Will Pakistanis Listen and Act?

An article on Pat Robertson’s Christian Broadcasting Network website, which is the only “real” news for the neo-cons

JULY 26, 2005
Is the War on Terror Headed to Pakistan?
http://www.cbn.com/blogs/dalehurd/050726.asp

The London bombing, with its Pakistani connection, has again thrust the spotlight on Islamabad as a dubious, and some would say, double-dealing “partner” in the war on terror. I’ll explain why, in a few paragraphs. First, some interesting background…
For years, a confidential U.S. military source has told me repeatedly what has since become conventional wisdom: Osama bin Laden has been living across the border from Afghanistan in the mountains of Pakistan, and he has eluded capture with the assistance of Pakistan’s military.
His lair is a high altitude location that can be assaulted only by dropping commandoes from aircraft. The rugged terrain and high altitude environment would make such an assault an extremely difficult task. But my source says the biggest factor preventing the nabbing of bin Laden is that it would have to be a secret incursion into Pakistani territory without Pakistan’s knowledge. He says American commanders in Afghanistan know that members of Pakistan’s military pass information to bin Laden.
Consider that when U.S. forces crossed into Pakistan earlier this month and killed 24 terrorists on Pakistani soil, Pakistan did not thank us.
General Pervez Musharraf, Pakistan`s military ruler, reportedly told U.S. Central Command Chief Gen. John Abizaid that “we want our borders to be respected in the war on terrorism and will not put up with future border breaches.``
My source says the Pakistanis are such an unreliable ally that the U.S has resorted to installing its own clandestine network of operatives inside Pakistan in order to nab high value al-Qaeda figures and spirit them out of the country without the Pakistani government’s knowledge (and interference).
So to what degree can we still call Pakistan an ally in the war on terror?
Musharraf told the Financial Times of London Monday that “the command and control system of al-Qaeda in his country has been destroyed, excluding any possibility that the terrorist network could have carried out this month`s bombings in London and Egypt.”
This claim is laughable, and either Musharraf is really that out of touch with reality, or he’s playing a double game in which he hopes to hang on to power by trying please both us and the forces within his military who support bin Laden. I vote for the latter.
The secular Musharraf, in his role as modern version of the last Czar of Russia, presides by force over an unruly Islamic nation that largely despises him and the war on terror.
Pakistan is considered by terror experts to be the most radicalized Muslim state in the world. In fact, the word Taliban, which means “student,” and which we associate with Afghanistan, actually refers to the Pashtun tribesmen, both Afghan and Pakistani, who left radical Madrassas (Islamic religious schools) to fight Jihad in Afghanistan; first against the Soviets and then against Americans.
Musharraf could never win a fair election in Pakistan. Osama bin Laden would stand a much better chance, were he Pakistani.
Pakistani Scholar Ahmed Rashid told the German magazine Der Spiegel Monday that “Pakistan remains the global center for terrorism and for the remnants of al-Qaeda, which is (sic) still very strong here.“ The attack on London is just the most recent display of that.
Strategic guru George Friedman has predicted that the war on terror would conclude in Pakistan. We may not be nearing the end of the war on terror, but Pakistan seems to be where the conflict is headed next.

I went to the other thread (Kashmiri Pandits). It`s kinda scary out there! Ye kissa hai kya aakhir?

kaalchakra: When we are concerned about future generations, then those of us living in the present clearly share a common goal, namely a more peaceful and progressive world. The curse of too many people is that they dont look ahead. They talk about nothing but ``perceived grievances`` (to use south asians phrase from this board earlier on), and use that as an excuse to do what their own descendants will no doubt curse them for: creating divisions and hatreds among communities that detract from the really important problems (like poverty alleviation).

southasian #168 granted that for the poorest of the urban poor (i.e. those living on the streets), it is not possible to have access to lavatories. Indeed, this is true for homeless people in a wealthy nation like the US as well.

I was not talking of them. How about those who do have a roof over their heads? what stops them from digging a damn hole in the ground, putting four walls around it, and so doing what they have to do without impressing the rest of us with their toilet performance??

Re: # 170 Actually most of these people do have some sort of a roof over their heads but its only just. They live in urban slums.

re: Ally # 165

Actually, nothing is uniquely wrong with Islam in this regard. *Any* religion will not work in public. The ONLY reason Islam gets so much beaten up on is that its followers are unable to agree on keeping it in the private domain. Once they do so, Islam would immediately severe its commonly-made association with so many ills of our times.


tahmed# 163

You are so right. We are all constantly pulled downward.

``We will be living the rest of our lives in the future`` - surely, one of the greatest lessons of our lives. Thank you.

southasia #166 Indeed, development issues are the only ones that matter. Everything else is trivial. I have seen for myself the dignity of the poor - not just in India and in Pakistan, and in other parts of Asia, Africa and Latin America. The attitude that poverty and the real life misery of people (not to mention deaths) is something to be mocked that too many posters on chowk have displayed came as a particular surprise after that. Clearly, a person can get advanced college degrees and yet remain primitive in his basic attitudes.

