Reforms! What Reforms?

Great article. I couldn`t agree more with your sentiments. It`s no wonder that many of the young `brains` in our country are going abroad to places like America, Canada, Europe and even East Asia (e.g. Singapore) for a higher education which has value and potential. Many of them won`t return since intellectual integrity and creativity aren`t fostered in our country to the extent they are in other places.

// fahd

I agree with all the statements that he said and want to add that what will happen when we will be getting this much ``PhD`` every year. What they all be doing?
In computers a term GIGO is used means ``Garbege In Gargabe Out``. I think something like this is happening. A ``supervisor`` like this will produce ``future supervisors`` all have the same problems.
Moreover Pakistan does not have faculty in fields like Computer Science. So PhD in such fields from a local university is a complete waste of time and money.

Just a few days back, almost 100 PhD Students arrived here in France. They are all sponsored by HEC for a duration of four years on 1200 dollars/month.

That means: 1200 x 12x 4 = 57600 dollars per person + Charges for admission (consultants dealing with HEC for that) and lab facilities etc.

Next year, number of PhD scholarships are planned to be more than 150. All of these people have filled a bond that they will return to Pakistan and serve there for five years atleast. (Many of them are faculty members from Pakistani Universities).

In other countries also, HEC is managing similar programs.

Now Imagining that, 50 % of these people will return back after their studies. Morally, 100 % should return as a poor governmet is spending so much on them. And 50 % of returning PhDs learn something positive from the work going on in western world, I am optimist enough to see some positive changes in our universities in near future.

Dr Hoodbhoy has really described a bad situation in Pakistani universities. He is right to an extent. But reading through his article, one can easily judge that he is being an idealist. While being an idealist is a good thing, it is certainly not good to be a pessimistic person after realizing that things are not ideal. (I remember, he visited India sometime back, wrote an article over some negative aspects of Indian universities and Indians on the forum were angry how he dared to object the system there.)

In 98, when I entered the university, I never listened of MoST and HEC. None of my seniors knew about the scholarships for higher studies. Now, since Dr Atta`s times, it is very easy to arrange money for higher studies. I accept that so many Toms, Dicks and Harrys are getting chances for higher studies but I also know that there are many intelligent people also getting benefit of this money. Certainly, situation is much better than it was before 1999. Although, I accept that this money can be used more intellligently.

And I am shocked to see that South Asia Tribune is using Dr Sahib`s articles to prove that government is being corrupt in Education sector. As a matter of fact, HEC is not corrupt. It is less efficient (according to Dr Sahib`s Standards). But it is more efficient than any other government organization in Pakistan.

Good analysis.

there are a few things I wuld like to add though:

entrance tests for IIT`s known as Joint Entrance Exams(JEE) are really competitive and filter out students who do not have the capacity and understanding to do well further. But it is still at an undergraduate level. Many of them go abroad for higher education. Mostly students from other institutions go to IIT`s for advanced degress and eventually go abroad too.
Hence even though B.S. level education is good, M.S., Ph.D. level needs improvement.

Regarding GRE tests, having subject wise would be better. Many of the science disciplines admit students with a general test, which doesn`t relate tot he students knowledge about the specific subject but only Analytical, verbal and Quantitative skills. And there is no correlation b/t GRE scores (general) and a persons knowledge about the subject.

Excellent article, a real eye-openner.
Agreed, many so-called reforms are being introduced by the HEC, but the real dilemma remains, that it `s sheer emphasis is on quantity rather than quality. As Dr Hoodbhoy correctly pointed out, the Rs 5000 allowance being offered to the supervisors for every PhD student, only impells them into taking as many students into their supervision as they can, and thats only in balck and white. These supervisors at the same time, have to teach under-graduate classes (even if they bother to do that aptly), and that leaves them little or no time to focus on a couple of students, let alone dozens of them. The result is obvious, incompetent students, who are only intersted in the Rs 5,6, or 7 thousand stipend they get from the HEC, and have no real enthusiasm to gain knowledge. And those who do retain that, lose it in the long run owing to the lack of supervision and academic competition and competence.
The imbalance in the allocation of money to different sectors, is also rampant. HEc`s major focus for the last few years has been IT. So much so that there was such a huge lot of IT students in the very irst year of the program, that more than 80% of the graduates belonging to the very second lot remained un employed, so ultimately had to switch to some other descipline.
On the other hand, a barely noticeable attention is being payed to `promotion` of pure scinces, promotion as in advanced faculty, instead of advanced technology. The accelerators being installed or being planned in the coming years are useless if their are no technicians to work at them, and no proper physicists to extract any uselfull data from them. In this age of LHC, probing into the energy range of 14 TeV, a Van de graff accelerator of mere 5MeV, is pointless and an absolute wastage of money. Instead of giving away so many `indigeneous scholarships` in the field of IIt, resulting in the saturation of students yeilding degrees int hsi category, the emphasis should be on proper and proportionate allocation of money and advancement of reseach in pure sciences, which are at the verge of extinction in Pakistan.
The conditions are severely deplorable in the Pakistan education system, from the base to the top, no doubt.

Netizen #4: There is something I have always wanted to find out. How are Indian universities able to keep their teaching faculty........?

I don`t know much about other depts in Pakistani universities, but I do know something about CS. And in CS, the problem in Pakistan is lack of faculty. The students are there, the building is there, the equipment is generally there, even the good jobs are there. But there is no faculty..........

The only institutions that have been able to keep faculty are in the military, due to strict laws and bonds. And universities like LUMS, which pay a phenomenally high salary to the faculty.

GIK was one of the fastest rising Engineering colleges in Asia. Within a few years of its formation, it was ranked 9th in Asia, ahead of some of the IITs. However, it has moved down now, because it started losing faculty. I as looking at the faculty salary of GIK and IIT, at the time when a lot of GIK professors started leaving, and it turns out they were getting paid more than IIT professors. And they were, at that time, in a young institution, which was ranked so high in Asia. Yet they still left, to the point that the GIK students even had a strike, complaining about the faculty leaving...........

Re: #3 Charlie

By looking at
http://chowk.com/show_interactor_page.cgi?membername=Charlie

it seems quite fair to infer ur bias towards HEC as a result of ur free ticket to the farangi land.

Anyway, enjoy ur stay !

Re: # 4

I never had a lot of exposure in higher learning in india. i left the country after B.S. In u.s. where the prof has to work hard/smart and receive grants to get tenure, in india i don`t think there is any tenure system. Once hired you stay in the college. Prof in my colleges got a decent salary, no job pressure, no research, just teaching and lab even though some of them had Ph.D`S with 10-15 yrs of teaching exp. In premier institutes like the iit, iim, iisc, may be the prestige of being a prof. also plays some role, with some research activity going on. the iits are autonomus and fought severly to maintian it. may be that it gives more control over policies and doesn`t frustate the profs/administrators.
Do you see paucity of profs in some institute or is it prevalent throughout the country? are these people going to the private sector or leaving the country? I think just having good salary is not the only motivating factor to keep a good prof. Some value the surroundng atmosphere like individual thinking, encouragement in research, career prospects. It could be a sum of all these.

Re: # 7

Well! I have the scholarship of government of France. I didn`t get a single penny of HEC. All I said was what I saw from the students coming abroad in recent years. And no doubt, HEC is working well.

While people like prof Hoodbhoy criicise the system very easily, they always fail to propose an alternative solution implementable practically. Being idealistic is fine, spreading pessimism is not.

Romair
its a pure numbers game. the number of graduates is high so number who want to hang around is high and they produce high number of students. this machine was primed once and its in motion.

getting a prof job in iits etc is very hard.. you need a good degree, not from that IIT, and post doc experience. getting eq. of tenure is also hard..incl a lot of peer pressure. iit professors have nice lifestyle (a nice house, campus facilities) and make good money with conmsulting and summer work with MNCs and/or foreign univs/lab (e.g. IBM s Watson Lab).

Third tier engg colleges faculty in india plain sucks. those who cannot find a real job, teach in these colleges.. most students join private classes to understand thermodynamics and maxwells equations.

IT is the easy one.. in india, except computer science, we think IT needs little education ;-)
many hydrabadis i know personally have ``faked`` it into IT and learned on the job...e.g. QA, or scripts etc.

HEC pays to study aborad? this sucks..indian govt never did it ... even to study in russia..i was always jelous of turkish grad students and harare foundation lebanese who had fat wallets while the indians were always PIGS (poor indian grad student).

