Being Imrana

#247 Dalit

Do you really believe that most hindus agree with these nonsensical rules from 1500+ years ago? And that ``brahmins`` and ``kshatriyas`` are sitting around making conspiracies to rule others today?? If so, you live in a world of your own imagination.

The reality is that 80% of the caste-based violence is between groups who belong to the lower castes. In other words, backward group X attacks backward group Y for some reason, usually economic. Why is this happening and how can it be ended? But I would bet you are completely disinterested in this issue.

I have another relevant story for you. Recently, a group of friends and I raised funds to help with education in India, focusiing on elementary education. We spent some time researching organizations to work with and found an astonishing thing: there was NOT a single ``dalit`` organization working on this issue. We then sent letters and e-mails to several dalit groups and did not receive a single reply. Literacy is the BIGGEST barrier to self-empowerment and self-improvement and it is really surprising that it has such a low-profile in this community. I bet you have no interest whatever on this issue.

Ref ana #236

[mohar:

i`m not arguing with anything you`ve said `cept to point out one thing: a) britain is not necessarily the oldest democracy. i thought that ``honor`` belonged to someone else.]

Iceland and Isle of Man claim to have parliaments older than Britain`s..

``I`ve come to believe that there is nothing completely ``sacred`` /``holy`` and ``unquestionable`` in either Hinduism or its mythologies..``

Why only hinduism ? Same applies to every single religion.

