South Asia’s Clarence Darrow

Re: # 158

Salim,

{{These high-caste Moose Limb Brahmins are too much to take. It`s not fair! Doesn`t he know that on my nannhiyaal side, I am descended from the assistant chief chariot mechanic of His Imperial Majesty, King (Shahinsha) Cyrus (Surosh) the Great? I will kiss his ring finger, touch his beard, and that`s where I draw the line. I will not kiss his Arabic rump.}}

Seeeeee! I knew that drunk hamidm moose-limb-not-wanna-be-but-cant-help-it BRAHMIN-ka-baccha had SOME saving graces...Jeeze...ANYTHING to prevent hamid from singing khumbaya...Mohd Rafi, he aint..

{{And then there is Shankar Wanker Bhayya thumping his chest and whirling his choti around. He wants us all to kiss his Brahmin buttocks that he keeps aired in his minisule dhoti.}}

1)Thats because his highness` chest is sufficiently hairy...but ``thank Saraswati..not like a Neanderthal`s``...TRUE quotation from feminazi wife..
2)Unfortunately, since hippie balding (only...ahem... teeny-weeny bit)...choti/woti ka sawal-hi nahi hai..
3)miniscule dhotis are replaced by sexy thongs..pally...tell your Turkish wife to get the same tastes as brahmin feminazi wives:()

{{Hey Ram, I can`t stand this humiliation anymore.}}

YOU AINT SEEN NUTTIN YET!! you... you.... bloody feckless ...RE-UNIFICATOR!

{{Bhagwan, please let me die and come back as a dung beetle. Why am I of such pathetic pedigree?}}

I was thinking more on the lines of an Afghan leper, plying the streets of Karachi...

{{My Rajput ancestors fought to enforce this Brahmin`s ancestors` passion for having their pale posteriors puckered by paindoos. Why couldn`t my grandpa have been a Pandey or a Dickshit? This is going beyond the pale. I will place a pocketful of Papuan pesos that my pale posterior pales this Brahmin`s pale posterior in paleness.}}

Dont blame MOIS that some of your IDIOTIC Rajput ancestors CHOSE to get circumcised...OK?....that got rid of 90% of your brain-cells

{{Now I know how Mr. Dalit feels. Where is Dalit when we need him? The only thing I can do is now to torture those below me on the totem pole - watch out Baniyaas and Pathans}}

Mr Dalit thinks Chowk is a seclusion room in an insane asylum; where he can go heeeheee like a foetid hyena....

Wow! this is a PRETTY SAD DAY for katlus all over the WORLD.... if you have to resort to subhuman sh*t-encrusted dukkars like dalit to come to your RESCUE...
Man let me give you the WORST shaap from Shankar-bhagwan...``may you & your progeny be Mohajir lepers plying the streets of Karachi``...Allah-damn! one of these days my shaaps may just come true!...

Khuda Hafiz

Re: # 141

Dost-mittarji;

You figured it out....I HAVE changed...a lot...these past couple of years...

OK..... the ICING on the cake was just a few weeks ago, on my India/England trip...I was..er..very POLITELY/RUDELY ....how shall I put it?... NEARLY ``felt over`` at Heathrow by a nubile ``handsome`` NWFP-types Angrezi-convert from Angrez Homeland security.....cos...my BADNASEEB...I look...er..``Aryan``...not ``Dravidian``..

Like Seinfelds says...``not that there is anything wrong with it``!!...
MOIS says ``Hey! you can hump sheep in Bradford-istan-shire; if you want to....but Allah-damned Paki with wicked smile...dont put your manly HANDS on mois!`` Only to be ``saved`` in the nick-of-time by smiling PROFESSIONAL Pommie gora...football-fan type polite hooligan...who did body-search on me.

Thats not ALL...my buddy Manuel told me he was body-searched at Heathrow too!

