Was Muslim Astronomy the Harbinger of Copernicanism?

hindvi:

Are we talking about two different authors? You`re talking about Tuffy; I don`t think I have come across this author. I was talking about Tobu Huff.

Mohammad Gill

Gandiv:

``la`` also means ``nothing.`` In ``La ilaha il-Allah`` which is the first part of the Muslim kalimah, la is in the meaning of ``there is no...`` This part of Kalimah means ``there is no god but Allah.``
So far so good. Now I ha ve to make a correction. It appears that the letter symbols were not introduced by Arabs as I thought and stated. The Arab mathematicians used rhetorical algebra; the notations came later on.

Mohammad Gill

i think tuffy also mentions the devastation of the mongols and the anarchy that followed and the desire after that of muslims too prefer a thousand years of tyrrany to an hour of anarchy.

Mr gill

Tuffy lays out the legal innovation of the corporation as the most important reason for the diff. between islam`s retardation and the west`s progress. The corporation was an entity in itself within which came the university, a place seperate (at least theoretically) from the state and the church, from it also emerged the company an entity which could be sued, taken to court or accrue income just like an individual. In islam he believes science and the scientist was always secondary to religion and law.

I dont know how far this is true and i dont remember his book as emphasising the importance of the early repression of humanism by the church and the importance of the rennaissance rebellion neithor of which existed in islamic history, nor does he mention the contact with the east provied by the crusades.

The Indians are also right here in that the achievements of the muslim and the hindu mathematicians are too mixed, for example in the west generally Khwarizmi`s name is associated with algebra it is possible that he got ideas from india, in science and math rarely is an idea totally orignal even newton and einstein built on the shoulders of those who came before them, Newton owes to Tycho and Kepler a huge debt and in calculus may be even to Leibnitz, einstein similarly owes a massive debt to Maxwell, planck and especially Reiman with out whose definitions of n dimensional space and geodesics, einstein would not have the mathematics to create his physics. (unlike the greatest living physicst today Ed Witten who invents his own mathematics as he unites all the diff. strains of string theory) and reiman inturn owes a debt to the great Gauss and Dirichlet and so it goes.

you are right to point out though that most of whom are described as arab scientists by the west and arabs were really not arabs though they were all muslims.

Re: # 18

Thanks!

But then it should be just ``unknown`` not ``nothing``, ain`t it?
I think ``nothing`` symbolizes the void/absence whereas unknown symbolizes uncertainty.

vivek:

You have raised an issue about which I have been thinking for the last several days. I had mentioned about it in some of my previous articles but did not highlight it as much as it deserves. I started reading a book by Huffy after writing this article in which the author has focused on this issue. He said one of the main reasons for the decline of science in the Muslim world was that science was not institutionalized. Science was not taught and learned formally in self-empowered institutes or universities. Huffy says that in the Muslim heirarchy, legists (fuqaha) were at the top, below them were the mutakallamun, and at the lowest level were science and philosophy. So science could be sabotaged by the legists and the ulema whenever they wanted. Thanks for raising this point. With regards,

Mohammad Gill

Gandiv:

In setting up algebraic equations, it is assumed that the unknown entity (or the entity which needs to be calculated) is x or ``la`` as the Arabs used. When the equation is solved for x, its magnitude is determined. ``La`` was not zero; it was the unknown entity.

Mohammad Gill

Re: # 2

Refreshing as always Mr.Gill, thanks for another nice article.

They used ``la (nothing or unknown)`` and the western mathematicians started using ``x`` for ``la.``

Not sure if you mean this is related with zero(0), but the invention of zero ia attributed to India.

friend,
Science cannot be compartmentalised, but the scientist can be. Also we are talking of science in history over here. Back then science was not global to the extent as it is today, hence can be compartmentalised into regions.

Mr. Gill,
Was science in the middle east institutionalised?

Dear friend:

When you read astronomy as a science, it is without religion and culture. It`s pure science. But when you consider astronomy in historical perspective, there is room for religion and culture in it. Wishing you well,

Mohammad Gill

Dear Dr Gill
My point or contention is that while it is alright to be proud of one`s heritage, one can not put science in religious compartments. Mayans or Egyptians made great advances in some fields. If I need feel happy about what Egyptians did with their pyramid, I should do that with trying to say that `oh they are of so and so religion and I am also from so religion, and that`s why I am happy`

Of course everyone is free to find his own reason for feeling proud of something..)