Re: # 255

````I`ve come to believe that there is nothing completely ``sacred`` /``holy`` and ``unquestionable`` in either Hinduism or its mythologies..``

Why only hinduism ? Same applies to every single religion..``

True.. I was replying to Dalit.. the context is with reference to Hinduism. It applies to all.. One good thing in Hinduism and Christianity is that you can expect to stay alive after raising those questions, but alas the ``religion of peace`` doesn`t give that privilege.. :-))

Dalit:

If you are a real one, I do support you. I have Dalit relatives and many of my close friends are Dalits.. As I was just slightly above Dalits in the caste hierarchy.. :-))

I`ve come to believe that there is nothing completely ``sacred`` /``holy`` and ``unquestionable`` in either Hinduism or its mythologies..

It`s good that you are pointing out the flaws in various thousandas of years old ``smritis`` and ``mythologies``. It`s all good. The anomalies are corrected to a large extent though there maybe still work to do in remtoe rural areas..

You should also take note that the ``Dalit`` leader Mayawati in Uttar Pradesh, now trying to woo Brahmins into their fold.. That`s the power of democracy. It gives power or atleast enough clout to the traditionally oppressed folks.. Now the tables have turned..

So it`s kinda boring and repetitive to use the same age old ``manu-smritis`` to attack Hinduism.. Maybe you need some other stick to beat with..

One kind advice.. Don`t associate yourself with Muslims :-)) .. (Christians are good though).. They (or actually their ideology) are hated the world over and aligning with them would malign your cause too..

southasian...when I said `dalit eat shit` , I specifically meant this anonymous poster who goes by the name of `dalit`. I have nothing against `lower caste` hindus. Infact my uncle is married to a dalit woman.

Re: # 252 One of your uncles also needs to marry a muslim woman. Just joking...

Re: # 254 ,

Actually there is this really hot chick in my class who just happens to have a muslim name (completely westernised).....although its too early to contemplate `marriage` , there are other things I intend to do to her in the forthcoming semester.. ;-)

Re: # 256 So you can coexist with Muslims after all. All these guys take your utterances seriouly. You are just seriously naughty. Haha

Dalit: Broadly your posts cover two areas.
i) Mythology
ii) The ills of Hindu society

Mythology needs no comments.

As for the ills of Hindu society, we are working towards it. Nobody persecuted Dr. Ambedkar for his views calling his views blasphemous to the best of my knowledge. Instead he was chosen to write the Indian constitution. These ills continue in various forms and various degrees even today, but the state and society in general continue to correct and improve itself. Criticism is the seed for progress. We should encourage it and learn from it.

Mike: For the reasons cited above I don`t agree with your comments.

Re: #247 by Dalit

But Hindus do not respect and adore pedophiles.

Why do you admire and respect pedophiles?

dalit eat shit hehehehehe

In Hindu community, the basic duty of every individual is determined by his caste. The Brahman is the rightful possessor of the Veda and is the chief of the whole creation. He has the exclusive right to become a priest. It is through his benevolence that other mortals enjoy life.
The Kshatriya is described as the dispenser of justice, particularly as the one whose duty it is to punish law-breakers; he exercises the civil power and to his tender mercies the Brahmans could hand over law- breakers. He has to see that the various castes attend to their prescribed duties; but in doing this work he must abide by the decisions of the Brahmans.
The Vashya comprises the merchant, the agriculturist, and the keeper of cattle. His chief work is keeping cattle.
The Sudra has been created to serve the other three castes (i.e., the fair-skinned Aryans). ``He is spoken of as a slave, his property, as well as his person, being at the disposal of his master.`` [Wilkins, Modern Hinduism, London, 1975, p. 247.]
The Untouchable (Dalit) is to perform the most unpleasant tasks: cleaning lavatories, carrying night soil, skinning carcasses and making footwear.

SOCIAL, ECONOMIC & OTHER ASPECTS
The social, economic and other aspects of life are controlled by the caste regulation. Caste differences are largely invoked while arranging marriages and eating together. For rural Indians, castes shape almost every aspect of their lives: the food they eat and who can cook it; how they bathe; the colour of their clothes; the length of a sari (cloth worn by a woman); how the dhoti (cloth worn by a Hindu man) is tied; which way a man`s moustaches are trimmed and whether he can carry an umbrella. Everything is determined by caste and nothing is left to chance.
Caste regulations formulated by Manu are discriminatory in nature; they favour the Aryan Hindus and discriminate against the so-called low-caste Hindus. In teaching the duties of the 1ow-caste people concerning marriage, Manu declares that a man aged thirty may marry a girl of twelve, and a man of twenty-four years may marry a girl of eight. He, however, is very particular about the marriage regulations of Brahmans. A Brahman must avoid marrying a girl whose family has produced no sons, that which has thick hair on the body, or is afflicted with hereditary disease. Let him choose for his wife a girl whose form has no defect, who has an agreeable manner, who walks gracefully like a young elephant, and whose body has exquisite softness [ Ibid., p. 196.].
Punishment for offence is also determined by discriminatory caste regulations. A crime against a man of his own caste by a Sudra is venial offence; but a similar offence committed against a man belonging to so- called higher caste is proportionately greater. If a Sudra through pride dares to give instructions to priests concerning their duty, hot oil will be dropped into his mouth and ears. A high-caste man having intercourse with a Sudra woman is to be banished; a Sudra having intercourse with a woman of the superior castes is to be put to death. Whatever a Brahman`s offence, the king must on no account put him to death; he may, at the most, banish him, allowing him to take his property with him. Further, in case of wrongdoing against him, a Brahman need not approach the civil court, he is free to take vengeance upon the offender [See Wilkins, 1975, pp. 239-40; Oman, p. 52.]

INFERIORITY OF THE DALIT
The so-called Dalits (Untouchables) are the most pitiable victims of the obnoxious and pernicious caste system. Manu has little to say about them. He affirms that the members of three castes, the Brahman, the Kshatriya, and the Vashya, are twice-born; the fourth, the Sudra, once-born; there is no fifth.` All others are outcastes. The common name Dasyas (slaves) is applied to them all. [Wilkins: Modern Hinduism, London: 1975, p. 263]

The treatment accorded to the Dalit is simply inhuman. According to Manu Smriti, `Outcasted persons have no share in inheritance.`[ John C. Oman, The Brahmans, Theists, and Muslims of India, Delhi, 1973, p. 47.] The orthodox Brahmans still believe, if the shadow of a Dalit falls on them, they are polluted and will have to purify them by sprinkling over themse1ves water from the holy river, the Ganges [F.M. Sandeela, Islam, Christianity and Hinduism, Delhi, 1990, pp. 69-70]. `You may breed cows and dogs in your house,` wrote Mr. M.C. Raja. `You may drink the urine of cows and swallow cowdung to expiate your sins, but you shall not approach an Adi Dravida [i.e., original Indians: Dalits, Sudras, tribal people].

These people are still denied the use of public wells and tanks and at the same time stigmatized as unclean. They are still kept out of schools and colleges maintained by public funds and at the same time despised as ignorant and illiterate. They are still Shut out from temples, and yet branded as ungodly and unfit to associate with. For access to public roads and even for spaces to bury the dead, they have to depend much on the capricious benevolence of their caste-Hindu neighbours. [Swami Dharma Theertha, History of Hindu Imperialism, (Madras: 1992), pp. 184-85, quoted from P. Chidambaram Pillai`s Right of Temple Entry, p. 150.]

WOMEN`S IN HINDUISM
The Brahmin media made a big campaign recently out of the Shah Banu case and they blew it out all proportion. They implied that lslam restricted the freedom of women. Let us compare the positions of the Hindu women and the Muslim women. See the following facts for comparison and then try to bring these Brahmins to their senses. Inequity and degradation of women are sanctified in the Hindu religion.
Manu Smriti says
``Never trust a woman.
Never sit alone with a woman even if it may be Your mother, she may tempt you Do not sit alone with your daughter, she may tempt you.
Do not sit alone with your sister, she may tempt you

Re: # 247 Did I miss the love affair somewhere?

Dalit..hindus are sexy people...not asexual like you and your mommy`s husband...hehehehe

Dalit...was your mommy a virgin ? hehehehe...