Re: # 6
Romair:

Aah IITs... In my days, like me, there were at least 30 to 40 students in my batch EE and Mech Eng. out 180 students who had gotten into IITs but decided to join DCE (Delhi College of Engineering) instead. Something that would never happen today. Vinod Dham, of Intel/Pentium fame, was one year junior to me at DCE to give a perspective of the class of DCE. In 1965, IITs were still not the brand it is now. Although it has been made a brand by graduating classes of my generation. I have life long friendship with several of IIT graduates of my generation who have indeed made it in their fields. We often discuss key success factors of IITs. All agree that the creme-de-la-creme of student body due to strict meritocracy at IIT attracts and selects is unsurpassed and uncorrptible. It is possible at Oxford, Cambridge, Harvard and Yale to be from connected family, legacy family etc. to get admitted. But at IITs admission is based on pure and simple meritocracy. This student body is very bright, which can probably be taught by a Havaldar of Indian Army and still shine. It is the success of IIT student body that now attracts the faculty and make them stick there. Especially those Professors who can take intellectual challenge and brainiac lashings from the student / nerds in the class, reward for them is the prestige of teaching at IITs.

Anil

Netizen/Anil/jang # thanks for the info..........

``Do you see paucity of profs in some institute or is it prevalent throughout the country? are these people going to the private sector or leaving the country? ``

I don`t know about the sectors. I think medicine is very well staffed. A lot of good doctors want to teach at the top medical colleges. The engineering side seems shaky. Specifically CS. In CS, everyone goes abroad. This has become furthur shaky now that a lot of students have switched to telecom, due to the massive growth in this sector in Pakistan. Pakistan is going through a huge telecom revolution. But it has not had a software revolution........

Somehow or the other Pakistan will have to attract and keep CS professors. You would be surprised to hear the salaries of LUMS professors. Most other universities cannot pay nearly, as much.

The best solution would be to bring in professors from India............I cannot really think of any other solution. Or try to mass import all Pakistani Ph.Ds who are abroad, somehow........

Professor Hoodbhoy your artical was an eyeopener. My dad wants me to do my grad school in mathematics in Pakistan. I will make him read your artical. I must share with you that your university disqualifies me for the masters program since I have a four year degree, and they only require a two year degree. This is funny. I was educated by mathematicians from all over the world at Arizona State University.

Even in USA a lot of bogus Phd.s are produced. Specially in computer science and engineering. I have seen many masters thesis being prepared. Basically you download them from the internet. Then you use powerpoint. Thats all. Pakistani, Indian, and chinese are more prone to do such things because they are using education as a flying carpet for social mobility. They pursue the grand theme and dream of the Indian subcontinent, ``Rajoo ban giya gentleman``.

Once upon a time universities were places of reverence and endeavor. Every reasonable scientist was half philosopher. Even high school students read literary unabridged works in two or three languages. The more academically inclined would read Homer.

Now a seventh grader start preparing for enterance exams. Someone wants to get in IIT, someone has to get in GIK, and others to Harvard or Oxford. Students take up hobbies since they look good in the admission application.

We are producing Seabiscuits not academics.

#14 by Mathematiker on July 8, 2005 9:49pm PT

I will make him read your artical

HAHA.Yo, Arizona State U, check out his by one of your alums!!.Indian institutions of higher learning are recognized because of their lofty academic standards.Not as this `learned` gentleman alludes.The fact that our IIT`s, IIM`s and research institutes our funded by our babus(public exchequer) is a testament to India.Dont make `funny` comments about other countries , and then feel slighted when others respond.Put your own house in order first.

Unlike most readers of Chowk who have responded to Professor Hoodbhoy with pessimism and lack of hope, let me say that I am invigorated by his article. He has identified problems, and he has pointed to solutions. I do not believe that he claims his solutions are the best or that they will necessarily work. But he has proposed them nevertheless. This is a good starting point.

As a South Asian, I am particularly attracted to his idea of a mingling or a reciprocal movement of teachers and students across South Asian borders. What a wonderful idea! I think that the most important outcome of such exchanges will be the improvement of relations and the possibility of lasting peace. Of course, we will also exchange ideas, teach, and learn from one another. But that is long term, pie-in-the-sky, and dreaming.

So, onto the core of his article. Some readers point out that Professor Hoodbhoy is needlessly criticizing the idea of more funds and more students funded by the HEC. After all, the arguement goes, some good will come out of it even if most of the recipients are not deserving scholars. This is a terrible position to take. Let me state why. I am currently a faculty member in a University in the United States. When I read what Professor Hoodbhoy has written, you can be sure of one thing: I will not be inclined to admit or take in my laboratory a student from Pakistan (unless s/he is recommended by Professor Hoodbhoy).

I am afraid that is the way it is. For me, his word is enough. As an Indian, let me point out that there is no academic I know of in India who I respect more than Professor Hoodbhoy. In that sense, I believe India is going through a crisis about as bad as Pakistan. I have, with no exceptions, declined to hire Indian students who applied to my research program, simply because I believe they were poorly prepared and lacked english skills (the same problems identified by Professor Hoodbhoy with some students at QAU). Perhaps there are good students going elsewhere, but I am certainly not seeing them at my University. And never mind the IITs. I am from one of them, and I know what I am saying. Other than in commerce and business and finance, very few IIT graduates have made fundamental contributions to Engineering (Narendra Karmarkar being the only exception perhaps). So, for an institution that has produced nearly 100,000 graduates in the last fifty years or so, we have very little to show for the attention devoted to us.

In teaching and research, education is secondary to scholarship. Time and again people forget this. An education teaches people to read and write, and gives them a degree, and teaches them a trade at best. Nothing wrong with that, but it is not enough to bootstrap a society into producing more teachers and academics. Graduating Ph.Ds at a frantic pace is not a substitute for real scholarship. Scholarship is about thinking and analyzing. Scholarship is about making people think, and about creating thinkers. Professor Hoodbhoy is asking for scholars, and he is demanding scholarship. His demand is reasonable. Let us, Indians and Pakistanis alike, listen to the man. Do!

Panini

Re: # 16

Where do you teach?.At Grambling state U??.Phony indian crap.

Re: # 16 Great post. We desperatley need exchange of knowledge across the borders.
best

Re: # 3 Charlie, OK, send more abroad, import as much uptodate knowledge as you can, that`s the order of the day in most developing countries... I am not against that, but I am sure, if you are impartial, you can count on fingers the number of students amongst these 150 who really deserved that. Majority of such students are there coz of HEC`s bias and favour towards them or their supervisors, or their institute. Within the last single year, I have seen dozen students arriving in Europe for PhDs in chemistry, on one of the scholarship programs of the HEC, most of them are from HEJ....and I think you can figure out well why they have to be in Chemistry or from HEJ!
And it`s not about academic excellence, we all know, at least we two after 14-16 years of education there, how the system works in Pakistani borads of education and Universities, rather it`s more a matter of intelligence, competence and intellectual approach...which is not even considered in any of the local `selection procedures`. Also, do you think a Masters degree holder from PU or QAU can compete with a graduate from a European country, in terms of knowledge?...not even by 10%! Reforms need to brought about at the lower level first...then we can perceive of any advancement at the higher level.

re: # 14

Gee, now you are making me feel like a fool. Some of us spent a few years actually writing what were said to be quite original works. :(

And from ASU to Pakistan/India for grad work? Any ASU math alum may want to explain this decision.

This is general comment.
PhD is fraud as most PhDs of India by their own data is dismil. Most are PhDs in social science or politics like caste, religion, islamic studies and hindu religion, journalism, dance, sait literature. Also its better to have proper bachelors degree studied than graduate. Atleast they should not be bankrolled by our pakistani govt monies/ as all graduate go to foreign countries. Its like pouring water in bucket which has hole. As only is done so to exist Lahore/karachi to go tograduate study and go to london and newyork.
I support all who want to go as its natural to seek good opportunities , being born in one country does not mean one should be loyal as romantic utopia.

How much IIT professors make per month? What other additional benefits they get ?
What average IIT Bsc engg makes when he starts his job?
Figures can tell the real situation? Any indian has information

Re: # 17 Why do i smell something burning? :P

Re: # 19

Shobig! I fear that we have serious differences of opinion here. Let`s start one by one.

Shobg Said: I am not against that, but I am sure, if you are impartial, you can count on fingers the number of students amongst these 150 who really deserved that.

Reply: Trying to be fully impartial, I tell you that there are so many good studens among HEC scholarship holders. Looking at the performance o last year HEC scholars, I can tell you many of them topped their universities. I am always happy to see performance of those guys. Some of them are coming from even very lowly ranked universities in Pakistan. In some courses having less amoun of mahematics, they don`t feel any difficulty adjusting themselves. In the mathematics based courses, they face difficult times but with 3/4 months, they come on the right track. One of my batch mate who topped at an MS program in Imperial College, his proessor told him that Souh Asians are very bad at mathematics. and he gave an example of an IIT topper how he struggled for good grades in mathematics based subjects.

