Who Tarnished the Image of Pakistan?

Re: # 48

``You found it noteworthy to mention Pakistani company wanted to export Suzuki auto parts to Maruti in India. I have a hard time believing that you cannot remember the company name``...

Over here we are talking in all sincerity...not making things up, at least that’s what I am doing, and I hope you are as well. Eventually I did recall the name...I hope you got it in the previous message.

``For the record India has a far more sophisticated auto parts industry than Pakistan``

Till Mid 1990s India had a very closed economy as compared to Pakistan. Pakistani products being exposed to international competition were therefore of high quality and therefore had an edge over Indian products. India manufacturers on the other hand were manufacturing on a large scale and therefore had advantage over cost as compared to Pakistan. It makes sense for a business person to look for products those are of better quality and are cheaper as well, it therefore did made sense for maruti manufacturer to request Indian government to allow them to buy from Pakistan. I think it would have been much wiser if you could have got in touch with Maruti and got this verified. Merely brushing aside other arguments based on personal whims doesn`t make sense, or does it?

``Despite your numerous grievances against India Indian state is a soft state. You want to know countries where might is right. Try North Korea, pre-1990 China, Vietnam, Burma, Iran, Iraq under Saddam, Syria unde late Assad, Sudan, old Soviet Union``

Well bbabu, we sure have different dictionaries that define the term ``soft``....take a look at dec. 2002 times front cover (one of the four), and than explain me what is soft?

Let not expand our discussion to other countries ... nevertheless, I am surprised your mentioning of old soviet...yes you sure can say it now, and I am sure you will say it against USA one day too...not now for now it for you what old soviets were once.

``Try to win a war before you start boasting``
Well India is lucky to have the support of big powers to help it against Pakistan on every occasion. When only once it tried to deal on its own it was losing wasn`t it?

``Do you understand the meaning of freedom ? I have the right to choose my friends. Friendship is a privilege not a right.``

I am surprised still will commend you, the only sentence that does make sense and good one from my standards...so cheers for it is a good one, keep thinking and writing like this and I am sure I will find us on the same path, no need of any more arguments!

``Please spare me this nonsense on behaviour and writing skills. Stick to the facts and arguments. Shall we ?``
Smiles, bbabu, just read your previous and present messages, you will understand why I wrote that message last time

