Changing Muslim Hearts
Anne Shamim July 31, 2005
#41 Posted by hamidm2 on August 2, 2005 8:40:03 pm
Re: # 40
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#40 Posted by Rakaposh on August 2, 2005 8:08:30 pm
I did not read the whole article...
I actually havent even read the responses....
the comment ` it sucks to be a muslim` just caught my eyes.
and I wondered if all Britishers felt the same too that it `sucked` to be British.
Lord Jeff committed genocide when he spread biological warfare with small pox infested blankets donated to native americans
I actually havent even read the responses....
the comment ` it sucks to be a muslim` just caught my eyes.
and I wondered if all Britishers felt the same too that it `sucked` to be British.
Lord Jeff committed genocide when he spread biological warfare with small pox infested blankets donated to native americans
#39 Posted by teshah on August 2, 2005 4:15:00 pm
Anne
This phenomenon of religious terrorism is perhaps deeper than it is generally conceived. My son while seeing on TV a massacre in a place of worship in Pakistan asked me, ``Papa! why they do this in places of worship? Can`t they do this crime somewhere else?`` I said, ``Oh, dear! They seem to be too careful to kill only the `kaafirs` who get segregated only in their respective places of worship.`` As a result you see the armed guards protecting the worshippers only in the so called citadel of Islam, the land of the pure. A country which the Quaide Aazam had envisaged to be a refuge (Daarul amman) for the downtrodden muslims of India has become a place of terror (Darul harab) for them by sectarianism and blasphemy laws. To escape this `citadal of Islam` the poor `pakies` were running to to the west for refuge but now thanks to the `islamic` terrorists they don`t feel safe there either. The great Bulleh Shah had said in Punjabi `Sach aakhaan te bhamarh machda`. But nevertheless he did say the truth in his couplet:
Masjid dhaa de mandir dhaa de dhaa de jo kujh dhenda
ik bande da dil nah dhaawin Rab dillaan wich rehnda
The fact is that almost all religions ultimately become fanatically sectarian and so anti-human.
This phenomenon of religious terrorism is perhaps deeper than it is generally conceived. My son while seeing on TV a massacre in a place of worship in Pakistan asked me, ``Papa! why they do this in places of worship? Can`t they do this crime somewhere else?`` I said, ``Oh, dear! They seem to be too careful to kill only the `kaafirs` who get segregated only in their respective places of worship.`` As a result you see the armed guards protecting the worshippers only in the so called citadel of Islam, the land of the pure. A country which the Quaide Aazam had envisaged to be a refuge (Daarul amman) for the downtrodden muslims of India has become a place of terror (Darul harab) for them by sectarianism and blasphemy laws. To escape this `citadal of Islam` the poor `pakies` were running to to the west for refuge but now thanks to the `islamic` terrorists they don`t feel safe there either. The great Bulleh Shah had said in Punjabi `Sach aakhaan te bhamarh machda`. But nevertheless he did say the truth in his couplet:
Masjid dhaa de mandir dhaa de dhaa de jo kujh dhenda
ik bande da dil nah dhaawin Rab dillaan wich rehnda
The fact is that almost all religions ultimately become fanatically sectarian and so anti-human.
#38 Posted by ajeya on August 2, 2005 9:09:39 am
Re: #37 by hamidm2
Yes, this hands-off approach and my-snot-nosed-kid-is-a-mature-thinker-on-any-sociological-issue-under-the-sun attitude has created the mess of a society that we see in America today.
Broken and dysfunctional families, disrespectful and under-educated youth and declining standards in all the major social indicators are prompting desperate measures by the government and responsible folks in American society - like radio ads about how to behave with your kids - about how to teach your kids not to do this or that - things that we learn naturally from our parents.
Children need guidance because they are children. ``Quality time`` and buddying up to your child like an equal is the easy way out, but causes problems in the long run.
Yes, this hands-off approach and my-snot-nosed-kid-is-a-mature-thinker-on-any-sociological-issue-under-the-sun attitude has created the mess of a society that we see in America today.
Broken and dysfunctional families, disrespectful and under-educated youth and declining standards in all the major social indicators are prompting desperate measures by the government and responsible folks in American society - like radio ads about how to behave with your kids - about how to teach your kids not to do this or that - things that we learn naturally from our parents.
