Reforms! What Reforms?

Goodbye Free Speech.

I guess Interaction section needs moderation once again. All the useless peoples who can`t log in to their respective sites due to entrance fees are commenting here.

thank god HEC doesnt hava army ..... they would have declared martial law too....i am not just hurt but also scared of the prophecy of landslide of more bad professors in the future..too bad none of them is fired but then 99% would be fired .....who will run the departments??..nightmare!

It is fortunate that Pakistan still has got people like Prof. Hoodbhoy who are brave enough to expose HEC`s much publicised reforms. In my opinion, instead of making an angry reply, the HEC should be publishing critical comments made on its reforms made by a senior academic, with explanations offered subsequently. To how far extent HEC is affected by Prof. Hoodbhoy`s analysis of its reforms I remain unsure, but it was indeed revealing for many silent observers who trust and believe in comments coming from a person of high academic and scientific integrity.

Any reason why the latest hindi film from that pak-kissing, cheap, bollywood producer mahesh bhatt failed?.Methinks it`s `cause of a hawk nosed , high cheek boned pak witch with man-lips. And, these paks can`t even feed themselves and they have the b*lls to talk about other endeavors.A kilo of onions in India Rs5.00.A kilo of onions in pak Rs.45.00.I rest my case.Let them import onions , garlic and tomatoes from er, kazakhstan.Kazkhstan doesn`t grow any either!!.hAhA.

Now, we are talking important stuff - women. :)

shankar: what is the secret of the world-reknowned beauty of you bumbai brahmins?? is it the soap you use (as pakistani film actresses use to remind us at one time on TV that their beauty secret was Lux Toilet Soap)??

Hyuk! Hyuk!! Hyuk!!!

I CANT believe this!
My posts actually made it past Chowk filters!
Hello, ``computerised`` Chowk!
Is anybody awake in there?!!!

I guess it must be the genious we handsome brahmins have been humbly endowed with!

Its a fact; yaar!
Google it; if you dont believe me!
We brahmins from Bombay are GOOD!
but we are EXTREMELY humble....

I mean we are so humble, that we just cant stand ourselves!

Re: # 113
JanabAtif-mia ji;

Right now Mia Abrar`s wife looks like Madhubala....

Within 9 months, she will give Mr Horny Abrar his first child..
& will look like Madhubala with a double chin, stretch marks & slightly sagging boobs.

Within 10 yrs, Madhubala will be on her 8th child,
sport a triple chin...
have a belly only slightly smaller than Abrar mian`s...
her poor breasts will sag down to knees because of the gallons of milk they have to produce to suckle all those hungry (but handsome) mouths.

By that time; Abrar mian will be getting a nikah with his first cousin Meena Kumari as wife #2.

On his suhaag raat with Meena Kumari, he will summon Madhubala & say :

``O ji Soonte ho!

Meri sapnon ki Raani!!

I have good news for you!!!

I will not be needing your services at least 6 months!!!!

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so be a good muslima wife & do some research about the possibility of my 14 yr niece Saira Bano & her 12 yr sister Waheeda Rehman as potential future wife #3 & wife # 4...

On second thoughts; make that only 5 months.. (I`m feeling magnanimous tonite...meri jaan)....

By then my darling Meena Kumari will be pregnant...& I`ll have to impregnate you with our 9th child.....You BETTER give me a SON; this time!

If you do; I will consult with my local mullah & see if he knows whether Ibn Sheik Mustafa Chisti has written a treatise on group sex between a Punjabi muslim & 4 chaste wives. I`m sure SOME great muslim has written a thesis on Islamic Sexology

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now that Science has been ``Islamised`` in the Land of the Pure.....

OK; yaaar; sorry...cheap jokes apart.....
Whats YOURE story?; boss?
I mean...as a psychiatrist...
I feel it is my professional duty to tell you that you have some VERY SERIOUS psychological issues...
Ogling another man`s wife INDEED!!!...

My handsome Punjabi birather...
Please forgive me...
but in Indian culture, that is called being...er...
ONE SICK PERVERT!!!!!!!!

My dearest & best katlu friend from the wrong side of the border, Umair-mian, the most handsomest Kashmiri (????Punjabi) from the utopia called Azaaaaaaaad Kashmir (may peace & eternal happiness befall your family & all the good muslim people of Gilgit & Buttfuckedegyptistan);


{{ Don’t quite your day job. You have no future as a comedian…………Leave that to the professionals like hamidm……….. }}

a) I have NO intentions of ``QUITE-ING`` my day job as a shrink in Americistan.

b)I am NOT a comedian

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never was, never will be & never had the slightest inclination of being one (though there is a lot of money in it).

c) My only....er ...``sin``... is to tell the TRUTH...bluntly, profanely, brutally honestly & politically & culturally incorrectly.

d)If anybodies feeeeelings are hurt because of my politically incorrect & profane language (even worse; question my...er...`` parental upbringing``)...can kiss my brown brahmin butt...

e) This is how we Bombayites (regardless of religion )TALK......that includes ``40-something`` women from Bombay. Do you think we talk like this in front of our parents, relatives & children?!....Get REAL!! Butt Fakhr!! We can be as hypocritical as the best of them!

f) Come to Bombay FIRST & THEN talk, butthead, about the beauty of Bombay women.

g) QUESTION: what is the difference between a 40-something Punjabi woman from Bombay & a 40-something Punjabi woman from Lahore (AKA...``auntie``)?
ANSWER: 1) The former is married to a man who ISNT circumcised...& PROUD of it! & DOESNT need Viagra as his arterioles arent clogged with gobs of cholesterol.
2) The latter`s husband is a balding pot belied moron who looks more ``pregnant`` than his ever-pregnant wife...
3) The former Puinjabi gal (& hubby) jog in their shorts on Juhu beach & worli seaface, or go to the gym religiously, drink frikking spirulina & carrot skim milkshakes & have only 1-2 children; who get educated in some of the finest colleges in Bombay (which,
with ALL humility, can compete with ANY American college).
4) The former envies her 40-something marathi professional classmate for her dusky good-looks (& shapely boobs & butt to match). The later looks at her Pathan classmate (who, by now, looks like a fair bhains

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& has twice as many kids as her Punjabi saheli)...with absolute PITY...
5) I think even an ...er...``intellectually challenged`` Mirpuri/Rajputi?Punjabi?Gilgiti?Kashmiri like you can grasp the point I`m making by now....


As far hamid-mia....NOBODY....but NOBODY...can compete with his wit.

I`m not sure what that drunken bum does for a living...but he would be a HUGE HIT with my ba-ba blacksheep friends from Bombay.

Poor guy`s (just where IS he these days? drunk ; as usual, I`ll bet) bad naseeb was that he was born in The land of the Pure DUFFERS--served in their ``world famous military`` & has been cursing us skinny horrible hindoos to feel better about the nation he said goodbye to .

Tell him to use this physician`s wife`s money & fly down to Bombay (the most incredible city in the desi universe). Hey! Bombay has a bar at every corner & at least 20 ``wine tasting `` clubs that I`m aware of. We`ll chill a fine selection of whites or reds from Tuscony, Sonoma, S. Africa, Chile or the Western Ghats of Maharsthra. Ma kasaam my dear Punjabi katlu friends; these Shiv Sena ghati marathas have figured out how to make wine which is....um...saucy, unpretentious, but pretty damned good!

{{“You guys HIT first....& THINK later!!!!”

Anyone who has figured out this characteristic has figured out Pakistanis.}}

My handsome Kashmiri katlu birather..I hate to rain on your parade.
The simple truth is TWO good-looking Kahmiri Brahmins (Nehru & Indira Gandhi) knew that even before independance. How do you think they outwitted EVERY frikking Paki leader who DARED do panga with them

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militarily, diplomatically & internationally. Burns you handsome guys...dont it?! :))

{{Asking someone from Pakistan to become a scientist is a like asking a girl from Bombay to become a super-model. }}

Hahahahah!!!
Yo moron!
Like I said, come to Bombay FIRST; see for YOURSELF & then talk!
Like LA...India`s HOTTEST women make a beeline to Bollywood pal...that includes katlu wanna-be Bombay-ites like frikking Meera?Meena...whatever.... from Jihad Central.

Gee...Umair...Paki women are TOO SACRED (er....excuse me....tooo....er ...``shareeef`` to compete with Indian women in the Miss Universe contest.)
You Jihad`s should get a NOBEL PRIZE for making excuses for ducking out of a head-to-head competetion; like a Miss Universe pagent.