HEC Doesn`t have any magical stick with which can they put more talent in Pakisanis. For faculty training programs, they select faculty members. In open schemes, there is a nationwide competiton. Who wins, ges the scholarship. Out of the studens coming on HEC scholarship, most of hem belong to middle class/lower middle class proving that HEC programs are quie fair. Now i there is any person who considers himself more talented, he should come up and compete with others.

HEC is not the only scholarship left in the country. If you are good enough, you have good grades, goid GRE scors, ask some reputed professor for good recomendation. Voila! You get admission in any good university in the world. Nobody can stop the real talent from being recognised. Losers alwaysz complain, talk of unfair play.

Shobig Said : Majority of such students are there coz of HEC`s bias and favour towards them or their supervisors, or their institute.

Reply : Nops. Open tests are held for HEC schlarship open scheme. SUPARCO, NDC, KRL etc send their employees on their own expenses. If HEJ has more students studying abroad, it might be because of good standard o the institutre. Atta Ur Rehman is one of the best scientists in chemistry in the world. Being editor of almost dozen internaional journals, publishing 600 papers, getting so many awrads for his scientific contributions, the guys recommendations work. Let`s suppose i he recommends top 5 students from HEJ, do you think there are any chances for those students being rejected.


Shobig Said: we all know, at least we two after 14-16 years of education there, how the system works in Pakistani borads of education and Universities, rather it`s more a matter of intelligence, competence and intellectual approach...which is not even considered in any of the local `selection procedures`. Also, do you think a Masters degree holder from PU or QAU can compete with a graduate from a European country, in terms of knowledge?...not even by 10%! Reforms need to brought about at the lower level first...then we can perceive of any advancement at the higher level.

Reply: Graduate programs in our universities are weak because best of the students from undergrduate courses opt for studies abroad. In an MS program at UET, I saw so many students being enrolled. Before the start of second semester, session was reduced to half students because rest of them found admissions in western universities and quit MS program in Pakistan. Everybody knows Brand Names work well in Pakistan. A very good graduate student from Pakistani universiy and a bad graduate from western university, people prefer bad graduate from farangi world because of the brand name. In this situation, who is silly enough to take admission in a grad program in Pakistan.

In my honest opinion, excellent MS level program can be managed in Pakistan. In so many fields, we don`t need a lot of money for sudies and research. Many fields in the research need good brains, and a cheap computer, access to research material o research journals/socities, facility to print as many articles as one wants, a pencil and few pages, a few simulation softwares (and industry is always willing to give their tools to researchers at very cheap prices if assured that serious research work is being done). In Pakistan, it is not really difficult to have all these. Only thing that the grad students need more is the assurance that if they are technically good, their abilities will be recognized properly. but it will not hapen easily. Pakistanis have some complexes with them. Some of them deliberately want to keep the status quo working, others are impressed with Mc Donald universitiues. Nobody will be willing to accept that students from a local university can study well.

I am soirry, I am toitally offtopic. I have a lot to say about the original topic being discussed. I will write on it laters.

Re: # 24

Oh So many typos. ``T`` key of my keyboard is not working well plus I didn`t read once again to press ``Submit``. I hope everything will be understandable.

Re: # 22....ahmedmadani

This year Mc Kinsey has taken an IITM student on Rs 7.5 lakh remuneration. Similarly top IT companies like Infosys, Wipro, Samsung, Oracle have taken good numbers this year with average salary ranging between Rs 3.5 to Rs 4 lakh.``(350,000.00/400,000.00)


http://www.dqindia.com/content/industrymarket/schools/2004/104052507.asp

http://www.cse.iitk.ac.in/users/jalote/GenArticles/StudentFacultyRatio.html

http://ibef.org/artdisplay.aspx?cat_id=433&art_id=6278

I`m just a graduate of the Louisiana state univ. system.Hopefully, an IIT grad( i doubt it) who trolls this site will respond.You can google a lot of info too.

Re: # 16

Yes, Idea of exchanging knowledge is good. But looking at the low standards of research in both countries, I doubt it is going to benefit both of us in terms of research output. It will help us coming nearer to each other, understanding each other and having peace. But it doesn`t seem to result in very good research. I was just looking at some data about standard of research in various countries. With respect to research paper`s ouput India and China both make ino top 20 but when it comes to citations/paper (research standards); it is 2.5/paper and 3.0/paper respectively as compared to about 11 for US and 9 or 10 for european countries. That means, there is a lot of garbage coming out of socalled developing countries in the name of research. I rather support the idea of increasing links with international universities and multinationals by sending the messages that research in our countries is cheaper.


Panini Said: So, onto the core of his article. Some readers point out that Professor Hoodbhoy is needlessly criticizing the idea of more funds and more students funded by the HEC. After all, the arguement goes, some good will come out of it even if most of the recipients are not deserving scholars. This is a terrible position to take. Let me state why. I am currently a faculty member in a University in the United States. When I read what Professor Hoodbhoy has written, you can be sure of one thing: I will not be inclined to admit or take in my laboratory a student from Pakistan (unless s/he is recommended by Professor Hoodbhoy).

Agreed to an extent. But look, Dr Hoodbhoy trying to correct the system is sending wrong signals to outside world. With his article, he is unknowingly creating stereotyped image of Paistani students. Most of HEC scholar coming abroad are Engineering Graduates. Dr Sahib is a physics professor. How he is generalizing the situation so easily. If situation is bad in Pakistan in theoratical physics, it doesn`t mean it is bad in all other fields. One thing is very clear, Top of the students either join medecine or engineering in Pakistan. Physics doesn`t earn them enough money and so the ones who don`t get admissions in any of the engineering university go to the physics departments. In such a situation, doctor sahib is dealing with weaker lot of students and then brutally generalizing the situation.

This article sort of makes you laugh. I know Dr. Ata`s got a task on his hands. But it seems the basics are out of his reach and have not been set right yet.

Metrics, standards, gauges...you have to set those right before pushing through all this money. That would be a better way.

Hoodbhoy

You are an idealist. Let us say 50% is being eaten up by education wallas. Every one else is eating as well. Even if the remaining 50% gets spent, that is a big improvement from the past.

But the most scary aspect is:
(This is a research project worth an astonishing rupees 5,581,000 (Rs 5.6 million) and is titled as ``Quranization of Science Courses At The M.Sc Level``)

Are we now officially into Talibanization? It is 21st Century. Leave the holy scripture sacred and for spiritual needs only; and not drag it into Laboritories for political purposes. It was never intended to be a book of science.

nhk

Re: # 20

It is the general trend in modern academics that is disturbing. Many individuals do produce original work. But you must agree that the vast majority of people in sub-continent do not give scientific work the respect that it deserves. It is not just a matter of ``grands`` that one makes and the ``millions`` in funding that one wins.

Since WWII universities all over the wolrd have gone through a process of democratization. Anyone with a high school diploma and a credit card can land in a university. IIT is atleast fair in this sense.

I remember that there were seven huge libraries in my university. And students did not have time or motivation even to open the text books. Then there were grades for class attendence and so on. Forced intellectual labor. What`s the point.

Only by raising the intellectual bar can we maintain the prestige of higher learning. Everyone should have access to university. The sophistication of the course work should make the cruisers run away.

Entrance exams do prepare people in some way as they have to study for them. But a computer can be programmed to do them as well. The power of characterization is the true merit for university. We cannot capture it in GRE or SAT.

There should be no watered down course work. The first year of university should be like a grad course. If people need preparation, then they should spend more time studying by themselves or in high school. Universities cannot offord to bend down to serve the high school role.

NHK #29,

Dr. Hoodbhoy is not an idealist. He is just being truthful. You will no doubt agree with me on the widely prevalent ``chalta hai`` attitude, in every effort that begins with a big-bang and ends in a whimper. People do not set high expectations, do not dare question the quality of a product, be it of the education being served, or of the student.

hoodbhoy is on the money yet again but is anyone in the government reading is the question? while dr. hoodbhoy is too polite to say this, i`d like to add my two cents. ata is nothing but a dr. strangelove type who loves publicity and has done nothing tangible which is sad since he is a smart man. ata doesnt have an ounce of intellectual honesty or integrity otherwise he would have resigned years ago. from missing centrifuges to misappropriating government funds to his own business ata has done it all. it could be a classic case for NAB but then who`s interested. after Dr. H`s article hit the press the links to the more banal research being funded were removed from the HEC site but can be found via google!

