Losing My Religion
Nandita K Baig August 3, 2005
#211 Posted by echoboom on May 24, 2007 12:39:22 pm
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#210 Posted by Shami on March 18, 2006 3:01:39 pm
Re: # 209
Please read the Quranic Verses in context and with explanations. The one you talk about means that Muslims are firm in their faith and are not to be bent around/pushed by disbelievers. Hope this answers the question.
``Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and those who are with him are hard *52 on the disbelievers and merciful among themselves. *53 `` - Sura Alfatah verse 29
EXPLANATIONS
*52 ``The Companions (of the Holy Prophet) are hard on the disbelievers`` : they are not ``wax that the disbelievers may mould them as they like; they can neither be cowed nor. purchased by any inducement. The disbelievers have no power to turn them away from the great objective for the sake of which they have joined and followed the Holy Prophet even at the cost of their lives.``
*53 That is, ``Whatever their hardness and severity, it is only for the disbelievers, not for the believers. As regards the believers they are soft, merciful, affectionate, sympathetic and compassionate. Their unity of aim and object has produced in them love and harmony and complete accord among themselves.``
Please read the Quranic Verses in context and with explanations. The one you talk about means that Muslims are firm in their faith and are not to be bent around/pushed by disbelievers. Hope this answers the question.
``Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and those who are with him are hard *52 on the disbelievers and merciful among themselves. *53 `` - Sura Alfatah verse 29
EXPLANATIONS
*52 ``The Companions (of the Holy Prophet) are hard on the disbelievers`` : they are not ``wax that the disbelievers may mould them as they like; they can neither be cowed nor. purchased by any inducement. The disbelievers have no power to turn them away from the great objective for the sake of which they have joined and followed the Holy Prophet even at the cost of their lives.``
*53 That is, ``Whatever their hardness and severity, it is only for the disbelievers, not for the believers. As regards the believers they are soft, merciful, affectionate, sympathetic and compassionate. Their unity of aim and object has produced in them love and harmony and complete accord among themselves.``
#209 Posted by teshah on August 19, 2005 7:01:52 pm
Re: # 208
Rabia Bibi, I ask , how could you be a Muslim and not hate disbelievers as Quran adjoins, ``Those who are with him (the prophet) are hard against the disbelievers`` - verse 29 of Sura Alfatah.
Rabia Bibi, I ask , how could you be a Muslim and not hate disbelievers as Quran adjoins, ``Those who are with him (the prophet) are hard against the disbelievers`` - verse 29 of Sura Alfatah.
#208 Posted by rabiaanwar on August 17, 2005 10:03:48 am
After reading this article I felt a bit quesy and attempted to assuage that feeling by reading through the reply posts -- bad idea, made me positively ill. Although I wanted to read every one I lacked the stamina but, sigh, here are my comments and contribution to this string. BTW I just joined chowk and this is my first post, go easy on me.
First I have to comment on the article itself. Religion is matter of belief and practice. The belief and practice you`ve taught your child is their religion until or unless they convert to another. It is beyond me to comprehend what fractions have to with it. From what I understand at some point long ago my forefathers were Hindu rajputs who converted enmasse to Islam. It makes no difference to me what religion they were or, as a matter of fact, what religion any of my relatives are even today. My religion is what I personally believe and practice, period. And just to provide some frame of reference, I am a practicing Muslim woman, I wear hijab, pray, fast, am a mother and hard working lawyer. My three closest friends are Christian, Hindu, and Buddhist, respectively. We all love one another and share so much in common that the way we practice our religion has never interfered in the bonds of our friendship. We respect one another and encourage each other to pursue sprituality in all aspects.
As a mother I`ve taught my daughter Islam but I`ve also taught her to respect people of every religion. It saddens me that this author has done nothing but feed the atmosphere of intolerance by teaching her innocent child the fractions of his identity. Utterly sad...
Now, as for the other posts:
1. With respect to a post declaring all children born of Muslims to be Muslim (#9 I think) let me clarify the Islamic perspective to you: Islam teaches us that all children, ALL CHILDREN, are born Muslim because to be Muslim simply means to be someone who is submitting to the will of God. So a newborn child, clean as a slate, pure and innocent, of course has not done anything against the will of God and therefore submits to the will of God until that child is taught to practice a religion that does not submit to the will of God. Whether or not you agree with this perspective is not the point, thats simply the Islamic perspective of the original human condition at birth.
2. Others have suggested circumcision to be an indiction of religion, it is simply incorrect. There are countless western male converts to Islam who were not circumcised at birth but are now practicing Muslims. The prophet Abraham (may God be pleased with him) was commanded to circumcise himself at a ripe old age and he did so to please his Lord. Likewise converts can and perhaps should get circumcised but at the same time if they do not it does not negate the fact that they are Muslim nontheless.
3. Further on the point of circumcision, and this time of the female variety, someone responded that Islam abrogates female circumcision, which is practiced in countries such as Somalia. This is unequivocally incorrect. Female circumcision is matter of cultural practice, not religious practice, and is performed in many tribal areas, by pagans, by Christians, and yes by Muslims, who live in certain African regions. As a southasian woman I am certainly not circumcised nor do I know a single Muslim woman who is.
4. I find it absolutely fascinating that so many folks here are encouraging Muslims to convert b/c the rest of the world doesnt seem to particularly like them. May I say how decidedly lacking in integrity a person would have to be to abandon any part of their identity because others didn`t like it? But to abandon your religion? Would any of the Hindus or Sikhs here abandon their religion b/c all of a sudden things were getting difficult for you? Speaking of which, at no time in history has it been easy to be a person of faith, whether that faith is Islam, Judaism, Christianity, or any other religion. The ease of practicing a religion is simply a function of where you live. It makes me giggle to consider the post of the person who suggested you should convert to Hinduism b/c India is experiencing bright economical propects...seriously? Have you been to the Gulf? Would you convert to Islam for all the oil money? lol..come on...
5. I also have to comment, for all of those bemoaning the ``forced`` conversions of ancestors long ago, that conversions to Islam today must make you scratch your head. Growing up in the US I`ve met probably hundreds of Muslim converts (or ``reverts`` as they usually like to be called b/c they believe they were born Muslim) who have yet to experience a sword to their throats. Can anyone explain why, according to Time magazine, nine out of ten religious conversions are individuals accepting Islam? Who is forcing who at this point?
6. Let me say finally that religion is a matter of choice. The Quran tells us to say to the nonbelievers ``I do not worship that which you worship; you do not worship that which I worship...to you, your religion, and to me, mine``.
Anyhow, I say all the above with the utmost respect for every person who has posted an opinion here. May God grant us all humility, tolerance, and respect for one another.
Ciao
rabia
First I have to comment on the article itself. Religion is matter of belief and practice. The belief and practice you`ve taught your child is their religion until or unless they convert to another. It is beyond me to comprehend what fractions have to with it. From what I understand at some point long ago my forefathers were Hindu rajputs who converted enmasse to Islam. It makes no difference to me what religion they were or, as a matter of fact, what religion any of my relatives are even today. My religion is what I personally believe and practice, period. And just to provide some frame of reference, I am a practicing Muslim woman, I wear hijab, pray, fast, am a mother and hard working lawyer. My three closest friends are Christian, Hindu, and Buddhist, respectively. We all love one another and share so much in common that the way we practice our religion has never interfered in the bonds of our friendship. We respect one another and encourage each other to pursue sprituality in all aspects.
As a mother I`ve taught my daughter Islam but I`ve also taught her to respect people of every religion. It saddens me that this author has done nothing but feed the atmosphere of intolerance by teaching her innocent child the fractions of his identity. Utterly sad...
Now, as for the other posts:
1. With respect to a post declaring all children born of Muslims to be Muslim (#9 I think) let me clarify the Islamic perspective to you: Islam teaches us that all children, ALL CHILDREN, are born Muslim because to be Muslim simply means to be someone who is submitting to the will of God. So a newborn child, clean as a slate, pure and innocent, of course has not done anything against the will of God and therefore submits to the will of God until that child is taught to practice a religion that does not submit to the will of God. Whether or not you agree with this perspective is not the point, thats simply the Islamic perspective of the original human condition at birth.
2. Others have suggested circumcision to be an indiction of religion, it is simply incorrect. There are countless western male converts to Islam who were not circumcised at birth but are now practicing Muslims. The prophet Abraham (may God be pleased with him) was commanded to circumcise himself at a ripe old age and he did so to please his Lord. Likewise converts can and perhaps should get circumcised but at the same time if they do not it does not negate the fact that they are Muslim nontheless.
3. Further on the point of circumcision, and this time of the female variety, someone responded that Islam abrogates female circumcision, which is practiced in countries such as Somalia. This is unequivocally incorrect. Female circumcision is matter of cultural practice, not religious practice, and is performed in many tribal areas, by pagans, by Christians, and yes by Muslims, who live in certain African regions. As a southasian woman I am certainly not circumcised nor do I know a single Muslim woman who is.
4. I find it absolutely fascinating that so many folks here are encouraging Muslims to convert b/c the rest of the world doesnt seem to particularly like them. May I say how decidedly lacking in integrity a person would have to be to abandon any part of their identity because others didn`t like it? But to abandon your religion? Would any of the Hindus or Sikhs here abandon their religion b/c all of a sudden things were getting difficult for you? Speaking of which, at no time in history has it been easy to be a person of faith, whether that faith is Islam, Judaism, Christianity, or any other religion. The ease of practicing a religion is simply a function of where you live. It makes me giggle to consider the post of the person who suggested you should convert to Hinduism b/c India is experiencing bright economical propects...seriously? Have you been to the Gulf? Would you convert to Islam for all the oil money? lol..come on...
5. I also have to comment, for all of those bemoaning the ``forced`` conversions of ancestors long ago, that conversions to Islam today must make you scratch your head. Growing up in the US I`ve met probably hundreds of Muslim converts (or ``reverts`` as they usually like to be called b/c they believe they were born Muslim) who have yet to experience a sword to their throats. Can anyone explain why, according to Time magazine, nine out of ten religious conversions are individuals accepting Islam? Who is forcing who at this point?
