Will Pakistanis Listen and Act?

Re: # 224, rsribhar:
Thanks, for taking me into confidence.
I do not know much about others but Temporal seems to be a reasonable person.
Evidently, between you and Chowk, there is a lot of nitty-gritty involved and to resolve the problem both sides will have to forgive and forget.
Your thoughts on the required unity of India have no doubt endeared you to me.
I have always found Chowk to be reasonable.
I would be happy to intercede on your behalf so that you do not have take recourse to clandestine operations.
Of course, I am no resolver of all problems, even my own, let alone the Chowk and you. But I am thinking of a ``peaceful coexistence`` derived from forgive, forget and at some point of time accept.
I do believe where there is a will there is a way.

#223, Inquirer,
The bone of contention between Chowk and me is simply a combination of freedom of expression and nepotism. They do not agree with me, my opinions, and my tactic of responding in kind to insults hurled at me by their favorites. There are people that Chowk favors (Scout, Saminasha, Sobia, Temporal, JohnGalt, Atif, and others) who are allowed to say whatever they like without incurring Chowk`s wrath or having their messages and threads deleted or censored. The same is not true for others, especially me.
Thanks for listening.
Salim Ahmed Chauhan

Re: # 222, rsribhar:
Your views seem reasonable from what I have seen. What is the bone of contention between Chowk Administrators and you?

Dear Inquirer, in #217 you requested {``Are you a Hindu posing for a Muslim? In other words, passing for rsridhar, you could be an agent provocateur. I hope , to God, that you are not doing this unconscionable thing! Please confirm.``}

No, I am not posing as a Muslim. I was born one. I am forced to use multiple and confusing nics to confuse Chowk Staff. This group of tyrants is adamant on suppressing my views, deleting my messages, and erasing my threads. By changing nics, and trying to mimic ``acceptable`` noble personalities, e.g. Mr. Rsridhar, I am able to temporarily confuse the demagogues.
I hope you understand. No harm intended.
Salim Ahmed Chauhan.

I am sorry due to my absence during the first four days, there was some misunderstanding of the purpose of the article, which in no small measure was due to my not unambiguously indicating the format. At any rate, I am happy that people have contributed to the discussion.
Having said that, I wish the respondents would try to keep the issue at hand and desist from the personal attacks that lower the level of discussions.
I particularly value the inputs from ZahraJ, ferozk, premwalla and kaalchakra, among others. Jury is out on sribhar.
As a final comment, I would like to respond to the last comment.

Re: # 220, ZahraJ:
I appreciate your final comment after all the confusion and absolving me from my ambiguous format. In conclusion I would like to state that we need to keep our focus narrow enough to be able to conclude effectively. Ascribing the Pakistani woes to some world malaise, though the connection is undeniable, would leave us in an intellectual limbo unable to at least opine what needs to be done in the specific case.
In this regard, I would redirect your attention to the fact that Muslim Nations, in general, and Pakistan, in particular, need to reformulate their position on the relationships with the minorities and deactivate, if not annul, their scriptures` inappropriate directions/interpretations.

Re: # 218

Inquirer,

I took a stab based on what I understood from your posts. Some of my comments were in response to the specific items you have highlighted. It`s immaterial to me whether you took Musharaf`s phrases to make a point or came up with those on your own. The most important aspect that counts is that you brought up some valid issues of concern. These issues are no longer issues of Pakistan only. They are/have been impacting the rest of the world. In that context, scenario, all views and perspectives should be entertained with an open mind.

If I have to look at a leader/ role model in today`s day and age, I would rarely turn toward anyone in Pakistani armed forces or $hitty politicians. I would always lean toward elsewhere, i.e. Jack Welch, Robin Sharma, Lama Surya Das, Guiliani, Hillary C and many others.

Mukhtaran Mai is an anomaly in the Pakistani System. There are a few others as well but they are educated and belong to a different strata. Mukhtaran has far more potential to create a change in the Pakistani way of thinking than any of the rogue politicians occupying seats in the assemblies. It is neither the Baenazirs nor the Nawaz Sharifs who will change the destiny of Pakistan. It`s people like Mukhtaran who will set examples that will be remembered by the generations to come.

The subject of Pakistani Social System is the most depressing and pathetic topic of discussion. I say, pathetic, since there is little or no improvement from where the system was decades back. There is constant deterioration. The peripheral elements have been given a new shape and color and technology(in some cases), but the core will take a long time for renewal.

That`s it from my end.

I think you should read Godot`s article. I concur with his succinct thoughts and sentiments.

Kaalchakra,

Thanks for your ilog. If I have additional questions, I will route them toward you. Thank you again.

Re: # 197, ferozk:
I agree with your statements to Romair. Let us admit, for the honesty`s sake, that the question of Independent Kashmir does not arise. The continental situation just makes this impossible, whether Romair or his ilk like it or not. The issue to be settled first is how India and Pakistan can learn to live together. Under this proviso, we need to let Kashmir be divided as that would lead to a general rapprochement without which nothing would be doable.
Ultimately, of coure, it will depend on how India/Pakistan treat their Kashmiris. And if the Kashmiris do not agree with the solution what resources they can put up to change the situation. They have to envision their destiny. May it is in their benefit to subsume their identity in the wider purviews of India/Pakistan.

