Project Mumbai Makeover: Casualties of Development

`Ahmedmadani` , you f**l.

`Chinese brothers` my tuckus!!.Where were the `chinese brothers` who kept silent when we indians went on a rampage in bangladesh and strayed deep into pakmullah land?.They were on our side, eh??.Chuckle.Are you this gullible???.........

#111 by ahmedmadani

[Pakistan rate of growth is second highest only exceeded by brother country of China.]

Here`s a quote from one of the lefty-type bleeding hearts about how China treats brother ahmedmadani`s siblings:

[…the Chinese government periodically engages in systematic crackdowns in Xinjiang in order to prevent any separatist movements from gaining steam. The aforementioned 1997 riots broke out largely as a response to the Strike Hard movement launched in 1996 as a national anti-crime campaign. In Xinjiang this morphed into a movement against separatists and their sympathizers, in which “thousands were arrested and detained, some for short periods as a warning, others for longer in labor camps.” As part of the Strike Hard campaign, unregistered mosques and madrassas, Islamic religious schools, were shut down as illegal and books and other media containing Islamic material not approved by the Chinese Islamic Association was seized. After the 1997 the pace of arrests, trials and executions increased. For the sake of comparison it is imperative to note that this campaign had intensified even before the September 11 terrorist attacks in 2001. The U.S. Department of State’s Annual Country Reports on Human Rights Practices for 2000 cites numerous incidents of human rights violations in Xinjiang, including demolitions of mosques and a lack of respect for religious freedom and inhumane treatment of and execution of political prisoners.

…Beijing claims that more than 1,000 Uigher separatists trained in camps under the direction of Osama bin Laden, creating the need for such extreme measures. Sources have suggested that more than three thousand Uighers have been detained since September 11. Other reports have indicated an unwillingness of the Chinese government to allow Ramadan fasting and the wearing of headscarves by Uigher women. Beijing has also requested that 8,000 imams in charge of the state-sanctioned mosques take steps to avoid “political and ideological confusion” by participating in a re-education campaign in which they will attend seminars on religious and political policies as well as the Chinese version of the history of Xinjiang. Perhaps the most serious accusation of human rights abuses deals with executions of political prisoners on the grounds of such crimes as “trying to split the country.”

At least 25 Uighers have been executed this year [2001] and scores more are waiting on death row, say people who track these executions in the local news media. They say the number is probably much higher because the government in August stopped publicizing most of the executions, which Uighers say are part of a larger effort to suppress legitimate dissent and accelerate the ethnic group’s assimilation into the country’s larger Han population.]


Now you can say many things about the Chinese government, but you have to admit that they know how to deal with these ahmedmadani types.

No wonder ahmedmadani types appreciate the Chinese ``brothers`` so much. The only thing they respect is a rod rammed up their rear end.

:-)

Ahmedmadani....you are obviously a nut case. And a semi-literate geriatric.

Over the last decade , India`s GDP growth rate p.a. has been second only to that of China`s. India has averaged an economic growth rate of 6% over the last 10 years , while Pakistan`s growth rate in this period was 4%. Last year India grew at 8.5% and this year at 7.5%.

Pakistan claims to have registered an 8.4% growth rate this year - which is doubtful , but even if true it remains to be seen whether this rate can be sustained for any longer.

Also , India has a much bigger economic base than Pakistan...almost 10 times larger....so its easier for a smaller country with a small economic base like Pakistan to register quick GDP growth rates once ot twice. For your information , the fastest growing economy this year is Iraq..whose GDP grew at 50% !!

with 2.5% landmass of earth and 16% world population means a big slum of india.
Pakistan has much better stastics in this matter. Also booming economy and stock markets , 600 million per year help from usa ( compared to 37 million dollars for india), great leadership of City banker the problems are arising of too fast growth rate. India has exactly opposite problems. I hope Pakistan can handle problems of too high growth rates and India can handle slow growth rates.Pakistan rate of growth is second highest only exceeded by brother country of China.

i have an anecdote on the sprawl issue. near my parents house, a sqautter colony of migrant workers who built the built the area around rose. it grew hap-hazardly, and was known den for hooch manufacture and safe-house for ``tadipar`` criminals (criminals who were on police hit-lists). over time everyone wondered when will the growth stop. eventually, the ``colony`` became more pucca and was normalized with water, electricity by the local shivsena guy and so rose yet onother Ambedkar Nagar. Interestingly, the spread halted immediately. Nomalized denizens simply would not allow any newcomers from settling and sharing their water and electricity. they now obey compund walls, and use ``sulabh`` latrines, and everyone around is comfortable with this equilibrium.

i dont know about the moral of the story.

Ajeya, satyamvada:

The NDA lost not only in AP and TN but also in Delhi, Haryana, Punjab, UP, Maharashtra and even in Gujarat.

tvarad:

That may be a solution for Maharashtra and India but not for Mumbai. Cities thrive on their dynamism - they either grow or stagnate, the way it happened in Kolkota.