OK...by this time...either you are angry enough to be homicidal....
or depressed enough to be suicidal...
I`m truly very, very sorry for hurting your ...er...kutb minar......NOT!!!!!!!!

Even a `not so good` photo of Rai doesn`t compare to the hawk nosed, high cheek boned witches from Pak with pancake make up.The world doesn`t care for hawk nosed high cheel boned witches with pancake make up.The world cares for dusky indian women woth beautiful eyes.Sorry!!.And, two of the world`s top runway models, Diana Hayden and Tara Sharma come to mind(there are more) are blazing trails on the catwalk.Sour grapes again!!.

re:106 rumpus
Quite impolite, unhealthy and diseased person’s attitude!!
I don’t mind, instead, I am feeling pity for an old-aged guy.

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#113 by atif2

[Recently an average singer in pakistan, abrar-ul-haq, got married to a girl who is neither an actress or a model. She will most likely be a housewife for the rest of her life. Now lets compare that housewife with the super model of India.]

I can show you any number of housewives in India who look much better than the lady whose pic you posted. This is just no reason to gloat about who is better and who is not. It only goes to show the absurdity of how Pakis feel they are better looking than Indians.

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#109 by CheGuevara and #110 by premwalla

LMAO!!! You guys are a riot!

Re: # 110
Haha true... although I thought they would prefer someone a little younger. Charsadda is a little town in the NWFP you can take a guess at what its famous for

#109, Che,
You shouldn`t have included Peshawar or Kohat in that list. :) They prefer Shah Rukh Khan.
Also, where the hell is Charsadda?

Now tell me which picture would your average teenager in Lahore, Faisalabad, Gujranwala, Peshawar Kohat or Charsadda be found jerking off to?

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Shankar #103: Don’t quite your day job. You have no future as a comedian…………Leave that to the professionals like hamidm………..

“You guys HIT first....& THINK later!!!!”

Anyone who has figured out this characteristic has figured out Pakistanis. Considering the fact that Pathans and Baluchis are even more off the scale, on the above characteristics, than Punjabis, this is our defining quality. Pakistanis act first and think later. It is embedded deep into our genes. This is why the world is (perhaps quite rightly) scared of us having nuclear weapons. This is also why we are the only country, in the world, that is not scared to go toe-to-toe with a neighbour eight times our size.

This is also why we make bad businessmen and salesmen, and have absolutely no chance at becoming scientists)………

Asking someone from Pakistan to become a scientist is a like asking a girl from Bombay to become a super-model. Or like asking an African-American why he is Black. It isn’t as if he turned Black overnight. One has to go back tens of generations to figure out why he is Black. Much like one has to go back tens of generations to figure out why the Bombay lady cannot be a model……Similarly one has to go back, generations, to figure out why Pakistanis cannot study science……….

The areas of Pakistan (barring the freakish coincidence of Abdus Salam) have not produced any scientists over the past thousands of years. Even Arabs – who cannot, today, walk straight and chew gum at the same time – have produced so many scientists in their history. But how many Punjabi, Baluchi, Sindhi, or Pathan (or Kashmiri) scientist can one name, starting from the time of Alexander till today? Other than musical instruments what have they invented?

This is why I think Hoodbhoy is going to be frustrated in Pakistan. He is trying to preach science to people, who act first and think later. And who, generationally, have been more interested in having a good time and good food, than in having a good particle accelerator……..

re 104.
cutehumna, you`re such an idiot that it`s amusing. ``urs`` is not a word, it`s yours; besides what you meant to say was your and not ``yours``. i take your comparison to dr. hoodbhoy as a compliment! maybe you should check out this ashram mentioned in post 105 so while it might not improve your academic skills, it might help you loosen up some!

Re: # 100

Spend a week in the Osho ashram in Pune, Maharashtra, India, started by the infamous Bhagwan Rajneesh.No ugly people here, healthy food, good music, central air and GREAT SEX!!!.You`re too late.The OSHO ashram is alive and thriving long after it`s founder has departed.Long live the open society of India, where MAD swamis,mullahs and fathers(priests) coexist with hippies,society witches,gay bollywood actors, accountants and politicians. Jai Hind.

Intolerance, impatience and low temperament are the qualities that come with ageing. Perhaps “rumpus” is undergoing this process. The high BP is not good for health so reduce the contents of sodium salt in urs diet.
It seems that “rumpus” and “Hoodbhoy” are mirror images of each other. In my opinion this discussion is quite useless and just wastage of time.

Re: # 97

My dear cousin (5000 times removed),

As they say in Shiv Sena land; Bombay (where I am spending 3 weeks currently)

AICHI GAAND!!!

{{Hoodbhoy is actually a bania. Which is why he is so frustrated amongst us (I am using, “us,” since Punjabi is my mother tongue also) ignorant Punjabis. No Punjabi (barring a microscopic minority) has enough brains to do a Ph.D. }}

Actually, Hoodbhoy talks like a bloomin` Parsi in India.
Those bloomin` shameless anglophilic bawas will curse each & every thing about India....
but will they ever leave India?!.....
noooooooo!!
those mofos live like lords in Bombay (most of them) & call Indians ``natives`` (er...behind their backs; ofcourse)....
if those snobs werent the geniouses they actually are; I would have actively petitioned that neo-nazi moron Maratha Balasaheb Thackrey to have his Shiv Sena goondas ethnically cleanse those bugger refugees from Persia back to their ``homeland`` England!

HEH HEH!!!

I`ll bet you Mohammed Ali Jinnah was culturally more like a Parsi than a bloomin` ``regular`` katlu....ie more British than the British!

Poor Cowasjee believed in the Pakistan of Jinnah`s vision....only to have have it crashed by the GREATEST & BEST export that India has given Pakistan

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the Deobandhi brand of Katlus from Lucknow!

Between those chuts, the Barevelis, the Naqsbandhis , the Goddamned Wahabi imports of Saudi land & other assorted Sunni idiots, Pakistan has become ``Jihad Central``.....no matter how much spin doctoring Mushy & his protege Umair Raja justify it otherwise.

Poor senile Cowasjee, all he can do is whine how screwed up Karachi is; like his bawa cohorts whine about Bombay.


{{Punjabis rely on their good looks and social skills, and not on their brains, to get ahead in life. And their interests lie in good food, and not in good science. The better looking people are the less they need to study. This is the rule of history.}}

Nice spin; butthead!
Yo! munda!!
Get some brains FIRST; THEN talk!:))

One more thing; youre women look REAL cute when they are young....
but once they land a hubby, they let their figures go...& become cute, FAT, New Jersey cows!
I hope Pathan women are little better--in that regard!

BTW,Saala gandu; Mr Butt Fakhr; tu Punjabi kab bangaya!!!?

All this time you proudly claimed to be a Kashmiri katlu of Azaaaaaaaad Kashmir!
Sounds like you become a Kashmiri when it suits you...
& Punjabi when it suits you.....

To paraphrase Seinfeld; you SOB Kashmiri katlus become Punjabis JUST FOR THE JOKES!!

But I`ll hand it to you...the metaphorical DICKS of Punjabi men (euphemism for ``pride``) are bigger than the bloomin` Kutb Minar & so hard that you can pound nails with them.

OK OK dhullabhatti or Tauheed saheb & other Punjabi brothern of mine,
I know generalisations are odious...

...so dont take offense...maybe you guys are exceptions to the rule
but what is it about Punjabi men??? (religion doesnt seem to have any effect on this characteristic)
You guys HIT first....
& THINK later!!!!

With all humility; you should be like us humble Saraswat Brahmins...beauty AND brains in the same mug!

...Now be good boys and pickup my bucket of nightsoil...
PRONTO!!!!

PS:
The only people who are more IDIOTIC than Punjabis are these Mirpuri/Punjabi/ Rajputi/Kashmiri katlus from Azaaaaaad Kashmiri!
When blowing up Hindian soldiers in ``enslaved`` Kashmiri doesnt work....
they blow up Brits in Englistan!!

Nice going; ustaaads!

yeah blondes are not dumb for no reason.

Romair # 97 - Indeed, good looks are inversely proportional to the number of degrees collected.

The relationship I mentioned above is the only thing I remember from my calculus class (or was it culculus? ).

And hence my good looks.

dullahbhatti/tahmad#: Good music, Good food, Good clothes, Good looks and Good air-conditioning (not necessarily in that order) are the five essentials of life. I am seriously thinking of starting a religion, which will only allow people who have, and appreciate the above, to join...........No ugly people, who dress funny, eat smelly food and can`t dance will be allowed into the religion...........

