Idolizing the Koran
A Shiraz July 29, 2005
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#98 Posted by Emancipator on August 21, 2005 10:11:03 pm
I hope chowk staff will edit the final paper with the right spelling of the Quran (as understood by most Muslims today) I have none to blame but myself (the MS Word dictionary contains Koran so I carelessly used that spelling). Allah knows that I had no malicious intent and I hope he will forgive me.
Idolizing the Quran
Idolatry arises from an exaggerated respect translating into a misguided religious zeal. This adoration or zeal is directed towards an entity other than God. Muslims suspect Christians were guilty of this crime when they elevated a Prophet to the status of a God. The Hindus are accused of engaging in such idol worship to the promiscuous point that today they have innumerable Gods. Shiite Muslims are accused of idolatry when they elevate the status of Ali to an unusual degree. But there is an idolization common to most Muslims: idolizing the Quran.
Words printed on paper are elevated to such a height that they are folded into “Tawiz” and hung around the believers to protect them from disease and the ‘evil eye’. Such are the abnormal expectations attached to the printed Quran that believers often dissolve it in water and drink it as medicine. Unfortunately it is often the case that the wearer and the one who prepares this ‘holy paper’ or ‘medicine’ are quite often unaware of the meaning of the words.
Other examples of this exaggerated respect as demonstrated by some is kissing the Quran, pressing it against one’s eyes, avoiding pointing one’s feet towards it and sitting below the position of the book. Lastly an act I often found irrational is the elaborate measures taken to burn or discard all Arabic words that look even remotely ornate or Quran like.
It is not like the scholars of Islam have been ignorant of such idolatry. Many shake their heads over it, shrug their shoulders and exclaim with consternation and blame it in on the times. Others have waged righteous war against all idolatry. Illustration of such valiant acts is their prohibition of approaching the Prophet’s tomb. This was enacted to prohibit people from praying at the tomb, kissing the tomb and to prevent tying threads and prayer requests.
Another desperate action is the bulldozing of “Jannatul Baqi” (a graveyard holding the greatest martyrs and saints of Islam) to prevent people from kissing tombstones or stealing the sand for purposes of selling them as holy relics and remedies.
Men may say, ‘but what is the harm in such acts of devotion?’ Besides the fact that this is idolatry and therefore a sin, historically Muslims have suffered gravely because they have elevated their Holy Book to irrational heights.
Case in point is the day when a prototype of the Gutenberg press was presented to the Caliph of Turkey for purposes of printing the Quran. The Gutenberg press as we all know is responsible for the resurgence of Europe from the Dark Ages more than any other invention. When such an opportunity was presented to Muslims before it ever made an impression in Europe the scribes of the Quran rejected this machine and denounced it as an “instrument of the devil”.
The rationale of the scribes was that since the printing press did not perform ablution before ‘writing’ the Quran it was therefore unfit but moreover it was devilish for printing the Quran without performing an ablution.
One sees countless more side affects of such adoration with the riots and public unrest that erupts throughout the Islamic world. Most recently there was the incident of a village Doctor in Pakistan who was lynched because someone accused him of throwing a page of the Holy Book in the sewers. After the lynching the crowd went about destroying public infrastructure, looting shops and vandalizing taxpayer-sponsored property.
Remember idolatry arises not from hatred but an extreme of adoration and devotion. It is when you begin to love a human being more than you love God that you begin to commit idolatry. It is when you begin to love money more than God that you commit idolatry. It is when you begin to associate irrational zeal and passion to an aspect of religion or a religious icon is when you begin to commit a sin. It is when you misplace the source of your salvation be it money, the saints, books or the Prophet’s family when you begin to elevate something to the status of a God.
Besides it being a sin irrational zeal is a weakness that your foes will most certainly exploit. You have already seen evidence of self-destructive behavior amongst Muslims when a few socialists drew a picture of a pig and wrote “Mohammad” underneath. The resulting youth riots destroyed the fledgling and meager economy of that region. If you provide sensitive areas and “buttons” that are rooted in an unnecessary reverence your foes will most gladly press it and then watch with glee as you dance towards your destruction. Most importantly it is very easy for your foes to set you against your friends if you provide the world with simple interfaces into your psychology.
What then is the solution and what is the way forward?