Children need guidance because they are children. ``Quality time`` and buddying up to your child like an equal is the easy way out, but causes problems in the long run.
#37 Posted by hamidm2 on August 2, 2005 7:44:41 am
teacher, leave the kids alone ........
....... the other day mrs hamidm bought a picture to replace the one that has been hanging over the fireplace for the last ten years - nobody knows what the old picture was all about and the new one is an even bigger mystery ........ but i digress ..........
...........anyway, it seems that mrs hamidm has been watching a lot of day time tv where effeminate men and .... well ........ regular women with artistic pretensions have been telling people that they should put pictures on the mantle instead of hanging them on the wall as people had been doing for centuries ........... now, being a rather cranky old fogey who used to think that socks come in only one color - black - i was a little uncomfortable with this ``new`` school of interior design ........... so, while i was helping the wife and daughter take down the old and put up the new, i made the comment, `` we don`t have to do this just because some gay guy on tv thinks it looks good !``........... my daughter gave me that look which is reserved for idiots and bigots, dropped her end of the picture on the floor, turned on her heels and walked out of the room, slamming the door behind her ............ i was proud of her even though she made me look like a fool ...............
........... the kids will be just fine if we leave them alone ..............
....... the other day mrs hamidm bought a picture to replace the one that has been hanging over the fireplace for the last ten years - nobody knows what the old picture was all about and the new one is an even bigger mystery ........ but i digress ..........
...........anyway, it seems that mrs hamidm has been watching a lot of day time tv where effeminate men and .... well ........ regular women with artistic pretensions have been telling people that they should put pictures on the mantle instead of hanging them on the wall as people had been doing for centuries ........... now, being a rather cranky old fogey who used to think that socks come in only one color - black - i was a little uncomfortable with this ``new`` school of interior design ........... so, while i was helping the wife and daughter take down the old and put up the new, i made the comment, `` we don`t have to do this just because some gay guy on tv thinks it looks good !``........... my daughter gave me that look which is reserved for idiots and bigots, dropped her end of the picture on the floor, turned on her heels and walked out of the room, slamming the door behind her ............ i was proud of her even though she made me look like a fool ...............
........... the kids will be just fine if we leave them alone ..............
#36 Posted by Saminasha on August 2, 2005 6:12:45 am
Dear Anne,
Thoughtful piece. I particularly appreciated some of the dynamics you pointed out; that the ``home`` country is always idealized in some manner, actual systemic economic, soc and political inequities are glossed over, etc., so that consequent generations of Muslim Americans have a piecemeal understanding of what the political realities ``back home`` are. This process is complex; parents who came to the US i.e. thirty years ago experienced a different (and from most accounts, more tolerant and relaxed) and clearly attenuated identity. At the same time, they are anxious about their children losing their (the parents/fam) identity-which is an inevitable process. Ironically, the identities of the home country are evolving and changing simultaneously!
In addition, these children are growing up in a ideologically hostile environment. Yes, as your son observed, it ``sucks`` to be the Muslim constructed by the rightwing American imagination. But as you and other respondents pointed out, it sucks to be a progressive, gay, Black American, Latino working class, a woman, American Indian...welcome to America...
I appreciate your call for Muslim Americans to really study the histories, narratives and movements that have made and continue to make this country what it is. There are some moments of profound vision in American history.
At the same time however, realize that many ``minorities`` have struggled with the issues of self representation, social action, community, empowerment and social justice. Read, for example the People`s History by Howard Zinn. ``Talking Books`` by Henry Louis Gates in the Norton Anthology of Black American Literature. Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee and Sherman Alexie`s short stories. Maxine Hong Kingston, Toni Morrison, there is an amazing canon of ``hyphen Americans`` for us to relate to.
While I understand that your call is to help to detangle the various strands that make up the Muslim American identity, I dont see that or those identities as problematic but a most natural embodiment of what it is to be human. The greater tragedy is to amputate selves that dont fit into the stereotypical jingoism that has substituted multilateral domestic and international policy.