Re: # 32 I`d like to add my two cents. ata is nothing but a dr. strangelove type who loves publicity and has done nothing tangible which is sad since he is a smart man. ata doesnt have an ounce of intellectual honesty or integrity otherwise he would have resigned years ago.


Huh! Who else than Dr Atta has done more than him for promoting research and higher education in current scenario ? Give me the name of a single Pakistani with his services to the country and then we will debate who is more suitable. There is no use of making sweeping statements.

charlie,
buddy. how about you tell us what ata has done and we can talk on this! dr. hoodbhoy for one has done a hell of a lot more than ata. ata has profited nicely from his stint as he`s funneled away HR and equipment from the HEC to his own business. scratch the surface and you`ll find the scam....

Re: # 24 Well, about HEJ, I quoted more or less, the words of a person who has recently arrived at the same university as I am, on an HEC scholarship, from HEJ! No one, but him, can know better what goes on undercover. According to him HEJ is, `officially` a preferable institute for scholarships, because every student enrolled there has to take up a subjective GRE test(local). Now is this fair by any means, that a local course, and Dr Hoodbhoy`s has unvieled well the `authenticity` of this local GRE well here, be only commenced at one institute...isn`t it akin to deliberately giving the students of that very institute an upper hand over the others? That is the reason that more more Chemistry students have made it to the UK universites this year than all the other desciplines combined! Is it really that difficulat for Dr Atta to introduce such a program at other research institutes also?
Also, as for as the personal accomplishments of Dr Atta are concerned, no doubt both him and Dr hoodbhoy stand out among the top scientists in south Asia, but that does not mean he is a good policy-maker too...and his personas is free of all sorts of corruption? After all he`s been brought up in the same system, and is bound to keep up with it.
lastly for now....we need to be idealists to get out of this quagmire of incompetence and discredit.
more later...
best

Re: # 34

OK! Let`s see at Atta`s career...

Prof. Atta-ur-Rahman is internationally renowned in the field of natural product chemistry. He has written or edited 63 books the majority of which have been published in Europe, USA and Japan. He has also published 479 research papers in leading international scientific journals. 56 students have completed Ph.D. degrees under his exceptional / outstanding supervision. The Government of Pakistan has conferred four civil awards on him, including Nishan-i-Imtiaz (2002), Hilal-i-Imtiaz (1998), Sitara-i-Imtiaz (1991), and Tamgha-i-Imtiaz (1983), in recognition of his eminent contributions in the field of Organic Chemistry.

Prof. Atta-ur-Rahman has also won several national and international prizes. He is the first scientist from the Islamic World to have received the prestigious UNESCO Science Prize (1999) in the 30 year old history of the award. He has secured numerous other national and international prizes and awards including the ECO Prize (2000), ISESCO Prize (2001) to have been awarded the degree of Doctorate of Science (Sc.D) by University of Cambridge. The FPCCI Prize for Technological Innovation (1985), the “Best Scientist of the Year” Award of the Government of Pakistan (1986), the Islamic Organization Prize by Government of Kuwait (1988), the First Prize at the 6th Khwrazmi Festival by the President of Iran (1993), the Prime Minister’s Gold Medal and Pakistan Academy of Sciences-INFAQ Foundation Prize in Science (1995) and the Federation of Asian Chemical Societies Award (Hiroshima, Japan, 1997)

Prof. Atta-ur-Rahman has also been awarded the prestigious degree of Doctor of Science (Sc.D.) by the University of Cambridge in 1987. He is the Fellow of all three major international science Academies (Third World Academy of Sciences, Islamic Academy of Sciences and Pakistan Academy of Sciences).

Presently, Prof. Atta-ur-Rahman is the Editor-in-Chief / Executive Editor of six international journals: Natural Product Letters (Switzerland), Current Medicinal Chemistry (U.S.A), Current Pharmaceutical Design (U.S.A.), Current Organic Chemistry (U.S.A.), Combinatorial Chemistry and High Throughput Screening (U.S.A.) and Mini-Reviews in Medicinal Chemistry (Netherlands). He is also the Editor of an encyclopedic series of books on natural product chemistry, “Studies in Natural Product Chemistry”, 27 volumes of which have been published under his Editorship during the last 12 years. He is the Director of H.E.J. Research Institute of Chemistry, University of Karachi. Due to the efforts of Professor Atta-ur-Rahman, the H.E.J. Research Institute of Chemistry, University of Karachi has been selected as the Third World Centre for Science & Technology in Chemical Sciences after international competition and the Institute has won international projects worth over 40 million U.S. dollars from Germany, Japan, U.K., U.S.A. and France for its various developmental activities. The Institute has, thus, been transformed into one of the most powerful centers in the world in the field of natural products chemistry. Prof. Atta-ur-Rahman has also been appointed by the President of Pakistan as the Coordinator General of COMSTECH, an OIC Ministerial Committee comprising the 57 Ministers of Science & Technology from 57 OIC member countries. Prof. Atta-ur-Rahman was the Federal Minister for Science and Technology (14th March, 2000- 20 November 2002). Presently he is the Chairman of the Higher Education Commission with the status of a Federal Minister

Re: # 34 Well, no one should be doubting Dr. Atta ur Rehman`s credibility as a Scientist here, he is certainly an eminant one, and holds a good place among the leading Chemists internationally.

#37 are you kidding? did you not see the following...reads like a joke.

``He is the Fellow of all three major international science Academies (Third World Academy of Sciences, Islamic Academy of Sciences and Pakistan Academy of Sciences). ``

Dr. Saadia, granted 5 Million+ ... Her actual address is Bhalla House, Multan Road, Lahore.

Dr. Saadia Khawar Khan Christo w/o Dr. Atta Ullah Chishti R/o Bhalla House
http://contracts.onecle.com/align-tech/bhallah.lease.2000.09.01.shtml
(Thank you Google)

She is the mother of Zia Chishti (Align Technology/TRG), who. in turn, is really chummy with Dr. Atta (the Paki IT evangelist) ever since TRG was established, Mushi (the enlightened moderate muslim), and the rest of Pakistan`s capable rulers.

She would have gotten the grant even if she were studying the effect of Van de Graaf machines on human teeth, :-S Nothing surprising!

Now, are there any volunteers to go and ask her exactly what is she doing with the money?

On a different note, I still remember those first chapters in the local school science books that listed down contributions of muslim scientists... wonder whatever happened to that?

Interesting rebuttal from the executive director of HEC. Complete article at(www.jang.com.pk/thenews/index.html)

``- Regarding the Master Trainers in Physics programme being run by Quaid-e-Azam University, it should be noted that Dr Hoodbhoy asked to be placed in charge of the programme when it was first proposed. Presently, his only objections to the programme pertain to the manner in which it is being implemented. However, the responsibility of implementing that project belongs entirely to the physics department of Quaid-e-Azam University (of which Dr Hoodbhoy is a very senior member); the HEC has not selected (let alone ``hand-picked``) a single ``master trainer.``

- While discussing the Allama Iqbal Open University`s Chemistry Project, the article notes that according to the project summary, ``this work aims to correct the mistakes made in this area by a Nobel Prize-winner in chemistry`` and that ``such grand notions of challenging Nobel Prize-winners are highly suspect.`` The abstract of the proposal clearly states that Dr Atta-ur-Rehman did the initial work in 1972, and that the resultant research did, in fact, show the work of the Nobel Laureate in Chemistry to have been incorrect. The current work is only an extension of that research. In fact, the 1972 article by Dr Atta-ur-Rehman was one of the works specifically cited by the United Nations when it awarded him the UNESCO Science Prize.

- There is criticism of the Biology Department at QAU for having as many as 40 students with one supervisor - an incorrect allegation. As per HEC rules, the maximum number of PhD fellowship holders allowed to be registered with any one supervisor is eight. The HEC has only approved a total of 20 PhD fellowships at the QAU biology department, which are being supervised by 10 HEC-approved supervisors.

- Furthermore, the HEC`s quality control system introduced stipulates that the HEC will not recognise any local PhD unless the thesis has been approved by at least two eminent academics from industrially advanced countries, and the work has been published in an international journal. In addition, the international subject GRE, is required before a student is allowed to enrol into the PhD programme and conduct extensive course work both at M.Phil. and PhD levels.``

I think Hoodhboy has the habit of streching the truth, quite a bit. I am always a bit concerned when academicians try to become high-profile social activists also. To be a popular and well-known social activist one has to, by definition, create publicity and controversy, e.g. tying yourself to a tree, lying down on roads, etc. Sometimes Hoodhboy lets that get the better of him......