sifzal #49

````You found it noteworthy to mention Pakistani company wanted to export Suzuki auto parts to Maruti in India. I have a hard time believing that you cannot remember the company name``...``

`` Over here we are talking in all sincerity...not making things up, at least that’s what I am doing, and I hope you are as well. Eventually I did recall the name...I hope you got it in the previous message. ``

okay I will give you the benefit of doubt.


`` Till Mid 1990s India had a very closed economy as compared to Pakistan. Pakistani products being exposed to international competition were therefore of high quality and therefore had an edge over Indian products. India manufacturers on the other hand were manufacturing on a large scale and therefore had advantage over cost as compared to Pakistan. It makes sense for a business person to look for products those are of better quality and are cheaper as well, it therefore did made sense for maruti manufacturer to request Indian government to allow them to buy from Pakistan. I think it would have been much wiser if you could have got in touch with Maruti and got this verified. Merely brushing aside other arguments based on personal whims doesn`t make sense, or does it? ``

It is true Pakistan was exposed to international competition. Usually that meant import of foreign goods.

Indian government liberalized the cement, two wheeler, color television and a bunch of other insignificant industries in the 1980-1985 timeframe. The two wheeler industry has always been competitive since the early 1980s. The TVS group was far more sophisticated than anything Pakistan could have in the 1980s. Search for ``TVS``, ``quality``` and ``awards`` on Google.

It is irrelevant that Maruti could have would have and should have ordered. It never happened. I have seen proposals where Toyota exported trucks from India to Pakistan and Camry sedans from Pakistan to India. Do you really think Pakistani workers can produce better Camry sedans than Japanese workers ? The only reason for silly Japanese proposals was to get around auto part duties and quotas. Japanese car companies are pretty good at that.

`` Let not expand our discussion to other countries ... nevertheless, I am surprised your mentioning of old soviet...yes you sure can say it now, and I am sure you will say it against USA one day too...not now for now it for you what old soviets were once. ``

Given the scope of their power USA is not a hard state. They have exhibited enormous restraint against Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iran etc. They have forgiven old adversaries like Vietnam, Libya under Qadafi etc. They could bomb the crap of the Hezbollah in Lebanon. They have maintained intense pressure on human right violators like North Korea, Burma, Sudan etc. There is no reason why North Korean or Burmese generals would not kiss upto Bush if he lifted American sanctions on them.

`` Well India is lucky to have the support of big powers to help it against Pakistan on every occasion. When only once it tried to deal on its own it was losing wasn`t it? ``

First Pakistan never had the ability to seize large amounts of Indian territorry. Right now the Pakistani army would have a hard time marching 50-100 kilometers into Indian Punjab or Rajasthan. They have zero capability to sustain logistics for more than a few days. That is precisely the reason for intruding 5-10 miles in Kargil with a small number of commandos.
Otherwise send a division and seize the whole heights.

Second if Pakistan got lucky and caught India unprepared it does not have the ability to withstand the Indian military counter-attack.

The total number of long range PAF strikes into Indian territorry is one. In 1971 they tried to hit the Agra air force base without any luck.

To say India needs the help of a foreign power is preposterous. It is always Pakistan that has been been afraid of Indian numerical edge.

Re: # 50
``To say India needs the help of a foreign power is preposterous. It is always Pakistan that has been been afraid of Indian numerical edge. ``

bbabu fear from the world is not in the dictionary of a true Muslim.

Nevertheless, I may differ on the logics of your reasoning, but I will respect and appreciate your approach in this discussion which has gradually evolved towards fairness especially since the last two interacts. I also sincerely hope you do get more exposure to the facts of this world. I, for instance, have worked with the premier world organizations at a level where the parameters are designed and finalised based on which categorisation of development and welfare of countries are assessed. This world is a big stage show for words and statistics play. Both of these when projected through clever media the masses are moved. Not many escapes the magic webbed by this stage performance. I have seen this from the back of the stage, and I wish for you the same. I am sure you will agree, personal egos or state bigoted ness should not be allowed to take over the truth and justice.

I commented somewhere on Chowk that if India kept on getting their leaders like those of the present times, it has all the potential to assume second largest economy position in next 30 years. But the history and realities of practical life makes it a distant reality, nevertheless it can still perform well and ensure its 250 million people also comes out of poverty line. Another amazing reality is that Pakistan has always come up with surprises. Despite not having India like US and Soviet backing and support in the economic and nuclear fields it has proved to be matching up with India; technical analysis of nuclear testing suggest Pakistan to be more advanced than India. I have a feeling it will remain doing so in future.

My all good wishes and prayers for Pakistan`s prosperity with real (not the media hyped extremist) Islamic values and sincere wishes that the two countries do live peacefully (I hope it does not remain a wishful thinking).

sifzal #51

Re: # 50
``To say India needs the help of a foreign power is preposterous. It is always Pakistan that has been been afraid of Indian numerical edge. ``

`` bbabu fear from the world is not in the dictionary of a true Muslim. ``

Is the reasoning for this the same as 10 pak soldiers equal to one Indian soldier ?

`` I commented somewhere on Chowk that if India kept on getting their leaders like those of the present times, it has all the potential to assume second largest economy position in next 30 years. But the history and realities of practical life makes it a distant reality, nevertheless it can still perform well and ensure its 250 million people also comes out of poverty line. Another amazing reality is that Pakistan has always come up with surprises. Despite not having India like US and Soviet backing and support in the economic and nuclear fields it has proved to be matching up with India; technical analysis of nuclear testing suggest Pakistan to be more advanced than India. I have a feeling it will remain doing so in future. ``

Pakistan has received three times more foreign aid from USA on a per captia basis than India. Pakistan has received large amounts of money from Gulf states. This offsets any Soviet economic assistance.

What does Pakistan export ? Two thirds of Pakistani exports are textiles. After 57 years Pakistan has one steel mill, one oil refinery and no semiconductor foundries. Just what do you think you are going to export ?

India has underperformed due to license raj and poor infrastructure. The billions of dollars earned from IT is giving the Indian government a second chance to implement infrastructure projects needed to lift millions out of poverty. Why are we talking about a gas pipeline from Iran to India in 2005 ? The natural gas was always there in Iran. India and Pakistan were to the east of Iran. The only thing that is making it possible is the fact India is rich enough to buy the natural gas and make the project financially viable.

`` My all good wishes and prayers for Pakistan`s prosperity with real (not the media hyped extremist) Islamic values and sincere wishes that the two countries do live peacefully (I hope it does not remain a wishful thinking). ``

Until Pakistan wraps up all these dealings with Al Qaeda and Taliban they will be mired in instability.

The chivalrous male population of Punjab, the total 60% of total population do have their own way DOING THINGS. This only is the grand reason that we have a nuclear weapon but no law, system or civic sence. In all the instances came up during 10/15 years time, all happened in Punjab, where ladies were raped in front of people, the whole population stood massaging their genitalia instead of doing something to stop this crime. Then international media picks up the news ``IT HAPPENED IN PAKISTAN``, HEY, EXCUSE ME, anybody tell me if this had happened in Karachi...? nada. Sinee the Government is loaded with all major Political figures from Punjab, they try their best to save the culprits as some of them might be their cousins etc. Govt`s attitude towards these rape victim is like these
ladies are ``UNWILLING RECIPIENT OF HUMAN SPERM``. So whats the deal here, I nobody gives an F over there, cause they are busy and willing to put a Pak flag on top fo their houses, AAAAH, FREEDOM TASTES AND SMELL SO GOOOOD.