As it is the Quran might as well be placed on an altar and worshipped or placed in a museum and admired from afar because few Muslims bother to understand it. I advocate reading the Quran and devouring it, use it like a Japanese citizen employs his English dictionary – let the pages get dog eared, let the cover become tattered, carry it everywhere and read it whenever you get the chance, be it at a bus stop or an airport terminal.
Currently Muslims bathe before touching the Quran, women undergoing their menses are not allowed to touch the book and if you accidentally break wind or have to rush to the bathroom then you must bathe all over again before touching the Quran. These are the symptoms of a reluctant student not the ways of a passionate seeker of revelation. Whoever has taught you these ways only wishes to formalize and ritualize your approach to a message that runs through your veins. Do not let them distance you from your salvation!
Such is the fear amongst Muslims of the Quran that they are afraid of attempting to understand it on their own lest they are misled. They feel that if they must understand the Quran they must only do so through the help of the oft-controlling scholars and oft corrupt Imams of the Islamic world. Because they fail to take the initiative and explore the wonders of the Quran on their own they have come to the point where all understanding trickles down from a few blind (or partially blind) men. If you are going to be misled by reading the Quran you will be misled whether you go through an Imam or the Shaikh of the Harimain Sharifain. Why wait then for an Imam to lead you to what is the most important thing in your life? Pick up and read the book. Then honor the message not the papyrus, not the binding, not the elaborate illustration but the message for it will be your understanding of the message which will save you not your elaborate displays of devotion.
Muslims need to understand that the meaning of the words in the Quran is more important than the words printed on paper. The understanding of the Quran is more important than reciting the Quran with elaborate ululations (recited often without understanding). The translation of the Quran is of greater importance than memorizing words one does not comprehend.
Perhaps of paramount importance is translating the Quran into the local dialects of the Islamic world because the message of the Quran should be transmitted and understood by everyone from the native Arabic speaker to the most pathetic farm boy in the Indus valley. This is precisely what Luther and William Tyndale envisioned for Europe and this is the secret to Europe’s resurgence. Christians, particularly the Protestant Christians read their Bible, understand it and discuss it with their fellow believers. They carry their Bibles as they carry their wallet, close to their hearts an ever-ready savior.
A hurdle to understanding the Quran is its arcane Arabic. Some may argue that it’s better for people to learn Arabic rather than corrupting the Quran by translating it into a native dialect. The truth is that there is no end to claiming that “translating the Quran will corrupt its meaning”. God has so sealed the hearts of Muslims that they refuse to understand the Quran, even in Arabic. For it is an oft-heard claim of Arab speakers that they don’t understand the Quran because the language is ancient and therefore beyond comprehension. If this is the case then the Islamic world has lost the message of the Quran even for the native Arab speaker.
But even if we were all one billion of us to learn ancient Arabic as spoken in the dialect of the tribe of Quraish, instituting Arabic as the language of the Islamic world also poses the threat of squashing all innovation and creativity and personal respect, identity and pride of all the nations under Islam from the Bengali to the Turk.
When the words of the Quran become alive for her people, nay when the words come alive for all people then Muslims may expect a revitalization of their fortunes and a return to the glory days of the Companions of the Prophet Mohammad. Moreover when Muslims dare to understand not just the Quran but the Torah and the Bible they will most certainly regain what they seem to have lost and cannot attain. May we all attain our heavens!
Idolizing the Quran
Idolatry arises from an exaggerated respect translating into a misguided religious zeal. This adoration or zeal is directed towards an entity other than God. Muslims suspect Christians were guilty of this crime when they elevated a Prophet to the status of a God. The Hindus are accused of engaging in such idol worship to the promiscuous point that today they have innumerable Gods. Shiite Muslims are accused of idolatry when they elevate the status of Ali to an unusual degree. But there is an idolization common to most Muslims: idolizing the Quran.
Words printed on paper are elevated to such a height that they are folded into “Tawiz” and hung around the believers to protect them from disease and the ‘evil eye’. Such are the abnormal expectations attached to the printed Quran that believers often dissolve it in water and drink it as medicine. Unfortunately it is often the case that the wearer and the one who prepares this ‘holy paper’ or ‘medicine’ are quite often unaware of the meaning of the words.
Other examples of this exaggerated respect as demonstrated by some is kissing the Quran, pressing it against one’s eyes, avoiding pointing one’s feet towards it and sitting below the position of the book. Lastly an act I often found irrational is the elaborate measures taken to burn or discard all Arabic words that look even remotely ornate or Quran like.
