Project Mumbai Makeover: Casualties of Development

The have Nots and have sh!t still arguing ‘bout who is Socialist and who is secular.
Ran out of non existent money already… Slum Dwellers!

Gandhi na kiya Dia
In-Dia and slum-Dia

Mike,

Sri. Rajagopalachari and his Swatantra Party were for an open, free
enterprising and capitalistic India.
Unfortunately he did not succed - as to why, that is a different story.

Mike,

Indira Gandhi added the word `secular`.

Nehru and his acolytes were very enamoured by fabian socialism and also the
commies in Russia - so `socialism` was in the constitution from the beginning.

Also, there is no such thing as a `founding father` for India. Constitutional authors - yes,
but founding fathers - No.
One should stop copying Americans on every thing :)

Bharatavarsha is an ancient land - and does not need a founder :)

Mike.
Ignorance is hard to get rid of!!!
Okay, here`s a link of the constitution of India and preamble that was drafted in 1949--yeah, by
Dr. B.R. Ambedkar.
http://indiacode.nic.in/coiweb/coifiles/preamble.htm

AND, it does say ``socialist``

Its very difficult to argue with these leftist fools. They are absolutely blind to reason , facts or logic.

Kunal...do you have comprehension problem ? Read my post again.


``The founding fathers of the Indian constitution made `secularism` and `democracy` the fundamental pillars of our nationhood. Nowhere did they mention `socialism`. It was only Indira Gandhi , who during her bouts of crazy nationalisation , added the term `socialism` , making an amendment to the contitution.... ``

`Socialism` was never given a mention when Ambedkar and Co. wrote the constitution. It was Indira Gandhi who added `socialism` as an amendment to the constitution in the 1970s.

//..the welfare of workingclass poor has been increasingly in danger since liberalization in 1991...//

Yes - ``welfare`` of poor was so good before 1991 that they were 40% of the population - as opposed to 25%, after liberalization. That too when the base population itself has grown by so much.

That`s how the commie logic works. What moth@faking foolishness!!!

Mike,
//Nowhere did they mention `socialism`. It was only Indira Gandhi , who during her bouts of crazy nationalisation , added the term `socialism` , making an amendment to the contitution....

That is absolutely wrong. The constitution DOES say India is a socialist republic!!! and regardless of the word `socialist`, the welfare of workingclass poor has been increasingly in danger since liberalization in 1991.

“secular, socialist, democratic republic!``

The founding fathers of the Indian constitution made `secularism` and `democracy` the fundamental pillars of our nationhood. Nowhere did they mention `socialism`. It was only Indira Gandhi , who during her bouts of crazy nationalisation , added the term `socialism` , making an amendment to the contitution....

Nothing has done more damage to India than the adherence to the destructive principle of socialism. Progess stalted , people living in perpetual poverty , a largely backward agrarian economy , widespread corruption , loss making goverment controlled industries....all because of socialism. If India is a largely rotten country , its because of socialism.

So what Indians should demand is the repeal of the term `socialist` republic from the constitution.

Mr. Takdeo:

You have correctly highlighted the mafia-politician-developer nexus in Mumbai. They certainly have all prospered at the cost of Mumbai. But they are the minor problem. The major problem is that Mumbai simply has more -many more- people than it can afford. The city is already a large slum more or less with some oasis of ultra modernism. Building infrastructure in Mumbai is a must and this cannot happen without resettlement and relocation of slum dwellers, even though it may cause hardships to them.

The only other way is to accept your solution, which is to end all new developments in Mumbai and maybe even rollback some of the industry and development that comes its way. In other words, let it go the way Kolkotta did for several decades. No development, no job opportunities, and hence no one would want to come to Mumbai, except some Bangladeshi refugees. Problem solved. Is this what you really want?

Re: # 61
//...Only midle classes can think of the `gardners and dabbawallas`` as filth....//

Nobody here said that. What was said was -``gardners and dabbawallas are living in filth``.......