It would be interesting to see a rebuttal to the rebuttal, from him......

re:36

charlie, i take it you`re a pretty well educated guy. you`ve just prattled off dr. ata`s ``cv``. how is it humanly possible to concurrently be the chaiman of the HEC and churn out the research papers he does, and run the family business (with government funds ofcourse)? According to the ``record`` Dr. Ata not only publishes the highest number of research papers but also supervises PHD students. WOW.

let`s look at the facts. everything dr. ata has done in the past 5 years has been half baked. his stint as the minister for science and technology came first. as a result of his half assed work pakistan faced the most embarrassing and costly internet ``breakdown`` for 12 days costing businesses millions of dollars. according to dr. ata even villages have the internet today but have you ever tried to use the internet in sahiwal? or bahawalpur? hmmm. thought not.

giving out press releases and interviews is the easy part my friend but actually delivering on what you`re claiming is another. i have no doubt that dr. ata is a bright man but he`s fallen short on all counts. he can talk the talk, but as we`ve seen he cant walk the walk.

Perhaps this thing has been discussed either in Interacts or somewhere else, so sorry if its a repitition. or perhaps its a deviant from the topic, but still i have these comments to make on Dr. Ata`s Philosophy and new Reforms.

I am totally against the idea of funding PhD Students. What Pakistan needs is good Researchers. And by giving PhD Stipends and Funding PhDs will yes of course produce a huge number of PhDs but it will not produce Good Researchers. PhD is not for everyone, not everyone has an aptitute for Research. So my personnel opinion is to Fund Masters Students and after that if someone is fanatic about research he will find funding himself. PhD is funded in every University, its just that you have to show your Research Potential and Interest.

One can get into PhD in nearly every University if one is ready to Fund his PhD himself.

Current Reforms will populate the Universities with PhDs but most of them will be the kind who did their PhD because they got PhD Scholorship not because they were interested.

But perhaps at the initial step we need just teaching Faculty and then we can move to next Research Phase.

Dear Dr. Hoodbhai,

Thank you for such a true article.

I still remember my days in the University of Peshawar where the teacher of Development Economics used to dictate us the notes that he took from his teacher in 70`s. I actually wanted to read Development Economics but had to leave it for that very reason.

The standard of other departments in the University was even verse.

Rambler

DEAR SIR...
a very good article and a true picture of what is going on around..

being a student i feel that we r not actually having research environment to work in any science or other field... Money is not the only thing that is needed ...iff not at PhD level , even at masters level if some one is willing to go for research work, supervisors are not easily available ...atleast thats what i found....

definately agree that HEC is only pouring money into projects ... universities prepairing PC1s and such docs all the time to grab good chunks of it.. but are these facilities actually being used as they should be?? unfortunately NO.... HEC just give out fundind... is that funding actuallly being utilized for the purpose for which it is beings assigned ???

....

thanks Sir for an informative insight....
Prayers n regards

One respects Dr. Hoodhboy`s candor and courage -- a shortened version of his article was published in the Dawn as well and Dr. Ata ur Rehman hopefully read it. But, I have three points to make:

1) Dr. Ata is probably one of the most brilliant men around -- keeping his world class concurrent contributions in HEJ, Chemistry Journal editing, COMSTECH, Ministry of S & T and HEC. Perhaps he is overstretched -- nevertheless he is highly dedicated and he is probably a genius. It is disingenous to blame the 12 day Internet failure on Ata -- he had legislated 50% satellite backup which fell to 2% in his aftermath. The growth of the Internet in his tenure, the greater respect to higher eduction which will probably take half a generation to take root, the importation of Pak Expats as faculty, the dissemination of knowledge through digital libararies -- these are all fundamental building blocks for change. You cannot on the one hand condemn the lack of intellectualism and knowledge in Pakistan and in the same breath blame the poverty of research proposals on Ata. One has to make a start before one goes to improve quality.

2) Zia Chisty, by the way, is a brilliant man who won over Mushy and Ata with a combination of brains and PR. They do not favor him because he bribed them or is related to them, they favour him because they think he is good for the country. In the real world, anywhere in the world, many projects germinate based on relatinships. If Zia`s mom got funding, it is wrong to imply that it is only due to sifarish and she could have gotten funding for any quality of project. I feel it is this kind of sceptic pessimism which hurts positive change.

3) If you undertake a lot of projects some are bound to fail. That is the law of the VC and that is the law elsewhere. Dealing with Government apathy, changing mindsets and a society are probably the hardest undertakings. It takes a different type of intelligence, but it is probably much harder than doing original work in Theoretical Physics. Yes its apples and oranges but leading change in society demands many more dimensions of intelligence. It so easy to be an arm chair critic and so hard to deliver. Life away from Ivory Towers is a different cup of tea -- particularly when one has to inspire people to change rather than heaping condescension and criticism on them. And by people one doesn`t mean impressionable students -- one means battle heardened, apathetic, often corrupt, cynical veterans.

TITLE: Higher Education and the HEC: A response to Professor Hoodbhoy

Dr. S. Sohail H. Naqvi, Executive Director, Higher Education Commission

Corruption. Dishonesty. Incompetence. Cronyism. These are only a few of the very serious charges laid by Dr. Pervez Hoodbhoy at the door of the Higher Education Commission. One would expect such charges to be fully substantiated, especially when made by a distinguished academic.

Administrative competence

Let us start with the announcement that HEC’s projects are riddled with “gross administrative incompetence.” As proof, Dr. Hoodbhoy refers to the “Best University Teacher” program. Please note that there is no objection to the project itself, merely to the manner in which it is being implemented. But what is this highly objectionable course adopted by the HEC?

The HEC selects the “best” university teachers on the basis of nominations received from university administrations. But those administrators are not supposed to make nominations based upon their personal whims. Instead, those nominations are required to be made on the basis of numerous factors, including student evaluations, a point which has been completely ignored. There are more than 250,000 university students in Pakistan. The HEC cannot interview those students itself. So, once the hype is stripped away, what we are left with is a program which Dr. Hoodbhoy admits is innovative and desirable, which the HEC is trying to implement in a self-evidently reasonable manner, and yet the program, according to Dr. Hoodbhoy, is conclusive proof of gross incompetence.

The real problem here is that Dr. Hoodbhoy sees the rest of Pakistan as a problem, not as an opportunity. The HEC, however, does not have the luxury of living in an ideal world. Instead, it has to make do with the human resources which exist today in Pakistan. Dr. Hoodbhoy is right when he says that the HEC sees existing faculty members as “part of the solution.” The HEC feels no reason to be ashamed of that vision.

We come then to Dr. Hoodbhoy’s other example of “gross incompetence “– the Master Trainers in Physics program being run by Quaid e Azam University. Once again, we can safely assume that Dr. Hoodbhoy has no objection to the concept of the program itself since two years ago, when the project was first proposed, he demanded that he be placed in charge of it. Once again, his only objection to the program is the manner in which the project is being implemented. But, the HEC is not in charge of the implementation of that project. That responsibility belongs entirely to the Physics department of Quaid e Azam University, of which Dr. Hoodbhoy is a very senior member. Contrary to what Dr. Hoodbhoy says, HEC has not selected (let alone “hand-picked”) a single “master trainer.”

Research funding

We come then to Dr. Hoodbhoy’s allegation that HEC is throwing “enormous sums . . . at half-baked proposals.” The first exhibit in this regard is the grant sanctioned by the HEC for the purchase of a Van de Graaf accelerator. Obviously, a Van de Graaf accelerator’s use for “cutting-edge” research is limited, but that was never its purpose. Instead, it was always intended to be used for teaching and general research, for which purpose it was, and remains, a very useful machine since cutting-edge particle accelerators cost billions of dollars. Similarly, Dr. Hoodbhoy pours much scorn on the grant to Dr. Saadia Chishti. But, Dr. Chishti holds a PhD in education from Cornell and has been a senior research fellow at both Oxford and the Divinity School at Harvard. Her project, like any other research grant proposal funded by HEC, was not examined by HEC itself. Instead, as per standard procedures, the proposal was sent to be examined by the focal person in that subject (normally, the single most eminent and recognised scholar in that area in Pakistan) who then referred it to other competent scholars, who examined and reviewed the proposal. That internationally recognised method remains the standard method by which HEC reviews all grant proposals. Dr. Hoodbhoy asks “how true is this?” The question which Dr. Hoodbhoy needs to be asked is, “where is your proof that this method is not being followed?