``Allah-damned`` Paki/Azaad-Kashmiri/Punjaabi/whatever-i/prepuceless-brainless-dukkar-ki-aulaads....this is THEIR doing...& INNOCENT slimy Saraswati Brahmins & Mexican-American half-breeds have to suffer...

Oooooh! I foggot! that Allah-damned Nation called Land of Pure Hypocrites gives ``moral & political`` support to THOSE b*stards...& senile pre-partion generation hindvi & thou...wring your gnarled hands about India`s faults...

Gimme a break; sir!
Khuda Hafiz

``When I call Kashmiri separatism Muslim separatism, I am calling a spade a spade; if doing so is being a communalist, so be it. What else would you call this separatism? Is it to protect their economic well-being, language, culture, kashmiriyat?``
it is to be able to elect their own govt. which india hasnt allowed them bcause they are muslim.


``Why are they raising the slogan “Pakistan se rishta kya?”`` far more are raising the slogan Hindi, hindu, hindustan in India, so does it mean that india is going to turn into a hindu rashtra or unite with the hindu kingdom of nepal. if union with pakistan was the motivating factor the majority of Kashmiris would not be asking for azadi they would be wanting to join pakistan.

``Any answers except that I am a communalist or a right wing fanatic for asking these questions? `` anybody who has followed your postings and loaded questions closely knows what u are.

``“Kashmir`s coming to India was also the result of mainly Nehru (and sheikh Abdullah to a lesser extent) it was not through a democratic process. Mainly because of Nehru`s personal attachment to his roots. Otherwise by the understanding that muslim majority areas go to pak and hindu majority areas go to India it made no sense pulling Kashmir, and all pretense was lost once India commited police action in Hyderabad and Junagadh.”

If you have followed my interacts on this board, I have already said that neither India nor Pakistan stands on high moral grounds on this issue. However, Pakistan cannot avoid responsibility for what happened in Kashmir. If the understanding regarding “communal division” did not apply to states as per the Independence Act, Muslim League could also be blamed for it. It did not have to be so. The British had asked both Congress and Muslim League whether they supported public consultation in the states in this process – Congress supported public consultation by rulers whereas Muslim League opposed it (presumably because of Hyderabad). The British accepted Muslim League’s suggestion and gave rulers the unfettered right to decide on behalf of their subjects. ``

I never claimed that the muslim league or pakistan had the high ground, and the british did not accept the league`s proposal as u put it, they accepted the demand of their own princes who were the most loyal subjects of her majesty.

again mis information u have quite a habit of this, kashmir came because nehru and patel insisted that Hari singh sign accession before they would assist him, finito. Hari Singh wanted to continue being independent like every other prince in india.

Addendum to #213:
``Kashmir`s coming to India was also the result of mainly Nehru (and sheikh Abdullah to a lesser extent) it was not through a democratic process.``

Absolutely wrong! Kashmir came to India because of Maharaja Hari Singh. Nehru`s role was that he insisted on Sheikh Abdullah agreeing to the accession, which was not required under the Independence Act.

Hindvi#173:

You seem to have drifted from discussing the topic to discussing me; this seems to be in response to my statement:

“If the break comes about as a result of a political settlement, then I do not see much repercussions; but if it comes about as a result of a referendum which India is perceived to lose because of Muslim voters, then all bets are off. This is why I am against a plebiscite in Kashmir but am not against letting it go.”

You are unable to distinguish between what I predict and what I want. I predict that the world is heading for an environmental disaster but would be happy if my prediction is wrong. I predict the worse and would want to avoid it. But I would be very happy if my prediction is wrong. You could have said that I am holding this gun at IMs head if I were against letting Kashmir go, which I am not. I am only against plebiscite and see dangers of geopolitical destabilisation in an independent Kashmir, short of that any solution as a result of political compromise is okay with me, including secession.

When I call Kashmiri separatism Muslim separatism, I am calling a spade a spade; if doing so is being a communalist, so be it. What else would you call this separatism? Is it to protect their economic well-being, language, culture, kashmiriyat? Why are they raising the slogan “Pakistan se rishta kya?” Why are they unable to get the support of any of the several non-muslim groups? Any answers except that I am a communalist or a right wing fanatic for asking these questions?

