Finding Kashmir's Pain in London

Dear Murtaza,

as an Indian, I am extremely ashamed of the behavior of the Indian state towards Kashmiri Muslims, people the state claims are `Indian citizens`. Nationalism has blinded my countrymen to the agony and pain of Kashmiri Muslims. An essentially peaceful, non confrontational and non violent people, Indians, today are apathetic to the killings of innocent Kashmiri Muslims caught in the crossfire between the security apparatus and Muslim militants. The heavy handedness and brutality of the military and security forces is inexcusable. The militants are not expected to adhere to UN charter of human rights because they do not speak in the name of any govt. But the military and security forces should adhere to these values because they act in the name of the Indian people. That they have failed to do so is an indication that India has failed Kashmiri Muslims. Spending billions of dollars in Kashmir on infrastructure and other carrots is not enough when Kashmiri Muslims fear for their lives and honor whenever they step out.

There is not nearly enough exposure among Indians to the atrocities perpetrated in Kashmir. Whatever there is, is skewed in the nationalist point of view. There is no trailblazing journalism of the Vietnam kind which changed attitudes in America and brought Americans in the streets and the Vietnam war to an end. Indians need to be exposed to the realities of the war in Kashmir. They need to see the gory victims of security forces` brutality, not just the victims of militants. It is only then that the Indian masses will wake up to the situation in Kashmir. The vast majority of Indians have never been to Kashmir and form their opinion of the state from the media which while free and brave in many issues, sticks to the govt. version when it comes to Kashmir. There is no independent initiative and thought when it comes to Kashmir or other insurrections elsewhere in India for that matter.

India cannot afford to delay the settlement of various grievances in Kashmir and the north-east. For its own sake, India needs to settle the Kashmir Muslim issue in a peaceful and satisfactory manner for all the parties involved, Muslim and non-Muslim. Indians should part as friends with the Islamic world and close the chapter of our long, fruitful as well as scarred relationship with our Islamic neighbors. Only then can the Indian state concentrate completely and wholeheartedly in solving the problems of the Indian people, people who are proud to be Indian and are not forced to be Indian. India needs to move on and fulfill its promise. Best regards and best of luck,

Kabuli

yup..India is being bled dry..

India’s FX reserves at record $151.62 billion

Actual reserves of SBP still below $8 billion

Economic growth may fall below 6 per cent

World Economic Forum Growth Competitiveness Index rankings(India 50, Pakistan 83, Vietnam 81)

Ref ranjit #76

[We Indians have much bigger problems with that a**hole Arjun Singh wanting to introduce over 50% reservations in IITs and IIMs. Thats the end of merit in India. Whatever good was happening, is going to come to a screeching halt. Our typical hindu habit of shooting ourselves in the foot is coming up yet again in full glory. Lets destroy our economic progress and slide from a merit based society to a caste-based dump. :-( ]

On another board, I suggested shooting the politicians who are pandering to Sonia Gandhi. I should have included Arjun Singh in the list.

A professor at the National School of Law in Bangalore said that an act of Parliament would be needed to include OBC quota in IIMs, IITs, NITs, etc. The Election Commission has asked why Arjun Singh raised the issue of OBC reservations just weeks before elections in five states and thus making an effort to unduly influence the elections.

Of course we have interactors here who believe that BJs (metaphorical) are the best approach to solving any problem and I wouldn`t be surprised if he now includes OBCs in his list of people requiring such service.

Re: # 75

``while Murtaza Shibli is free to go back to his house in Kashmir, a Kashmiri Pandit in a refugee camp in Jammu cannot do so despite the police promise of protection.``(DM)

well put -- this aomalous situation must be corrected -- if Shibli can go back to his house so can my friend Zutshi and his family.....

DM ji it is NOT the Muslim Kashmiri problem -- its is the Kashmiri Jihadi problem -- the Jihadi Muslim Kashmiri must learn one dictum -- what is good for the Indian Muslim Goose is ALSO good for the Kashmiri Muslim Gander --

the Kashmiri Jihadi Muslims and their Hurriyati apologiistas -- MUST learn and Relearn to live with and work with a pluristic mainstream JKL -- with the Kashmiri Hindus, with the Kashmiri Sikhs and with the Kashmiri Buddhistas...........this is it.

India is not a land of Peurile`Pure`.....its a habitat of the hoshiar hybrids......thank goodness.

jo baichtay thay dawai dil voh dukan apni barhaa gaye -- long time time ago in 1947 --

Hurriyet should forget the dream (more like a nightmare) of Islami Hukoomat in Muslim Valley -- chasing a bloody mirage -- it ain`t happenin in a million yeears-- not again..

Doodh ka jalaa chaach ko bhi phooNk phoonK kar peeta hai....:) hey I still remember those clever vernacular proverbs --

...once is enough.

#84 by HisExcellency on April 8, 2006 11:32am PT

your army wouldn`t be stuck in the quagmires of Srinagar, Baramullah and Kupwara.



Umm..paki citizens are being bombed and killed on their own land by a foreign power..then there`s the PAF dropping a lot of bombs on paki tribals..the same PAF that chickened out during Kargil..you`ve lost a bunch of soldiers fighting the islamists you trained..PAF men and paki army men are on death row for attempted assassinations of your military ruler..you`re getting publicly slapped down by dubya and have been reduced to begging for a nuclear deal..there`s a travel advisory on pakiland...and your army is still spending a higher percentage of your GDP on itself..