If one has the above five, one will be happy, with or without a Van de Graaf decelerator or accelerator. Amongst South Asians, Punjabis have the best music. They have the best food. They have the best clothes. And they have the second-best looks (behind Pathans). The only thing they don`t have is good air-conditioning, because they aren`t intelligent enough to understand how it can be built.......

Four out of five ain`t bad..............

So, if the accelerator/decelator can improve provide me with better air-conditioning, I am interested. Otherwise, bring on the Multani halwa tay Phajjay day payee and turn on Daler Mehndi..........

hahaha...romair that was good....I mean sarcastic and humorous.

The ztv`s Punjabi channel Alpha-Punjabi has just started broadcasting in US and I am getting it for free for 2 weeks...I love it..it is all in Punjabi..it is all about 2 things...Bhangra/nachna/gaana and food. I was talkign to a relatie lady on this and I said they should have some good Punjabi serials on this channel to make it more addictive..she said not really....for that we have regular ZTV.

Also, what do Punjabis talk about after eating dinner? about breakfast.
Our women are obsessed with clothing....I calculated that my last trip to India we spent 50% of our time and 80% of our money on shopping for one woman (you can guess who she is)...when I pointed that out she was...like..main kehRa roz jaani aan India.

Romair: I see that you have written a provocative post - chowk staff dont pay you for writing provocative posts I hope (i.e. to stir up a discussion). :-)

Bhatti Saab #92: “and Hoodbhoy is not even a bania.....or is he”

A man was walking on a hot dusty dirty road, in Punjab. At a distance, he saw a lone berry tree. He walked up to the tree and saw a young Punjabi man, wearing just an underwear, who had climbed onto the tree, and was eating berries, without a worry in the world. The man asked, “What are you doing?” The underwear-clad Punjabi guy on the tree, eating berries, replied,

“Badshaho; Zindagi dae doe hee shauk unn; changaa khaana, tay, changaa paana”

Hoodbhoy is actually a bania. Which is why he is so frustrated amongst us (I am using, “us,” since Punjabi is my mother tongue also) ignorant Punjabis. No Punjabi (barring a microscopic minority) has enough brains to do a Ph.D. They (we) don’t know one end of a Van de Graaf accelerator from another. For every Punjabi Arfa who has cleared the MCSE exam, at the young age of 9, there are a thousand Punjabi Arifs, who have been unable to clear it by the age of 39; even after multiple attempts. So they (we) just get a high-school diploma and behave like we have a Ph.D.

Punjabis rely on their good looks and social skills, and not on their brains, to get ahead in life. And their interests lie in good food, and not in good science. The better looking people are the less they need to study. This is the rule of history. How many degrees do Paris Hilton and Tom Cruise have? This is my theory on why South Indians have so many degrees. North Indians have far fewer. Pakistanis have hardly any. And Afghanis have none.

So the HEC is wasting its time trying to invest in S&T. No one in Pakistan has any interest in that. Now, if they were to invest in good Punjabi food. like Nihari, Sri Payee, Mughz,, Biryani, Mithay Chaawal, Karahi Gosht, and Kapooray, people in Pindi and Lahore would take interest.

Hoodbhoy was born on the wrong side of the border. I see nothing, but a life of frustration for him, in Punjab. And even more frustration for him in NWFP, Sind and Baluchistan. His ideas are more suitable and will find more appeal in Karnatka and Kerala. Punjabis are more interested in, “Changaa khana, tay, changa paana.” As long as one has good food, good clothes, and good friends (who are willing to unconditionally help you cheat on any exam), what does one need particle accelerators and cutting-edge biomolecular chemistry for!!

Re: # 84

Its true believers like these that make me want to get out of this country and never look back.

A country that cannot supply the needs of its` citizens should stop acting as if it is somebody and get real.If you guys cannot produce your daily groceries why even think about education reform??.Put your house in order first, stop acting as if you matter, and then rejoin the community of nations as a responsible member!!.......

ISLAMABAD, July 19: The import of five essential items from India allowed in the first week of May has not materialized even after the passage of 75 days and prices of some of these items have almost doubled since.

Informed sources told Dawn on Tuesday that New Delhi was unwilling to facilitate the import unless Islamabad granted it transit facility to export Indian products to Afghanistan through land route.

So far, only 200 heads of livestock through land route to Lahore and about 60 containers of beef and mutton through ships to Karachi have been imported, said Economic Adviser to Prime Minister Dr Ashfaq Hassan Khan.

The import of the rest of items like onion, potato, tomato and garlic has not taken place so far. As a result, the potato prices have increased from Rs15 per kg in May to Rs40-45 per kg now. The prices of garlic have increased to Rs90-100 per kg against Rs40-42 per kg in May.

However, the prices of tomato and onions have either stabilized or slightly reduced.

When asked whether more than 150 animals being imported by a private party from India had been stuck up at the Wahga border due to quarantine problems, Dr Ashfaq said the first consignment of about 200 animals had reached Pakistan.

He said big hotels in Karachi had already imported in the past few days 60-65 containers of beef and mutton through ships, each containing 11-12 tons of meat. The landed cost of both beef and mutton in Karachi averaged Rs80-82 per kg, he said.

He claimed that these imports had already helped contain the rising trend in meat prices as the average price of mutton had declined from Rs199 per kg to Rs190-195 per kg.
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By-the-by, inflation in India is at 4.33%, considering a billion plus people have to be fed and on the move, a remarkable achevement.Is it by coincidence that we have a PhD/scientist/engineer as our President and a PhD/economist/bureaucrat as our Prime Minister?.Indian politicians should be commended for thinking far beyond their constituencies. And paks wonder why we as a nation are being recognized the world over for our achievements.

http://www.dawn.com/2005/07/20/top4.htm

Re: # 90

STOP PRESS!!!.This young girl is actually 3 years old and has just been appointed to run Microsoft!!.Yawn.

or is he?
:-)

as when the good doctor was very very close to exposing the corruption and religious influence entrenched in the Pak education system, 10 yr old Arfa, my cousin, comes in and ruins the whole party.

Doctor you have been proven wrong....if Arfa is a product of Pakistani education system...you must be lying to us in your articles all this time.

Romair shot down a 2000 words article with a 50 letter url...what a soldier! that ratio is better than 1:10....and Hoodbhoy is not even a bania.
:-)

much smaller url

http://tinyurl.com/c7jxm

Interesting.........

http://www.pakpositive.com/common/clicks/out.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fseattlepi.nwsource.com%2Fbusiness%2F232514_msftarfa14.html

Hoodbhoy is a national treasure. Like other ants in the government`s pants, he keeps snipping away at the hotair and bs in pakistan.

OTOH, the increased funding for education is bound to have significant effect in any case. And there is massive demand for proper education. Friend of mine (from Kohat area, one of the most backward), told me they now have the highest literacy rate anywhere in Pakistan (75% or so) - and have coed colleges in a place where the culture has traditionally been among the most conservative in Pakistan.

#87 ``cutehumna``.
you must not have had enough iodine as a child in your water supply. not only is your command on the english language worse than a five year old, your skills of reasoning and logic are at par with my parakeet. If you were keen to know about Hoodbhoy`s accomplishments you might want to do a google search you moron!

This article is just rubbish. Hoodbhoy must be a politician rather than a scientist. As in politics it is allowed to let down urs opponent by every mean. He wrote this article only because of his personal grievances. In fact he can’t make any accomplishment as a scientist then he tried to get fame by this kind of fake articles.

~~Basic academic values are missing, and there is casual acceptance of abysmal ethical behavior -- cheating, lying, and plagiarism by faculty and students. Resources are wasted on an epic scale.~~

Of course they are missing. And as far as I can remember, they`ve been missing for more than twenty years now. And why not? Because after all, why would young people give a damn about science and knowledge, or having no qualms in embracing cheating and lying when many of them are convinced that all this does not matter if you say your Friday prayers, or go for Haj or Umra, and/or worse, finally manage to suck your balls into your brains and become the ultimate ``jihadi.``

Saadia Chisti has this email address dr_saadia@yahoo.com

Just in case, if someone wants to know what exactly is ``Quranization of courses`` which is worth 55 million Rs question, now.

I asked some probing questions, and Dr. Saadia Chisti responded again, and this time, she is really angry !

``To all the unbelievers,

Al-Qur`aan says to the effect, you have your own way and I have mine which means the Qur`aanic Islam.

As such do not contact me any more. HEC has full record of finances, go to it and get the details and then tell me if I have received a dime or not and for what purpose or use?