It is not like the scholars of Islam have been ignorant of such idolatry. Many shake their heads over it, shrug their shoulders and exclaim with consternation and blame it in on the times. Others have waged righteous war against all idolatry. Illustration of such valiant acts is their prohibition of approaching the Prophet’s tomb. This was enacted to prohibit people from praying at the tomb, kissing the tomb and to prevent tying threads and prayer requests.
Another desperate action is the bulldozing of “Jannatul Baqi” (a graveyard holding the greatest martyrs and saints of Islam) to prevent people from kissing tombstones or stealing the sand for purposes of selling them as holy relics and remedies.
Men may say, ‘but what is the harm in such acts of devotion?’ Besides the fact that this is idolatry and therefore a sin, historically Muslims have suffered gravely because they have elevated their Holy Book to irrational heights.
Case in point is the day when a prototype of the Gutenberg press was presented to the Caliph of Turkey for purposes of printing the Quran. The Gutenberg press as we all know is responsible for the resurgence of Europe from the Dark Ages more than any other invention. When such an opportunity was presented to Muslims before it ever made an impression in Europe the scribes of the Quran rejected this machine and denounced it as an “instrument of the devil”.
The rationale of the scribes was that since the printing press did not perform ablution before ‘writing’ the Quran it was therefore unfit but moreover it was devilish for printing the Quran without performing an ablution.
One sees countless more side affects of such adoration with the riots and public unrest that erupts throughout the Islamic world. Most recently there was the incident of a village Doctor in Pakistan who was lynched because someone accused him of throwing a page of the Holy Book in the sewers. After the lynching the crowd went about destroying public infrastructure, looting shops and vandalizing taxpayer-sponsored property.
Remember idolatry arises not from hatred but an extreme of adoration and devotion. It is when you begin to love a human being more than you love God that you begin to commit idolatry. It is when you begin to love money more than God that you commit idolatry. It is when you begin to associate irrational zeal and passion to an aspect of religion or a religious icon is when you begin to commit a sin. It is when you misplace the source of your salvation be it money, the saints, books or the Prophet’s family when you begin to elevate something to the status of a God.
Besides it being a sin irrational zeal is a weakness that your foes will most certainly exploit. You have already seen evidence of self-destructive behavior amongst Muslims when a few socialists drew a picture of a pig and wrote “Mohammad” underneath. The resulting youth riots destroyed the fledgling and meager economy of that region. If you provide sensitive areas and “buttons” that are rooted in an unnecessary reverence your foes will most gladly press it and then watch with glee as you dance towards your destruction. Most importantly it is very easy for your foes to set you against your friends if you provide the world with simple interfaces into your psychology.
What then is the solution and what is the way forward?
As it is the Quran might as well be placed on an altar and worshipped or placed in a museum and admired from afar because few Muslims bother to understand it. I advocate reading the Quran and devouring it, use it like a Japanese citizen employs his English dictionary – let the pages get dog eared, let the cover become tattered, carry it everywhere and read it whenever you get the chance, be it at a bus stop or an airport terminal.
Currently Muslims bathe before touching the Quran, women undergoing their menses are not allowed to touch the book and if you accidentally break wind or have to rush to the bathroom then you must bathe all over again before touching the Quran. These are the symptoms of a reluctant student not the ways of a passionate seeker of revelation. Whoever has taught you these ways only wishes to formalize and ritualize your approach to a message that runs through your veins. Do not let them distance you from your salvation!
Such is the fear amongst Muslims of the Quran that they are afraid of attempting to understand it on their own lest they are misled. They feel that if they must understand the Quran they must only do so through the help of the oft-controlling scholars and oft corrupt Imams of the Islamic world. Because they fail to take the initiative and explore the wonders of the Quran on their own they have come to the point where all understanding trickles down from a few blind (or partially blind) men. If you are going to be misled by reading the Quran you will be misled whether you go through an Imam or the Shaikh of the Harimain Sharifain. Why wait then for an Imam to lead you to what is the most important thing in your life? Pick up and read the book. Then honor the message not the papyrus, not the binding, not the elaborate illustration but the message for it will be your understanding of the message which will save you not your elaborate displays of devotion.
