South Asia’s Clarence Darrow

Re: # 211

I have given sufficient reasons to show that Hindvi (a naval fauzi) is in agreement with the current Pakistani ``intellectuals`` who are tying to reframe the same old communal argument in a slightly different manner to make it look trendy and acceptable in the post 9/11 world. He regurgitates the same old Paki fauzi propogandas.He has stated almost in a praiseworthy manner how Mush is ``flexible``, and that the Pakistanis are brave guys who have a moral right (another name for the discredited TNT) over Kashmir, and that Pakistanis were not going to give kashmir even if their POWs were with the Indians, and that Dawood is a great nationalist, and it was alright that some muslims or innocents also died in the mumbai blasts (``beggers cannot be choosers``), if hindus were also involved in smuggling etc then why only muslims like Dawood are branded anti-national....................

so much for this secular version of Romair (another Paki fauzi) who is conjuring his own unsubstantiated historiography in the name of re-writing history....something which can be conjured by any one with a good shekh chilli imagination...................

Hindvi

Arguing with Ballu Khan is futile. He does not have any arguments - he is not what he claims to be... riding on the wave of fanaticism that exists against Muslims generally. I think you have done well exposing his arguments... he comes across as quite the fascist and not a secularist or a democrat.

Your opposition to partition is based on logic and I look forward to your ilogs chronicling the India`s march to partition.

-YLH

Re: # 203

YLH.....now that I have revealed to you the secret about secularism..............you can now go back to your myth making in order to take the mantle of the new messiah who is ready to educate the Pakistanis about the ``ORIGINAL`` message of Jinnah...............(whatever that means!)

Re: # 205

You wouldn`t know secularism if it got out of this screen and bit you in the ass...

You are merely a fascist and your treatment of Hindvi, a true Secularist, affirms it.

Re: # 206

YLH, you live in an Islamic Republic.....you have no idea about secularism ............except that you try to conjure it up from fragments of Jinnah`s speeches..............I can only pity you........

Re: # 207

Well then Keep pitying me... no one is stopping you from living in your fool`s paradise...
I atleast am fighting for something which I believe in passionately... What are you- a nameless Hindu fanatic fascist terrorising true patriots and secularists of your country like Hindvi.

Re: # 208

So you think that you can announce a fatwa and declare anyone not agreeing to your line of thinking as an apostate non believer.......well Sir, this may happen in your Jinnah`s pureland.........but not here in this secular country................I can only pity you even more...........

Re: # 208

And you are the true jehadi brother-in-arms coming running to his rescue???

another thing in those blasts only the bombay muslims were involved right after the riots, there is no doubt babri caused angst for muslims all over and it probably exacerbated the over all feeling, but if it had been babri muslims from other places would be expected to take part. but it being the work of only bombay muslims, right after the riots, in the targets i have mentioned points in the direction of the riots.

Re: # 202

You need to read the report carefully and what I said about the c0ck and bull stories that the criminals offer for their criminal acts...........................so much for making a hero out of Dawood

``Epiloque

The voluminous evidence produced before the Commission strikingly brings home the stark reality that the beast in man keeps straining at the leash to jump out; frictions, irritations and disputes based on colour, race and religion are BUT EXCUSES.``

sorry the blasts took place even much later in mid march

BTW your chutiyapa is quite visible in the way you have argued that Musharraf and Aziz were on the list... Yes- Miandad invited them.... you can invite President Bush to your child`s ceremony... does it mean anything...

This is the extent of your argument ever and always... you are ready to discredit people like Hindvi who are the most secular and patriotic of Indians and the most logical defence against Pakistani arguments... you deny history when you deny that the role of the Congress in partition and you just make an utter fool of yourself in trying to explain why a man hailed for 3 decades as the best ambassador of Hindu Muslim unity turned out to be a separatist... You are merely the level of Urstruly or Malik99... their Indian equivalent... intolerant, bigoted, idiotic and without logical arguments...

Re: # 198

Addressed to Ballu...

pal the bomb blasts actually were executed by the Memons, and they lived in bombay, they were seeing day in and day out what was happening in the riots babri was broken in th first week of dec, riots took place in two waves in dec and then in jan, the blasts took place well after, around mid feb. if the blasts took place in response to babri they wouldnt have taken place in bombay, and they would have targetted hindu religous places not police stations, shiv sena offices, govt offices, stock exchange and other public buildings.

Re: # 196
You want to create more myths ...........perhaps you know better in your situation about the ``actual reasons`` for the blasts....................may be you can throw some light on 9/11 as well..............but first you must read the Sri Krishna report in order to understand some of the facts....................

http://www.dalitstan.org/mughalstan/qatl/krishna/kri1_6.html
As a result of the demolition of Babri Masjid and the riots which took place in Bombay during December 1992 and January 1993, there was communal cleavage in Bombay. The Muslims felt a feeling of insecurity, tension and anger on account of their sufferings during the two riot periods and they were inclined to blame the State Government and police for their misery. The Muslims perhaps felt that the Government and police, instead protecting their interests, had actually acted against their interests by joining hands with communal elements which took a lead in the riots. A large number of Muslim youths came to entertain this firm belief. This body of angry young men was exploited by anti-national elements, who were desirous of de-stabilizing the situation in this country. Certain anti-national elements aided and abetted by ISI of Pakistan recruited some of the angry young men by brainwashing them that they should take revenge for the humiliation and misery heaped upon them. A grand conspiracy was hatched at the instance of the notorious smuggler, Dawood Ibrahim Kaskar, operating from Dubai, to recruit and train young Muslims to vent their anger and wreak revenge by exploding bombs near vital installations and also in Hindu dominated areas so as to engineer a fresh bout of communal riots. iii) Pursuant to this conspiracy certain brainwashed muslim youngsters were recruited and taken to Pakistan for intensive training in the handling of sophisticated weapons and explosives. As a part of this conspiracy Dawood Ibrahim and smugglers like Mohd. Dossa, aided and abetted by several criminal or similar elements in Bombay, smuggled large consignments of AK-56 rifles, hand grenades, and sophisticated explosives known as RDX. Some of these were landed clandestinely on the coast of Raigad District and some on the Coast of Gujarat State. These were then clandestinely transported to be stored at convenient places within and outside Bombay, awaiting the signal for their use.
.............................

I understand Gandhi`s motivations too, there was no way the debating society that was the congress was going to lead India to freedom he also understood violence would not work plus he seemed to be genuinely religous i.e. he genuinely believed in the religous ideal of the ascetic/ the hindu and sufi ideal of one who conquers his self/nafs. The fact that this helped in mobilising the masses in such a powerful way reinforced his faith in the power of saintlines and self sacrifice and he used it for political purposes.

Given the structure of indian society in which religous or non temporal symbolism worked in such a powerful way which Gandhi had made evident and thereby changed the ground rules of politics with his support of conservative forces withen the muslim political pretenders meant that secular, liberal Jinnah sensed that he wasnt going to get anwhere personally or politically in a country in which muslim would vote only for muslim and hindu for hindu. offcourse the british had helped make it that way with their stated policy of Divide Et Imperium.