In future do not expect any reply from me I am a staunch believer in Al-Qur`aan.

If ever you can Biblize, Torohise and Quranize anything under the skies, in just 3 months, send me a copy, I will send it to the reviewers and if they find it Scientific; I will request HEC to pay you what I refused to accept from it.

From Believers in Al-Qur`aan having roots of genuine scientific knowledge.
``

My 2 cents about this article:

Prof Hoodbhoy is that kid in the fairly tale ``The Emperor`s New Clothes``, who loooooves to tell ``the Emperor``....``yo! mashoor Pakistani pehelwaano...these Pakistani emperor-wannabes...you aint got no clothes on!``

No wonder it draws irate responses from some Pakistani quarters & general ``rah-rahs`` from us slimy banias on the right side of the border. Kinda like Farzana Versey does to raise the hackles of us horrible hindoos. Kinda what makes us say ``hey! if you HATE everything about the society you live in ...why the F@ck dont you live abroad?...I mean?...is someone putting a gun to your head and making you live there?!``

Quranization of Science?!!!!

GIVE ME A FRIKKIN BREAK!
I dont care how incredible BRILLIANT this Ibn Chisti (peace be upon him & his Goddamned family) is

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somebody needs to tell him that his head needs to be examined.

I thought somebody did Pakistan a huge favor & killed that IDIOT Zia-ul-Haq. Too bad his idiotic legacy is still alive & kicking. Listen, boss; those of you who disagree with me, many of us humble folk FIRMLY believe religion & science should be kept SEPARATE...kinda like Church & State....

Yaar, isi baat per aap log from the wrong side of the border... hamesha maar kha jaaten hai!

After reading harimou`s post I`m firmly convinced that Pakistani women are about a million times smarter than their male counterparts.

Let me tell you a secret...shhhh!
If Pakistani military ever has wet dreams of winning a war with India; it should employ ONLY PAKISTANI WOMEN!
It will scare the living daylights of every frikking sardar, maratha , gorkha....& even slimy brahmins like me!!

Now, will that ever happen?!
Absolutely...sure...when pigs sprout frikkin wings!

The following is not really relevant to this article, except that here is an accomplishment by a Pakistani youngster that needs to be brought to the attention of all.

A similarly accomplished student in India is enrolled in the BE program in Electrical Engineering & Computer Science. He was admitted by Anna University after his skills were verified by graduate students. Special dispensation was granted so that he could enroll in the college though he would have been ineligible on the basis of age, not having completed high school formally, etc. He is now into his third year in a four-year BE program.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/232514_msftarfa14.html

In smarts, she`s a perfect 10
`Pakistan`s girl wonder` is likely the youngest certified Microsoft expert

By TODD BISHOP
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTER

Sitting down for a personal meeting with Bill Gates this week, 10-year-old Arfa Karim Randhawa asked the Microsoft founder why the company doesn`t hire people her age.


[IN HER OWN WORDS
Excerpts from Todd Bishop`s interview with Arfa Karim Randhawa, in MP3 format:
- Arfa describes her meeting with Bill Gates this week (1:40)
- Arfa`s poem about Bill Gates (0:34)
- Arfa describes what she wants to study in college, and what she wants to do when she grows up (1:01)
- Arfa talks about the programs she has made as part of her studies (1:23)
- Arfa recites her philosophy in life (0:14)

Please follow the URL to the article and you will find hyperlinks to the above items.]


Under the circumstances, the question wasn`t so unreasonable.

Arfa, a promising software programmer from Faisalabad, Pakistan, is believed to be the youngest Microsoft Certified Professional in the world. The designation, given to outside experts who prove their ability to work with Microsoft technologies, has also been achieved by some teenagers. But it`s far more common among adults seeking to advance their computer careers.

Arfa received the certification when she was still 9, an impressive accomplishment in its own right, according to older programmers who have gone through the process. And others called it an encouraging sign of the continued emergence of women in a country where they have historically struggled to advance.

The situation illustrates ``another side`` of Pakistan, said Anand Yang, director of the University of Washington`s Jackson School of International Studies. ``That`s another reason to celebrate someone like her.``

Arfa`s one-on-one meeting with Gates was part of a visit this week to the company`s Redmond campus, arranged and sponsored by Microsoft to better introduce Arfa to the company, and to give people at headquarters a chance to meet her. The week included lab tours and a series of informal sessions with Microsoft executives and employees, including a Pakistani employee group.

She made an impression through a combination of charm, flattery and boldness uncommon for someone her age. For example, during Arfa`s meeting with Gates, she presented him with a poem she wrote that celebrated his life story. But she also questioned him about what she perceived to be the relatively small proportion of women on the campus.

``It should be balanced -- an equal amount of men and an equal amount of women,`` she explained afterward.

About 75 percent of Microsoft employees are men, according to company data. Recounting their conversation, Arfa said Gates acknowledged her concerns and talked about the broader industry`s struggles to increase the proportion of women in technology-related fields.

Other topics they discussed included her Muslim faith and her hometown, an industrial city known for its textile businesses.

Afterward, Arfa described Gates as an ``ideal personality,`` explaining that he had been second only to Disneyland on her list of things she wanted to see in the United States. Previously unaware of the casual dress code at Microsoft, she said she had expected Gates to be wearing a suit but was surprised to find him in a casual shirt with the top button open.

``I expected that all the people would be here in suits,`` she said with a giggle, wearing a hat acquired during her earlier visit to the company`s Xbox game studios.

Later in the afternoon, she sat outside with S. ``Soma`` Somasegar, a Microsoft corporate vice president, and described her vision for a self-navigating car. He listened to her ideas and told her about some of Microsoft`s existing software for cars.

To be sure, despite her question to Gates about employing people her age, Microsoft wasn`t about to offer a job to someone so young. But Somasegar talked about the possibility of an internship in a few years.

``The thing that`s exciting to me is her passion for technology at this age,`` said Somasegar, who decided to invite Arfa to Redmond after reading a story about her in MicroNews, an internal company newsletter.

The visit to Microsoft headquarters was the culmination of a meteoric rise that has turned Arfa into something of a celebrity in her country. It began at age 5, when she walked by a computer lab at her school and started wondering about those strange ``boxes,`` the computers and monitors. Later, when she found out what they did, she was amazed.

``When you push a button, something magically appears on the box,`` she said, recalling the experience.

She eventually persuaded her father to buy a computer, and she demonstrated unexpected aptitude, using Microsoft PowerPoint and other programs. Encouraged by what she was doing, her father took her to Applied Technologies, or APTECH, an advanced computer institute nearby.

``I saw her doing something extraordinary, making presentations,`` said her father, Amjad Karim, who serves with a U.N. peacekeeping force in Africa and came with his daughter to Microsoft this week. ``That made me think that she could use some professional coaching, and she could do better in her future life.``

Karim said he is careful not to push his daughter, but wanted to make sure that the opportunities existed for her to pursue her interest. He said he first noticed something unusual when she started displaying a remarkable memory, perhaps photographic, at a young age.

The people at the computer institute required some persuading, because of her age, but they accepted her as a student, taught her about programming and ultimately told her father that she appeared to be in a position to seek Microsoft certification.

The institute instructors assumed it would take Arfa about a year to go through the process of certification for developing Windows applications. But after four months of study and work, over summer vacation, she passed the required exams.

Her programming experience so far has been as part of her studies. She has created basic Windows applications, such as a calculator and a sorting program, primarily in the C# programming language. The certification she received was as a Microsoft Certified Application Developer. She says she plans to pursue a more advanced certification, as a Microsoft Certified Solution Developer, which involves building programs into a broader system for a business.

Arfa`s accomplishment is ``very impressive,`` said Michael Earls, 33, a software consultant and Microsoft Certified Solution Developer in Atlanta. ``The type of thinking that goes into correctly answering those questions is pretty mature. ... Microsoft certifications are not a joke -- they`re highly respected in the industry.``

Ultimately, Arfa says, she would like to go to Harvard University or MIT, and then either go to work for Microsoft, in its developer division, or become a satellite engineer.

Since learning about Arfa from her father -- and validating her programming abilities through an additional exam of their own -- Microsoft representatives in Pakistan have held her up as an example in the country.

``We discovered her, we ran into her, we feel very lucky,`` said Jawwad Rehman, Microsoft`s country manager in Pakistan, who also accompanied her to Redmond this week. ``But I`m sure there are many others out there, as well, who don`t have access to the computers or the proper education system`` as Arfa did.