I am out of this discussion now.. thanks for listening

Dear friend:

Unfortunately I failed to see your point.

I was not talking in my article of any aboriginal scientists; I talked about Ibn-al-Shatir, al-Tusi, al-Haitham, Ibn-al-Rushd, etc. Of them al-Tusi was Iranian and others were Arab but all of them were Muslims and none of them changed his faith. So if I called them Muslim, it was not a wrong statement. There was nothing more to it.

Religion if used negatively is reprehensible. Professor Salam (Nobel laureate in physics) was proud he was a Muslim (in the broad sense; I do not want to start a debate on Ahmadism here), so is Professor Ahmad Zewail (another Muslim Nobel laureate, in chemistry) and there are several other prominent living Muslim scientists also. Some of them draw inspiration from their faith, others don’t.

I was inspired to write this article by a paper, “Islamic Astronomy,” by Harvard professor Owen Gingerich and by Howard Turner’s book, “Science in Medieval Islam.” I felt a natural bond with Ibn-al-Shatir and al-Tusi whose work they applauded. These Muslim scientists are my progenitors. There is nothing wrong with discovering one’s heritage, cherishing it and writing about it. I am not much of a believing and practicing Muslim myself but I have roots in Islam. I am not ashamed of it. Vivek also clarified this point in his post.

I have roots in the subcontinent also and do not miss a chance to adulate the sub-continental scientists. This is quite natural. My own professional career was built on the works of the western scientists and engineers and some of them provided invaluable guidance to me. I appreciate them too. Science is unifying and not divisive.

Jang and vereesh:

Unfortunately, I have no personal experience of sailing. Your feedbacks are interesting but I cannot add anything to them. Thanks for your positive views.

Mohammad Gill

Vivek
Einstein`s example is a good one. Can we divide today`s astronomy in compartments of christian astronomy and Jew astonomy. Should Chandrasekhar be trated as an achievement of hindu astronomy? Or Ramanujan`s mathematics feat as something belonging to hindu mathematics?

Somehow, I am not able to understand this concept of boxing science within context of religion.

There is enough data that survived various European and subsequently American cleansing to leave more than ample room to re-confirm that much of what we call astronomy and therein the linkages to navigation emerged from ``Al-Hind`` and the environs therein. If we take ``Al Hind`` to encompass most lands between, say, Aden on one side and Cochin-China (Vietnam) on the other, and extend it to the ports and coasts of much of Africa.

Whether these were Muslim, Hindu or Buddhist is better understood when we go walk about in the islands of the Pacific Ocean. Especially the ones between Australasia and Asia.

Or for that matter, even the observatories in Jaipur, Delhi, Ujjain and elsewhere. No one religion can lay claim to the science that went into setting them up.

Similar records on these sciences were reputed to have filled the libraries of Africa before the dawn of European civilisation. Again, the religion was not very clear or relevant.

Did Vasco de Gama and Christopher Columbus use navigators from our part of the world? Well, records in kerala and Goa suggest that Vasco de Gama sure did, apparently picking them up from what is today known as Angola.

And more . . .

friend,
Religion is one of the things that humans identify themselves with. There is nothing wrong with the term ``muslim astrologers`` just like nothing`s wrong with Einstien being called a Jew. I don`t think Mr.Gill means that individual achievements are due to religion, but that these achievers can be classified together as belonging to a common religion.

Gillsaab

I have a few friends in sailing community, and they clearly see a strong link in science and sea-faring. Sea going folks were one of the highest demanders of applied science from astronomy to use of pulleys to weather and geography. they were always using small crew, as a result needed gadgets to accompish tasks. overall, they seem to have (even today) contempt forland-lubbers. land based farming communities on the other hand were traditionalists and feudal. manpower and hierarchichal control was always cheap way of accomplishing tasks. so they evolved feudal and caste based systems (my belief), and had little use for applied science except for military campaigns, but even here, manpower was always plentiful.

revival in europe for marcantile seafaring activity beyong calm medeiterrenean among the prtuguese, spanish , dutch etc was the strongest imepetus for applied science demand. contrast that with the ottomans, who had relatively little interest as they were status-quo land based overlord society. same is the reason for interest among the arabs since they were the seafaring traders of earlier times.