Thoughtful piece. I particularly appreciated some of the dynamics you pointed out; that the ``home`` country is always idealized in some manner, actual systemic economic, soc and political inequities are glossed over, etc., so that consequent generations of Muslim Americans have a piecemeal understanding of what the political realities ``back home`` are. This process is complex; parents who came to the US i.e. thirty years ago experienced a different (and from most accounts, more tolerant and relaxed) and clearly attenuated identity. At the same time, they are anxious about their children losing their (the parents/fam) identity-which is an inevitable process. Ironically, the identities of the home country are evolving and changing simultaneously!
In addition, these children are growing up in a ideologically hostile environment. Yes, as your son observed, it ``sucks`` to be the Muslim constructed by the rightwing American imagination. But as you and other respondents pointed out, it sucks to be a progressive, gay, Black American, Latino working class, a woman, American Indian...welcome to America...
I appreciate your call for Muslim Americans to really study the histories, narratives and movements that have made and continue to make this country what it is. There are some moments of profound vision in American history.
At the same time however, realize that many ``minorities`` have struggled with the issues of self representation, social action, community, empowerment and social justice. Read, for example the People`s History by Howard Zinn. ``Talking Books`` by Henry Louis Gates in the Norton Anthology of Black American Literature. Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee and Sherman Alexie`s short stories. Maxine Hong Kingston, Toni Morrison, there is an amazing canon of ``hyphen Americans`` for us to relate to.
While I understand that your call is to help to detangle the various strands that make up the Muslim American identity, I dont see that or those identities as problematic but a most natural embodiment of what it is to be human. The greater tragedy is to amputate selves that dont fit into the stereotypical jingoism that has substituted multilateral domestic and international policy.
#35 Posted by shobig_sifar on August 2, 2005 4:43:13 am
Re: # 30 [When they get up in the morning they should put shoe-
polish on their faces and act `ghetto` all day]
haha, reminded me of that long quotation by Maudoodi, goes remotely like ...``agar dunya pe kaalon ka raaj ho gaya tau apnay chehroN per kaalak malaein ge...charhtay sooraj ke pujaari....``, perhpas you, of all, have come across it somewhere.
regards
polish on their faces and act `ghetto` all day]
haha, reminded me of that long quotation by Maudoodi, goes remotely like ...``agar dunya pe kaalon ka raaj ho gaya tau apnay chehroN per kaalak malaein ge...charhtay sooraj ke pujaari....``, perhpas you, of all, have come across it somewhere.
regards
#34 Posted by shobig_sifar on August 2, 2005 4:35:05 am
[Muslim children often find themselves having to sustain two frames of mind: one at home for the appeasement of parents who can`t seem to let go of the good old days back in the home country, and another out in the world to gain acceptance from their American peers. My guess is that oftentimes it is this dichotomy that plays into a young man`s decision to seal his sense of identity through a terrible act of violence.]
True perhaps....but could anybody be held responsible for it? Neither the `inhouse` society nor the one that prevails outside would be willing to, or could impelled to change....the rule of thumb? Children, can`t but help fall victims to this nauseous clash of socail environment. But this does not necessarily mean they only resort could be acts of voilence and terrorism..the reasons are more far-fetched than this.
True perhaps....but could anybody be held responsible for it? Neither the `inhouse` society nor the one that prevails outside would be willing to, or could impelled to change....the rule of thumb? Children, can`t but help fall victims to this nauseous clash of socail environment. But this does not necessarily mean they only resort could be acts of voilence and terrorism..the reasons are more far-fetched than this.
#33 Posted by shobig_sifar on August 2, 2005 4:27:23 am
Re: # 21 No, they`ll change if all the mitars shave their heads and chins off! Take?
#32 Posted by irfanhamid on August 2, 2005 4:24:59 am
Re: # 28 (nadsc),
Either you have misunderstood my point, or are deliberately ignoring it. Rational thought dictates that there be ``ifs`` ands ``buts`` when discussing any issue. If (see, it appeared) you are asking or advising people to make their sympathies, respect and admiration or even disdain for a person solely the color of his skin or the color of his passport, then I`m afraid I cannot side with you. As a humanist I must condemn the Islamic invasion of Europe and the Islamic rule in Spain, but if I do not condemn the British Raj then what exactly am I?
