Idolizing the Koran

kaalchakra # 33:

:)

temporal

What is worship?

mr. shah:

such keh dooN aye b`rahmin gur tu bura na maaney...

re: worship

i worship my partner in crime M
i worship ghalib
i worship good articulation
i worship effective communication

and

i do not worship any stone..black or white

and

i do not pray to any of above...hope this helps!

have a nice day, sir

t

Re: #29 by Urstruly

Thanks for the information.

By the way - do I understand this straight - foster-mothers who didn`t suckle you are allright but foster-sisters who didn`t suckle you are not?

And also, WHEN was this particular law codified by Mohammed?

Re: # 30

I will answer your second question first. The verses contained in Chapter Al-Nisa (The Women) were revealed from 3rd year of Prophet Mohammad`s migration to medina and upto the early part of the fifth year. The exact date of verse 23 is not known for certainity but from ahadith and accounts of his life an approximate time period have been established, which I don`t know at this time. Please keep in mind that the sequence of verses in Qura`n are not arranged in chronological order but they have been arranged according to the instructions of Holy Prophet (pbuh). That is why it takes a little reaserch to establish the chronolgy.

As far as second question is concerned. I think by foster mother and foster sister, you mean a relationship that is established due to adoption. In Islam, to encourage the institution of adoption and to provide the love and care of the whole family, adoption does not establish any relationship between adoptee and the adopted. The adoptee does not have a right in inheritence and thus eliminates the competition from foster siblings. But accoding to the Islamic law of inhetritence each blood relationship has pre-ordained share from the two third of the estate and from the 1/3rd left over portion an adoptee may bequeth a part or whole of of that part to the adopted.

In short, upon puberty, the adopted has to be seprated from opposite sex of the household and a certain demeanor must be established among them just as one would maintain the demeanor between un-related man and woman as per Islamic values. So to address your question more directly an adopted can marry his or her foster parent or sibling.

Re: #24 by Urstruly

[According to Islamic law, two children who happen to suckle same woman becaome real brothers and sisters.]

Yup. Not unsurprisingly, he`s the one that made the law.

:-D

And by the way, could you direct me towards the book, chapter and verse where this law is enshrined?

Re: # 28 Ajeya

The sanctity of relationships as it is practiced in Muslim societies today were established in the Holy Qura`n Chapter Al-Nissa (The Women) 4:23:

``Prohibited to you (For marriage) are:- Your mothers, daughters, sisters; father`s sisters, Mother`s sisters; brother`s daughters, sister`s daughters; foster-mothers (Who suckled you), foster-sisters; your wives` mothers; your step-daughters under your guardianship, born of your wives to whom ye have gone in,- no prohibition if ye have not gone in;- (Those who have been) wives of your sons proceeding from your loins; and two sisters in wedlock at one and the same time, except for what is past; for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful;- ``

Please keep in mind that the word ``foster`` in the verse has a special meaning as explained in my last post - the urdu, Arabic, and persian equivalent is R`zaa`t and such a relationship is thus called Rzza`i - brother, Razza`i-sister etc.

#23 by Azure

[It takes a few seconds to unleash a pack of bloodthirsty radicals on hypocrites like thee :-)]

The veneer of un-islamic civility is so thin and contrived that the actual intentions show through now and then.

A. Shiraz Sahib,
Great article.
You should see the copy of my Quran. Its old, tattered, the pages are dogeared, perfumed with rose oil. When I was in college at LSU, I always kept it in my booksack. Read the translation by Abdullah Yousaf Ali again and again, and discussed it with my Islamic Studies Professor.

Other Pakistani and Muslim students were horrified that I kept a copy of the Quran in the booksack and that I would sit on the grass by the fountain and read while they would stand near by. How dare I put the Quran on a lower elevation than they were!

When I would ask them if they had read the Quran, thy would say Yes, but only in arabic. They had no idea what they had read, many of them prayed regularly, but had absolutely no idea what the prayers in Arabic meant. They said, the Quran is too grand for their limited understanding and the translations inadequate. Such Ignorance!

If there be a Heaven, let it be consumed by Fire

If there be a Hell, Let its Fires be Doused

Let God be our aim, our journey, and destination

The Quran is but one of the vehicles.

God communicating to us through her revelations, Lets understand Her.

Re: #13 by Azure

[Please give the book some respect.]

Yup.

The koran came out of this guy’s mouth.

So it definitely deserves respect.

Re: # 22

Tsk tsk. I wish you could say that in your `real life`, if you have one. It takes a few seconds to unleash a pack of bloodthirsty radicals on hypocrites like thee :-)

Some Muslims claim that it was Abu Bakr who approached Muhammad asking him to marry his daughter. This is of course not true and here is the proof.

Sahih Bukhari 7.18
Narrated `Ursa:
The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for `Aisha`s hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said ``But I am your brother.`` The Prophet said, ``You are my brother in Allah`s religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry.``

Arabs were a primitive lot with little rules to abide. Yet they had some code of ethics that they honored scrupulously. For example, although they fought all the year round, they abstained from hostilities during certain holy months of the year. They also considered Mecca to be a holy city and did not make war against it. A adopted son’s wife was deemed to be a daughter in law and they would not marry her. Also it was customary that close friends made a pact of brotherhood and considered each other as true brothers. The Prophet disregarded all of these rules anytime they stood between him and his interests or whims.

Abu Bakr and Muhammad had pledged to each other to be brothers. So according to their customs Ayesha was supposed to be like a niece to the Holy Prophet. Yet that did not stop him to ask her hand even when she was only six years old.

But this moral relativist Prophet would use the same excuse to reject a woman he did not like.
Sahih Bukhari V.7, B62, N. 37
Narrated Ibn `Abbas:
It was said to the Prophet, ``Won`t you marry the daughter of Hamza?`` He said, ``She is my foster niece (brother`s daughter). ``

Hamza and Abu Bakr both were the foster brothers of Muhammad. But Ayesha must have been too pretty for the Prophet to abide by the codes of ethics and custom.

Re: # 21 Ajeya

Your post needs some correction:

Hamza Bin Abdul Mutlib (RA) or Abu Bakr (RA) were not foster brothers of Holy Prophet (pbuh). Hamza (RA) was his paternal uncle and was of about the same age as that of Holy Prophet (pbuh). According to the Arab custom of that time, when they were infants both suckled the same woman. According to Islamic law, two children who happen to suckle same woman becaome real brothers and sisters. All the sanctity of relationships as stipulated by Islam apply between them. There is no English equivalent to describe the relationship thus formed. The word ``Foster brothers`` is a misleading word.

Abu Bakr (RA) was not related to Holy Prophet (pbuh) through any direct realtionship through family ties or through these relationships as that of formed between to unrelated people when they suckle the same woman. However, Islamic law stipulates that all Muslims are brothers and sisters and though we are not related we have to give due respect to each other as if we would to our real brothers and sisters. In the said hadith Abu Bakr (RA) is referring to this relationship.

I do believe the intrinsic message of this article should be publicised in the media. As the struggling alienated muslim who seeks to fill his void impresses his God by killing the innocent is in dire need to read this article. I`m sure if these suicide bombers were told that they can fulfils their void by understanding the meaning behind the Quraan, they might have been deterred from their contrary horrendous ideology of this faith.

Simon

What is worship?