Muslims need to understand that the meaning of the words in the Quran is more important than the words printed on paper. The understanding of the Quran is more important than reciting the Quran with elaborate ululations (recited often without understanding). The translation of the Quran is of greater importance than memorizing words one does not comprehend.
Perhaps of paramount importance is translating the Quran into the local dialects of the Islamic world because the message of the Quran should be transmitted and understood by everyone from the native Arabic speaker to the most pathetic farm boy in the Indus valley. This is precisely what Luther and William Tyndale envisioned for Europe and this is the secret to Europe’s resurgence. Christians, particularly the Protestant Christians read their Bible, understand it and discuss it with their fellow believers. They carry their Bibles as they carry their wallet, close to their hearts an ever-ready savior.
A hurdle to understanding the Quran is its arcane Arabic. Some may argue that it’s better for people to learn Arabic rather than corrupting the Quran by translating it into a native dialect. The truth is that there is no end to claiming that “translating the Quran will corrupt its meaning”. God has so sealed the hearts of Muslims that they refuse to understand the Quran, even in Arabic. For it is an oft-heard claim of Arab speakers that they don’t understand the Quran because the language is ancient and therefore beyond comprehension. If this is the case then the Islamic world has lost the message of the Quran even for the native Arab speaker.
But even if we were all one billion of us to learn ancient Arabic as spoken in the dialect of the tribe of Quraish, instituting Arabic as the language of the Islamic world also poses the threat of squashing all innovation and creativity and personal respect, identity and pride of all the nations under Islam from the Bengali to the Turk.
When the words of the Quran become alive for her people, nay when the words come alive for all people then Muslims may expect a revitalization of their fortunes and a return to the glory days of the Companions of the Prophet Mohammad. Moreover when Muslims dare to understand not just the Quran but the Torah and the Bible they will most certainly regain what they seem to have lost and cannot attain. May we all attain our heavens!
#97 Posted by masanamuthu on August 6, 2005 6:48:21 pm
hamidm:
My comment in this board is to just let you know that I`m your fan.. Your ``Allah and Gabby`` series is too good.. A little bit of ridicule would go a long way in clearing up the current mess..
My comment in this board is to just let you know that I`m your fan.. Your ``Allah and Gabby`` series is too good.. A little bit of ridicule would go a long way in clearing up the current mess..
#91 Posted by dullabhatti on August 2, 2005 1:48:38 pm
#90
not really..allah is a lay back kind of guy who has gone really lazy after making to the top of the food chain...he is also over confident..he has this illusion that once he said something it is done right away and right way...so he does things and forgets...and goes back to booze and women...there are hundreds of 72 sets of them waiting in line....gabby on the other hand is a practical guy...very resourceful..has to be for his job...don`t know when allah will ask him to find whom in which cave....it is a tough job..we know with all the hi-tech gadgetry bush could not find OBL in 5 mile square in tora bora...gabby does that every day with closed eyes...so gabby knows the ground realities and is trying to convey that information to allah mian..but allah mian like a typical arab sheikh is too busy with his leisure and don`t want to listen..and admit he might have been wrong in the past.
frankly he too old to fix his mistakes now..time has left him behind....humans might have to clean themselves the mess his stubborn decisions left behind.
not really..allah is a lay back kind of guy who has gone really lazy after making to the top of the food chain...he is also over confident..he has this illusion that once he said something it is done right away and right way...so he does things and forgets...and goes back to booze and women...there are hundreds of 72 sets of them waiting in line....gabby on the other hand is a practical guy...very resourceful..has to be for his job...don`t know when allah will ask him to find whom in which cave....it is a tough job..we know with all the hi-tech gadgetry bush could not find OBL in 5 mile square in tora bora...gabby does that every day with closed eyes...so gabby knows the ground realities and is trying to convey that information to allah mian..but allah mian like a typical arab sheikh is too busy with his leisure and don`t want to listen..and admit he might have been wrong in the past.
frankly he too old to fix his mistakes now..time has left him behind....humans might have to clean themselves the mess his stubborn decisions left behind.
#93 Posted by teshah on August 2, 2005 3:01:24 pm
Re: # 91
I wonder what gabby is trying to find now in the caves when the Mullah of the Pak Land have put an end to this `nabuwwat` business. They think there is no more any need of this gabby business as there is already enough second hand material for them to carry on the business themselves till the dooms day. So both of them can go to sleep while the mullah does a roaring business with the terrible sword of blasphemy in their hands.