What`s the point of this discussion anyway? As far as I know - the italian b!tch has already sabotaged the Mumbai makover plan - commies have already struck, it`s over. Once again - in the name of the poor - the commies have made sure that Indians continue to live in filth.

This debate is futile.

I meant to say ``..and even the poorer economic sections gained``.

Re: #105 by satyamvada

[NDA lost seats because it failed totally in AP and Tamilnadu.]

That is exactly right. Anyone who followed the vote counts knows that. And Vajpayee also said that several times on TV after the elections. BUt then everything got drowned in the propaganda.

The public will believe anything, if repeated enough number of times.

However, the above sentence is not directed against Dost-Mitter. He probably did not follow it closely, and just listened to the subsequent reports. It is to his credit that he mentioned the truth - that the economy did extermely well under the NDA, and even the poorer economic sections gained also.

Dost-Mitter wrote:
``While the lot of the poor people actually improved during the NDA rule, the lot of the middle and upper classes improved even more, so that the disparities increased.``

When a country becomes rich, disparities always increase !! If everyone got rich
the same amount - what is the incentive for entrepreneurship and innovation ?
The amount of disparity in the United States is huuuge....
Have you seen what percentage of citizens pays the most taxes ?
Disparity is a foolish and useless measure - but left wingers and commies use it as
a tool to create alarm.


Also , it is total bullshit to say that it was the India shining campaign that caused NDA
defeat. That is not true.
NDA lost seats because it failed totally in AP and Tamilnadu.
AP because of Telengana campaign and in Tamilnadu because the DMK and PMK
joined hands. Look up the seats that were lost. The percentage shift in votes is
small - but in a winner takes all election - it appears as if some large shift has
happened. Look up the election commission website.

Khamkhwa...India is a country of 1.1 billion people...if even a `minority` or 10% of the population is seen to be well-to-do ...thats 110 million...quite a number...

I was reading an interesting article by an economist this morning which said that removing poverty is not a rocket science...it is much harder!

How true! In developing a rocket you have to use some known principles and a number of limited vairables with predictable effects. Not so when you are dealing with human beings and the economic laws which work in mysterious ways. Sometimes back, I pointed out to a graph on poverty which showed that poverty in India went down in the same years when economic dispartities increased. This was perhpaps one of the reasons for the defeat of the NDA govt. While the lot of the poor people actually improved during the NDA rule, the lot of the middle and upper classes improved even more, so that the disparities increased. The India Shining campaign merely rubbed salt into the wounds of those who were feeling envious of those who were enjoying a style of life they could see everyday on their panchayati TVs but could not even dream of.

Take the case of Mumbai. If the bleeding hearts have their way and no curb is placed on people coming to the city while nothing is done to improve the creadking infrastructure, what will happen to the poor? Mumbai will lose its attraction for investors who are already migrating to more welcoming places like Chennai, Noida, Gurgaon and Pune. This will hurt the poor more than anyone else in Mumbai, and none more so than the slum dwellers. On the other hand, if they are relocated at a distance in govt. subsidised janata flats (25-30 feet, I believe) and there is good infrastructure to bring them to town for their jobs, they will be better off in the long run. Otherwise, it will be the same road to hell paved with noble intentions.

Re: # 101

``Mumbai will lose its attraction for investors who are already migrating to more welcoming places like Chennai, Noida, Gurgaon and Pune. This will hurt the poor more than anyone else in Mumbai, and none more so than the slum dwellers``

The solution to Bombay`s problems is to create other job centres in the state and indeed the country. This will ease the pressure on the city and that can only be a good thing. Same goes for other metros and cities like Bangalore which are bursting at the seams with people coming in trying to seek their El Dorado.

How then would Mumbai lose? And how would it hurt the poor? They will migrate to greener pastures, that`s all.

``What about the poor ? ``

Everybody takes care of himself or herself. Rich , poor , whatever. The `poor` can f#ck itself as far as I am concerned. Anybody shedding crocodile tears , talking about doing this and that for somebody is a total hypocrite. As long as I am not `poor` , I`m happy. Those who think its okay for the `poor` to encroach upon public property or properties of `rich` people , should first give away for free their houses, jewellery and vehicles to the `poor`.

Cayenne,

You are absolutely correct on the NGO crowd - they are a bunch of parasites.
The only reason for a ``do-gooder`` ngo to exist is if there are supposed `victims`.
So, every NGO has no incentive to help in reduction of victims for the long
term - they are only into perpetuating dependency so that they can justify their own
existence.

``Commie bashing is very easy. It is also an old game. I myself have indulged in it often on this very site. But it has been 15 years since India rejected socialism and accepted free market. Isn`t it about time we stopped using socialists and communists as scapegoats? ``

India has only rejected the extreme version of socialism. India is still pretty much a socialist state with a closed economy which is by and large controlled by the polity and the bureaucracy.. Majority of the people of India will continue to be impoverished in varius degrees as long as this is the case.