And YOUR idea is to keep them that way - keep them in filth and get ``services`` from them.... So Yes, I perfectly understood your and jagdish`s ``point``...... I have been hearing this lunatic arguments for a long time and we all know what such madness has caused to the country..... You should be ashamed of yourself - 57 years of failing the country and its` people, you still show up here and cry fake tears for the poor.

But mark my words - sooner or later, the poor will get better, poverty will come down further. Not because of your fake tears, but because of the hard work and productivity of the hated middle class, the entrepreneurship and resourceful-ness of the middle class. they will overcome your stupidity, they will generate money and employment.

They got half a chance in 1991 and the poverty came down from 40% to 25%. They know how to do it and they have proved it. All you have to do is stay out of the way and let the good people do the work.

Re: # 62 kunal


``And to care for poor people certainly does not mean you deprive them of their basic rights such as food and housing.``

no one is advocating to deny anyone food or housing. The question is about whether the day light robbery should be tolerated or not? and anyway housing is not a basic right.

``the life-style of the middle class and the elites is largely supported by the poor
who live in slums. Where else do you think your maids, gardners, dubbawalas etc come from?``

Dude Godbole....the maids, gardners, dabbawalas come because they want a job.
If there were no middle-class or elites - where would the jobs be ?
The dabbawala is not doing his job in order to be ``nice`` he is doing it because he is
getting paid for it.
The idea should be that there should be an ``opportunity`` for the dabbawala to educate
himself and his children so that they can become middle-class too, and not remain
a dabbawalla.
Making the middle-class and elites poorer will not help anyone.

To create high paying jobs, the Govt has to get out of running businesses, doling out
sops, protect individual freedom and enforce laws regarding property rights.
If you thought that the Govt can come
and seize your property or have squatters on your land - what will you do ?
You will try to flee to a better place. Imagine if a large number of people do that ....
the place becomes a dump

I notice this Shivali Tukdeo has fled from this site and refused to answer why she wants poor indians to stay poor forever.

Being ``pro-poor`` is no excuse for not using your brains. Living in kolkotta in the 70`s I have seen the viciousness, the mindlessness and the complete disinterest of the `liberal left`` in raising living standards for poor people.

Without good schemes for making the poor rich, all of this bakwaas is really about maintaining large vote banks for politicians. Nonsense like ``the servant works as hard as a software engineer`` is completely irrelevant to the issue. The real question is how to make the servant and his/her children richer and more educated. But strangely, the ``pro-poor`` have no interest in this issue!!

Re: # 62 kunal

``Remember, a few people are rich because many are poor. ``

better set of words would been:

a few people are rich but there are middle class and poor too.

what is the problem with that. if nilenkeni, narayan murthy have made it big is that because of robbing poor? what you want, every one to become poor? simply because not all can become rich at the same time.
shouldn`t the effort be towards upward movement. Things are far better now than what it used to during the hey days of socialism.

what you are advocating is known as Kletocracy, where stealing/grabbing others/government/public property is the way business is done.

Re: #58 by kunal

[Thank you jagdeesh. If not for human rights and equality, the mindless middle class and upper class in Mumbai should realize that they are dependent on the services of poor. ]


The poor are also dependent on the employment that the rich provide them.



#62 by kunal

[Mohar 11,

I don`t think you got Jagdeesh`s point. And to care for poor people certainly does not mean you deprive them of their basic rights such as food and housing.]


Food and housing are NOT basic rights under the Indian Constitution. You cannot sue the Indian Government for not having housing or food.



[Remember, a few people are rich because many are poor.]

No.

A few people are rich.

And many are poor.

If a few people were not rich, then EVERYBODY would be poor.



[Only midle classes can think of the `gardners and dabbawallas`` as filth.]


Most of the middle-class have far more compunction for the poor than your goody-two-shoes type.




[They work as hard, or more than a software professional.]


Then they should teach their children to be software professionals.




[One shoudn`t be patronizing to them and think of uplifting these ``filthy`` (your term) people, but one needs to be aware and respect their labor and fight for their rights. ]


YOU are being patronizing to them. They are fully capable of fighting for their own rights.


They should also think twice before popping out children like rabbits, even after much urging not to do so.