6. Let me say finally that religion is a matter of choice. The Quran tells us to say to the nonbelievers ``I do not worship that which you worship; you do not worship that which I worship...to you, your religion, and to me, mine``.
Anyhow, I say all the above with the utmost respect for every person who has posted an opinion here. May God grant us all humility, tolerance, and respect for one another.
Ciao
rabia
#207 Posted by teshah on August 14, 2005 6:00:33 pm
Re: # 206
This what they call `Khtame Nabuwwat` in Pakland which is actually `Khatamaa-e-Nabuwwat`. The mullah thus cutting off direct dialing of the man with God which makes room for him to become a god himself. His motto is `Khuda ki khudai khatam, Nabi ki nabuwwat khatam, insan ki insaniat khatam, mullah ki mullah gardi zinda baad`.
Our prophet had said:
``Apne dil se fatwa poochh agarchih log tum ko fatwa dewein`
(Ask your heart (truth-seeking mind) about the truth and don`t care what the people say)
This what they call `Khtame Nabuwwat` in Pakland which is actually `Khatamaa-e-Nabuwwat`. The mullah thus cutting off direct dialing of the man with God which makes room for him to become a god himself. His motto is `Khuda ki khudai khatam, Nabi ki nabuwwat khatam, insan ki insaniat khatam, mullah ki mullah gardi zinda baad`.
Our prophet had said:
``Apne dil se fatwa poochh agarchih log tum ko fatwa dewein`
(Ask your heart (truth-seeking mind) about the truth and don`t care what the people say)
#206 Posted by parthaab on August 11, 2005 3:01:00 am
The mind of religious believers is closed on the existence of `God`.
And naturally what follows from that is an acceptance of religion and a conscious rejection of people belonging to `other` faiths and the injection of this vile logic into fragile minds, thus subconsciouly making them fertile for a future of more falsehoods, violence and conflict.
Why should nt governments give atheism its due?
And naturally what follows from that is an acceptance of religion and a conscious rejection of people belonging to `other` faiths and the injection of this vile logic into fragile minds, thus subconsciouly making them fertile for a future of more falsehoods, violence and conflict.
Why should nt governments give atheism its due?
#205 Posted by rsridhar on August 9, 2005 4:48:44 pm
re: Jiinah-Churchill tango!
This will have YLH`s chaddi in fire. Ha, ha, ha.
YLH, read on:
http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=75870
Sridhar
This will have YLH`s chaddi in fire. Ha, ha, ha.
YLH, read on:
http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=75870
Sridhar
#204 Posted by warpster on August 9, 2005 4:32:26 pm
I mostly lurk once in a while..
Are there cases of multiple identities talking to themselves? it is so confusing.
In some ways the atmosphere in chowk mirrors trends outside.. Namely, this is not a good time to be a pakistani/muslim... even mush seems to be apologetic
re the article, nandita seems to be clueless. first of all the concept of ``religion`` is semetic. there is no parallel entity called hindu religion. the right word for it is ``dharma`` or sanatana dharma. as someone pointed out ``baig`` is not logically muslim and even if it was inconvenient, changing a name is not a big deal. people routinely do this in america.
see http://www.boloji.com/hinduism/102.htm for bground on dharma
#201 Posted by delhiwala on August 8, 2005 8:54:20 am
Re: # 200
A good man like robinhood was mistreated and now he is not showing up anymore.
Seth Robinhood Jee, please come out and fight for us with the evil-axis at chowk. We need you here. You are the last hope for showing the shitbox to shitheads.
A good man like robinhood was mistreated and now he is not showing up anymore.
Seth Robinhood Jee, please come out and fight for us with the evil-axis at chowk. We need you here. You are the last hope for showing the shitbox to shitheads.
#200 Posted by premwalla on August 8, 2005 8:02:19 am
Helping alleviate unemployment in Pakiland
Salim is responsible for providing employment to several Pakis
Chowk has provided three FTE CHAPRASIS to keep track of Salim`s threads and messages and delete them regardless of the topic or content.
If this isn`t solving the unemployment problem among Pakis what else will.
Thank you Salim.
Salim is responsible for providing employment to several Pakis
Chowk has provided three FTE CHAPRASIS to keep track of Salim`s threads and messages and delete them regardless of the topic or content.
If this isn`t solving the unemployment problem among Pakis what else will.
Thank you Salim.
#199 Posted by premwalla on August 8, 2005 6:56:24 am
robinhood #195, {``mr salim seems to be a very nice person to interact with.
sir, you have impressed me with your intellect. you deserve commendations not mistreatment``}
Mr. Hood,
That was very nice of you to support me. Thank you, sir. I appreciate your objectivity, fairness, and kindness. I have a viewpoint and Chowk Staff`s cruel suppression of this right is perplexing.
Thanks,
Salim
sir, you have impressed me with your intellect. you deserve commendations not mistreatment``}
Mr. Hood,
That was very nice of you to support me. Thank you, sir. I appreciate your objectivity, fairness, and kindness. I have a viewpoint and Chowk Staff`s cruel suppression of this right is perplexing.
Thanks,
Salim
#198 Posted by dullabhatti on August 7, 2005 9:03:20 pm
well...I just wanted to look enthusiastic.:)
#197 Posted by dullabhatti on August 7, 2005 9:02:19 pm
May be Shanker can help Chowkstaff in this. Since it is his field.:)
#196 Posted by dullabhatti on August 7, 2005 9:00:09 pm
now that saminaji on the filter list, can Chowk staff do us another favour and start noting how many conjunctive posts a poster has...if it exn number exceeds a certain number start rating the poster as following:
up to 3 conjunctive posts Rating: Enthusiastic
3 to 6 Conjuctive posts Rating: Need Pepto Bismol
6 to 9 Conjunctive posts Rating: Get a Life
9 to 12 Conjunctive posts Rating: I need help
above 12 conjunctive posts Rating: Needs a Shrink Badly
If the conjuctive posts reach as many as 15, quarantine the Poster, demote him to a Patient and tie him to the bed.
up to 3 conjunctive posts Rating: Enthusiastic
3 to 6 Conjuctive posts Rating: Need Pepto Bismol
6 to 9 Conjunctive posts Rating: Get a Life
9 to 12 Conjunctive posts Rating: I need help
above 12 conjunctive posts Rating: Needs a Shrink Badly
If the conjuctive posts reach as many as 15, quarantine the Poster, demote him to a Patient and tie him to the bed.
#195 Posted by robinhood on August 7, 2005 6:53:19 pm
mr salim seems to be a very nice person to interact with.
sir, you have impressed me with your intellect. you deserve commendations not mistreatment as some others have vended to you. as an outsider observing nandita`s thread and the conversation running around, it is clear that Indians and Pakistanis are basically very good people but caught with their frenzy of hatred.
ms nandita: like mr dillewala said, raise your kids as atheist. this gentleman has a valid point.
sir, you have impressed me with your intellect. you deserve commendations not mistreatment as some others have vended to you. as an outsider observing nandita`s thread and the conversation running around, it is clear that Indians and Pakistanis are basically very good people but caught with their frenzy of hatred.
ms nandita: like mr dillewala said, raise your kids as atheist. this gentleman has a valid point.
#194 Posted by kalihawa on August 7, 2005 1:12:09 am
mukarramee Rezwan SaaHeb:
You have just acquired a new fan. It’s not easy to write with a detached neutral perspective. But before I go on, let me explain what I am doing here writing something apparently quite out of context.
Your log about the anonymous woman and her son Ali being robbed legally deserved front page, not this article of a whining woman flaunting her pseudo victimhood. If a name or a religion is bother, go ahead and change it. Do so without much fanfare, no one will even notice it. No body is asking you to be your own prisoner. After all your nationality or religion is not your rational choice.
About the log, one jarring note though! There was no need for wisecrack on ‘Land of Pure’; subtle inference already existed.
Well done!
aadaab arz hai,
Ciyah Naseem
You have just acquired a new fan. It’s not easy to write with a detached neutral perspective. But before I go on, let me explain what I am doing here writing something apparently quite out of context.
Your log about the anonymous woman and her son Ali being robbed legally deserved front page, not this article of a whining woman flaunting her pseudo victimhood. If a name or a religion is bother, go ahead and change it. Do so without much fanfare, no one will even notice it. No body is asking you to be your own prisoner. After all your nationality or religion is not your rational choice.
About the log, one jarring note though! There was no need for wisecrack on ‘Land of Pure’; subtle inference already existed.
Well done!
aadaab arz hai,
Ciyah Naseem
#191 Posted by shankar on August 7, 2005 12:53:27 am
Re: # 134
dilliwallah,
{{{I am not even a Muslim, but I think I know more about Islam than Pakis do.}}}
Thats cos youre an INDIAN pal!!!
Dont let those ``Islam ke mashoor pehelwans`` from the wrong side of the border....
try to feed us crap about PAKISTANI ISLAM...
Yeah!
like those bums have unilaterally put a PATENT on Islam!
dilliwallah,
{{{I am not even a Muslim, but I think I know more about Islam than Pakis do.}}}
Thats cos youre an INDIAN pal!!!
Dont let those ``Islam ke mashoor pehelwans`` from the wrong side of the border....
try to feed us crap about PAKISTANI ISLAM...
Yeah!
like those bums have unilaterally put a PATENT on Islam!
#190 Posted by shankar on August 7, 2005 12:49:51 am
Re: # 125
nandita,
You should do what my youngest (& most idiotic) brother does....
(he married a muslim girl)...
He fights with his muslim in-law relatives about how bad muslims are...
&...
He fights with us about how bad hindus are...
Then all of us exchange notes & laugh behind his back:)!!!!...
all those THAPPADS we older brothers gave him for being a GADHA...
as we were growing up....
methinks...
gave him a permanent case of dementia!!!:)))))
nandita,
You should do what my youngest (& most idiotic) brother does....
(he married a muslim girl)...