As word of her accomplishment has spread in her country, Arfa has appeared on TV, in newspapers and spoken at Microsoft events. One youth magazine called her ``Pakistan`s girl wonder.`` A U.S.-based reporter for GEO TV, a 24-hour news and entertainment channel in Pakistan, came to Redmond this week to document her visit to the campus.

Although she has had a birthday since passing the certification test last year, Arfa is careful to point out that she was 9 when she took the exam. More precisely, she says, she was nine years, nine months, 11 days, and six hours. Fully aware of the fact that she`s the youngest Microsoft Certified Professional, she wants to be specific about her age at the time, in case another young programmer emerges someday to challenge what she calls her ``world record.``

Her mother and two brothers, ages 3 and 7, stayed home while she and her father came to the United States. It was the first trip to the country for both. After some sightseeing in Seattle, they`re scheduled to return home tomorrow from their Microsoft adventure.

Next time, Arfa says, she hopes to visit Disneyland, as well.

How does it feel?
Muzzling dissent and ostracizing those with different opinions is a traditional Paki instrument of control. Chowk management and staff have been doing this for some time now. They delete messages and threads from those who may be opponents of their favorite pets. Now that the so-called ``liberal and progressive`` Paki viewpoiint is being stifled, they cry foul. It all depends on whose ox is being gored. I have no sympathy for you hypocrites.
Salim

BTW the bureaucracy in the field of academics is stupendously clever....most of the careerist science bureaucrats utilize their intellects in obtaining the fattest of the research funds......they travel the most on public money....and control the best resources of the university................we all know these types................these scum bags destroy the love for pure intellectual endeavours and spend of their time counting their money while completely ignoring the real buding geniuses around them..................I can understand what HEC racket is all about..........................instead of the obnoxious hypocricy let us encourage the private institutions to work on the cutting edge technology so that the vieled pretense of encouraging ``pure research`` by these public institutions is not used to make money by these bureaucrat scientists............

I am quite curious about Mr Hoodbhoy and Dr Atta. Kindly explain it to me in a simple language without launching an harangue into the number of dissertations written, the number of PhDs earned, academies of which members etc.

For eg. Mr. Darwin told me that my grandfather was a monkey, Dr. fleming made penicillin from moldy bread, Einstein said E=Mc2, Raman gave us the Raman effect, his nephew told us that a star 1.44 times Sun becomes a black hole and Dr. Abdus Salaam combined weak
interaction and electromagnetic forces into one (whatever that means).

So what do the good doctors have to tell us.

Regards

This is where the real reform begins:

---

‘Hasba bill to isolate MMA’

By Raja Asghar

ISLAMABAD, July 9: The NWFP government’s plan to enact a new law to create religious watchdogs has rung alarm bells in the country, some critics seeing it as a move by the Muttahida Majlis-i-Amal (MMA) government to Talibanise the sensitive region.

While the MMA government was due to introduce the controversial Hasbah Bill in the provincial assembly on Monday, the move was denounced by almost all other major political parties and human rights groups in the country.

But the MMA, which says it only seeks to reform society in line with Islamic teachings, seemed set to get the bill passed by its comfortable majority in the 124-seat house.

Designed to create religious mohtasibs, or ombudsmen, at the provincial, district and tehsil levels who will be helped by a virtual religious police in what will be known as “amar bil maroof wa nahi anil munkar” (promotion of virtue and prevention of evil) department, the bill is likely to further strain the provincial government’s relations with the federal government, political sources said.

I have already read long discussions on this article in SAT. Let me admit that the level of intellectual discussion at chowk on this issue is much higher and all members need to be acknowledged.

To understand development in Pakistan, we have to first understand the Political Economy of Development in Pakistan. The central theme is Cash Grabbing and maximising of coffers. This is a processes repeated in all knee jerk development in Pakistan in different phases, be it the PIDE/IBA model of the 60s, GIK of the 80s or HEC of the 21st century.

In 1999 Dr Ata could not open his COMSAT campus in Karachi. Once he became the minister of Science and Technology (S&T), the comsat team became the S&T Team. Comsats spread rapidly and some people like Junaid Zaidi became all en all. In this time the major preoccupation was internet, braod band et al. Tragically this came crashing this year due to the sea cables and suddenly a need for Satellite link was felt. So much for the S&T.

Now the HEC is in overhaul.
Massive fundings are going to scholarships to institutions and individuals. Dr Hoodbhoy`s aricle says it all, to which I agree.

Two other retardants are the Pakistan Engineering Council and Pakistan Medical and Dental Council. It is only after these Civic Bodies recognise the degrees of students, can they become certified engineers and doctors. So many good private sector education institutions are in limbo because of these councils. And lets not forget the omnipresent Rector of NUST who will do anything to keep NUST and his Job afloat as long as there are no competiters.

So much for now.

Cheerios

I am happy that HEC is under observation by so many people and even a 5 million rupees projects (Dr Sadia`s) is not forgiven if it is not up to the standard (or not considered by some people to be so).

On the other hand, there are organizations in Pakistan where billions have been taken away and nobody knew where the money was going. I wish Pakistan Army, Railways, WAPDA, Telecom and other ministries also become like HEC where it becomes easier for the people to see inside what is happening and to express themselves freely.

Lastly a comment from Hoodbhoy`s articlen, Hoodbhoy Wrote: ``Pakistan lost its giants, Abdus Salam and Salimuzzaman Siddiqui, a long time ago. Its academic institutions may have to wait a long time for someone to lead them out of the growing darkness.``

And another hoodbhoy might be writing an article in 2030 mentioning that Pakistani lost ots giants like Abdus Salam, Saleemuzzamman and Atta ur Rehman a long ago.... Why not to respect the giants when they are alive and only praise them on their graves. Isn`t it an odd attitude?

Re: # 73

About spreading too thin, I will like to say that any HEC chief will have to spread him too thin because the scope of HEC activities is too large. And we need to remember is that Atta is not the only person in HEC, he is only the boss with a team to work with him. It is not him who implements all the things, it is his whole team with him who are managing these projects. We can criticize their methodology of executing the projects as a team. But when people start feeling that Atta is working alone on all the projects all the times and hence he should restrict to one single thing, I believe they are not looking at bigger picture where whole team works together. Or may be, they are only criticizing for the sake of criticism to fulfil their hidden agendas. :)

Thank you for speaking out the truth out loud, Dr. Hoodbhoy...it`s depressing that not even the HEC, an institution that supposedly commands great respect, functions in the interests of its poor citizens-not even one institution in the country sadly perfoms correctly...:-( Depressing state of affairs. Will anyone stand up to change the status quo?

The problem with the projects initiated at HEC and before that at MoST has been their excess. Dr Ata spreads himself too thin. Instead of focusing on 300 or 3000 projects, he should focus on 30 (or better still 3) and ensure that they become a resounding success.
It would be interesting to find out the number of ``new`` projects that have been initiated with a fanfare at HEC and how many of them have succeeded in achieving their objectives. How many of these publicity driven projects have fizzled out. We know what have happened to Model University initiative at HEC, we also know what happened to foreign faculty hiring program at MoST. We need to know the output and effectiveness of these
initiatives. We have heard about thousands and now tens of thousands of PhD that we would be churning out. Do we know who would absorb them and at what pay? We know of scores of projects being approved and millions being doled out. But, what do we know of output measurement. Some of the examples being quoted in this thread refer to the lack of ``attention to detail``. A necessary consequence of spreading oneself too thin.

re #59 cutehumna

I am sure this reply is a hard slap on the face of HEC critics and author of this article Pervaiz HoudBhoy

Mr. Hoodbhoy choose to criticize HEC but miserably failed to suggest corrective measures...this in simple terms called criticism for the sake of criticism

Despite the much touted claims of the HEC, the situation on the ground is zero...

Professor Hoodbhoy is on the dot. We have become so used to manipulation that we have laid waste an enormous talent vis a vis Theoretical Physics and Mathematics... Indeed we are so out of touch with modern advancements... how many of Pakistan`s best and brightest can explain or atleast hint to what the string theory is?

There are many Pakistanis, some Professor Hoodbhoy`s students, who are today involved in cutting edge research at the Fermilab ... this country produced Dr Abdus Salam for god`s sake... why can`t we produce many others like him.. Science is without religion, ideology or national boundaries... and this what we in Pakistan need to understand... and I have sneaking suspicion that despite the onerous ``Villayet-e-fakih`` the Iranian Mullahs have understood this...