While discussing the Allama Iqbal Open University Chemistry project, Dr. Hoodbhoy’s notes that according to the project summary, “this work aims to correct the mistakes made in this area by a Nobel Prize winner in chemistry” and that “such grand notions of challenging Nobel Prize winners are highly suspect.” What the abstract of the proposal clearly states is that the initial work was done in 1972 by Dr. Atta-ur-Rehman, that the resultant research did in fact show the work of the Nobel Laureate in Chemistry to have been incorrect, and that the current work is only an extension of that research. In fact, the 1972 article by Dr. Atta ur Rehman was one of the works specifically cited by the United Nations when it awarded him the UNESCO Science Prize.

PhD Factories

Dr. Hoodbhoy specifically alleges that in the Biology Department at QAU, there are as many as 40 students with one supervisor. The Quaid-e-Azam University has confirmed that these allegations are incorrect. It should first be noted that as per HEC rules, the maximum number of PhD fellowship holders allowed to be registered with any one supervisor is eight. Furthermore, so far as the Biology department at QAU is concerned, HEC has not approved even a total of 40 PhD fellowships, let alone 40 for one supervisor. Instead, HEC has only approved a total of 20 PhD fellowships at the QAU biology department, which are being supervised by 10 HEC approved supervisors.

The Quality Control System introduced by the HEC has stipulated that HEC will not recognise any local PhD unless the thesis has been approved by at least two eminent academics from industrially advanced countries, and the work has been published in an international journal. In addition the international subject GRE before a student is allowed to be enrolled into the Ph.D. program and extensive course work both at M.Phil. and PhD levels has been introduced. Dr. Hoodbhoy is well aware of these steps but has ignored these, and many other measures, taken by the HEC to raise the quality of higher education in Pakistan.

What is most unfortunate is that Prof. Hoodbhoy has ignored the largest programs of the Commission. These include programs relating to sending students on scholarships to foreign universities, post-doctoral training programs, and the foreign faculty hiring program under which hundreds of eminent expatriate and foreign scientists have joined Pakistani universities. These are the programs that have begun to change the landscape of our universities, uplifting them from their current mediocre status. Professor Hoodbhoy claims that the GRE-type administered by HEC is worthless. But if that is the case, why are professors from Austria, Germany, France and other countries clamouring for these students? Last week alone, 92 students left for France to do post-graduate studies. To date, foreign supervisors have expressed complete satisfaction with the quality of the students sent to them.

The Higher Education Commission is aiming to be one of the first public sector institutions to implement a fully computerized financial management system in accordance with the New Accounting Model (NAM) adopted by Project for Improvement of Financial Reporting and Auditing (PIFRA). For the record, HEC would welcome any financial or performance audit by any agency. We have nothing to hide.

It must also be realized that the entire amount of Government funds available to nearly sixty public sector universities in Pakistan do not match the funds available to a single reasonable size university in Malaysia. Advanced countries spend an average of about Rs. 6 million per student per year while Pakistan only spends Rs. 35,000 per student per year. Today, out of an eligible pool of more than 20 million people in Pakistan between the ages of 18 – 23, only about 250,000 students are physically studying at universities and degree granting institutions. This is one of the lowest percentages in the world. Is it not time that Pakistan improved this percentage?

Today, as a consequence of the HEC’s efforts and the enhanced funds provided by the government, every public sector university in Pakistan has computers, an internal computer network, high speed connectivity to the Internet, access to more than 15,000 journals and access to state-of-the-art instrumentation. Enrolment in our universities is rising at an excellent rate, four-year undergraduate programs are being introduced from Malakand to Khairpur, faculty members are writing research proposals, collaborating with leading foreign universities, going on sabbaticals and post-doctoral fellowships, and presenting their research work to the world. For the first time, Pakistan is making its presence felt in the international academic world. Over the last two years, there has been a 44% increase in the number of papers by Pakistani academics appearing in internationally reputed scientific journals. Is this not progress? Only a continued emphasis on higher education, science and technology will ensure that Pakistan prospers, becomes self reliant, and utilizes its greatest asset - its people.

Re: # 46
I guess the problem of Hoodbhoy can be we defined in the following words:

``The real problem here is that Dr. Hoodbhoy sees the rest of Pakistan as a problem, not as an opportunity.``

And I agree with one of the freinds that:

``Hoodhboy has the habit of streching the truth, quite a bit. I am always a bit concerned when academicians try to become high-profile social activists also. To be a popular and well-known social activist one has to, by definition, create publicity and controversy, e.g. tying yourself to a tree, lying down on roads, etc. Sometimes Hoodhboy lets that get the better of him...... ``````

In my opinion he is succeeding. I realized this when I saw this guy on one of the channels.
So he is on his way to become popular..........congrats!!!

In his rebuttal to my article (The News, 7 July 2005), Dr. Sohail Naqvi (The News, 12 July 2005) claims he has ``set the record straight`` but fails to do so because he evades key issues. He justifies purchase of obsolete Van de Graaf technology worth nearly 400 million rupees ``for teaching and general research``. But these are vague, meaningless terms. This is never how science functions, and is an excuse for the HEC`s abysmal scientific ignorance and appalling wastage. He needs to know that small, modern accelerators with much better performance can be bought for a fraction of the proposed cost.

In the matter of Dr. Saadia Chishty and ``Quranization Of Science Courses at the M.Sc Level``: will Dr. Naqvi please tell us why 55 lakh rupees were awarded to a project which does not involve experiments, equipment, surveys, or any major expenditure? I would also like to know why the project title (approved in 2003-2004) on the HEC website was
changed the very next day after my article was published in The News. A Google cache stands as proof of this embarassing change.

Dr. Naqvi defends the grant of 53 lakhs to Prof. Atta-ur-Rahman for a chemistry project at AIOU. He does not explain, however, how a distance-learning institute can do cutting-edge scientific research, especially since the principal investigator heads 3 other institutions (including the HEC), is co-principal investigator of some other projects listed on the HEC web page, and is out of Pakistan much of the time.


Dr. Naqvi stoutly defends his implementation of the HEC ``Best University Teacher Award``, wherein administrators were asked to nominate the best teachers. He says that the HEC could not possibly interview 250,000 students. Quite so. But, as he knows, the administrators simply nominated themselves as best teachers. This happened two times in a row. So if this is how HEC programmes are to be implemented, then it is best not to have them in the first place.


As for the case of 40 PhD students enrolled under one supervisor at QAU: I certainly did not say that all 40 were funded by the HEC -- they presumably have different funding sources. The list of registered students is available from QAU. Dr. Naqvi tells us that the HEC supports up to 8 PhD students per supervisor. This too is a very large number.


Finally, in relation to the disastrous ``Physics Master Trainers`` program at QAU, Dr. Naqvi claims that ``Dr Hoodbhoy asked to be placed in charge of the programme when it was first proposed``. This is false. There was a 5-person committee of which I was a member, and my demand was that the programme should not be handed over to one particular member whose basic understanding of physics is well known to be weak. Other physicist members supported my stand, but the HEC made its own choice and the results are before everyone.


Dr. Pervez Hoodbhoy
Physics Department
Quaid-e-Azam University
Islamabad.

Re: # 48

Scientists are very proud of their logic. Anything that seems logically true, I had listened that they accept it open heartedly. Wondering how and why two good researchers like Atta and Hoodbhoy can let their differences rise to a level that they expose them in front of the whole world.

I have a lot of respect for Dr Hoodbhoy. I don`t want that he involves in a publically declared war as it results in the degradation of his own image as well. While activism demands publicity, propoganda and media support, policy management for research institutes needs to be done silently and tactically. Dr Hoodbhoy, now being more of an activist than a ``research manager``, deals with the both situations the same way.

First it was Dr Daudpota who created differences with HEC, publicized them and lost his job. For people like him losing a job is really not a big thing. He can find a better work at any place he wants. But his loss of job resulted in the loss of HEC losing his talent which is loss of Pakistan in one way or other. Now it is Dr Hoodbhoy repeating it again. What I want from people like them is that they should try to correct the system while living inside it. Revolutionizing the system, destroying the exisiting thing and rebuilding whole from scratch, bringing changes within a night and changing the mindset of Pakistani Professors within a single day etc. look like immature and childish ideas. They should behave more maturely in dealing with the atrocities of existing faculty with a non-combatting manner. They need to find like-minded people (if there are any left in Pakistan) and strenghten their influence while remaining the senior members of the faculty or policy management organizations.

Re: # 49 [have a lot of respect for Dr Hoodbhoy. I don`t want that he involves in a publically declared war as it results in the degradation of his own image as well.]

