand of humor, refers to as “where the sun don’t shine”.

3. In my view, use of multiple nicks to conduct conversations with yourself is a patently fraudulent act (mind it, I have no problem with individuals having several nicks for different occasions), a practice you clearly engage in. It shows utter disrespect for the average intelligence level of your intended audience. The fact is that not only you have done so in the past (and never denied it), you continue to engage in this fraudulent act here too. This indicates that you have a very low opinion of your intended target audiences. This also indicates that you are incapable of changing your “spots”.

4. There is also an utter disregard for the feelings and sensitivity of others. For example, your interactor’s page, while revealing a very limited part of you (mostly superficial details) uncovers parts of other people whose concerns regarding such exposures were never taken into consideration by you. This reveals you as a selfish individual who is so consumed by his own needs of the hour that he is incapable of thinking of others.

5. There also appears to be an element of cowardice in this work. You put up a long disclaimer-type introduction up front, as if you anticipate the adverse reaction and are trying your hardest to pre-empt it. If this piece of work were genuine in nature, you would say what came to your heart and not be wishy-washy about it! Your selective responses indicate a similar pattern – you chose to answer some questions but not others. For example, in #31, you chose to respond to the part of my comment regarding Saddam (although you completely ignored the part about “where were you?”) you skipped the part about Kashmir – which would have been a more contentious topic for this crowd.

Since I need to return to my janitorial duties at this point, let me cut this short as follows.

In summary, the beauty of any poem – even this “poem”, must and can only be judged by the proverbial eye of the beholder. As I pointed out in an earlier interact – to find a measure of beauty in this poem, one must have to be really blind, and I’ve a feeling that others may agree with that assessment.

Having said all that, it’s important to add that (even if some of the words the janitor uses are tough) I always wish everyone well, including (and perhaps especially) yourself.

Sincerely,
BeeJay.

salute...

simply awesome..

Re: # 2

Beejay wisecracks `` And where were you, O great, great knight
When Saddam’s thumb crushed rank and file``

Beejay by making the above comment are you legitimising the attrocities that are ravaging Iraqi civilians under US soldiers post-Saddam ? Seems so to me....and are you saying that what happened in Abu Ghraib is any better than Saddam`s regime ?

Why paint blood a sickly shade of pink ?

Re: # 3

Patwari

The subect-matter might seem ``stale`` to you but everyday Muslim civilians bear the brunt of 9/11. At the workplace. In social gatherings. At school. In airport terminals. And the shopping list is ceaseless....

So I would challenge your assumption Patwari by stating that 9/11 is very topical and will remain so as the wheels of time turn.

Farzana

You are one of the few individuals who has made a concerted effort towards ``constructive`` remarks on the poem itself. It is hoped (rather optimistically) that other interactors emulate this trail and make ``constructive criticism`` on the poem and its substantive subject matter.

Interactors, engage in relevance rather than resorting to enfeabled attempts at character slander. Chowk cannot remain an electronic boxing-ring for sheepish spineless characters who have way too much time swinging on the pendulum of their lives. The whistle is blown. The bouts have finished. The boxing match (should) be over.

Are we grown up enough on this forum ? Or will we carry on Eminemishly tit-for-tatting ? If readers do not have anything relevant to say let them plead the 5th Ammendment and retain their right to remain wisely silent.

Re: # 18

Dear readers, I will digress, and since I do have a captive audience, besides Hamid is gagging for it...well if you all insist I must:

At long last my numero uno fan Hamid M has graced us with his appearance....you have been sorely missed by your cheer-leader bimbettes....you are now a Corollary (look it up in the dictionary Hamid good boy now...) to anything I write. So this one is dedicated specially for you.

There will be many more coming up. So belly and chin up for the roller-coaster ride Hamid boyyy...