He fights with his muslim in-law relatives about how bad muslims are...
&...
He fights with us about how bad hindus are...
Then all of us exchange notes & laugh behind his back:)!!!!...
all those THAPPADS we older brothers gave him for being a GADHA...
as we were growing up....
methinks...
gave him a permanent case of dementia!!!:)))))
#189 Posted by shankar on August 7, 2005 12:21:51 am
Re: # 108
My dear cousin,
{{{My own wife has started telling me to take out the trash, ever since she started working. Taking out the trash!! - something none of my proud male Hindu ancestors would ever do..........}}}
Yaaro...
Serves you right for marrying a Pathan & not an Azaaaaaad Kashmiri!:))
My dear cousin,
{{{My own wife has started telling me to take out the trash, ever since she started working. Taking out the trash!! - something none of my proud male Hindu ancestors would ever do..........}}}
Yaaro...
Serves you right for marrying a Pathan & not an Azaaaaaad Kashmiri!:))
#188 Posted by shankar on August 7, 2005 12:19:04 am
Re: # 107
at this rate..
I think ALL of us who have been filtered out (or ASKING to be filtered out) should form a ``support group``!:))
at this rate..
I think ALL of us who have been filtered out (or ASKING to be filtered out) should form a ``support group``!:))
#187 Posted by shankar on August 7, 2005 12:15:04 am
Re: # 92
GASP!!!!
My dear cousin has been filtered out?!!!
OK
Chowk Al-Qeeda staff has just taken over the ISI!!:))
GASP!!!!
My dear cousin has been filtered out?!!!
OK
Chowk Al-Qeeda staff has just taken over the ISI!!:))
#186 Posted by shankar on August 7, 2005 12:12:35 am
Re: # 85
Saminaji filtered out of Chowk?!!
wow!
I guess its only a matter of time Al-Qeeda filters MOIS out!!
I`ll bet you certain Azaaaaaad Kashmiris would just looooove that!:))
Saminaji filtered out of Chowk?!!
wow!
I guess its only a matter of time Al-Qeeda filters MOIS out!!
I`ll bet you certain Azaaaaaad Kashmiris would just looooove that!:))
#185 Posted by shankar on August 7, 2005 12:08:23 am
Re: # 73
delhiwallah,
{{I am impressed with Pervez and his initiatives. He is good for Pakistan and he is good for India too.}}
C`maaan you Dilli northies fawn over that bugger cos be was born in Dilli...
Do you REALLY trust that Dilli da munda?!!!
When you run with the hounds...
And you give the fox a nod & a wink!
Even naieve American republicans figured him out!!!
Now when can DUMB northies get smart like us HUMBLE Bombay-ites?!:))
delhiwallah,
{{I am impressed with Pervez and his initiatives. He is good for Pakistan and he is good for India too.}}
C`maaan you Dilli northies fawn over that bugger cos be was born in Dilli...
Do you REALLY trust that Dilli da munda?!!!
When you run with the hounds...
And you give the fox a nod & a wink!
Even naieve American republicans figured him out!!!
Now when can DUMB northies get smart like us HUMBLE Bombay-ites?!:))
#183 Posted by shankar on August 6, 2005 11:48:43 pm
Re: # 31
ixno & syk-ji,
Instead of trying to ``psycho-analse`` the author;
it would beehove the 2 of you to listen to the message.
Too often I`ve heard muslims (who claim to be introspective)
curse the messenger than really reflect on the message...
Just who died & made YOU Allah?!
...or Dr Sigmund Freud for that matter?!
Your great cohorts were thed ones who declared JIHAD!...
on the KUFR world...
did`nt they?!
Then you complain its all Christian-Jewish propaganda...
TRUST ME!!
If you declare a JIHAD...
you`ll get a CRUSADE you wont BELIEVE!!...
its already started!
Khuda Hafiz
ixno & syk-ji,
Instead of trying to ``psycho-analse`` the author;
it would beehove the 2 of you to listen to the message.
Too often I`ve heard muslims (who claim to be introspective)
curse the messenger than really reflect on the message...
Just who died & made YOU Allah?!
...or Dr Sigmund Freud for that matter?!
Your great cohorts were thed ones who declared JIHAD!...
on the KUFR world...
did`nt they?!
Then you complain its all Christian-Jewish propaganda...
TRUST ME!!
If you declare a JIHAD...
you`ll get a CRUSADE you wont BELIEVE!!...
its already started!
Khuda Hafiz
#182 Posted by shankar on August 6, 2005 11:38:26 pm
Re: # 46
Scouty!!!
{{parents passing on their media fed bullshit to their kids, how sad
the other day, some fukkin redneck asked me why hindus believed in the caste system}}
Wow!!!!
Wash your mouth with soap & water 10 times!!!
I cant belieeeeeve my kid sister is using SUCH language?!!!
ALLAH!!!
WHO has spoilt Chowk`s Mother Theresa...
while I was away?!!!!
Pope(s) TAhmed & dost-mitter!
Have YOU been paying attention to THIS filth!!!!
Scouty!!!
{{parents passing on their media fed bullshit to their kids, how sad
the other day, some fukkin redneck asked me why hindus believed in the caste system}}
Wow!!!!
Wash your mouth with soap & water 10 times!!!
I cant belieeeeeve my kid sister is using SUCH language?!!!
ALLAH!!!
WHO has spoilt Chowk`s Mother Theresa...
while I was away?!!!!
Pope(s) TAhmed & dost-mitter!
Have YOU been paying attention to THIS filth!!!!
#181 Posted by shankar on August 6, 2005 10:52:32 pm
Re: # 39
delhiwala,
If there were minorities of ANY significance in Pakistan...
would there have been (like India)...
1) The PM (arguably the most POWERFUL person in India) a Sikh....
2)The President of the Congress Party (arguably the REAL power) in India...a Christian...&
...gasp!! PHOREN-born gori!!!!
3) The President of the Nation (NOMINALLY more powerful than PM..er...Kind of like ``King of the nation``) a Muslim...
heheh!
the proud FATHER of the...
HINDU bomb!!!!
Yeah yeah!
we slimy hindus SHOULD feel vicariously responsible for the actions of ...
DUKKAR Modi...
DUKKAR RSS...
DUKKAR Indira Gandhi`s goons who slaughtered innocent Sikhs after her unfortunate murder
Speaking of which,
INCIDENTALLY, ofcourse!....
whats happening to the...
the proud FATHER of the...
ISLAMIC bomb?!!!....
``His Highness`` makes the cover of Time magazine...
as the world`s most DANGEROUS man!!!!
But then its all SHAMELESS Christian-Jewish propaganda to malign Islam!!
delhiwala,
If there were minorities of ANY significance in Pakistan...
would there have been (like India)...
1) The PM (arguably the most POWERFUL person in India) a Sikh....
2)The President of the Congress Party (arguably the REAL power) in India...a Christian...&
...gasp!! PHOREN-born gori!!!!
3) The President of the Nation (NOMINALLY more powerful than PM..er...Kind of like ``King of the nation``) a Muslim...
heheh!
the proud FATHER of the...
HINDU bomb!!!!
Yeah yeah!
we slimy hindus SHOULD feel vicariously responsible for the actions of ...
DUKKAR Modi...
DUKKAR RSS...
DUKKAR Indira Gandhi`s goons who slaughtered innocent Sikhs after her unfortunate murder
Speaking of which,
INCIDENTALLY, ofcourse!....
whats happening to the...
the proud FATHER of the...
ISLAMIC bomb?!!!....
``His Highness`` makes the cover of Time magazine...
as the world`s most DANGEROUS man!!!!
But then its all SHAMELESS Christian-Jewish propaganda to malign Islam!!
#180 Posted by shankar on August 6, 2005 10:19:51 pm
Re: # 36
dost-mittar,
{{Saudi Arabia is one country which comes closest to applying the strictest laws according to the sharia, yet I have not read any reports of them killings non-muslims who seem to be attracted to the kingdom by droves because of the opportunities it offers.}}
I dont know what it is now...
but in the 70s , Saudi Arabia banned Sikhs from coming to their beknighted country (thanks to Paki dukkar propaganda)...
Besides...Saudis treat Indians and Pakistanis...BOTH...like pigs...
Goddamned Wahabi dukkars
dost-mittar,
{{Saudi Arabia is one country which comes closest to applying the strictest laws according to the sharia, yet I have not read any reports of them killings non-muslims who seem to be attracted to the kingdom by droves because of the opportunities it offers.}}
I dont know what it is now...
but in the 70s , Saudi Arabia banned Sikhs from coming to their beknighted country (thanks to Paki dukkar propaganda)...
Besides...Saudis treat Indians and Pakistanis...BOTH...like pigs...
Goddamned Wahabi dukkars
#179 Posted by shankar on August 6, 2005 10:16:06 pm
Re: # 36
dost-mittar,
I agree with your post 100%
I also happen to agree with a lot of my relatives & friends in Bombay; who I had the pleasure of visiting (& sometimes swimming to) these last few weeks.
Unfortunately, all my muslim friends are PISSED at Pakistan!.
They hate the Pakistanis more than we hindus do!!!:)
Both Dr Sohaib & Dr Kamraan (first & {last} names withheld for confidentiality)
blame the Pakistanis (& esp the Azaaaaaad Kashmiris-after 7/7) for making them feel insecure in India..
Dr Kamraan (a Sunni)`s famous quotation(s): (which I ..er..``borrowed``):
``Those Paki ba*tards have spat on the face of the Prophet...
those Paki ba*tards have converted Allah into Shaitan ..in the eyes of the non-muslim world``...
But then Kamraan`s family (we grew up just one building apart) were always die-hard Gandhians. His grandpa & mine were jailed by the British at the same time. His mother & father were the ones, from whom, I appreciated ``fine-Islamic cusine`` & (UNQUESTIONING hospitality)...when a 10 yr old slimy brahmin ruffian (such as me) would come to their house un-announced (& uninvited) & sit with THEIR family for lunch!:))
I STILL do!