“Dont stuff words into my mouth I never supported Independence for Kashmir….”

I am sorry but when you write several posts supporting those who are fighting for secession, one could be excused for presuming that you support their cause.

“Kashmir`s coming to India was also the result of mainly Nehru (and sheikh Abdullah to a lesser extent) it was not through a democratic process. Mainly because of Nehru`s personal attachment to his roots. Otherwise by the understanding that muslim majority areas go to pak and hindu majority areas go to India it made no sense pulling Kashmir, and all pretense was lost once India commited police action in Hyderabad and Junagadh.”

If you have followed my interacts on this board, I have already said that neither India nor Pakistan stands on high moral grounds on this issue. However, Pakistan cannot avoid responsibility for what happened in Kashmir. If the understanding regarding “communal division” did not apply to states as per the Independence Act, Muslim League could also be blamed for it. It did not have to be so. The British had asked both Congress and Muslim League whether they supported public consultation in the states in this process – Congress supported public consultation by rulers whereas Muslim League opposed it (presumably because of Hyderabad). The British accepted Muslim League’s suggestion and gave rulers the unfettered right to decide on behalf of their subjects.

”This is one of the reasons right wing hindus hate nehru, because they believe he tied an albatross around their necks.”

This is news to me. I thought taht the right wing people criticize Nehru because they think that he stopped the Indian forces from completing pushing invaders from the rest of Kashmir and instead took the dispute to the U.N.

“unlike the right wing it is also a question of emotional attachment for indian muslims like me after all Kashmir has been a part of the nation they love and call home for over 50 years in addition it is also the last muslim majority province india has. And at the end of the day atleast on Paper India upholds a value called secularism which is superior to what either the Pakistanis or the Kashmiris are likely to do so.”

This is the first time that I hear you express this sentiment and I agree that this would be a rational approach to take for an Indian Muslim. Slight correction: India has been your home for not 50 years but for several centuries even if your ancestors were not converts. This is perhaps the only reason which might justify India fighting to keep Kashmir, otherwise it is not worth it.

”But that doesnt mean giving a wrong impresion as you habitually do on chowk about what happened to hindus without explaining the much larger number of muslims slaughtered, raped and evicted in the Jammu and Poonch area by the dogras, sikhs and refugees.”

You have been misreading my posts. Let me say it as clearly as I can: I do not know whether more muslims or hindu/Sikhs were killed and I couldn’t care less. The human beast took over and humanity fled from both sides.

”Also Dost Mittar get out of the habit of assuming hindu nationalism is equal to Indian nationalism, while you can weep repeatedly and justifiably for what happens to hindus from afghanistan to bangladesh the moment an Indian muslim says a few words in sympathy or defense of the Kashmiri muslims who are being brutally tortured and killed in custody and extra judicially by security forces the muslim will be labeled an antinational, a separatist a pro kashmir sepratist, marching to a different drummer, pakistan se rishta kya?”

This is nonsense. I do not equate hindu nationalism with Indian nationalism (you are assuming I am a hindu, I am not quite sure that I am) and accept IM contribution to both historical and contemporary India as an integral part of the Indian story. As for comparing IMs to hindus in Pakistan is concerned, I do it only with the likes of Romair when they criticize India’s record. IMs bear no responsibility to what happens to minorities in Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan or Timbuktu. I have been severely critical of India’s human rights abuses, including those in Kashmir. My position is best stated in my post#141 to shankar:

“I am not prepared to accept any criticism from Pakistanis wrt human rights in India. But since when have you started thinking that this should be India`s benchmark? The only benchmark India has to live up to is its constitution”

”By the way nobody but u would consider me a muslim, or do u believe is as they say ``naam hi kaafi ha``i?”

I have no idea what your name is, your nick is not Muslim.