With his infinite pearls of wisdom Hamid wisecracks ``if this is a poem then i am a peter pan``

Hamid you are treading on very thin ice. By claiming to be ``Peter Pan`` you are sounding more and more like your arch-hero Michael Jackson. Im sure that the similitude and intimate affinity between yourself and Wacko Jacko runs deeper than ``moon-walking`` ! Perhaps certain less benign habits you would like to share with the general public ?

Hamid M then quizically ponders, in a Hamlet sort of manniere ``whether to wear briefs or boxers?``

The fact that Hamid knows how to wear either is utter misguidance. Hamid things are done incrementally. Once mummy ceases your nappy training session only then you can go on to wear briefs or boxers. Oh sorry I forgot they have to perform a very rare nip and tuck upon thee Hamid jeeeee....ahhh good luck in surgery.....

Hamid feeling desolate peers toward the limitless-blue sky and asks ``who is going to clean up this mess`` ?

This is where Benevolent Beejay with his bacteria-addled mop intervenes and self-crusadingly mops up ...but he soon becomes cognizant that what he has mopped is actually his own excrement....gollly gosh more mopping up is needed by a more adept janitor. Time to hang your keys now Mr Janitor! Good boy.....

Hamid then fuels his batteries and like a regal Easter bunny jumps up and enlighteningly quotes ``the ummah has been wronged and it is justified in blowing up things that they do not understand and cannot hope to build themselves is that it?.......As usual our eager infant is running before he can crawl and has not even read the prologue. Surprise. Surprise !!!

Hamid summarises ``now can we get back to working on the dinner menu`` ?

Hamid (M)anure the menu for tonight is what our resident janitor has mopped up. Would you like to sample a tad bit ?

A la carte menu to be continued....................................

Signed

``Machiavelli`s child``

Dear Farzana

Gracias ``por`` your thought-provoking interact.

Farzana types “That is the reason why I thought your prologue could either be seen as defensive or a pre-emptive self-chastisement before a `crime`”.

Farzana the prologue is actually a caveat for all those who seek to tar this poem with the brush of bearing a fundamentalist slant. But since pigeon-holing is society’s favourite recreation the labelling comes as second-nature to sheepish interactors. Commonly found on these forums.

“This is too vast a spectrum...or if irony befits, then the unseeing naked masses are helpless products of Machiavellis.Their ears too are ``clogged with wax``, but for different reasons”.

FV a very poignant remark. The “Machiavelli`s” constitute a hegemonic superstructure (media, policies, government, laws) and an economic sub-structure (macro and micro) which wilfully eclipse the retina of the eyes so that the masses are blinded and stripped of any “garb” of intellectuality leaving them “unseeing” “naked” and “helpless”.

FV interacts “I hope you are not one of those who will stay snug only in the ``anguish and affliction``.

Rather than staying “snug” these gruesome global verities make me feel “stung”. Indeed lines drawn in the sand of perfection suffer a windy fate. And sculptures are never carved to perfection. Though that should never cease the sculptor from carry on chiselling. My chisels are words. For in the cyber universe they are all I can fall back on.

``Both are hunters with hungry intent``? Why kill your own lines?

FV sometimes a stab to one`s own style is uplifting. It puntures any traces of ego.

”Also, the use of some words in Caps appeared self-conscious- the flow should be its own emphasis.”

If anything they were “sub-conscious”.

``But tonight, we will keep on screaming``...and will you hear those screams when your ears are clogged with wax?

``Rhetorically`` they are meant to be clogged. But Farzana are they in practice ?

Farzana comments: ”Are you sure?! Pray, why? If innocuous poetry can be magnetic and refrigerators can be frozen, then I`ll be damed to leave the poets”.

Ebbing towards a “Dead Poet`s Society” ?

Farzana concludes “You will understand that I am only ``slaying``, only ``singing``, but not for ``the dead``...but for those who strive to be alive.

As opposed to those who merely “exist”?

RSVP. Many thanks.

It seems that ``cyber-ghosts`` and ``cyber-witches`` make a stellar ensemble do you not opine FV ?