Revolution eats it`s own children. ;)

#49 by Charlie

Hoodbhoy`s arguments r less about him and his activism and more about the HEC`s policies. If HEC and Ata are not beyond question, then one should not stop any Hoodbhoy or any Daudpota from criticising HEC or Ata.

You should more worry about why Daudpota was fired than why he ever objected publicly.

Instead of forcing compliance, we should encourage and tolerate dissent. What is happening b/w HEC and Hoodbhoy is really very good. If HEC feels forced to change the title of course this time, we might anticipate, next time, they might as well don`t fund souch ludicurous projects

A more scathing attack by the same Dr. Sohail Naqvi is here

http://satribune.com/archives/200507/P1_hec.htm

Looks like the News has toned down the original version.

Hmmm...there are 3 versions of Sohail Naqvi`s rebuttals :)

Actually, the original response is on HEC site:

http://www.hec.gov.pk/htmls/1HEC_HE.doc

The doc properties said, it is owned by ``Bhandari, Naqvi & Riaz``

....which leads you to http://bnrlaw.net/ a law firm.

I wonder if Dr. sahab got his response vetted by a law firm, where it got edited by 4-5 eminent lawyers, each sending different version to different channel !

I disagree with the author as Prof. Atta-ur-Rahman is a shining star of Pakistan and the best scintist. If he is working sincerely day and night for the promoting higher education then why he has been criticized. What ever he is doing for the country the outcome will be seen after five-ten years. But Hoodbhoy seems to be only crtical and his crticizm is only for criticizm not for any reform. Plz try to respect our national hero. Without any doubt he is the best of the bests.

I remember one parody poem from ex-chairman of chemistry department of QAU. Where he write some 15 yeras back about KOOD Bhoy. He wrote it about Prof. Hood Bhoy who always trys to poke his nose in each and every ones affair. I hope Prof. Atta-ur-Rahman wont mind this junk article about him and will keep doing his best for the country.

re #54.

``cute humna`` is living proof of what`s wrong with the HEC and the educational system of our country. we have university graduates/secondary school graduates who cannot even spell or form coherent sentences in English. It`s sad to say that even people with Masters` degrees cannot speak or write proper English. The point isnt about the English language; rather the implication this has on the future of this country and the people who are in charge of imparting education.

Let me first tell you Prof. Bhai, ``Jealousy is the crime which makes you blind``
Ok being a student of science, I can never reach your thoughts but how it matches your personality that you can think so cheap. If you remember our meeting at Peshawer during Chem-Con 2001 at the dinner in Khyber Hall, you said that we need a person who can find sources to develop scientific culture in this country, so why not you join this GREAT person Atta-ur-Rahman`s team with a positive attitude by forgetting your personal conflicts with him (which I feel only you have) and let`s try to get this nation on right track. Nations are built by team work not by this style of leg-pulling. If according you HEC is doing something wrong why not you talk to them and contribute a little for your nation. By just dilvering two lectures a week and then flying to US and UK is not service of nation on the same HEC`s expenses for who`s leader you have such thoughts. By just comparing very low levels and high levels is not the key to solution. I just mention you example of your own department at Quaid-e-Azam University, which clearly shows you have even personal conflicts with your department head, why didn`t you asked him not to buy such a useless instrument (Which I don`t think will be useless,as it is very obvious that things are never useful or useless but these are the minds make them so).
At the end once again I request your pleasure to be bold and positive to serve the nation and shake hand with this great person who needs intelectuals like you with positive attitude to serve this poor nation, who is paying you more than any one just for two or three lecture. Think again it is also coming from the pocket of a poor Pakistani.