I quote the author ``Or at the very least, stifle our urges to say disparaging things in front of our kids``, now many people may find this a completely normal thing, but I see in it the beast of Orwellian thought raising its ugly head. However, later the author does say ``By all means, criticize its shortcomings, but in a context of concern, not condescension``, which is heartening.
By your own admission, this is a country where you have found ``respect, honesty and freedom``, yet you are unwilling to accord that same freedom to someone else who has a point of view not totally compatible with your own?
Regards,
Irfan.
Either you have misunderstood my point, or are deliberately ignoring it. Rational thought dictates that there be ``ifs`` ands ``buts`` when discussing any issue. If (see, it appeared) you are asking or advising people to make their sympathies, respect and admiration or even disdain for a person solely the color of his skin or the color of his passport, then I`m afraid I cannot side with you. As a humanist I must condemn the Islamic invasion of Europe and the Islamic rule in Spain, but if I do not condemn the British Raj then what exactly am I?
I quote the author ``Or at the very least, stifle our urges to say disparaging things in front of our kids``, now many people may find this a completely normal thing, but I see in it the beast of Orwellian thought raising its ugly head. However, later the author does say ``By all means, criticize its shortcomings, but in a context of concern, not condescension``, which is heartening.
By your own admission, this is a country where you have found ``respect, honesty and freedom``, yet you are unwilling to accord that same freedom to someone else who has a point of view not totally compatible with your own?
Regards,
Irfan.
#31 Posted by Simon_Templar on August 1, 2005 10:41:21 pm
Re: # 15 It is amazing. Just this last week you were giving big thumbs-
up signs to news reports that RAW and Israeli Mossad is acting jointly
to promote ethnic and sectarian strife in Pakistan, through mass scale
bombings and targeted killings.
Subhaan`allah. A true follower of Gandhi and Nehru. ;)
up signs to news reports that RAW and Israeli Mossad is acting jointly
to promote ethnic and sectarian strife in Pakistan, through mass scale
bombings and targeted killings.
Subhaan`allah. A true follower of Gandhi and Nehru. ;)
#30 Posted by Simon_Templar on August 1, 2005 10:26:52 pm
I have a solution:
Muslims who feel the Christians don`t like them anymore (not for
what they might`ve done, but for who they are), should become
Christians. When they get up in the morning they should put shoe-
polish on their faces and act `ghetto` all day.
Either that, or maybe the time has come to dust off the Quran
and learn what`s in it. Become proud ambassadors of their faith,
fit to be emulated by the west. Instead of being held hostage by
the action of others, forever lamenting their state and fate.
Muslims who feel the Christians don`t like them anymore (not for
what they might`ve done, but for who they are), should become
Christians. When they get up in the morning they should put shoe-
polish on their faces and act `ghetto` all day.
Either that, or maybe the time has come to dust off the Quran
and learn what`s in it. Become proud ambassadors of their faith,
fit to be emulated by the west. Instead of being held hostage by
the action of others, forever lamenting their state and fate.
#29 Posted by ZahraJ on August 1, 2005 8:04:22 pm
Re: # 18
After a long long time, I am forced to agree with Tahmed`s words of wisdom!
I do want to point out that in many cases people use heart and mind interchangeably. The process of thinking is mistaken for feelings and vice versa. It may not be the case over here, but that`s a prevalent misconception in many societies.
After a long long time, I am forced to agree with Tahmed`s words of wisdom!
I do want to point out that in many cases people use heart and mind interchangeably. The process of thinking is mistaken for feelings and vice versa. It may not be the case over here, but that`s a prevalent misconception in many societies.
#28 Posted by nadsc on August 1, 2005 7:45:03 pm
Re: # 27
This sort of a response is exactly what Anne was referring to.These are the skeptics who instead of condemning the actions of these fanatics will always have a ``BUT`` as an explanation for whatever is happening.The muslims have only one and ONLY one place to assign the blame.It is to themselves !Why have we put ourselves into positions where foreign intervention becomes a neccessity.Why do we repeatedly invite foreign forces to rule our lands.This is not a new phenomenon.It started with the Brits entering India, and the mughals so drunk with power, women and wealth easily gave away their soverignity.Muslims are a screwed up people.We have failed to address our short-comings.We have given the ultimate responsibilty of understanding Islam to an illiterate cult of fanatics.