& poor ammi INSISTS I do!!!:))))
Much to MY mummy`s chagrin!!!!:))))))))
But the GREATEST irony is Dr Sohaib, my jigri dost from med school (a Shia)...
who was the BIGGEST fan of Pakistan...
he knew more about Pakistani cricket statistics than Indian cricket stats!:))))
until a distant relative of his (a doctor) was SHOT DEAD IN COLD BLOOD!!!!!...
in the streets of Karachi...
Funny...how time changes people!
I guess the most thought provoking statement was made by my uncle (a die-hard Congressman);
``We hindus are a majority that BEHAVES like a minority!``
dost-mittar,
I agree with your post 100%
I also happen to agree with a lot of my relatives & friends in Bombay; who I had the pleasure of visiting (& sometimes swimming to) these last few weeks.
Unfortunately, all my muslim friends are PISSED at Pakistan!.
They hate the Pakistanis more than we hindus do!!!:)
Both Dr Sohaib & Dr Kamraan (first & {last} names withheld for confidentiality)
blame the Pakistanis (& esp the Azaaaaaad Kashmiris-after 7/7) for making them feel insecure in India..
Dr Kamraan (a Sunni)`s famous quotation(s): (which I ..er..``borrowed``):
``Those Paki ba*tards have spat on the face of the Prophet...
those Paki ba*tards have converted Allah into Shaitan ..in the eyes of the non-muslim world``...
But then Kamraan`s family (we grew up just one building apart) were always die-hard Gandhians. His grandpa & mine were jailed by the British at the same time. His mother & father were the ones, from whom, I appreciated ``fine-Islamic cusine`` & (UNQUESTIONING hospitality)...when a 10 yr old slimy brahmin ruffian (such as me) would come to their house un-announced (& uninvited) & sit with THEIR family for lunch!:))
I STILL do!
& poor ammi INSISTS I do!!!:))))
Much to MY mummy`s chagrin!!!!:))))))))
But the GREATEST irony is Dr Sohaib, my jigri dost from med school (a Shia)...
who was the BIGGEST fan of Pakistan...
he knew more about Pakistani cricket statistics than Indian cricket stats!:))))
until a distant relative of his (a doctor) was SHOT DEAD IN COLD BLOOD!!!!!...
in the streets of Karachi...
Funny...how time changes people!
I guess the most thought provoking statement was made by my uncle (a die-hard Congressman);
``We hindus are a majority that BEHAVES like a minority!``
#178 Posted by rsribhar on August 6, 2005 6:49:34 am
Dillidost Re: # 169
{``Was`nt Bhutto`s grand mother a Hindu woman from Maharashtra? ``}
Yes, Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto`s mother was from a Hindu background. She was also Nehru`s ``girl friend`` before befriending Sir Shah Nawaz Bhutto, ZAB`s dad. This much is public knowledge.
During the reign of Zia-ul-Haq, a nasty rumor was circulated that the elder Mrs. Bhutto came to Mr. Shahnawaz, already impregnated by you know who. Much was made about this possiblity and people actually saw similarities in the features of ZAB and Nehru. It was also claimed that Indira cut ZAB some slack at Simla precisely because she started liking him as a younger brother (OK half of a younger brother!). It was considered very apropos when Rajiv sat together with Benazir when both were heading up their countries` respective governments - they looked like cousins. Of course, all this is hearsay.
Salim
{``Was`nt Bhutto`s grand mother a Hindu woman from Maharashtra? ``}
Yes, Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto`s mother was from a Hindu background. She was also Nehru`s ``girl friend`` before befriending Sir Shah Nawaz Bhutto, ZAB`s dad. This much is public knowledge.
During the reign of Zia-ul-Haq, a nasty rumor was circulated that the elder Mrs. Bhutto came to Mr. Shahnawaz, already impregnated by you know who. Much was made about this possiblity and people actually saw similarities in the features of ZAB and Nehru. It was also claimed that Indira cut ZAB some slack at Simla precisely because she started liking him as a younger brother (OK half of a younger brother!). It was considered very apropos when Rajiv sat together with Benazir when both were heading up their countries` respective governments - they looked like cousins. Of course, all this is hearsay.
Salim
#177 Posted by rsribhar on August 6, 2005 6:42:51 am
Romair #165 {``It would kind of cool to start a religion>``}
I always knew there was something terribly wrong with you. That is exactly why all this time I had avoided interacting with you. Now that you have seen fit to insult my Turkish relatives, I am honor-bound to eradicate you before your stupid religion takes root. Consider yourself a martyr, Romanian.
I always knew there was something terribly wrong with you. That is exactly why all this time I had avoided interacting with you. Now that you have seen fit to insult my Turkish relatives, I am honor-bound to eradicate you before your stupid religion takes root. Consider yourself a martyr, Romanian.
#176 Posted by rsribhar on August 6, 2005 6:39:45 am
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#175 Posted by delhiwala on August 6, 2005 6:37:18 am
Re: # 169
Was`nt Bhutto`s grand mother a Hindu woman from Maharashtra?
I am pretty certain I have read this somewhere. Can some Paki check into this?
Bhutto would be considerd napak living in pak-istan now....hehe.
maybe that is why she does not live there.
Was`nt Bhutto`s grand mother a Hindu woman from Maharashtra?
I am pretty certain I have read this somewhere. Can some Paki check into this?
Bhutto would be considerd napak living in pak-istan now....hehe.
maybe that is why she does not live there.
#173 Posted by rsribhar on August 6, 2005 6:35:10 am
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#172 Posted by delhiwala on August 6, 2005 6:33:03 am
Re: # 165
Your countrymen will kill you for this blasphemy, I am cool with it. I always show the Malls in America to Indian friends as ``Temples of American Worship`` and LV is the Mecca.
Your countrymen will kill you for this blasphemy, I am cool with it. I always show the Malls in America to Indian friends as ``Temples of American Worship`` and LV is the Mecca.
#171 Posted by delhiwala on August 6, 2005 6:31:11 am
Re: # 167
You are right on many fronts here. Yes, Muslims do get preference in many spheres in India, especially in Nampalli(Hyderabad), A.P.
It might be hard for outsiders to understand because Muslims are in minority and the successive govts try to give a secular face, except TDP and while doing so they give special insentives to them. I remember that ally muslim friends in high school, got into Engg colleges or Medical colleges bases on one quota or another with very lower grades.
You are right on many fronts here. Yes, Muslims do get preference in many spheres in India, especially in Nampalli(Hyderabad), A.P.
It might be hard for outsiders to understand because Muslims are in minority and the successive govts try to give a secular face, except TDP and while doing so they give special insentives to them. I remember that ally muslim friends in high school, got into Engg colleges or Medical colleges bases on one quota or another with very lower grades.
#170 Posted by delhiwala on August 6, 2005 6:27:30 am
Re: # 169
Salim,
This guy is creepy man. He posts all the negative stuff about me all the time and then try to sound good. he is so fricking hollow.
Go away, Khamkhwa.
Salim,
This guy is creepy man. He posts all the negative stuff about me all the time and then try to sound good. he is so fricking hollow.
Go away, Khamkhwa.
#169 Posted by rsribhar on August 6, 2005 6:06:46 am
#158 by khamkhwa. on August 5, 2005 4:17pm PT
{``people do not believe that you are married...it`s for obvious reasons...which is due to your lies from day one on chowk...remember when you said that you are a middle aged professor ...then you reported to be single, working in a strip joint and then you got a job and a wife in Turkey...so all that bs has eroded your crediblity...now tp prove to the good people of chowk that you are mattied...please post your and ypour wife`s shadi ki picture along with a copy of the nikahnama...and then see how every one believes you and loves like i do...
your only genuine friend on chowk... ``}
Khamkhwa,
If you are my only genuine friend on Chowk, I am glad that I don`t have any genuine enemeies. :)
If you failed to see the humor in the one message where I played the middle-aged college professor, then you are indeed comedy-challenged and I can`t help you. Lack of humor is a normal trait among Pakis and might just be the real root of their problems.
Thank God I live in Turkey, where, unlike Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and Iran, couples do not need to carry their wedding pictures and ``nikahnamas`` with them in their wallets and purses. BTW, I no longer manage a strip joint, so please don`t expect me to find you a job there.
I am flattered that you have attempted to follow my life so thoroughly. When are you writing your book?
Salim
{``people do not believe that you are married...it`s for obvious reasons...which is due to your lies from day one on chowk...remember when you said that you are a middle aged professor ...then you reported to be single, working in a strip joint and then you got a job and a wife in Turkey...so all that bs has eroded your crediblity...now tp prove to the good people of chowk that you are mattied...please post your and ypour wife`s shadi ki picture along with a copy of the nikahnama...and then see how every one believes you and loves like i do...
your only genuine friend on chowk... ``}
Khamkhwa,
If you are my only genuine friend on Chowk, I am glad that I don`t have any genuine enemeies. :)
If you failed to see the humor in the one message where I played the middle-aged college professor, then you are indeed comedy-challenged and I can`t help you. Lack of humor is a normal trait among Pakis and might just be the real root of their problems.
Thank God I live in Turkey, where, unlike Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and Iran, couples do not need to carry their wedding pictures and ``nikahnamas`` with them in their wallets and purses. BTW, I no longer manage a strip joint, so please don`t expect me to find you a job there.
I am flattered that you have attempted to follow my life so thoroughly. When are you writing your book?
Salim
#168 Posted by rsribhar on August 6, 2005 6:00:25 am
Harimau #167, {``disadvantaged under 300+ years of rule by the Nizam dynasty who, if my memory serves me right, were Hindus and were demanding integration with India in August 1947.``}
Harry,
That`s what I like about Chowk - you learn something new every day. :)
Salim
Harry,
That`s what I like about Chowk - you learn something new every day. :)
Salim
#167 Posted by harimau on August 6, 2005 4:53:23 am
Ms. Nandita Baig,
Please ignore all the advice about bringing up your children as agnostics or ``Indians``.
If nothing else, your children will be getting a subsidized airplane ride to Mecca as Muslims.