”My parting advice to you stop seeing the world as Dar Ul Harb and darul Islam (by the way the Quran does not sanction this, it is a later innovation) and stop presenting one sided info. bad things happened to your family in partition but much much worse happened to many I know personally like a family friend who lost 19 members of his family (including probably abducted women) a stone`s throw from Delhi in Faridabad, yet i dont think he harbours the kind of prejudice u do.”

I would admit that I have some prejudices about Islam and they have become more pronounced in recent years after reading about Islam at chowk as well as original sources. It has nothing to do with my family or the partition; it has everything to do with what has been happening in the muslim world since the Saudis started misspending their oil-induced wealth and especially since the end of the cold war. Never mind me or other hindian chowkies, we are completely insignificant in the overall scheme of things even in India, let alone the world; what matters is that people in high places are giving up political correctness and have started using thinly veiled terms like “evil ideology”.

Re: # 211

I have given sufficient reasons to show that Hindvi (a naval fauzi) is in agreement with the current Pakistani ``intellectuals`` who are tying to reframe the same old communal argument in a slightly different manner to make it look trendy and acceptable in the post 9/11 world. He regurgitates the same old Paki fauzi propogandas.He has stated almost in a praiseworthy manner how Mush is ``flexible``, and that the Pakistanis are brave guys who have a moral right (another name for the discredited TNT) over Kashmir, and that Pakistanis were not going to give kashmir even if their POWs were with the Indians, and that Dawood is a great nationalist, and it was alright that some muslims or innocents also died in the mumbai blasts (``beggers cannot be choosers``), if hindus were also involved in smuggling etc then why only muslims like Dawood are branded anti-national....................

so much for this secular version of Romair (another Paki fauzi) who is conjuring his own unsubstantiated historiography in the name of re-writing history....something which can be conjured by any one with a good shekh chilli imagination...................

Yawn- yes I was the one declaring everyone ISI agent and jehadi left right and centre.

I was wrong to compare you to Urstruly and Malik99... your intellectual and educational standard is equivalent to Haroon Elahi and Don... the two teenagers declaring every one who disagreed with them as Indian agents.

Re: # 208

So you think that you can announce a fatwa and declare anyone not agreeing to your line of thinking as an apostate non believer.......well Sir, this may happen in your Jinnah`s pureland.........but not here in this secular country................I can only pity you even more...........

Re: # 208

And you are the true jehadi brother-in-arms coming running to his rescue???

Re: # 207

Well then Keep pitying me... no one is stopping you from living in your fool`s paradise...
I atleast am fighting for something which I believe in passionately... What are you- a nameless Hindu fanatic fascist terrorising true patriots and secularists of your country like Hindvi.

Re: # 206

YLH, you live in an Islamic Republic.....you have no idea about secularism ............except that you try to conjure it up from fragments of Jinnah`s speeches..............I can only pity you........

Re: # 205

You wouldn`t know secularism if it got out of this screen and bit you in the ass...

You are merely a fascist and your treatment of Hindvi, a true Secularist, affirms it.

Re: # 203

YLH.....now that I have revealed to you the secret about secularism..............you can now go back to your myth making in order to take the mantle of the new messiah who is ready to educate the Pakistanis about the ``ORIGINAL`` message of Jinnah...............(whatever that means!)

Re: # 202

You need to read the report carefully and what I said about the c0ck and bull stories that the criminals offer for their criminal acts...........................so much for making a hero out of Dawood

``Epiloque

The voluminous evidence produced before the Commission strikingly brings home the stark reality that the beast in man keeps straining at the leash to jump out; frictions, irritations and disputes based on colour, race and religion are BUT EXCUSES.``

Hindvi

Arguing with Ballu Khan is futile. He does not have any arguments - he is not what he claims to be... riding on the wave of fanaticism that exists against Muslims generally. I think you have done well exposing his arguments... he comes across as quite the fascist and not a secularist or a democrat.

Your opposition to partition is based on logic and I look forward to your ilogs chronicling the India`s march to partition.

-YLH