I wonder what gabby is trying to find now in the caves when the Mullah of the Pak Land have put an end to this `nabuwwat` business. They think there is no more any need of this gabby business as there is already enough second hand material for them to carry on the business themselves till the dooms day. So both of them can go to sleep while the mullah does a roaring business with the terrible sword of blasphemy in their hands.
#88 Posted by arstoo on August 1, 2005 10:26:13 pm
Dear Friends,
On every board whenever any confusion about anything arises peopele jump on that what prescribed and what is proscribed in Islam. etc etc. etc.
First test of the relegion is how it treats every human being. On this test Islam and Prohet fail miserably. Because they treat muslim woman diffrently than muslim man. And non muslim are treated worse than muslim woman.
Second test is how far the relegion or for that reason any group tolerates the critcal analysis. Islamist and Muslims are thw worst example of any tolrance.
Muslims seems to be suffering from paranoia and victim hood syndrome. In that mental frame their reasons and logic don`t have much rationality.
Before any body jumps on me I will quote Iqbal
Main khatkat hoon dil-e-yazdan main kantay ki tarah,
Toon faqat allha hoo, allah hoo, allah hoo
On every board whenever any confusion about anything arises peopele jump on that what prescribed and what is proscribed in Islam. etc etc. etc.
First test of the relegion is how it treats every human being. On this test Islam and Prohet fail miserably. Because they treat muslim woman diffrently than muslim man. And non muslim are treated worse than muslim woman.
Second test is how far the relegion or for that reason any group tolerates the critcal analysis. Islamist and Muslims are thw worst example of any tolrance.
Muslims seems to be suffering from paranoia and victim hood syndrome. In that mental frame their reasons and logic don`t have much rationality.
Before any body jumps on me I will quote Iqbal
Main khatkat hoon dil-e-yazdan main kantay ki tarah,
Toon faqat allha hoo, allah hoo, allah hoo
#87 Posted by dost_mittar on August 1, 2005 6:02:45 pm
teshah#84:
Hazoor, arz ye hai ke when one is a non-believer, like I am, one is not constrained by faith. To the faithful, the Qur`an is a word of God; to the unfaithful, it could seem to be HIM whispering in `his` ears whatever suited his purpose at a given time. For people like us, it is your favourite chacha`s couplet, Jaanata hooN teri janat ki haqeeqat lekin.....
As for the Canadian Immigration, they follow the practices of whatever society they are dealing with. Thus, from the subcontinent, they would require invitation cards, photographs, etc. for proof of wedding whereas people in other countries have to show only their marriage certificates for proof of marriage. Since Indian Muslim law presumably does not allow adoptions, any such adoption is suspiciously viewed as adoption of convenience solely for the purpose of obtaining immigration.
Hazoor, arz ye hai ke when one is a non-believer, like I am, one is not constrained by faith. To the faithful, the Qur`an is a word of God; to the unfaithful, it could seem to be HIM whispering in `his` ears whatever suited his purpose at a given time. For people like us, it is your favourite chacha`s couplet, Jaanata hooN teri janat ki haqeeqat lekin.....
As for the Canadian Immigration, they follow the practices of whatever society they are dealing with. Thus, from the subcontinent, they would require invitation cards, photographs, etc. for proof of wedding whereas people in other countries have to show only their marriage certificates for proof of marriage. Since Indian Muslim law presumably does not allow adoptions, any such adoption is suspiciously viewed as adoption of convenience solely for the purpose of obtaining immigration.
#86 Posted by stinger_kh on August 1, 2005 5:31:44 pm
We all started from worship and Quran now i don`t where we r going. Can any one enlighten the fact of worship and kissing of any object .
Re: # 43 referred on this issue
Re: # 43 referred on this issue
#89 Posted by hamidm2 on August 2, 2005 8:08:15 am
Re: # 86
stinger,
..... you can kiss anything and anyone your heart desires - just make sure the object of your desire is clean ...........
stinger,
..... you can kiss anything and anyone your heart desires - just make sure the object of your desire is clean ...........