#210, ZaharaJ: Kaalchakra is much more qualified and I hope you already got you
wanted.
#202 to 209: I am sorry, I thought that my format for presentation was understood but I was wrong. I read an article in July 21, Dawn which had reported on a speech given by Musharraf. I selected the paragraphs from that reportage and quoted them along with the my evaluations between ****

---

****. This was followed even in the summary of the article in #201. There the seven points are the points that Musharraf is supposed to have made and in the capitals are the directions from me to for hearing the assessments from Chowkies. I am afraid the the flow of arguments have now become too convoluted to rescue the situation. In future, I will be more explicit in my statements and the format of their presentation.

I will nevertheless respond to tahmed 32 and ZaharaJ’s specific points without defending Musharraf!

#204, ZaharaJ: Evidently, “eradicate” was not my word. Yet I do not differ from Musharraf. I agree with your suggestions regarding Pakistan Govt actions but would like to add that world is running out of patience and the less than decisive implementation of Pakistan’s words into actions. And Pakistan itself is running out of time in ability to execute what is needed. Primarily, there is a dire need to prove to the world that Pakistan treats its minorities with modern justice and fairness – not some idiomatic Islamic version thereof.

#205 and 209, Tahmed32: I cannot answer these questions. These questions have been posited by President Musharraf and are REQUIRED to be answered by Pakistani Muslims. As for India’s record for the treatment of the minorities is concerned, inspite of sporadic violence by misguided Hindus, India’s official and actual policy is vindicated by what Muslims have achieved in all walks of life. That is so, in no small measure, due to wisdom/generosity of Hindus of India.

#208, ZahraJ:
I am glad that you approve of the Musharraf’s stand in steering Pakistan towards a moderate nationhood.
But as it is stated in Bhagvadgita by Krishna Ji, there comes a time when even brothers and teachers have to be killed for upholding a correct position. And that time for Pkistani population is NOW. They have to establish the fairness and justice doctrine in Pakistan even if it takes a civil war between the moderates and the bigoted Mulims. That war would be better and healthy unlike the Sia/Sunni war going on currently.

Otherwise the world will keep the military pressure on the proponents of bigotry in Pakistan and other places. Furthermore, Pakistanis have to move away, in an aggressive fashion, from the Wahaabi ideology that pervades in the Pakistani ISI and a significant section of the Muslims themselves.

At any rate thanks for the praise of Item 7 but it is Musharraf’s not mine. My part was merely the question to learn what the Muslim Chowkies feel about his suggestion.

Re: # 213rsribhar/Salim
Are you a Hindu posing for a Muslim? In other words, passing for rsridhar, you could be an agent provocateur. I hope , to God, that you are not doing this unconscionable thing! Please confirm.

Re: # 202, ZaharaJ ji:
Thanks for looking at the asterisks the same way as I do!

I am sorry, I was away from my computer fo a few days. Therefore, I have not been able to respond to your replies. Tomorrow I will try to provide my thoughts on your response/query.

Thanks Kaalchakra, I do not know in what connection the understanding of ``Mandal`` is being sought. But I can imagine in a certain context in which, your background of your father being a priest puts you in a much better position than me. Nevertheless, three of us will interact and try to maximize the gain in understanding from this opportunity for interaction.

Sorry, ZahraJ ji, I am unable to give a fuller response as I have not yet read the posts carefully enough.

Re: # 214

Thanks. I will look into it.

ZahraJ

I learnt the elementary concepts and design of a Mandala from my grandfather who was, among other things, a village priest. So while Inqurier prepares his detailed explanation, I can volunteer basic help.

Now-a-days in the West, particularly in certain fields of study, the whole idea of mandala has become hot, with tons of relevant material available online. But I will gladly i-log a few words describing my own current grasp of the subject. Then if you have any questions, Inquirer and I will try our best to answer them.

I reiterate. As detestable as they are, the illiterate Mullahs are NOT the problem. Rather, it is the so-called ``educated, liberal, quasi pro-western, progressive`` Pakis who have led the nation to ruin. The debacle of `71 was entirely created by them. This struggle has nothing to do with Islam, Pakistan, Kashmir, or anything else. It is a simple case of looting the poor country. These progressives want to get in power and establish their oligarchy. English for them, Urdu for the poor. Whiskey for them, polluted water for the poor. Meat for them, daal roti for the poor. US/UK higher education for them, madrassas for the poor. Comfortable heaven on earth for them, 72 houris in paradise for the poor. Servants for them, servitude for the poor. Birds of paradise for them, what the bird left on the rock for the poor.

Salim

Sorry. I meant ``Re: #193 by myself``.

Re: #33 by myself

I forgot to add this most important thing to my wishlist:

COULD WE PLEASE ISSUE SHOOT-AT-SIGHT (AND OVERWHELMINGLY AT THE HEAD) JUST LIKE THE BRITISH HAVE ISSUED JUST AFTER 52 DEATHS.

COULD WE PLEASE MAKE THIS THE LAW OF THE LAND IN INDIA FOR TERRORIST ACTIVITIES.

WE HAVE INCURRED OVER 50,000 DEATHS (THAT’S MORE THAN 52 – FOR THOSE BROUGHT UP ON MADRASSA-MATH).

SO COULD WE PLEASE?

FARZANA72 AND TAHMEDMULLAH TYPES WOULD NOT MIND THIS. BECAUSE THE GORAY LOG HAVE DONE IT ALREADY.

SO PLEASE? COULD WE?

Inquirer: I have taken out a lot of time from my precious evening to document my perspectives. I need a favor from you. While I was visiting the museums and reading about the buddhist monastries and the whole stuff on Tibet and other areas, I came across a word, ``mandala`` quite frequently. Can you tell me what does it mean? What is the significance? Does it imply something sacred?

Anxiously awaiting a detailed response.

Thank you.