HEC vs Dr. Hoodbhoy: The Controversy Continues

By Mamoona Amjed

ISLAMABAD, July 18: With reference to a rejoinder by Dr. Pervez Hoodbhoy captioned: “Pakistan Buying Costly, Obsolete Scientific Junk” it is stated that in his response to the rejoinder by the Executive Director, HEC, Dr. Pervez Hoodbhoy continues to distort, falsify and twist facts to fit his own viewpoint.

It is absolutely incorrect that HEC has spent or is spending Rs400 million on the purchase of a Van de Graaf Accelerator. HEC is not purchasing any equipment! HEC had allocated a total of Rs180 million to the National Center for Physics, (NCP) Quaid-e Azam University, Islamabad for the establishment of an Accelerator and an associated experimental Physics Laboratory. Out of this amount only Rs90 million were estimated to be spent on the purchase of the Accelerator and not Rs400 million as claimed by the writer.

The worthy writer finds it “shocking that no meeting of potential users of this large scale project was called, as is the practice in the rest of the world. And no one will have a clue of what to do when this machine finally arrives in Pakistan”.

It is to be noted that the top scientists of the country in the discipline of Physics were involved in the preparation and submission of the project to HEC. The project was prepared by Dr. Riaz ud Din, HI, a top notch physicist of the country and the Director of the National Center for Physics. Prof. Hoodbhoy claims that Prof. Riazuddin has acknowledged to him that he made a mistake. Even if his statement is true, how, is that the fault of HEC?

The project for the purchase of the Accelerator was reviewed by Dr. Samar Mubarakmand, NI, HI, SI, Chairman NESCOM and a top nuclear scientist and submitted to HEC by Dr. Ishfaq Ahmad, NI, HI, SI, our leading nuclear scientist, in his capacity as Chairman Board of Governors of National Center of Physics.

The actual specifications and type of the Accelerator to be purchased are still under consideration. A committee of scientists constituted for this purpose will take the final decision.

It is highly unfortunate that by making remarks about the project such as “stupid decision” and ridiculing the competence of those who are involved in establishing this facility, the worthy writer has insulted the above mentioned top scientists of the country as HEC is only sponsoring a project prepared, recommended and submitted by them.

Regarding the objections raised on the research proposal of Dr. Saadia Chishti, it is clarified that only Rs.400.000 and not Rs5.5 million have been released for the project. While processing the case HEC procedure of a rigorous peer review by top experts in the field, in line with international norms and practices, was strictly followed.

The project as well as the total amount to be allocated was approved on the recommendation of the Referees. Later on, HEC has had the progress report of her project evaluated by experts and the case is being processed for final decision in the light of evaluator’s comments. No further funds beyond Rs0.4 million were released after July, 2004.

The honorable writer has also falsely contended that the Allama Iqbal Open University (AIOU) has only a distance learning program and questioned the feasibility of carrying out chemistry research by Prof. Atta-ur-Rahman at such an institution.

He seems to ignore the reality on ground that AIOU has a first rate chemistry laboratory with a functional gas chromatograph, mass spectrometer system, Fourier transform infra-red spectrometer, ultra-violet spectrometer, high pressure liquid chromatographs and other sophisticated equipment installed and fully operational.

Students are carrying out M.Phil and Ph.D. level studies in AIOU with the help of these facilities. Prof. Atta-ur-Rahman is the leading scientist in the country who has written/edited 87 books published mainly in USA, Europe and Japan, many of which are used in courses in the West. He also has over 600 research papers, chapters in books and international patents to his credit which have won him numerous international prizes.

He had the rare distinction of becoming a Cambridge Don (1969-1973 ) and he is the only Pakistani scientist (besides late Prof. Abdus Salam) to have been honored by the University of Cambridge with award of an honorary degree of Doctor of Science (Sc.D.) by Cambridge University.

He is also the only scientist from the Muslim world to have been awarded the UNESCO Science Prize by the Director General of UNESCO in the 30 year old history for his eminent scientific contributions. Yet Prof. Hoodbhoy feels that being incharge of more than one institutions Dr. Atta-ur-Rahman should not carry out research.

Regarding the “Best Teachers” awards, the worthy writer now acknowledges that it was impossible for HEC to interview 250,000 students (note that this is what he had recommended earlier -- that the students opinion should have been sought!) -- this time he has now changed his stance and made a different set of allegations against HEC saying that the “Administrators simply nominated themselves as best teachers” (presumably he means departmental heads).

The reality is that nominations under the program were accepted by HEC only from Vice Chancellors and not directly from any “Administrators``.

The new objection raised by the worthy writer in “Physics Master Trainers Program” is not understandable. HEC has given the project to the Physics Department Quaid-e-Azam University and it is being run by the Head of the Department.

HEC welcomes positive criticism however, articles based on incorrect figures, spinning of facts and those creating public misperceptions about sincere efforts to develop S&T and higher education don’t serve any noble purpose.

Dr. Pervez Hoodbhoy responded to this latest rejoinder with these remarks on Saturday, July 16, 2005:

The HEC appears terribly confused. The official rejoinder of the HEC (17 July) to my article states that I have misrepresented facts and that only Rs 90 million shall be spent on a Tandem Accelerator. But this is not what the HEC chairman wrote on 25 June, 2005 (Dawn, Sci-Tech section, http://dawn.com/weekly/science/archive/050625/science3.htm).

According to the above article: “HEC has allocated Rs180 million to establish a 5MW Tandem Accelerator” and, to support its function, “HEC will spend Rs164 million to set up laboratories at the NCP, Quaid-i-Azam University”. Whoever on the HEC payroll is charged with defending the HEC has obviously not read what the boss has written.

I have no idea, or interest, of which individuals are behind this senseless project, one that is an astonishing waste of precious national resources. The author’s attempt to drag in other names is a mischievous move designed to create and inflame conflicts.

My previous statements are correct and can be easily verified: Professor Riazuddin, whose scientific credentials everyone seems to agree upon, has expressed his view saying that he cannot support this project on grounds of scientific merit. He has communicated this in writing to the HEC chairman.

In the matter of Dr. Saadia Khawar Chishty, the HEC web page shows for the project “Quranization Of Science Courses At The M.Sc level” the following entries: Total Amount – Rs5,581,000 and Current Year Award – Rs1,857,000. I do not see the figure of Rs 400,000 anywhere. Where is it?

It is my hope that the HEC will not make yet another attempt to change these figures or tamper with web pages that were created in 2003-2004. One such shallow trick has already been caught and exposed.

Best Teacher Awards: it is alleged by the HEC-commissioned author that I have “changed my stance” on the issue of getting students to evaluate a teacher’s performance in class. Rubbish! I think that without getting this crucial input, the whole idea of a “Best Teacher Award” is nonsensical. The problem seems to lie in the author’s limited comprehension of English. And, yes, I did mean that departmental heads had nominated themselves as the best teachers. It is perfectly normal to call departmental heads as “administrators” in the English language.

As for the other matters raised by the HEC’s second rejoinder: I think I have made my position clear in my initial and follow-up articles. There is no need to prolong a now tedious debate.

Ms. Mamoona Amjed is Director General Public Affairs, Higher Education Commission, Islamabad, Pakistan

A Strong Rejoinder to Dr Hoodbhoy by HEC

Dr. S. Sohail H. Naqvi

ISLAMABAD, July 15: Corruption. Dishonesty. Incompetence. Cronyism. These are only a few of the very serious charges laid by Dr. Pervez Hoodbhoy at the door of the Higher Education Commission. One would expect such charges to be fully substantiated, especially when made by a distinguished academic. Unfortunately, Professor Hoodbhoy does not seem to believe in research any more.

Let us start with Dr. Hoodbhoy’s dramatic announcement that HEC’s projects are riddled with “gross administrative incompetence.” As proof, Dr. Hoodbhoy refers to the “Best University Teacher” program. Please note that Dr. Hoodbhoy has no objection to the project itself, merely to the manner in which it is being implemented. But what is this highly objectionable course adopted by the HEC?

Admittedly, the HEC selects the “best” university teachers on the basis of nominations received
from university administrations. But those administrators are not supposed to make nominations based upon their personal whims. Instead, those nominations are required to be made on the basis of numerous factors, including student evaluations, a point which has been completely ignored by Dr. Hoodbhoy.

In any event, is the HEC’s approach really so unreasonable as to justify a charge of “gross incompetence?” Is Dr. Hoodbhoy really arguing that no factor other than student opinion can ever be important in determining who is a good teacher? Is he really saying that the opinion of one’s peers is irrelevant?