#94 Posted by stinger_kh on August 2, 2005 5:42:59 pm
Re: # 89
hamidm ..... you can kiss anything and anyone your heart desires - just make sure the object of your desire is clean ...........then u can even kiss pus.. i don`t want to tangle this i am talking about holy objects. If u can kiss those objects as ur suggesting it to every one so can u plz refer me where it is written to kiss holy objects. There should be some respect for them, kissing an object can help its cause in doing so........
hamidm ..... you can kiss anything and anyone your heart desires - just make sure the object of your desire is clean ...........then u can even kiss pus.. i don`t want to tangle this i am talking about holy objects. If u can kiss those objects as ur suggesting it to every one so can u plz refer me where it is written to kiss holy objects. There should be some respect for them, kissing an object can help its cause in doing so........
#96 Posted by hamidm2 on August 2, 2005 8:29:43 pm
Re: # 94
stinger,
.... please make up your mind - do you want to kiss a holy object or not ?.......... it is okay either way, as long as you don`t hog the object and let other people give it a smooch too ....... it is also not a bad idea to avoid open mouth kissing to avoid all kinds of nasty communicable diseases ........... other than that i don`t think there is any harm in kissing stones, books, quadrupeds, the chaddar on a pir`s mazar, a holy man`s feet (as long as they are clean), etc. etc ......... kissing is not haram unless it leads to sex with the object of your desires .............
.... pucker up !
stinger,
.... please make up your mind - do you want to kiss a holy object or not ?.......... it is okay either way, as long as you don`t hog the object and let other people give it a smooch too ....... it is also not a bad idea to avoid open mouth kissing to avoid all kinds of nasty communicable diseases ........... other than that i don`t think there is any harm in kissing stones, books, quadrupeds, the chaddar on a pir`s mazar, a holy man`s feet (as long as they are clean), etc. etc ......... kissing is not haram unless it leads to sex with the object of your desires .............
.... pucker up !
#85 Posted by hamidm2 on August 1, 2005 5:27:16 pm
t,
...... i honestly believe that the day i can publish my ``allah & gabby`` series in pakistan and monty python gets to make ``life of al-gindi`` without burining down half of karachi and cairo, we will be fine ......... nobody has hijacked your religion (and mine ) other than the dour demons that rule our minds .............
Life`s a piece of shit,
When you look at it.
Life`s a laugh and death`s a joke. It`s true.
You`ll see it`s all a show.
Keep `em laughing as you go.
Just remember that the last laugh is on you.
And...
...... i honestly believe that the day i can publish my ``allah & gabby`` series in pakistan and monty python gets to make ``life of al-gindi`` without burining down half of karachi and cairo, we will be fine ......... nobody has hijacked your religion (and mine ) other than the dour demons that rule our minds .............
Life`s a piece of shit,
When you look at it.
Life`s a laugh and death`s a joke. It`s true.
You`ll see it`s all a show.
Keep `em laughing as you go.
Just remember that the last laugh is on you.
And...
#83 Posted by temporal on August 1, 2005 5:09:04 pm
hamidm:
you are in fine form with gabby...keep them coming!
as for claims of `religion of peace`...arey bhai in history more mayhem and destruction has been cause in the name of god and religion...
why single out islam?...on second thoughts forget i asked;)
like most folks not `enlightened` enough to select or create their religion i was born into one and am trying to learn and live with it from within...
otoh i did try to lure you to purchase an area franchise of the one i was toying with...daGooders...the offer is still open...(it has no prophets, books, rituals, dogmas...just a basic creed to `do good` ... and the arbiter of that criterion is that individual`s conscience...this will work well with 99.9 % of us... am non-plussed about extending this invite to serial killers, rapists and such....their idea of good maybe a tad too violent for me)
#82 Posted by hamidm2 on August 1, 2005 3:29:05 pm
the hijacking .......
gabby : allah mian, do you know that last religion you sent down to man on earth .....
allah: you mean, the one i sent down to joe smith in utah .......
gabby: ha, ha, very funny !......no, no, you know perfectly well that that idiocy was a farce perpetuated by a bunch of oversexed farmers who wanted to have as many wives as they had cows ........ i am talking about islam, the last and perfect religion we sent down to muhammad of mecca ........
allah: i know .... just kidding ...... so what happened to islam
gabby: it is being hijacked ! ........ i warned you about this when you were going about this business of sending me down with all kinds of conflicting messages without keeping track of the chronological order, and what preceeded what, and what was symbolic and what was for real .......... i told you that man was not smart enough to keep all that stuff straight without messing it up ............