The state of Andhra Pradesh is planning on reserving 5% of the government land give-away to Muslims, who were SO disadvantaged under 300+ years of rule by the Nizam dynasty who, if my memory serves me right, were Hindus and were demanding integration with India in August 1947. Urstruly, Khamkhwa, Ali_1, and Mantolives among other Pakistanis on Chowk could shed more light on this.
What I mean is, it is more important in India to be Muslim than Hindu. So, by all means follow what is written in The Book to End All Books and raise your children according to the faith they were born into.
Please ignore all the advice about bringing up your children as agnostics or ``Indians``.
If nothing else, your children will be getting a subsidized airplane ride to Mecca as Muslims.
The state of Andhra Pradesh is planning on reserving 5% of the government land give-away to Muslims, who were SO disadvantaged under 300+ years of rule by the Nizam dynasty who, if my memory serves me right, were Hindus and were demanding integration with India in August 1947. Urstruly, Khamkhwa, Ali_1, and Mantolives among other Pakistanis on Chowk could shed more light on this.
What I mean is, it is more important in India to be Muslim than Hindu. So, by all means follow what is written in The Book to End All Books and raise your children according to the faith they were born into.
#166 Posted by dullabhatti on August 6, 2005 12:11:28 am
But they are a dying breed (not to mention, a somewhat intellectually challenged lot), so it shouldn`t be too difficult to compete with them for linguistic rights. And the ones that resist, we can forcefully convert. Or bribe them with a truck repair shop, which they all seem to love owning here in Canada.........
I thought you were starting a new religion:-)
I thought you were starting a new religion:-)
#165 Posted by Romair on August 5, 2005 11:40:30 pm
It would kind of cool to start a religion. A lot cooler than discussing it, the whole day, I think. Why discuss something? Why not jump in the water, and actually start something......
I, hereby, start a religion called Din-e-Romair. I declare myself its first prophet. Our language of choice will be Punjabi, thereby giving new life to an almost dead language. We will face some competition from Sardarjis in that area. But they are a dying breed (not to mention, a somewhat intellectually challenged lot), so it shouldn`t be too difficult to compete with them for linguistic rights. And the ones that resist, we can forcefully convert. Or bribe them with a truck repair shop, which they all seem to love owning here in Canada.........
Our motto will be, ``Khullay khao, tay nangay nahao.`` (for the uneducated, it translates to: Eat well and openly and take baths naked and openly). As the founder of the faith, that will be my first and only hadith. We will, thus, be a clothing optional faith, with heavy emphasis on good food (nihari, lassi, sri payee, gurday kaporay, mithay chawal etc.). Anyone who is 1/3rd this and 2/10th that, is the first group will shall target, as recruits. They seem a very confused lot, and should be easy to convert. We will have one condition for conversion: all the ladies joining the religion will have to be good looking (or at least have a good-looking sister or cousin). Unfortunately, that may limit the induction of our South Indian sisters, but, well, what can we do.......
Our holy sites will be located in Las Vegas, Pebble Beach, French Riveria, Maldive Islands and the Swiss Alps. That way our co-religionists can do their pilgrimage and enjoy a nice vacation, at the same time...........
The remaining details of the faith will be released, once the website is up and running........
I, hereby, start a religion called Din-e-Romair. I declare myself its first prophet. Our language of choice will be Punjabi, thereby giving new life to an almost dead language. We will face some competition from Sardarjis in that area. But they are a dying breed (not to mention, a somewhat intellectually challenged lot), so it shouldn`t be too difficult to compete with them for linguistic rights. And the ones that resist, we can forcefully convert. Or bribe them with a truck repair shop, which they all seem to love owning here in Canada.........
Our motto will be, ``Khullay khao, tay nangay nahao.`` (for the uneducated, it translates to: Eat well and openly and take baths naked and openly). As the founder of the faith, that will be my first and only hadith. We will, thus, be a clothing optional faith, with heavy emphasis on good food (nihari, lassi, sri payee, gurday kaporay, mithay chawal etc.). Anyone who is 1/3rd this and 2/10th that, is the first group will shall target, as recruits. They seem a very confused lot, and should be easy to convert. We will have one condition for conversion: all the ladies joining the religion will have to be good looking (or at least have a good-looking sister or cousin). Unfortunately, that may limit the induction of our South Indian sisters, but, well, what can we do.......
Our holy sites will be located in Las Vegas, Pebble Beach, French Riveria, Maldive Islands and the Swiss Alps. That way our co-religionists can do their pilgrimage and enjoy a nice vacation, at the same time...........
The remaining details of the faith will be released, once the website is up and running........
#164 Posted by nandita on August 5, 2005 10:46:52 pm
Re: # 151
Sure, personally they can and will decide. Maybe they will go the Buddhist way..who knows? Or be agnostic, atheiset whatever. However, it is this last name that, pre determines all of us as muslims...in fact, when I hypotheticly asked, if me and my husband wanted to adopt a child, here in India, I was told we would not be able to because we would come under Islamic law where adoption was not allowed. Thats just an example. And whereas my husband as a child always wrote Indian in forms where religion was asked, frankly that is not a religion and you HAVE to write a religion. Maybe my kids can write the fractions.:).
Sure, personally they can and will decide. Maybe they will go the Buddhist way..who knows? Or be agnostic, atheiset whatever. However, it is this last name that, pre determines all of us as muslims...in fact, when I hypotheticly asked, if me and my husband wanted to adopt a child, here in India, I was told we would not be able to because we would come under Islamic law where adoption was not allowed. Thats just an example. And whereas my husband as a child always wrote Indian in forms where religion was asked, frankly that is not a religion and you HAVE to write a religion. Maybe my kids can write the fractions.:).
#163 Posted by mog on August 5, 2005 7:49:16 pm
nandita ji dont worry dont worry about the religion thing after some time the children will adjust and figure out things but more importantly what will the adults do so you can teach your child the meaning agnostic or something but what will you do when the boy has to fill up forms and things like that and also my experience is that in biggest of diverse families also sometimes the pure strains as they call themselves within the fmily will put spokes.
rejoice rejoice in your world citizen child and hve 7 more!!
rejoice rejoice in your world citizen child and hve 7 more!!
#162 Posted by teshah on August 5, 2005 7:34:50 pm
There is lot of filtering going on in chowk of late especially on this article. I wonder what was objectionable in my post at 116 inspite of the prechecking. I would suggest that the chowk staff may let us know what was specfically objectionable so that we may avoid it in future, if not on chowk, through a personal e-mail.
Our family also had a problem of identity. My great grand-father had married a Hindu woman. Despite the fact that she had converted to islam and came to be known as `Sheikhani` my grandy`s father disinherited him. So we came to be called `Sheikhani Syed` by our biradari at large. We must be having Hindu relatives but we don`t know any of them. We however felt extraordinary affinity to Hidus even when we knew nothing about our history. The best fried of my father was a Hindu gentleman and so was mine whom we lost on partition. I wonder whether this affinity to Hindus was it in our genes.
Our family also had a problem of identity. My great grand-father had married a Hindu woman. Despite the fact that she had converted to islam and came to be known as `Sheikhani` my grandy`s father disinherited him. So we came to be called `Sheikhani Syed` by our biradari at large. We must be having Hindu relatives but we don`t know any of them. We however felt extraordinary affinity to Hidus even when we knew nothing about our history. The best fried of my father was a Hindu gentleman and so was mine whom we lost on partition. I wonder whether this affinity to Hindus was it in our genes.
#161 Posted by robinhood on August 5, 2005 6:38:40 pm
Re: # 157
Actually, they have been happening for many centuries in Pakistan.
Actually, they have been happening for many centuries in Pakistan.
#160 Posted by dullabhatti on August 5, 2005 4:47:33 pm
Nandita: what I get from your article and posts so for is that your husband is not practicing muslim or even does not consider himself a muslim(only his grandfather was a muslim)...since he married you in a Hindu ceremony that means he does not consider himself muslim. If that is the case then I can`t understand how only having a name like Baig makes one muslim?
I am surpirzed no one pointed out so for that Baig is not a muslim name ..it is an ethnic name of Central asia...the name existed before Islam...just because most people of last name Baig or muslims does not make a Baig muslim.
Kids who think your son is a muslim by virtue of having surname Baig are mistakedn...what I don`t understand is you keep accepting that as correct.
If your husband is not a muslim and obviously you are not either, then how your son becomes a muslim(inspite of alledgations by other kids) unless your son has convrted at the age of 5?
There are lot other names which are entirely muslims but some Hindus have the same name also..e.g. Sial is a Muslim surname from Pakistan.....once in a while you will bump into a Sial who is Hindu.
Baig is an ethnic name not a muslim name. All your son has to say to his friend is.... oh you guys are so stupid that you don;t even know that Baig is not a muslim ONLY name...hey Johny Walker was a taliban muslim..does that make Dubya a Muslim?
I am surpirzed no one pointed out so for that Baig is not a muslim name ..it is an ethnic name of Central asia...the name existed before Islam...just because most people of last name Baig or muslims does not make a Baig muslim.
Kids who think your son is a muslim by virtue of having surname Baig are mistakedn...what I don`t understand is you keep accepting that as correct.
If your husband is not a muslim and obviously you are not either, then how your son becomes a muslim(inspite of alledgations by other kids) unless your son has convrted at the age of 5?
There are lot other names which are entirely muslims but some Hindus have the same name also..e.g. Sial is a Muslim surname from Pakistan.....once in a while you will bump into a Sial who is Hindu.
Baig is an ethnic name not a muslim name. All your son has to say to his friend is.... oh you guys are so stupid that you don;t even know that Baig is not a muslim ONLY name...hey Johny Walker was a taliban muslim..does that make Dubya a Muslim?
#159 Posted by dullabhatti on August 5, 2005 4:38:54 pm
Dehliwala: A famous sikh writer Kartar Singh Duggal of Delhi`s wife was a victim of partition and he let her follow her religion.