I love US of A and I will live and die for it.....because this is a country where I have found respect, honesty and freedom.
This sort of a response is exactly what Anne was referring to.These are the skeptics who instead of condemning the actions of these fanatics will always have a ``BUT`` as an explanation for whatever is happening.The muslims have only one and ONLY one place to assign the blame.It is to themselves !Why have we put ourselves into positions where foreign intervention becomes a neccessity.Why do we repeatedly invite foreign forces to rule our lands.This is not a new phenomenon.It started with the Brits entering India, and the mughals so drunk with power, women and wealth easily gave away their soverignity.Muslims are a screwed up people.We have failed to address our short-comings.We have given the ultimate responsibilty of understanding Islam to an illiterate cult of fanatics.
I love US of A and I will live and die for it.....because this is a country where I have found respect, honesty and freedom.
#27 Posted by irfanhamid on August 1, 2005 5:30:17 pm
Good point Anne, we should visibly protest terrorist acts committed in our name. This will not only show the victims (9/11, 7/7 etc.) that we are not tacitly condoning them, but will also show the perpetrators that there is a sizeable segment of our society that does not consider them heros.
That said, maybe you should try and temper your indoctrination of patriotism to your children. Teach them humanism instead, imbibe in them the spirit to respect and admire all countries, not just the US of A. Instruct them to pay homage to the diversity of human existence rather than foaming at the mouth and swelling with pride every time the Stars and Stripes is staked in the capital of another sovereign nation. ``Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious`` said Oscar Wilde, truer words have seldom been spoken.
The world population has passed the 6 billion mark, the resources of the planet are stretched so thin that an overwhelming percentage of humanity is deprived. Add to that mix the competitive instinct of man and you have a sure-fire recipe for disaster. Humanity is a juggernaut rolling relentlessly towards an inevitable and ignoble end. I would be very surprised if there isn`t a string of major disasters during my lifetime that result in our auto-annihilation.
Regards,
Irfan Hamid.
That said, maybe you should try and temper your indoctrination of patriotism to your children. Teach them humanism instead, imbibe in them the spirit to respect and admire all countries, not just the US of A. Instruct them to pay homage to the diversity of human existence rather than foaming at the mouth and swelling with pride every time the Stars and Stripes is staked in the capital of another sovereign nation. ``Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious`` said Oscar Wilde, truer words have seldom been spoken.
The world population has passed the 6 billion mark, the resources of the planet are stretched so thin that an overwhelming percentage of humanity is deprived. Add to that mix the competitive instinct of man and you have a sure-fire recipe for disaster. Humanity is a juggernaut rolling relentlessly towards an inevitable and ignoble end. I would be very surprised if there isn`t a string of major disasters during my lifetime that result in our auto-annihilation.
Regards,
Irfan Hamid.
#26 Posted by nadsc on August 1, 2005 5:07:45 pm
I am very impressed by the comments the author makes regarding integration in the society that one lives in.I have lived in Pakistan,The Middle East, United Kingdom,and the United States.The amount of acceptance I have had in the US far out-weighs any of my other experiences.Being a Pakistani, I was a third class citizen in my own country.The first class citizens were the corrupt , followed by the civil service and military people.I lived in the middle east, where Pakistanis were treated like crap, often referred to as ``Bakistani Miskeen`` or ``Pakistani Beggars``...this at the hand of our muslim brethren.The illiterate`s on the other hand respected the white man and would clean their shit if they had to.UK was a story everyone is familiar with.USA is the only country where I have found myself to be respected and given equal opportunities.Ther are those who will claim otherwise.The biggest reason for non-integration with the citizenry is cited as ``they drink alcohol and their men and women are corrupt``.God Damn! Am I siick of this or what.I travel extensively, I attend many meetings...and I have yet to hear anyone complain that I don`t drink or party as others do.What I get commended for is my hard work.So I say for those who think they are here to fix problems...Get The H
out here and go back to the stinking holes you cam e from.
out here and go back to the stinking holes you cam e from.
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