There are more than 250,000 university students in Pakistan. The HEC cannot interview those students itself. The HEC therefore has no option but to work with the existing administrations of universities to implement its programs. So, once the hype is stripped away, what we are left with is a program which Dr. Hoodbhoy admits is innovative and desirable, which the HEC is trying to implement in a self-evidently reasonable manner, and yet the program, according to Dr. Hoodbhoy, is conclusive proof of gross incompetence.

The real problem here is that Dr. Hoodbhoy sees the rest of Pakistan as a problem, not as an opportunity. The HEC, however, does not have the luxury of living in an ideal world. Instead, it has to make do with the human resources which exist today in Pakistan. Dr. Hoodbhoy is right when he says that the HEC sees existing faculty members as “part of the solution.” Unlike Dr. Hoodbhoy, the HEC feels no reason to be ashamed of that vision.

We come then to Dr. Hoodbhoy’s other example of “gross incompetence “– the Master Trainers in Physics program being run by Quaid e Azam University. Once again, we can safely assume that Dr. Hoodbhoy has no objection to the concept of the program itself since two years ago, when the project was first proposed, he demanded that he be placed in charge of it.

Once again, his only objection to the program is the manner in which the project is being implemented. But, the HEC is not in charge of the implementation of that project. That responsibility belongs entirely to the Physics department of Quaid e Azam University, of which Dr. Hoodbhoy is supposedly a very senior member.

Contrary to what Dr. Hoodbhoy says, HEC has not selected (let alone “hand-picked”) a single “master trainer.” Instead, each and every “master trainer” has been selected by the Physics Department at QAU. Dr. Hoodbhoy may be justified in his criticism of the master trainers but that is something for him, as a senior member of the QAU Physics Department, to raise first with that department.

Of course, Dr. Hoodbhoy chose to spend the last year on extraordinary leave so perhaps he was not in a position to offer his views. Dr. Hoodbhoy also alleges that the Master Trainers are being grossly overpaid. Perhaps Dr. Hoodbhoy has forgotten that he spent part of his extraordinary one-year leave giving lectures at Rs. 45,000 per hour. The Master Trainers are only paid a fraction of that amount; but then perhaps they lack Dr. Hoodbhoy’s facility with the truth.

It should be noted that the object of this article is not to unfairly malign Dr. Hoodbhoy. However, Dr. Hoodbhoy has not given a single name of a single Master Trainer whom he believes to be unqualified. Instead, he has simply slandered the entire lot of them without bothering to give any details whatsoever.

To the extent Dr. Hoodbhoy has specific and verifiable details regarding the Master Trainers he should first try to resolve his qualms at the departmental level and if that fails, then approach the HEC. If the HEC then refuses to listen to him, he can justifiably claim that the program is a disgrace. Till such time he bothers to substantiate his allegations though, it is only Dr. Hoodbhoy who can be considered a disgrace.

We come then to Dr. Hoodbhoy’s allegation that HEC is throwing “enormous sums ... at half-baked proposals.” Dr. Hoodbhoy’s first exhibit in this regard is the grant sanctioned by the HEC for the purchase of a Van de Graaf accelerator. Admittedly, a Van de Graaf accelerator’s use for “cutting-edge” research is limited but that was never its purpose. Instead, it was always intended to be used for teaching and general research for which purpose it was, and remains, a very useful machine. Cutting-edge particle accelerators cost billions of dollars which is why HEC has partnered with other developing nations to have access to the SESAME project in Jordan.

It should also be remembered that the proposal for the accelerator was submitted by the National Center for Physics, whose board is manned by the most eminent physicists in Pakistan. If Dr. Hoodbhoy is to be believed, those physicists are all either fools or criminals. The alternative does not leave Dr. Hoodbhoy in good company.

Similarly, Dr. Hoodbhoy pours much scorn on the grant to Dr. Saadia Chishti. But, Dr. Chishti holds a PhD in education from Cornell and has been a senior research fellow at both Oxford and the Divinity School at Harvard. Her project, like any other research grant proposal funded by HEC, was not examined by HEC itself.

Instead, as per standard procedures, the proposal was sent to be examined by the focal person in that subject (normally, the single most eminent and recognized scholar in that area in Pakistan) who then referred it to other competent scholars, who examined and reviewed the proposal. That internationally recognized method remains the standard method by which HEC reviews all grant proposals. Dr. Hoodbhoy asks “how true is this?”

The question which Dr. Hoodbhoy needs to be asked is, “where is your proof that this method is not being followed?” Dr. Hoodbhoy tries to gain much mileage from the fact that some of the research proposals he reviewed were dubious. But clearly, HEC is not responsible for the quality of research proposals sent to it, only for the quality of research proposals actually funded by it.

Assuming Dr. Hoodbhoy did indeed review a proposal containing a request for a $90,000 fridge, how is that proposal in any way represented of HEC’s performance?

Dr. Hoodbhoy drops dark hints about how his refusal to fund $90,000 refrigerators has resulted in his no longer reviewing research proposals. It is a routine matter for reviewers to reject unreasonable requests submitted by scientists, and Dr. Hoodbhoy`s rejection of such a request was a normal response. The item was thus never funded by the HEC. Dr. Hoodbhoy is here trying too hard for the halo of martyred sainthood. HEC has no control over who is selected by the focal person to review proposals, nor has it created any “black lists.”

If Dr. Hoodbhoy is not being selected to review proposals by the focal point in Physics, that would be the focal point’s decision, not that of HEC. It should further be noted that the focal point for Physics is Professor Dr. Riazuddin, one of 25 Distinguished National Professors in Pakistan, the Director of the National Center for Physics, and according to one internationally accepted method of ranking scholarly achievement (the “Impact Factor Assessment”), having an impact factor nearly eight times as that of Dr. Hoodbhoy.

The same shoddy approach can also be seen in Dr. Hoodbhoy’s discussion of the grant to the Allama Iqbal Open University. He notes that according to the project summary, “this work aims to correct the mistakes made in this area by a Nobel Prize winner in chemistry” and that “such grand notions of challenging Nobel Prize winners are highly suspect.”

What the abstract of the proposal actually states is that, “In our earlier investigations . . . we had found the earlier work of the Nobel Laureate Sir Ropert Robinson and two of his eminent colleagues Sir W. H. Perkins and R.H.F. Manske . . . to be incorrect.” The project abstract clearly states that the initial work was done in 1972 by Dr. Atta-ur-Rahman, that the resultant research did in fact show the work of the Nobel Laureate in Chemistry to have been incorrect, and that the current work is only an extension of that research.

In fact, the 1972 article by Dr. Atta-ur-Rahman was one of the works specifically cited by the United Nations when it awarded him the UNESCO Science Prize. Dr. Atta-ur-Rahman remains, till date, the only Muslim scientist to have received this honor. It is tempting to believe that that Dr. Hoodbhoy simply misread the project abstract. Unfortunately, it appears more likely that he has deliberately misrepresented its contents.

Dr. Hoodbhoy’s allegations with respect to HEC’s efforts to increase the number of PhDs in Pakistan is one of the few instances in his article where he actually substantiates his allegations with concrete facts. Unfortunately, those facts are all wrong.

Dr. Hoodbhoy specifically alleges that in the Physics department of QAU, as many as 15 PhD students are registered with one supervisor while in the Biology Department at QAU, there are as many as 40 students with one supervisor. The Quaid-e-Azam University has confirmed that these allegations are incorrect. It should first be noted that as per HEC rules, the maximum number of PhD fellowship holders allowed to be registered with any one supervisor is eight.

Furthermore, so far as the Biology department at QAU is concerned, HEC has not approved even a total of 40 PhD fellowships, let alone 40 for one supervisor. Instead, HEC has only approved a total of 20 PhD fellowships at the QAU biology department, which are being supervised by 10 HEC approved supervisors. Similarly, so far as the QAU physics department is concerned, HEC has only approved a total of 33 fellowships which are in turn being supervised by 11 professors. It should also be noted that none of those 33 students are enrolled with Dr. Hoodbhoy. In fact, Dr. Hoodbhoy has not published any work with a Pakistani student for almost a decade now.

It is unfortunate that the HEC’s efforts continue to be greeted with scorn and suspicion. Dr. Hoodbhoy, like many other education reformers in Pakistan, has called for more funding of the sciences on numerous occasions. Now that funding is being provided, it is necessary for Dr. Hoodbhoy to remove the blinkers of the past and give the HEC a fair hearing. For example, Dr. Hoodbhoy says that the PhDs which will be produced locally as a result of the HEC’s efforts will be worthless.