Duggal`s wife Ayesha was not a victim of parition in the literal sense..bur Duggal was. let me explain. Duggal as of Aug 1st 1947 was working as program director or some thing at Lahroe Radio station and was sen to that week to New Delhi to cover the Independence celebrations by his, I think, muslim boss. One his friends in Lahore was no one else but Ali sardar Jafri`s wife Sultana. Sultana`s younger sister Aysha was studying in some Medical school in New Dehli so Sultana gave Duggal her phone number or address to meet her. (girl`s fmaily was from kanpur or soemplace)...anyways....the way whole thing was happening Duggal ws supposed to come back to Alhroe and report to his job after this assignment....that really tells you how most people tought this is going to be...going back to their homes after riots are over.....Duggal and Ayesa were present in new Delhi on Aug 15th celebrations and some english newspaper even covered this story of two young friends a Sikh boy and a muslim girl celebrating independence of India and looking to a great secular future blah blah...... Duggal and Ayesha came close to each other in coming weeks and decided to marry with in few months....meanwhile Duggal`s fmaily was uprooted from Rawalpindi and whatever left arrived in Delhi also.
Interestingly when arrangement was made to report kidnapped women from each side and send them to their families, some peopel from Ayesha`s family in Lahore reported that Duggal has kidnapped their cousin Ayesha....that eld to soem torubles for the couple.. but eventually things calmed down.
Duggala dn ayesha have a son and a daughter....both raised in a mixed environment..Duggal considers his kids` mothertonge to be Urdu as Ayesha is from Khalis urdu background...Duggal and Dr Ayesha has been very popular in Indian scene all their lives, including a friendship and relations with Ali Jafri.
Duggal`s wife Ayesha was not a victim of parition in the literal sense..bur Duggal was. let me explain. Duggal as of Aug 1st 1947 was working as program director or some thing at Lahroe Radio station and was sen to that week to New Delhi to cover the Independence celebrations by his, I think, muslim boss. One his friends in Lahore was no one else but Ali sardar Jafri`s wife Sultana. Sultana`s younger sister Aysha was studying in some Medical school in New Dehli so Sultana gave Duggal her phone number or address to meet her. (girl`s fmaily was from kanpur or soemplace)...anyways....the way whole thing was happening Duggal ws supposed to come back to Alhroe and report to his job after this assignment....that really tells you how most people tought this is going to be...going back to their homes after riots are over.....Duggal and Ayesa were present in new Delhi on Aug 15th celebrations and some english newspaper even covered this story of two young friends a Sikh boy and a muslim girl celebrating independence of India and looking to a great secular future blah blah...... Duggal and Ayesha came close to each other in coming weeks and decided to marry with in few months....meanwhile Duggal`s fmaily was uprooted from Rawalpindi and whatever left arrived in Delhi also.
Interestingly when arrangement was made to report kidnapped women from each side and send them to their families, some peopel from Ayesha`s family in Lahore reported that Duggal has kidnapped their cousin Ayesha....that eld to soem torubles for the couple.. but eventually things calmed down.
Duggala dn ayesha have a son and a daughter....both raised in a mixed environment..Duggal considers his kids` mothertonge to be Urdu as Ayesha is from Khalis urdu background...Duggal and Dr Ayesha has been very popular in Indian scene all their lives, including a friendship and relations with Ali Jafri.
#158 Posted by khamkhwa. on August 5, 2005 4:17:40 pm
Re: # 154
salim yaar...
people do not believe that you are married...it`s for obvious reasons...which is due to your lies from day one on chowk...remember when you said that you are a middle aged professor who is conducting a survey of human behaviour with your middle aged wife and then you reported to be single, working in a strip joint and then you got a job and a wife in Turkey...so all that bs has eroded your crediblity...now tp prove to the good people of chowk that you are mattied...please post your and ypour wife`s shadi ki picture along with a copy of the nikahnama...and then see how every one believes you and loves like i do...
your only genuine friend on chowk...
khamkhwa
baqalam khud...;)
salim yaar...
people do not believe that you are married...it`s for obvious reasons...which is due to your lies from day one on chowk...remember when you said that you are a middle aged professor who is conducting a survey of human behaviour with your middle aged wife and then you reported to be single, working in a strip joint and then you got a job and a wife in Turkey...so all that bs has eroded your crediblity...now tp prove to the good people of chowk that you are mattied...please post your and ypour wife`s shadi ki picture along with a copy of the nikahnama...and then see how every one believes you and loves like i do...
your only genuine friend on chowk...
khamkhwa
baqalam khud...;)
#157 Posted by aslam644 on August 5, 2005 3:25:42 pm
Marriages between muslims and other faiths in the UK is rare, but marriages between muslims of different national background is fairly common and growing , one of the 7/7 bomber was married to Indian gujrati muslim.
There is a new trend young Pakistani men going over to Morocco to marry, I wonder why.
BTW the first honour killing I read about in the 70’s was a sikh killing his daughter because she was going out with muslim boy.
There is a new trend young Pakistani men going over to Morocco to marry, I wonder why.
BTW the first honour killing I read about in the 70’s was a sikh killing his daughter because she was going out with muslim boy.
#156 Posted by dost_mittar on August 5, 2005 3:14:28 pm
Raw-Dust:
``i think, kids not their last names should decide whatever they wanna be .. once they are done growing up.``
This is what should happen in an ideal world. In almost every case, however, our religious identies were formed before we became adults.
If I were a dictator, I would ban all baptismal ceremonies, such as circumcision, mundan, etc. for kids until they have reached adulthood. People should be able to choose or change their religion in life just as they change their votes for political parties; however social excommunications, not to speak of death in certain cases, would prevent this from happening.
``i think, kids not their last names should decide whatever they wanna be .. once they are done growing up.``
This is what should happen in an ideal world. In almost every case, however, our religious identies were formed before we became adults.
If I were a dictator, I would ban all baptismal ceremonies, such as circumcision, mundan, etc. for kids until they have reached adulthood. People should be able to choose or change their religion in life just as they change their votes for political parties; however social excommunications, not to speak of death in certain cases, would prevent this from happening.
#155 Posted by aslam644 on August 5, 2005 3:05:17 pm
First of all I’d like to complain to chowk staff about this imposter ASLAM777 using similar nic to mine.
#154 Posted by rsribhar on August 5, 2005 2:59:22 pm
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#153 Posted by rsribhar on August 5, 2005 2:46:08 pm
#152, {``They were having a lot of problem with that, the last time, we met.........I wonder if he ever got married.......``}
If one`s mixed parentage, as far as religion is concerned, becomes a problem with getting married then one has much bigger problems than getting married. :)
Salim
If one`s mixed parentage, as far as religion is concerned, becomes a problem with getting married then one has much bigger problems than getting married. :)
Salim
#152 Posted by Romair on August 5, 2005 2:20:14 pm
Knew an Indian Hindu husband-Muslim wife elderly family, who had migrated to the USA. Very nice couple. Actually husband was a very nice guy. Wife could get a bit irritating (though only a bit). Had a son whom they raised as a Muslim. Everything seemed to be going along fine, until they tried to find a rishta for him. They were having a lot of problem with that, the last time, we met.........I wonder if he ever got married.......
#151 Posted by Raw_Dust on August 5, 2005 1:08:39 pm
re: nandita
``my kids are apparantly muslim.....!``
i think, kids not their last names should decide whatever they wanna be .. once they are done growing up.
cheers.
``my kids are apparantly muslim.....!``
i think, kids not their last names should decide whatever they wanna be .. once they are done growing up.
cheers.
#150 Posted by chowkstaff on August 5, 2005 12:51:30 pm
Chowk InterAct! space is for discussing ideas presented in the article, we expect members to respect this space and advise you to take other discussions either to unplugged forums or your personal correspondence.
#149 Posted by nandita on August 5, 2005 12:13:59 pm
I didn`t have a nikah...I actually had a hindu ceremony followed by a civil special marriages Act ceremony! But, the surname is Muslim and according to the laws of the land...my kids are apparantly muslim.....!
#148 Posted by rsribhar on August 5, 2005 10:00:34 am
#143, I always thought that the ``People of the Book`` stuff was very confusing. Most of Muslims` major struggles were with the so-called ``People of the Book.``
By the way, Dillidost,
Don`t forget Raj Babbar and his wife - was it Nadira?
Two of my own female cousins in Jaipur are married to wonderfu Hindu husbands.
What matters most is that people are happy. I am very happy - even though my wife is a Sunni.
Salim.
By the way, Dillidost,
Don`t forget Raj Babbar and his wife - was it Nadira?
Two of my own female cousins in Jaipur are married to wonderfu Hindu husbands.
What matters most is that people are happy. I am very happy - even though my wife is a Sunni.
Salim.
#147 Posted by rsribhar on August 5, 2005 9:54:46 am
#142, You are always welcome, Robinhood. Good to know that you will be interacting on Chowk.
Salim
Salim
#146 Posted by dost_mittar on August 5, 2005 9:31:31 am
delhiwala#143:
Yes, it was pre-mughal. In fact, it might have been Mohammad bin Qasim himself.
Yes, it was pre-mughal. In fact, it might have been Mohammad bin Qasim himself.
#145 Posted by delhiwala on August 5, 2005 9:30:19 am
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#144 Posted by bongdongs on August 5, 2005 9:29:43 am
#141
Kabir, was the obvious choice in my family :-)
Kabir, was the obvious choice in my family :-)
#143 Posted by delhiwala on August 5, 2005 9:28:05 am
Re: # 141
Uncle Jee Sat Sri Akaal,
I did not know about this Khalifa stuff. Kerra Khalifa si?
Must be Razia sultana`s time(pre Mughal).
I can think of many such examples, Salman Khan`s mother is a Hindu.
Nargis was half-half and so would be Sanjay Dutt.
A famous sikh writer Kartar Singh Duggal of Delhi`s wife was a victim of partition and he let her follow her religion.
Most likely, the product of such marriages end up being atheist, unless one of the two parents were devout in their own faith.