Corruption. Dishonesty. Incompetence. Cronyism. These are only a few of the very serious charges laid by Dr. Pervez Hoodbhoy at Higher Education Commission. One would expect such charges to be fully substantiated, especially when made by a distinguished academic. Unfortunately, Professor Hoodbhoy does not seem to believe in research any more.
Let us start with Dr. Hoodbhoy’s dramatic announcement that HEC’s projects are riddled with “gross administrative incompetence.” As proof, Dr. Hoodbhoy refers to the “Best University Teacher” program. Please note that Dr. Hoodbhoy has no objection to the project itself, merely to the manner in which it is being implemented. But what is this highly objectionable course adopted by the HEC?
Admittedly, the HEC selects the “best” university teachers on the basis of nominations received
from university administrations. But those administrators are not supposed to make nominations based upon their personal whims. Instead, those nominations are required to be made on the basis of numerous factors, including student evaluations, a point which has been completely ignored by Dr. Hoodbhoy.
In any event, is the HEC’s approach really so unreasonable as to justify a charge of “gross incompetence?” Is Dr. Hoodbhoy really arguing that no factor other than student opinion can ever be important in determining who is a good teacher? Is he really saying that the opinion of one’s peers is irrelevant?
There are more than 250,000 university students in Pakistan. The HEC cannot interview those students itself. The HEC therefore has no option but to work with the existing administrations of universities to implement its programs. So, once the hype is stripped away, what we are left with is a program which Dr. Hoodbhoy admits is innovative and desirable, which the HEC is trying to implement in a self-evidently reasonable manner, and yet the program, according to Dr. Hoodbhoy, is conclusive proof of gross incompetence.
The real problem here is that Dr. Hoodbhoy sees the rest of Pakistan as a problem, not as an opportunity. The HEC, however, does not have the luxury of living in an ideal world. Instead, it has to make do with the human resources which exist today in Pakistan. Dr. Hoodbhoy is right when he says that the HEC sees existing faculty members as “part of the solution.” Unlike Dr. Hoodbhoy, the HEC feels no reason to be ashamed of that vision.
We come then to Dr. Hoodbhoy’s other example of “gross incompetence “– the Master Trainers in Physics program being run by Quaid e Azam University. Once again, we can safely assume that Dr. Hoodbhoy has no objection to the concept of the program itself since two years ago, when the project was first proposed, he demanded that he be placed in charge of it.
Once again, his only objection to the program is the manner in which the project is being implemented. But, the HEC is not in charge of the implementation of that project. That responsibility belongs entirely to the Physics department of Quaid e Azam University, of which Dr. Hoodbhoy is supposedly a very senior member.
Contrary to what Dr. Hoodbhoy says, HEC has not selected (let alone “hand-picked”) a single “master trainer.” Instead, each and every “master trainer” has been selected by the Physics Department at QAU. Dr. Hoodbhoy may be justified in his criticism of the master trainers but that is something for him, as a senior member of the QAU Physics Department, to raise first with that department.
Of course, Dr. Hoodbhoy chose to spend the last year on extraordinary leave so perhaps he was not in a position to offer his views. Dr. Hoodbhoy also alleges that the Master Trainers are being grossly overpaid. Perhaps Dr. Hoodbhoy has forgotten that he spent part of his extraordinary one-year leave giving lectures at Rs. 45,000 per hour. The Master Trainers are only paid a fraction of that amount; but then perhaps they lack Dr. Hoodbhoy’s facility with the truth.
It should be noted that the object of this article is not to unfairly malign Dr. Hoodbhoy. However, Dr. Hoodbhoy has not given a single name of a single Master Trainer whom he believes to be unqualified. Instead, he has simply slandered the entire lot of them without bothering to give any details whatsoever.
To the extent Dr. Hoodbhoy has specific and verifiable details regarding the Master Trainers he should first try to resolve his qualms at the departmental level and if that fails, then approach the HEC. If the HEC then refuses to listen to him, he can justifiably claim that the program is a disgrace. Till such time he bothers to substantiate his allegations though, it is only Dr. Hoodbhoy who can be considered a disgrace.
We come then to Dr. Hoodbhoy’s allegation that HEC is throwing “enormous sums ... at half-baked proposals.” Dr. Hoodbhoy’s first exhibit in this regard is the grant sanctioned by the HEC for the purchase of a Van de Graaf accelerator. Admittedly, a Van de Graaf accelerator’s use for “cutting-edge” research is limited but that was never its purpose. Instead, it was always intended to be used for teaching and general research for which purpose it was, and remains, a very useful machine. Cutting-edge particle accelerators cost billions of dollars which is why HEC has partnered with other developing nations to have access to the SESAME project in Jordan.
It should also be remembered that the proposal for the accelerator was submitted by the National Center for Physics, whose board is manned by the most eminent physicists in Pakistan. If Dr. Hoodbhoy is to be believed, those physicists are all either fools or criminals. The alternative does not leave Dr. Hoodbhoy in good company.
Similarly, Dr. Hoodbhoy pours much scorn on the grant to Dr. Saadia Chishti. But, Dr. Chishti holds a PhD in education from Cornell and has been a senior research fellow at both Oxford and the Divinity School at Harvard. Her project, like any other research grant proposal funded by HEC, was not examined by HEC itself.
Instead, as per standard procedures, the proposal was sent to be examined by the focal person in that subject (normally, the single most eminent and recognized scholar in that area in Pakistan) who then referred it to other competent scholars, who examined and reviewed the proposal. That internationally recognized method remains the standard method by which HEC reviews all grant proposals. Dr. Hoodbhoy asks “how true is this?”
The question which Dr. Hoodbhoy needs to be asked is, “where is your proof that this method is not being followed?” Dr. Hoodbhoy tries to gain much mileage from the fact that some of the research proposals he reviewed were dubious. But clearly, HEC is not responsible for the quality of research proposals sent to it, only for the quality of research proposals actually funded by it.
Assuming Dr. Hoodbhoy did indeed review a proposal containing a request for a $90,000 fridge, how is that proposal in any way represented of HEC’s performance?
Dr. Hoodbhoy drops dark hints about how his refusal to fund $90,000 refrigerators has resulted in his no longer reviewing research proposals. It is a routine matter for reviewers to reject unreasonable requests submitted by scientists, and Dr. Hoodbhoy`s rejection of such a request was a normal response. The item was thus never funded by the HEC. Dr. Hoodbhoy is here trying too hard for the halo of martyred sainthood. HEC has no control over who is selected by the focal person to review proposals, nor has it created any “black lists.”
If Dr. Hoodbhoy is not being selected to review proposals by the focal point in Physics, that would be the focal point’s decision, not that of HEC. It should further be noted that the focal point for Physics is Professor Dr. Riazuddin, one of 25 Distinguished National Professors in Pakistan, the Director of the National Center for Physics, and according to one internationally accepted method of ranking scholarly achievement (the “Impact Factor Assessment”), having an impact factor nearly eight times as that of Dr. Hoodbhoy.
The same shoddy approach can also be seen in Dr. Hoodbhoy’s discussion of the grant to the Allama Iqbal Open University. He notes that according to the project summary, “this work aims to correct the mistakes made in this area by a Nobel Prize winner in chemistry” and that “such grand notions of challenging Nobel Prize winners are highly suspect.”
What the abstract of the proposal actually states is that, “In our earlier investigations . . . we had found the earlier work of the Nobel Laureate Sir Ropert Robinson and two of his eminent colleagues Sir W. H. Perkins and R.H.F. Manske . . . to be incorrect.” The project abstract clearly states that the initial work was done in 1972 by Dr. Atta-ur-Rahman, that the resultant research did in fact show the work of the Nobel Laureate in Chemistry to have been incorrect, and that the current work is only an extension of that research.
In fact, the 1972 article by Dr. Atta-ur-Rahman was one of the works specifically cited by the United Nations when it awarded him the UNESCO Science Prize. Dr. Atta-ur-Rahman remains, till date, the only Muslim scientist to have received this honor. It is tempting to believe that that Dr. Hoodbhoy simply misread the project abstract. Unfortunately, it appears more likely that he has deliberately misrepresented its contents.
Dr. Hoodbhoy’s allegations with respect to HEC’s efforts to increase the number of PhDs in Pakistan is one of the few instances in his article where he actually substantiates his allegations with concrete facts. Unfortunately, those facts are all wrong.
Dr. Hoodbhoy specifically alleges that in the Physics department of QAU, as many as 15 PhD students are registered with one supervisor while in the Biology Department at QAU, there are as many as 40 students with one supervisor. The Quaid-e-Azam University has confirmed that these allegations are incorrect. It should first be noted that as per HEC rules, the maximum number of PhD fellowship holders allowed to be registered with any one supervisor is eight.
Furthermore, so far as the Biology department at QAU is concerned, HEC has not approved even a total of 40 PhD fellowships, let alone 40 for one supervisor. Instead, HEC has only approved a total of 20 PhD fellowships at the QAU biology department, which are being supervised by 10 HEC approved supervisors. Similarly, so far as the QAU physics department is concerned, HEC has only approved a total of 33 fellowships which are in turn being supervised by 11 professors. It should also be noted that none of those 33 students are enrolled with Dr. Hoodbhoy. In fact, Dr. Hoodbhoy has not published any work with a Pakistani student for almost a decade now.
It is unfortunate that the HEC’s efforts continue to be greeted with scorn and suspicion. Dr. Hoodbhoy, like many other education reformers in Pakistan, has called for more funding of the sciences on numerous occasions. Now that funding is being provided, it is necessary for Dr. Hoodbhoy to remove the blinkers of the past and give the HEC a fair hearing. For example, Dr. Hoodbhoy says that the PhDs which will be produced locally as a result of the HEC’s efforts will be worthless.
What Dr. Hoodbhoy fails to mention is that the HEC has stipulated that it will not recognize any local PhD unless the thesis has been approved by at least two eminent academics from industrially advanced countries, and the work has been published in an international journal. In fact, the quality control system that has been introduced includes the introduction of an international subject GRE before a student is allowed to be enrolled into the Ph.D. program and extensive course work both at M. Phil. and PhD levels. Dr. Hoodbhoy is well aware of these steps but has conveniently ignored these, and many other measures, taken by the HEC to raise the quality of higher education in Pakistan.
What is most unfortunate is that Prof. Hoodbhoy has ignored the largest programs of the Commission. These include programs relating to sending students on scholarships to foreign universities, post-doctoral training programs, and the foreign faculty hiring program under which hundreds of eminent expatriate and foreign scientists have joined Pakistani universities.
These are the programs that have begun to change the landscape of our universities, uplifting them from their current mediocre status. Professor Hoodbhoy claims that the GRE-type administered by HEC is worthless. But if that is the case, why are professors from Austria, Germany, France and other countries clamoring for these students? Last week alone, 92 students left for France to do post-graduate studies. Till date, foreign supervisors have expressed complete satisfaction with the quality of the students sent to them.
The Higher Education Commission is aiming to be one of the first public sector institutions to implement a fully computerized financial management system in accordance with the New Accounting Model (NAM) adopted by Project for Improvement of Financial Reporting and Auditing (PIFRA).
Already, almost all the financial record of the HEC for the previous financial year has been entered into the computer, and record of every transaction is available at fingertip. The HEC has also implemented a wide-ranging project monitoring system under which every project in every university has been physically visited, and its performance assessed against standard measures.
These reports are subsequently sent to the Finance Division, and the Planning Division. HEC also maintains the most widely accessed web site of any government department in Pakistan in which every single program is listed in detail along with results of all examinations and details regarding the award of research grants. For the record, HEC would welcome any financial or performance audit by any agency. We have nothing to hide.
It must also be realized that the entire amount of Government funds available to nearly sixty public sector universities in Pakistan do not match the funds available to a single reasonable size university in Malaysia. Advanced countries spend an average of about Rs. 6 million per student per year while Pakistan only spends Rs. 35,000 per student per year. Today, out of an eligible pool of more than 20 million people in Pakistan between the ages of 18 – 23, only about 250,000 students are physically studying at universities and degree granting institutions. This is one of the lowest percentages in the world. Is it not time that Pakistan improved this percentage?
Today, as a consequence of the HEC’s efforts and the enhanced funds provided by the government, every public sector university in Pakistan has computers, an internal computer network, high speed connectivity to the Internet, access to more than 15,000 journals and access to state-of-the-art instrumentation. Enrolment in our universities is rising at an excellent rate, four-year undergraduate programs are being introduced from Malakand to Khairpur, faculty members are writing research proposals, collaborating with leading foreign universities, going on sabbaticals and post-doctoral fellowships, and presenting their research work to the world.
Some 500 students have been sent abroad for PhD studies, Australia has offered 500 fully paid scholarships to Pakistan and over a billion rupees scholarship program has been initiated for poor and deserving students to study in private and public institutions which were previously beyond their financial means.
Over the last two years, there has been a 44 per cent increase in the number of papers by Pakistani academics appearing in internationally reputed scientific journals. For the first time, Pakistan is making its presence felt in the international academic world. Is this not progress?
To conclude then, Dr. Hoodbhoy’s diatribe against the HEC is completely unfair and unjustified. The HEC is doing its best to reform and serve higher education in Pakistan with both honesty and integrity. Unfortunately, that statement cannot be made with respect to Dr. Hoodbhoy’s efforts.

This is in response to ``RUMPUS`` who seems to have some personal grievances with HEC. As, I am not birth of HEC . So our prev