What Dr. Hoodbhoy fails to mention is that the HEC has stipulated that it will not recognize any local PhD unless the thesis has been approved by at least two eminent academics from industrially advanced countries, and the work has been published in an international journal. In fact, the quality control system that has been introduced includes the introduction of an international subject GRE before a student is allowed to be enrolled into the Ph.D. program and extensive course work both at M. Phil. and PhD levels. Dr. Hoodbhoy is well aware of these steps but has conveniently ignored these, and many other measures, taken by the HEC to raise the quality of higher education in Pakistan.

What is most unfortunate is that Prof. Hoodbhoy has ignored the largest programs of the Commission. These include programs relating to sending students on scholarships to foreign universities, post-doctoral training programs, and the foreign faculty hiring program under which hundreds of eminent expatriate and foreign scientists have joined Pakistani universities.

These are the programs that have begun to change the landscape of our universities, uplifting them from their current mediocre status. Professor Hoodbhoy claims that the GRE-type administered by HEC is worthless. But if that is the case, why are professors from Austria, Germany, France and other countries clamoring for these students? Last week alone, 92 students left for France to do post-graduate studies. Till date, foreign supervisors have expressed complete satisfaction with the quality of the students sent to them.

The Higher Education Commission is aiming to be one of the first public sector institutions to implement a fully computerized financial management system in accordance with the New Accounting Model (NAM) adopted by Project for Improvement of Financial Reporting and Auditing (PIFRA).

Already, almost all the financial record of the HEC for the previous financial year has been entered into the computer, and record of every transaction is available at fingertip. The HEC has also implemented a wide-ranging project monitoring system under which every project in every university has been physically visited, and its performance assessed against standard measures.

These reports are subsequently sent to the Finance Division, and the Planning Division. HEC also maintains the most widely accessed web site of any government department in Pakistan in which every single program is listed in detail along with results of all examinations and details regarding the award of research grants. For the record, HEC would welcome any financial or performance audit by any agency. We have nothing to hide.

It must also be realized that the entire amount of Government funds available to nearly sixty public sector universities in Pakistan do not match the funds available to a single reasonable size university in Malaysia. Advanced countries spend an average of about Rs. 6 million per student per year while Pakistan only spends Rs. 35,000 per student per year. Today, out of an eligible pool of more than 20 million people in Pakistan between the ages of 18 – 23, only about 250,000 students are physically studying at universities and degree granting institutions. This is one of the lowest percentages in the world. Is it not time that Pakistan improved this percentage?

Today, as a consequence of the HEC’s efforts and the enhanced funds provided by the government, every public sector university in Pakistan has computers, an internal computer network, high speed connectivity to the Internet, access to more than 15,000 journals and access to state-of-the-art instrumentation. Enrolment in our universities is rising at an excellent rate, four-year undergraduate programs are being introduced from Malakand to Khairpur, faculty members are writing research proposals, collaborating with leading foreign universities, going on sabbaticals and post-doctoral fellowships, and presenting their research work to the world.

Some 500 students have been sent abroad for PhD studies, Australia has offered 500 fully paid scholarships to Pakistan and over a billion rupees scholarship program has been initiated for poor and deserving students to study in private and public institutions which were previously beyond their financial means.

Over the last two years, there has been a 44 per cent increase in the number of papers by Pakistani academics appearing in internationally reputed scientific journals. For the first time, Pakistan is making its presence felt in the international academic world. Is this not progress?

To conclude then, Dr. Hoodbhoy’s diatribe against the HEC is completely unfair and unjustified. The HEC is doing its best to reform and serve higher education in Pakistan with both honesty and integrity. Unfortunately, that statement cannot be made with respect to Dr. Hoodbhoy’s efforts.

The writer is Executive Director, Higher Education Commission of Pakistan and this rejoinder has been issued in response to Dr. Pervez Hoodbhoy`s article published on July 9, 2005

re:59 ``cutehumna`` (sic),
i am glad to know that ``HEC`` is neither one of your parents` name, but you are a case study of what is wrong with our education system, and please dont take this personally at all. you are somone who is probably at university yet you find it quite difficult to express yourself in the english language. my emphasis on english is because at the university level most of your assignments, research material, and instruction is in the english language. here lies the failure of the HEC, which is to fund PHD`s for people who cannot grasp the course work they are engaging in properly which in turn leads to substandard research and ``work``. as an employer I can safely say that 80% of the masters` level job applicants that i have seen are not even at par with someone who has passed their A-Level exams. Now that in my mind is a problem.

re: 67 ``freesoul``. you are absolutely correct. this is not a popularity contest; it`s about recognizing a problem and then fixing it. as a nation, we pakistanis, go on the defensive anytime anything other than our views are aired. what we should be doing is listening and looking within as to how we can fix our own problems.

Re: # 64

Charlie and rv3

Lets not make this artcile a popularity contest b/w Hoobhoy and Atta. We r not comparing the scientific research or the impact factor of these two gentleman.

Do we all agree, a great PhD might not be a good administrator?

If yes, then everyone has the right to be skeptical of HEC projected and earned achievements.

Re: # 63

cutehumna,

The slogan of ``national hero`` is a dead horse in pakistan. One national hero was gang-raped on TV by no other than the president, who became the witness, prosecution and the judge. I think this Atta sahab will shudder at yours labeling him as nationa hero.

Lets keep human beings as human beings. Lets be very skeptical of ppl in power. Lets watch how the national money is being spent by them.

Re: # 64 I must say, I have to agree with Charlie on his previous reply to you....These facts and figures would never make any sense to a person who is completely oblivious to the costoms and tricks in research work...
There is on hell of a difference between writing a paper and a book!...and pls pls pls, jerk your notion of `writing` a paper as `writing` in the literal sense away...
....and also take a closer look at the two degree, do you find any difference? even an Honorary PhD is different from a regular PhD...Abdus Salam had 20+ of these..
for heavens sake!

A book, a dissertation, or a paper every every 21.3 days???

Sorry Mr. Charlie, I never thought that panwala arithmatic done on the figures quoted from your post would make you so angry. As mentioned in my post, I took the figures from a post, in fact your post [Ref: #36 by Charlie on July 11, 2005 4:48am PT] in which you stated the year in which Dr. Ata did his PhD was 1987: I quote: “ Prof. Atta-ur-Rahman has also been awarded the prestigious degree of Doctor of Science (Sc.D.) by the University of Cambridge in 1987”

Now that you have mentioned in #61 by Charlie on July 14, 2005 3:12am PT
Re: # 60 that “He did his PhD in 1968 from cambridge. 37 years ago”.
Let’s rework the panwala mathematics again.
Don’t be angry; let’s plug in the figures for 37 years.
37 years = 444 months
Author of Books = 63
Research Papers = 479
Phd Dissertations = 56
Editor of Studies in Natural Chemistry: Volumes= 27
Total publications = 625 [Figures taken from Charlie’s post # 36]
Number of publications per month = 625/444= 1.4
Number of days for one publication = 30/1.4 = 21.3 days.

Ahm, it seems your are not getting my point. The new result is not substantially different. He manages to generate a new book, a new paper, and supervises a dissertation every 21.3 days!!!!
Am I missing some thing? Would you like to revise some of your other figures in your post #36?

By the time false objections of Hood Bhoy are revealing. Another example is 14th July statment of ``freesoul``. This is true that hood bhoy has only observed the HEC policies superfacially. He is not a practical person. But, he must think several times to whom he is criticizing. Prof. Atta-ur-Rahman is our national hero and his services are internationally recognized. But this un-lucky nation is thinking wrong about him. That`s pity!!!!!!!!
This is very hard time for our muslims Umha. We must go together and only unity will take us to the way of progress and development. Plz. try to understand this...otherwise every thing will be destroy.

I finally got a response from Dr. Saadi Chisti on her Quranisation project. Here it is:

``Let me tell you that the amount 50 lacs is the estimate of HEC for a project of three years duration. You better verify this fact from HEC and also whether Dr Chishti accepted the money or refused to accept the amount. Also verify how much she has contributed personally to this project also if she accepeted a single paisa for herself. Kindly let us know your verified facts for otherwise fear Allah`s punishment if you beleive in him.

A believer in Allah and Al-Qur`aan is the message of Allah.

Also share this email with your friend hoodbhoy whoi has said goodbye to Allah and Al-Qur`aan. ``


Is this really true, that Hoodbhoy has said goodbye to Allah? :)