allah: stop talking in riddles !.......you sound like that poet from toronto ......... just tell me what happend .........
gabby: well, first there was this matter of the goat eating six chapters and then there were those verses about zayd`s wife .........
allah: five chapters, not six ........ and we set that zayd thing straight by having imam abu hanifa and his cousin hambal explain it to the bedouin fools .....
gabby: jeez !...... okay, five ... and, just for the record, hambal was not imam hanifa`s cousin and , no, they did not clear up the mess because the muslims ended up with seventy sects ..........as a matter of fact, that guy hambal is responsible for creating the mess that the ummah finds itself in now - he was the original wahabi and is now the patron saint of osama bin ladin .............
allah: osama who? ......is he a mutazilite ? ....... i thought we destroyed them all and had their silly books burned and even had some of them beaten till they were blind ........ i thought the ummah was back on the straight and narrow .......
gabby: (shaking his wings in exasperation): allah mian, no, he is not a mutazilite, he is a wahabi who has hijacked your religion and is leading the people astray - he is making young men blow themselves up even though you have specifically forbidden suicide ...........
allah: ...... i have ? .........gabby, i am confused; i thought the mutazilites were leading the people astray and that is why we sent down imam ghazali .......... where did this osama guy come from .......and please stop calling me `mian` - you know it is a derogatory term that the horrible hindoos use for the true believers, don`t you?
gabby: for your sake, stop sweating the small stuff !.......... i tell you, this man osama and his followers have hijacked the religion and everyone is hopping mad at the muslims .........
allah: who ? ... the jews? .... i don`t care - they are a bunch of trouble makers themselves and i have half a mind to send them back to wander in the desert ......
gabby: but they have atv`s and gps now ....... see, what you made me do !....... this is serious and you think it is some kind of a joke ....... allah mian, i tell you, we have to do something to prevent this hijacking ..........
allah: so what do you want me to do ?....... you know i cannot send down another prophet because we said that muhammad was the last prophet and we can`t go back on our word ..... now, can we?
gabby: but can`t you send down someone - anyone, not a prophet - to find osama and put an end to this nonsense ....... you know that he is hiding in a cave near landi kotal and gets hot meals delivered every day from hamid gul`s kitchen ..........
allah: (with a smile and a wink) he does ?............ come here gabby, give me a hug ......... you worry too much ....... i have already taken care of this - i have karl rove on the case and he will stop this dastardly hijacking with a little help from that lovable munchkin, rummy ........ nobody can hijack anything .........
gabby: but then why are you distracting carl rove when he has to take care of this mess ..........
allah: i work in wonderous ways ................
#92 Posted by khare on August 2, 2005 2:05:58 pm
Re: # 82 Hamidm:
.......first there was this matter of the goat eating six chapters and then there were those verses about zayd`s wife .........
I would greatly appreciate explanation of this. I kind of know that it was Aisha`s hadith which alludes to the fact that some verses have been lost ..because a goat ate it (really?). But, probably not completely. What were those verses? Also, I have no idea at all about what you referred to as ``verses about Zaid`s wife``. Are you referring to the ONE where Allah syas it is OK for Muhammad to marry adopted son`s wife? Or are there more? Appreciate a reply ...will help this non-muslim understand things... have been reading about Islam and Islamic history.
.......first there was this matter of the goat eating six chapters and then there were those verses about zayd`s wife .........
I would greatly appreciate explanation of this. I kind of know that it was Aisha`s hadith which alludes to the fact that some verses have been lost ..because a goat ate it (really?). But, probably not completely. What were those verses? Also, I have no idea at all about what you referred to as ``verses about Zaid`s wife``. Are you referring to the ONE where Allah syas it is OK for Muhammad to marry adopted son`s wife? Or are there more? Appreciate a reply ...will help this non-muslim understand things... have been reading about Islam and Islamic history.
#95 Posted by hamidm2 on August 2, 2005 6:54:56 pm
Re: # 92
khare,
...... sorry, i can`t help you with - blasphemy and all that, you know ...... besides, you kafirs are always trying to cause trouble for us true believers ...... astagfirullah !
khare,
...... sorry, i can`t help you with - blasphemy and all that, you know ...... besides, you kafirs are always trying to cause trouble for us true believers ...... astagfirullah !
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