On the subject of sanitation: the most important thing I think is a change in attitude. That happens, I think, when people live in a cleaner environment for a little while. They need to understand that working with your hands to clean up a place is not something to be ashamed of.

Re: # 167 Tahmed: Actually something as basic as a lavatory is or is considered to be a luxury by a section of urban poor. In their case it is more of a economic issue than attitudinal shelter and food being the foremost priorities.

Will Pakistanis Listen and Act?

No, just some show sha for the gorey, and then all pungas will be back on...

nothing will happen till mullahism policy is reversed.... Islam DOES NOT WORK IN GOVT. we have `experimented` many times, we cannot agree on which kind of Islam etc. its best left to individuals how `Muslim` they want to be...

`Islamic` should be removed from title of Pakistan, Islam is personal and should stay OUT OF POLITICS it should not be used and abused by the dirty politicians... look where the abuse of religion has taken Pakistan, its there for you to see...

Khansahib/kaalchakra: I think, gentlemen, that you are permitting the worst written posts on this board to set the agenda and tone of your discussions.

Khansahib, I share your disgust of posters like Ajeya - they come here with a stupid agenda (i.e. ``Islam is bad, hinduism is good`` in case of Ajeya), not here to educate himself on anything. So, dont waste your time with such posters. I agree with you on the misery and filth one sees in India (having witnessed some of the scenes you mention myself at Bombay airport of all places). But let us not fall to the level of the worst of the Indian posters (and there are plenty) by mocking the real life misery of poor people in India. While in Pakistan we may not have such extreme scenes, there are enough poor people in Pakistan who come pretty close. Let us hope, instead, for progress in the sub-continent where no one has to live in misery.

My second point to Khansahib: Please shed this arrogance that causes you to refer to muslim conquerors of past centuries. Arrogance is the province of losers and fools, and I am sure you are not one of them. I personally believe they violated the fundamental tenets of Islam when they launched their raids on India, btw. Nothing to be proud of. Look instead at where we are today, and where we need to be in the future. Since, as someone said, we will be living the rest of our lives in the future - as will our children, and their children, and so forth. So, looking at the present - India is in my view a part of the solution for Pakistan, not a part of the problem. Peace with India is the surest way to get rid of the poverty I mentioned above that exists in both countries - and which, I repeat, is mocked only by lowlife (of the kind that plenty of Indians on chowk have proved themselves to be). Similarly, India provides an excellent example of military non-interference in politics, and of the democratic process.

Shahenshah Mugle Azam KhanSaab

Gustaakhi muaf ho tau arz karoon ki it takes time for the ruled to learn manners from their lords and rulers. As our divinely-justified ruler and natural-born master, you would not have failed to notice that we are a nation of slow learners. Then, in total disregard to our continued education, you suddenly stopped ruling over us.

Time for the doosra aalishaan daaur of the nihaayat umdaa taleem you so very generously arranged for the benefit of hum jahil log?

Aaapka shukraguzaar Khidmatgaar

Arjun_m:

Just to clarify: I had a genuine question on Modi. After much thought and a quick glance on a few posts, it seemed that ``Modi`` is a pet name of an Indian Politician, I guess? I am sorry I am not very well versed on the Indian Politicians. My ignorance or I should say lack of interest. Still, my question was not to make a mockery out of his pet name. It was an innocent query.

Note: After seeing khamakhwa`s post, all the more reason I owed you a clarification.

Thanks.

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SA

Sure. Democracy is to a nation what freedom to move around is to an individual. It will not cure cancer but it is imperative to keeping in good health.

southasian #129 Good point on 1, and agreed that this ``religion qua ego-trip`` is indeed a root cause of religious extremism. And glad you recognize that this is not just a muslim problem, but exists among hindu extremists as well.

On 2, I dont think it is accurate to say that ``never (almost) identify with their adopted country fully``. This is a subjective view.

On 3, I agree that democracy in muslim countries is indeed the solution. As it has proved to be the solution to aggressive nationalism in other nations like Japan and Germany.

On 4., the Hasba bill is an indication of the thinly disguised dictatorship of the mullahs that the religious parties would impose on Pakistan given half a chance. While it has little chance of being approved by the Governor I am told - we will have to wait and see. In any case, the good thing about democracy is that people get the kind of government they deserve. If they wish to replace mainstream parties with religious extremists, then the religious extremists will show them their true colors once they are in power.

Pak has deathwish.Pak see pak do all the wrong things again and again.Now Pak has riled the egyptians by having a hand in the recent bombings, the egyptians allege.Pak will now be taught a lesson by their own ummah.We injuns just sit back and watch as Pak gets rammed in the behind by big strong egyptians.Free show me hearties.All injuns are my brothas and sistahs.