Uncle Jee Sat Sri Akaal,
I did not know about this Khalifa stuff. Kerra Khalifa si?
Must be Razia sultana`s time(pre Mughal).
I can think of many such examples, Salman Khan`s mother is a Hindu.
Nargis was half-half and so would be Sanjay Dutt.
A famous sikh writer Kartar Singh Duggal of Delhi`s wife was a victim of partition and he let her follow her religion.
Most likely, the product of such marriages end up being atheist, unless one of the two parents were devout in their own faith.
#142 Posted by robinhood on August 5, 2005 9:19:29 am
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#141 Posted by dost_mittar on August 5, 2005 9:16:27 am
Saj1981:
One of the early sultans in India went to the Caliph and succeeded in getting his Hindu subjects ``upgraded`` to the dhimmi status, namely they were allowed the same status as the people of the book; consequently, any Indian maulvi will gladly do the nikah of a muslim man and hindu woman. But if it is the reverse case, no maulvi would agree to a nikh-nama and they would have to go the civil marriage route; indeed many hindu women marrying muslim men also insist upon going the civil marriage route.
As an interesting aside, one of my close relatives in a hindu-muslim marriage have named their son, Yoshi, because they did not want him to be identified as either hindu or muslim.
One of the early sultans in India went to the Caliph and succeeded in getting his Hindu subjects ``upgraded`` to the dhimmi status, namely they were allowed the same status as the people of the book; consequently, any Indian maulvi will gladly do the nikah of a muslim man and hindu woman. But if it is the reverse case, no maulvi would agree to a nikh-nama and they would have to go the civil marriage route; indeed many hindu women marrying muslim men also insist upon going the civil marriage route.
As an interesting aside, one of my close relatives in a hindu-muslim marriage have named their son, Yoshi, because they did not want him to be identified as either hindu or muslim.
#140 Posted by Faruk on August 5, 2005 9:07:48 am
Re: delhiwala # 132
In the Indian context a marriage involving individuals of different faiths is a civil marriage, so the nikhanama has no bearing in such a marriage.
Regards,
Faruk
In the Indian context a marriage involving individuals of different faiths is a civil marriage, so the nikhanama has no bearing in such a marriage.
Regards,
Faruk
#139 Posted by rsribhar on August 5, 2005 9:03:56 am
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#138 Posted by rsribhar on August 5, 2005 8:56:56 am
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#137 Posted by robinhood on August 5, 2005 8:54:11 am
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#136 Posted by delhiwala on August 5, 2005 8:47:17 am
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#135 Posted by rsribhar on August 5, 2005 8:44:38 am
#134, Dillidost {``I am not even a Muslim, but I think I know more about Islam than Pakis do.``}
You know, I kind of believe that. Not only do you know more about Islam than most Pakis, you even behave more like a Muslim than most Pakis. :)
Salim
You know, I kind of believe that. Not only do you know more about Islam than most Pakis, you even behave more like a Muslim than most Pakis. :)
Salim
#134 Posted by delhiwala on August 5, 2005 8:40:18 am
Re: # 132
Whatever is written on the NikahNama dictates wheather this is halal or not.
Yes, it is mentioned in the Shariat that children of the tree of Abrahim can be inter-wed. But nowhere it says that others cannot be.
Most likely Nandita`s NiqahNama has some clause in it, whereby she is agreeing to be a partner of Muslim and children would be Muslim. Otherwise
If Nandita did not have her marriage nama then as per Shariat her marriage is annulled(AS PER SHARIAT), Common Law does not give a hoot about it.
One of cousin married an Irani Man against her parents wishes, he is a great guy and he even converted to a fringe sect of Sikhs and participates in their Sufi like meditation. This marriage was without a Nikahnama and this couple is raising their kids as all American-Secular-atheist.
(talking to myself)
I am not even a Muslim, but I think I know more about Islam than Pakis do.
Whatever is written on the NikahNama dictates wheather this is halal or not.
Yes, it is mentioned in the Shariat that children of the tree of Abrahim can be inter-wed. But nowhere it says that others cannot be.
Most likely Nandita`s NiqahNama has some clause in it, whereby she is agreeing to be a partner of Muslim and children would be Muslim. Otherwise
If Nandita did not have her marriage nama then as per Shariat her marriage is annulled(AS PER SHARIAT), Common Law does not give a hoot about it.
One of cousin married an Irani Man against her parents wishes, he is a great guy and he even converted to a fringe sect of Sikhs and participates in their Sufi like meditation. This marriage was without a Nikahnama and this couple is raising their kids as all American-Secular-atheist.
(talking to myself)
I am not even a Muslim, but I think I know more about Islam than Pakis do.
#133 Posted by rsribhar on August 5, 2005 8:19:13 am
#131 by Faruk on August 5, 2005 7:55am PT
{`` My mother is French Christian and my father an Indian Muslim. It worked best for me to celebrate my diverse heritage. I think my kids will go through the same thing. My wife is Italian. ``}
Faruk,
I am really impressed. You have an ever more diverse background than I.
Good for you. Ipiaceri.
Salim
{`` My mother is French Christian and my father an Indian Muslim. It worked best for me to celebrate my diverse heritage. I think my kids will go through the same thing. My wife is Italian. ``}
Faruk,
I am really impressed. You have an ever more diverse background than I.
Good for you. Ipiaceri.
Salim
#132 Posted by Saj1981 on August 5, 2005 7:57:28 am
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#131 Posted by Faruk on August 5, 2005 7:55:56 am
Just read this article and all the post. It’s an interesting article, I can relate to your son’s dilemma. My mother is French Christian and my father an Indian Muslim. It worked best for me to celebrate my diverse heritage. I think my kids will go through the same thing. My wife is Italian.
Regards,
Faruk
Regards,
Faruk
#130 Posted by rsribhar on August 5, 2005 7:54:43 am
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#129 Posted by robinhood on August 5, 2005 7:18:23 am
nandita,
i just followed the whole trail of this thread and sincerely think that you should let your children be secular and somebody pokes them then they should say that they are atheist.
this might work for them.
i just followed the whole trail of this thread and sincerely think that you should let your children be secular and somebody pokes them then they should say that they are atheist.
this might work for them.
#128 Posted by nandita on August 5, 2005 7:08:58 am
Re: # 119
It is a matter of concern, if ones child is confused on any account and as a parent one should attempt to address the confuson.
It is a matter of concern, if ones child is confused on any account and as a parent one should attempt to address the confuson.
#127 Posted by nandita on August 5, 2005 7:08:12 am
Re: # 119
It is a matter of concern, if ones child is confused on any account and as a parent one should attempt to address the confuson.
It is a matter of concern, if ones child is confused on any account and as a parent one should attempt to address the confuson.
#126 Posted by dost_mittar on August 5, 2005 6:46:23 am
nandita#126:
In that case, neither is your son (btw I said so in my first comment on this article!) and he should not have any identity crisis.
But this does not solve the problem you are poiniting to, which is real. If you are living in India, there has been an upsurge of anti-muslim hysteria and it is not all related to 9/11. People ought to differentiate between bin-ladinism, political islam and muslims.
In that case, neither is your son (btw I said so in my first comment on this article!) and he should not have any identity crisis.
But this does not solve the problem you are poiniting to, which is real. If you are living in India, there has been an upsurge of anti-muslim hysteria and it is not all related to 9/11. People ought to differentiate between bin-ladinism, political islam and muslims.
#125 Posted by nandita on August 5, 2005 6:07:35 am
You are right, it is political identity I am talking about. ...
And according to the points in post#26 neither my husband or son are muslims!!
And according to the points in post#26 neither my husband or son are muslims!!
#124 Posted by dost_mittar on August 5, 2005 5:54:34 am
nanditaji#122:
There should be no confusion regarding your children`s religious identity. Delhiwala in his post#26 gave succinct criteria for deciding whether your son is Muslim or not.
There are two aspects to religion - faith and political identity. As far as faith is concerned, it is a personal matter, you could believe in any holy book, ideology, or none. India`s President is said to recite the Bhagvad Gita, still he remains a Muslim.
The other is the political identity, and this is what you are really talking about. Neither Savarkar nor Jinnah nor Advani practised their religions but they all had/have strong religious idenities. It is quite clear that your Hindu identity is weak or else you would not have married a Muslim knowing that Islam explicitly uses inter-religious marriage as one of the prescribed means of expanding Muslim Ummah: A Muslim man marrying a non-muslim is not breaking his religious rules, the qur`an encourages it, but it does not allow a muslim woman to marry a non-muslim man unless he first becomes a Muslim. The reason is very simple - it is assumed that the children will take the name and religion of their father. This is still largely true, with some modern exceptions. If the natural order was followed in your husband`s family, his grandfather, his father and he himself perhaps carried his great grandfather`s name and were circumcised.
Simple formulas of the type you use make no sense, whatever. Using this formula, almost every subcontinental Muslim is more than 90% Hindu if you go back far enough.
There should be no confusion regarding your children`s religious identity. Delhiwala in his post#26 gave succinct criteria for deciding whether your son is Muslim or not.
There are two aspects to religion - faith and political identity. As far as faith is concerned, it is a personal matter, you could believe in any holy book, ideology, or none. India`s President is said to recite the Bhagvad Gita, still he remains a Muslim.
The other is the political identity, and this is what you are really talking about. Neither Savarkar nor Jinnah nor Advani practised their religions but they all had/have strong religious idenities. It is quite clear that your Hindu identity is weak or else you would not have married a Muslim knowing that Islam explicitly uses inter-religious marriage as one of the prescribed means of expanding Muslim Ummah: A Muslim man marrying a non-muslim is not breaking his religious rules, the qur`an encourages it, but it does not allow a muslim woman to marry a non-muslim man unless he first becomes a Muslim. The reason is very simple - it is assumed that the children will take the name and religion of their father. This is still largely true, with some modern exceptions. If the natural order was followed in your husband`s family, his grandfather, his father and he himself perhaps carried his great grandfather`s name and were circumcised.
