Will Pakistanis Listen and Act?

why fewer terrorists come from democratic countries?

Democracy is not an issue at all.

Some of the most violent terrorists are being raised in different parts of Europe, right in the comforting laps of the best European democracies.

In the Middle East, one can search in vain for any positive difference democracy has made to decreasing public enthusiasm for terrorism.

Beyond that list remain only a few democratic nations. All of them - except Canada, for their own reasons, make the cost of nurturing and propagating terrorist ideologies extremely high.

Suicide killings are an expression - however twisted that may appear to us - of power, not powerlessness.

If you notice, suicide murders take place ONLY where some connection to a religious `other` either exists or can be rhetorically manufactured.

Where there is no hate toward a religious other, there are neither suicide murders nor public support for such murders.

Re: # 92 I think terrorism would not survive a day without popular support among certain sections. This section tends to feel alienated and powerless. This is the powerlessness of a society that has a weak if any democratic tradition. Indoctrination has also a lot to do with accentuating this feeling of powerlessness. For obvious reasons youth become easy recruits.

If all this is untrue there must be something to explain why fewer terrorists come from democratic countries (and I mean real participatory democracy involving the group) than from non democratic countries.

Arjun_m:

Irony is that the focus does shift. Many of the ``non-pakis`` start responding in their equally uncivilized behavior. How can the pot call the kettle black ? :)

#93 by ZahraJ on July 23, 2005 7:44pm PT


What does Gujrat has to do with this article?


Most pakis think if they say modi 5 times, gujrat 7 times and brahma sleeping with saraswati 2 times, the focus will shift from Pakistan`s support to Islamic jihadis...

Funny how that`s never worked before....

What does Gujrat has to do with this article?

It appears that the ``intellectuals`` have decided to convene at this board to discuss irrelevant subject matter.

Disappointing!

Southasian

Riots would not have occurred in Gujrat had there not built up a reservoir of hatred against Muslims, had certain `leaders` not found an opportunity to tap into that reservoir of hatred, and had the state apparatus not completely dropped the ball.

---

Powerlessness, economic deprivation, lack of many other lollipops -

None of these have a whit to do with terrorism, or with religious riots. The two have different dynamic but total hatred of and disrespect for the victims is their common theme.

Re: # 88 To be a great nation, we need to keep our standards high. Its only in situations like this (Godhra) that a nation`s character is tested. Alas! we passed with poor marks. I wouldn`t say we failed because the subsequent national election redeemed some of what we were losing.

Having said this, we need to base our nationhood on Indianness and not a religion. As a nation we are evolving and learning. I am very positive about this process.

Some gems from The Holy Quran >>

KORAN [9.28] O you who believe! the idolaters are nothing but unclean, so they shall not approach the Sacred Mosque [Mecca] after this year; and if you fear poverty then Allah will enrich you out of His grace if He please; surely Allah is Knowing Wise.

KORAN [9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

KORAN [9.30] And the Jews say: Uzair [Ezra] is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

Quite obviously terrorism is as condemnable as could be. But we must find solution to it and we can`t find solutions unless we try to find reasons. You may not agree with this alienation/powerlessness hypothesis. This theory is not even mine. It`s there in standard social psychology text books. Maybe under present circustances it is not `politically correct` to find reasons. Maybe no one wants to talk about it. For the fear of being labelled, let`s not desist from an open debate.

Re: #87 by southasian

[Yes, but there is rule of law. As proud patriots we should have the rule of law irrespective of anything and the response has to come from the state in accordance with law not from people. That`s what I mean by calibrated response. This is what I can see happening in Britain right now. ]

But you are comparing apples and oranges. As I said, you cannot compare the Hindu experience with what the British have had to endure. Put the British through the SAME scenario as the Hindus have been, and they would have killed every Muslim in sight. And nuked every Islamic religious holy site. Instead, the Indian government is busy subsidizing Haj trips to Mecca.

Also, out of the 750-or-so people OFFICIALLY (Sonia Government numbers) dead, around 250 Hindus were shot and killed by the Nazi-like Modi government. Strange, isn`t it?

In any case, by the same ``rule of law`` theory, I cannot condemn the Modi government until the Congress-sanctioned (not Laloo-sanctioned) enquiry proves otherwise. And the ``secular`` Congress government has tried, but come up empty.

Have to run now.

Re: # 86 Yes, but there is rule of law. As proud patriots we should have the rule of law irrespective of anything and the response has to come from the state in accordance with law not from people. That`s what I mean by calibrated response. This is what I can see happening in Britain right now.

Re: #75 by southasian

[You can see the critical mass building up in western society. Only their reaction is more calibrated and sensible. ]

Actually southasian, your kind is assessment is far more harmful to us Indians and Hindus than someone like urstruly or tahmed32. Urstruly and tahmed32 types are quite obviously fanatics, and would be dismissed by the world out of hand. But your comment is much more insidious ``..only their reaction is more calibrated and sensible``.

On the face of it, this is an eminently reasonable statement. Seemingly mature and conciliatory. But you are condemning us Hindus very cleverly here.

Our Indians are poor, and outwardly not very sophisticated. But they have shown far more patience and class than westerners have.

Try killing the British at the rate of a half-a-dozen dozen a day for 40 years - no - only 40 days - and THEN try to compare the public reaction. And this WITHOUT the thousand years of mass murder and oppression that Hindus have faced.

DO NOT put us Indians down just because we are a poor country compared to the West. And because our poor live in squalor and filth.

We WERE the richest country once - yes, really! - brown skin and all - and will be again. Just keep watching.

``The Muslims of the subcontinent lost their vote on Indian affairs in 1947. ``

Please read it as ``muslims of the North West and Bengal lost their vote on Indian affairs in 1947.``

#82 tahmed: Its not my intention to justify Gujarat riots. Surely that is one of the worst things to have happened in independent India. I am however trying to explain peoples` behaviour with the help of the theory of powerlessness, alienation and reaction to it. People, voted for Modi, is a fact. If you have an alternative explanation other than the standard one please let me know.

``I think it is wrong to simply say that ``terrorism breeds out of powerlessness``. There is enough evidence that terrorists are in fact well funded and very much in control of their lives to the point of becoming arrogant.``

The powerless I talked about was not on an individual scale. I was talking about a certain perceived powerlessness as a group like not being able to do something about injustices suffered by the group. (Palestine, Iraq and so on...)

Chutiya32...it doesn`t really matter what a pompous geriatric nincompoop like you thinks or says anyway..

Re: # 80 Continuing along this line. The Muslims of the subcontinent lost their vote on Indian affairs in 1947. Whatever happens in India, whatever the pretensions, our Pakistani cousins have an opinion. Sometimes the opinion is so strong that only a vote would have done any justice to it. This despair and inability to influence events in India have given rise to anti India terrorism. Explains again why Indian Muslim is not a terrorist despite being in the direct line of fire whereas for the same inciting events Pakistani Mujahideen ties a RDX belt around himself. If only he could vote in Indian elections.