Being Imrana

#16 ``Why is it so hard to just put the blame squarely on the stinkymullahs and get along with the process of reform that obviously a lot of good Muslims could do with? ``
I second that...

``Unless ordinary Muslims- the kind that don`t walk out of meetings at work so that they can pray 5 times a day, or don`t shove their victimhood in your face at the slightest provocation- unless these people tell the Deobandis and others of their ilk squarely where they can shove their stupid fatwas, nothing is going to happen. More power them! ``
and that too..

Caught my eye:

``The raped woman is a victim and cannot be punished, unless it is proven that she had encouraged, or tempted, or otherwise facilitated her own rape.``

You are a sick man! A woman`s is outraged and all you think about is whether she abetted it in any way. If we were to follow this line of argument, there will be no woman who`ll be able to step out of her house without getting assualted by savages of your ilk. Even if the woman is wearing salwar, saree or ghaghra choli, there will surely be some people who`ll find their libido titillated and blood rushing to their groins because of her appearance. These people can then rape the woman and justify the criminal act by saying that the victim abetted it by wearing provocative clothes. What a perverted, asinine and skewed logic!

And for God`s sake don`t ever use the word facilitate in the same sentence as rape, decent people will throw up when they read such pathetic sentence formation.

Imrana is more a proof of the failure of the state than a failure of Islam in India.

What a lame excuse! The Indian state may not be physically lifting people out of their homes and sending them to schools, but at least it doesn`t discourage people from getting educated. In fact, if you`ve watched Doordarshan, as I`m sure you might have, there are regular advertisements specially aimed at the rural poor exhorting them to get educated. There are government schools all over India, and though the standard of education is not something that can be bandied about, there have been students from these schools who have made it big. I am a product of the government schooling system up until college.

What else can the government do? Do you want it to force people to go to schools? Something akin to Sanjay Gandhi`s forced sterilization campaign during the infamous emergency?

As to your other gem, I wanted to respond to it, but rahulmal beat me to it.

Re: # 18

Sorry for not being able to make the point clear here.

The idea here is to talk about the circumstances as rape is an extremely complex occurrence. One is talking about the larger situational constructs that allow rape to happen.

But you are taking the issue too far.

``And for God`s sake don`t ever use the word facilitate in the same sentence as rape, decent people will throw up when they read such pathetic sentence formation.``

I didn`t know some Chowk readers were laguagewise so sophisticated that a pathetic sentence formation would make them throw up. Thanks for enlightening me.

assumed the proportions of a national crisis in India

....What the???.Where do these two-bits get their information from, or do they `see` through slanted eyes??.Slanted eyes it must be.This was nothing more than another episode in the bizarre and wondeful kaleidoscope that is Bharat.We learn and we move on.

My opinion is that it remains a domestic matter till they come out and seek redressal from societal law. And even after that if they go back and settle their dispute then arun jaitleys, deoband mullahs, law, police and the courts have no business to interfere.

Since the author mentioned Nisha Sharma: What if she had decided to go ahead with the marriage and withdrawn her statement? Do the courts and the police have locus standi then? So..

Re: # 19

Harish Bhai, I am not against government schools. And the point I am making it is that the government should do more than just give ``chalo padhayen, kuchh kar dikhayen`` ads. It has been proved that mere literacy is not enough. And in India, as per one research study, most of the literacy figures are more true on paper than on the ground. District primary eduaction programmes are being run but it will take some years before the results can be seen. I am emphasizing on education and there are ways to give incentive to people to educate themselves and their children, irrespective of caste and creed. And how can you compare education with sterilization? This is not a joke or a place for cheap talk.

As of Bahul beating you on that ``that gem`` of mine, should I congratulate Rahul?

Actually this statement by the writer Mian Anjum Saheb is a masterpiece >>

``Islam takes a very serious view of rape. It penalizes the rapist even with death, depending on the circumstances. The raped woman is a victim and cannot be punished, unless it is proven that she had encouraged, or tempted, or otherwise facilitated her own rape.``

That is very true. Islam, as we all know , is a religion of peace. Islam treats women very well. Infact women enjoy more rights in Islam than in any other religion. Islam objects to rape . Islam particularly hates rapists. So all the raped muslim woman has to do is to produce 4 adult muslim witnesses to her rape and without further ado , as per The Holy Quran and The Holy Shariah , is stoned to death.

If the muslim woman is not able to produce 4 adult muslim witnesses to her rape , she will be deemed to have , as Mian Anjum Saheb put it so eloquently , ``encouraged , or tempted , or facilitated her own rape`` ....and stoned to death instead.

Why do we assume that ``the poor`` lack sense, a sophisticated understanding of justice, or fair play? Plenty of well funded clerical institutions issue edicts that are questionable at the very least.

Writer, you have intentionally chosen to ignore the scaffolding against which Rushdie built his argument-and that is the patriarchical codes of ``honor`` and ``shame``. Why?

#23 by umbertoeco

[And how can you compare education with sterilization? This is not a joke or a place for cheap talk.]

Yaar, I was not comparing education with sterilization. I was just asking if education be enforced as forcefully as Sanjay Gandhi had espoused the two-child (?) norm by forcibly sterilizing men who had more than two children. IMHO, the government can only encourage literacy, not enforce it. AFAIK, not even governments in the West do it.

Actually this statement by the writer Mian Anjum Saheb is a masterpiece >>

``Islam takes a very serious view of rape. It penalizes the rapist even with death, depending on the circumstances. The raped woman is a victim and cannot be punished, unless it is proven that she had encouraged, or tempted, or otherwise facilitated her own rape.``

That is very true. Islam, as we all know , is a religion of peace. Islam treats women very well. Infact women enjoy more rights in Islam than in any other religion. Islam objects to rape . Islam particularly hates rapists. So all the raped muslim woman has to do is to produce 4 adult muslim witnesses to her rape and without further ado , as per The Holy Quran and The Holy Shariah , her rapist is stoned to death.

If the muslim woman is not able to produce 4 adult muslim witnesses to her rape , she will be deemed to have , as the writer so eloquently put it , ``encouraged , or tempted , or facilitated her own rape`` ....and stoned to death instead.

Re: # 21

Cayenne, what the???

The episode has taken a lot of media space and attention in the form of news stories, cover stories, editorials, op-eds, demand for uniform civil code, and TV crews going to people and asking their opinion. Of course, by national crisis I don`t mean a constitutional breakdown or a state of emergency.

So, now the enlightened ones here have started parsing my sentences. Please go ahead and find more. If one bits like you don`t have better things to do, what the ???

There is nothing new about the diatribe against the Deoband seminary.


di·a·tribe
n.

A bitter, abusive denunciation.


Poor deobandis....abused by that evil Salman Rushdie...

The media had a hot issue on its plate.

yup...it`s not the reality that`s the problem, it`s the reporting of the reality....just like the media over-focuses on gujrat when thousands of people die in traffic accidents in India every month...next time some chaddis do a sati, we should blame the media...

Muslims need education and jobs to come out of their ghettoized lives.

No shit sherlock...I thought the resolution of the palestenian issue would make things a-ok...

Imrana is more a proof of the failure of the state

The state isn`t obliged to provide for poor muslims any more than it`s obliged to provide for poor hindus....
Opportunities, or the lack thereof, are the same for all poor people, hindu and muslim...you know...third world dump and all....

Re: # 25

Rushdie has already established that in his writing. I digressed from that point as I wanted to make another point. Thanks any way.

Re: # 27

Thanks for your enlightened over-simplification. And shall I post it twice?

Re: # 28

umbertoeco

So you admit you do stretch the truth to suit your fantasies?.And your fantasy is??.