Simple formulas of the type you use make no sense, whatever. Using this formula, almost every subcontinental Muslim is more than 90% Hindu if you go back far enough.
#123 Posted by nandita on August 5, 2005 3:57:45 am
Re: Fractions:)
#122 was my husbands side. Me I`m hindu!
#122 was my husbands side. Me I`m hindu!
#122 Posted by nandita on August 5, 2005 3:52:03 am
Re: fractions :)
Yes..all you fraction whiz kids were right... I was wrong. Maybe you could help me with the real Math of it. Great grandfather was a muslim married to a half hindu half christian great grandmother. Grandfather was married to half hindu half christian grandmother..what does that make my son??
Yes..all you fraction whiz kids were right... I was wrong. Maybe you could help me with the real Math of it. Great grandfather was a muslim married to a half hindu half christian great grandmother. Grandfather was married to half hindu half christian grandmother..what does that make my son??
#121 Posted by nandita on August 5, 2005 3:35:17 am
Re: # 32
I will share with my children, when asked, what they have been born into and I might do that with the help of fractions:). They will, then decide, what they want to be, or don`t want to be, within that or outside that..once they grow up.
Nandita
I will share with my children, when asked, what they have been born into and I might do that with the help of fractions:). They will, then decide, what they want to be, or don`t want to be, within that or outside that..once they grow up.
Nandita
#120 Posted by nazarhayatkhan on August 5, 2005 1:21:35 am
Nefertiti # 74
(Clip it off and stop her from enjoying sex, where as do the guys lose anything with their version of the clipping....?just curious, that`s all)
Clipping off the clitoris, I assume, reduces the sensitivity.
However, removal of the foreskin in guys is wrongly assumed to be reducing the sensitivity. The sensitivity of male appratus is not at the bulb but through the blood veins located at its underside.
Some medico-religoius expert can throw some more light as to why Islam ordained the removal of the foreskin.
nhk
(Clip it off and stop her from enjoying sex, where as do the guys lose anything with their version of the clipping....?just curious, that`s all)
Clipping off the clitoris, I assume, reduces the sensitivity.
However, removal of the foreskin in guys is wrongly assumed to be reducing the sensitivity. The sensitivity of male appratus is not at the bulb but through the blood veins located at its underside.
Some medico-religoius expert can throw some more light as to why Islam ordained the removal of the foreskin.
nhk
#119 Posted by cayenne on August 5, 2005 12:35:27 am
What`s all the fuss about?.So, a hindu marries a muslim, begets a child and the child is a bit confused when it comes to religion.And so on and so forth.Psfft!!.Big deal!!.This woman must have married rich otherwise she wouldn`t be spending her time writing drivel.She would be busy at her day job.
#118 Posted by JagdeeshGodbole on August 4, 2005 8:32:08 pm
Re: # 112
You have obviously not followed sadna`s interacts with manto, omar, chutia salim and others :D
You have obviously not followed sadna`s interacts with manto, omar, chutia salim and others :D
#117 Posted by BeeJay on August 4, 2005 7:52:14 pm
All interactors:
I returned to chowk after the gap of a whole day and I am disturbed by the tone that some of the interacts have taken on this board – especially the name-calling part of it. I would request the interactors to stick to the topic and refrain from gutter stuff – it adds little value and just wastes time (mostly your own). Chowk staff (and this from somebody who abhors censorship) should consider stepping in more aggressively – instead of making a guest appearance here and there!
#116 Posted by teshah on August 4, 2005 7:22:35 pm
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#115 Posted by masanamuthu on August 4, 2005 7:01:48 pm
``- which by the way is written purely in Farsi and has nothing to do with any of the umpteen Paki languages.``
Yes, it is written in Farsi, which is why I still cannot understand it.......
..hmm.. I`m beginning to understand the pakistani psyche..
First a nation is formed on the basis of some ``arab imperialist cult``, and then the national flag is a symbol copied from a distant land, and then the national anthem is again in some foreign language..
Do you folks take atleast some pride in your ancient civilization (the Indus valley civilization), or you think that you are some nomads civilized by the marauding armies spreading their arab imperialist cult..
I can understand the slavish mentality after getting screwed by all kinds of invaders.. But this is too much..
Yes, it is written in Farsi, which is why I still cannot understand it.......
..hmm.. I`m beginning to understand the pakistani psyche..
First a nation is formed on the basis of some ``arab imperialist cult``, and then the national flag is a symbol copied from a distant land, and then the national anthem is again in some foreign language..
Do you folks take atleast some pride in your ancient civilization (the Indus valley civilization), or you think that you are some nomads civilized by the marauding armies spreading their arab imperialist cult..
I can understand the slavish mentality after getting screwed by all kinds of invaders.. But this is too much..
#114 Posted by Aslam777 on August 4, 2005 6:01:53 pm
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#113 Posted by Romair on August 4, 2005 3:49:33 pm
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#112 Posted by Soulat on August 4, 2005 3:46:21 pm
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#111 Posted by Soulat on August 4, 2005 3:29:06 pm
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#110 Posted by rsribhar on August 4, 2005 2:46:00 pm
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#109 Posted by dullabhatti on August 4, 2005 2:29:15 pm
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#108 Posted by Romair on August 4, 2005 1:57:41 pm
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#107 Posted by delhiwala on August 4, 2005 1:11:04 pm
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#106 Posted by cayenne on August 4, 2005 12:55:34 pm
What a waste of time!!.What a lot of hot air!!.Sound and fury signifying nothing.Everything`s normal, i assume.Carry on!!.
#105 Posted by rsribhar on August 4, 2005 12:43:08 pm
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#104 Posted by rsribhar on August 4, 2005 12:37:57 pm
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#103 Posted by rsribhar on August 4, 2005 12:36:51 pm
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#102 Posted by rsribhar on August 4, 2005 12:34:31 pm
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#101 Posted by kaurasach on August 4, 2005 12:26:27 pm
samina,
can you ever pen something on your own??????
i don`t give a damn about wikipedia........where any fool can inoput.
anyways u are dead wrong on sikhism.
sikhism was a reform movemnet that challenged the prevalent ethos of both Islam and Hinduism.....it rejected both dogmas.
Akbar respected all saints (superstiious???) ..... like Ranjit Singh, he was an illiterate person.
he jst showed respect towards the gurus of the time.....nothing more - WHAT support???
pls use your own brain - instead of copying from wikipedia.
can you ever pen something on your own??????
i don`t give a damn about wikipedia........where any fool can inoput.
anyways u are dead wrong on sikhism.
sikhism was a reform movemnet that challenged the prevalent ethos of both Islam and Hinduism.....it rejected both dogmas.
Akbar respected all saints (superstiious???) ..... like Ranjit Singh, he was an illiterate person.
he jst showed respect towards the gurus of the time.....nothing more - WHAT support???
pls use your own brain - instead of copying from wikipedia.
#100 Posted by delhiwala on August 4, 2005 12:23:31 pm
Saminasha,
Your source is so polarised and biased. Religous persecution reach it`s height under Shah Jahan and Aurengzeb to new limits. Aurengzeb was convinced by his Qazis that his mission in life is to convert all Indians into Islam. He did not eat his food till he had 60 KGs(approx 140 lbs) of Janeu(Hindu Sacred thread), in other words about 20,000-30,000 forced conversions in a day.
Is that your view point and you thinkt hat it is okay?
If Bush starts converting all of Muslims into Christianity by reasoning, financial incentives or co-orcion would you become a Christian?
You are only quoting one Mughal king(Akbar) who was realtively peaceful but what about 99% of the rest.
Your source is so polarised and biased. Religous persecution reach it`s height under Shah Jahan and Aurengzeb to new limits. Aurengzeb was convinced by his Qazis that his mission in life is to convert all Indians into Islam. He did not eat his food till he had 60 KGs(approx 140 lbs) of Janeu(Hindu Sacred thread), in other words about 20,000-30,000 forced conversions in a day.
Is that your view point and you thinkt hat it is okay?
If Bush starts converting all of Muslims into Christianity by reasoning, financial incentives or co-orcion would you become a Christian?
You are only quoting one Mughal king(Akbar) who was realtively peaceful but what about 99% of the rest.
#99 Posted by Saminasha on August 4, 2005 12:16:46 pm
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#98 Posted by Aslam777 on August 4, 2005 12:13:12 pm
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#97 Posted by Saminasha on August 4, 2005 11:51:39 am
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#96 Posted by Saminasha on August 4, 2005 11:49:08 am
Kaura,
Do you like embarrassing yourself?
``Syncretism in Islam
The Druzes integrated elements of Ismaili Islam with Gnosticism and Platonism. Their practice of disguising themselves as followers of the dominant religion makes difficult to ascertain what is believed and what simulated. Several of the Jewish Messiah claimants like Jacob Frank and the donmeh ended mixing Cabalistic Judaism with Christianism and Islam. Sikhism blends Hinduism and Islam and was notably supported by the Mughal emperor Akbar, who wanted to consolidate the diverse religious communities in his empire. The Bahá`ís follow a prophet whom they consider a successor to Muhammad, and recognise Jesus, Moses, Buddha and Zoroaster amongst others as former prophets. Some have therefore considered it a syncretic faith.``
from Wikipedia.com
Do you like embarrassing yourself?
``Syncretism in Islam
The Druzes integrated elements of Ismaili Islam with Gnosticism and Platonism. Their practice of disguising themselves as followers of the dominant religion makes difficult to ascertain what is believed and what simulated. Several of the Jewish Messiah claimants like Jacob Frank and the donmeh ended mixing Cabalistic Judaism with Christianism and Islam. Sikhism blends Hinduism and Islam and was notably supported by the Mughal emperor Akbar, who wanted to consolidate the diverse religious communities in his empire. The Bahá`ís follow a prophet whom they consider a successor to Muhammad, and recognise Jesus, Moses, Buddha and Zoroaster amongst others as former prophets. Some have therefore considered it a syncretic faith.``
from Wikipedia.com
#95 Posted by rsribhar on August 4, 2005 11:46:33 am
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