``mmmmmKay``

- Mr Mackey from South Park..

#40 by arjun_m

pakis targeted for deportation..

Your attention deficit disorder (ADD) is kicking in again, gringo. We are discussing Kashmir here, not illegal immigration to US or visa violations. Not that I blame you for this. Had your leaders paid some attention to Kashmiris, today your army wouldn`t be stuck in the quagmires of Srinagar, Baramullah and Kupwara.

``The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars,
But in ourselves, that we are underlings.``
-- Julius Caesar

#75 DM-jee

Well said!

punjabi zulu with your hatred for mirpuris they would pimp your black punjoo ass in bradford.
``Keighley, where Mr Griffin did badly at the general election, saw a further BNP setback last month when it lost the safest of its four seats on Bradford council to an outraged local mother, Angela Sinfield. She stood for Labour after her campaign against the grooming of young girls for prostitution, including her own daughter, was hijacked by the BNP, which portrayed the pimping, wrongly, as organised by Asian gangs.

Ranjit - so true. Indians shooting themselves in the foot as always.

Re: # 75

Mr.Dost-Mittar:
You have been pretty pretty patronizing. Your spin all along has been Indians are fanatics
on Kashmir, you are an enlightened soul ``clarifying`` several things for us such as this :

>>>>>``I am one of the few Indians who would like India to seek a compromise solution in Kashmir and have been abused by Indian chowkies for doing so. I want India to do so because I think that a festering sore, such as Kashmir, is not good for India or Indians.``

Why is the ``sore`` festering?

(1) Generations of valley muslims have been brought up with victim mentality, and a sense of entitlement that they are special people. Their superiority complex has grown to such monstrous extent that they still talk about ``self-determination``. Hindus +Sikh majority living in Lahore and Hindu Sindhis did not have self-determination. Balochs, Pashtuns, Tamils, and Telugus did not get ``self-determination``.

(2) Due to their geographic location, and unusual circumstances (Hindu King, muslim majority, etc) things became complicated. ALL ALONG THEY HAD PLAYED SELFISH DOUBLE GAMES, EXTRACTING MAX BENEFIT FROM INDIA, STILL MAINTAINING ANTI-INDIA HOSTILITY, and playing with Pakistan, and screwing up Pakistan (as in 1965) etc.

(3) Biggest humbug is the claim that what they have done for the past 17 years is freedom struggle. Terrorism based on religious fanaticism, plain and simple.

(4) Indian Army is abusing human rights? What crap? Is the Indian army ``abusing`` the ``human rights`` of Gujarathis and Malyalees? If the freedom struggle consists of hiding in mosques and throwing bombs, slitting the throats of sleeping villagers, ethnic cleansing of Hindus do you have any strategy for handling this?

(5) The sore is festering NOT because India hasn`t done enough, BUT because of the militarism, religious fanaticism (new for them, thanks to the Punjabi Sunnis) and the above superiority complex.

(6) If tomorrow they stop their ``freedom struggle`` and develop tourism and other industries, what will happen? Will the Indian army go around abuse their human rights?????????

(7) If one of them becomes the President or Prime Minister of India or Captain of the Indian Cricket team, is any one in the rest of India going to protest? Isn`t this what India is all about.

``Zeena`` here likes to reieterate her committment. She and her jehadi sponsors seem still not to be convinced about our committment after 4 wars and relentless terrorism. We`ll see.

rsridar#77:

Yes, I should have said it is a Muslim Kashmiri problem.

re:#76 by ranjit
What will happen is that bright IIT graduates will seek greener pastures abroad and those from the ``reserved quota`` will get into govt jobs. This is already the case in medical profession.
What else do u expect from idiotic politicians in India who only worry about votes and their constituency.
Sridhar

re:#75 by dost-mittar
(Why do I consider it an issue of Muslim rights? First of all, no non-muslim Kashmiri seems to have joined their struggle. Secondly, all militant organizations fighting for ``freedom`` invoke jihad and use Islamic terms, such as Hizb-ul-Mujahideen, Jaish-e-Mohammad and Lashkar-e-Toibba. And when one watches on TV demonstrations in the streets of Srinagar, the slogan used is ``Pakistan se rishta kya, La Ilaha l`il Allah``.)
Infact, this is just a Kashmiri struggle. AFAIK, no non-kashmiri muslim from India has joined in the struggle.
I would argue that Kashmiri case of self-governance, that was a genuine and legitimate case to begin with, got bogged down by interference from Pakistan. Pakis have a way of complicating things. I dare say there is hardly one Paki who can even stand straight and take a leak without wetting his pants! If Pakis had not sent jehadis into Kashmir and had just given emotional and political support, they would be in a very good position today: at least morally. Pakis today are in no position to lecture the Indians on the legitimate rights of Kashmiris when they themselves live under the shadow of a dictator and have denied every citizen the rights that they want Kashmiris in India to have. Infact, as already noted by some interactors here, Indian Kashmiris enjoy much more rights than the Kashmiris in POK.
Sridhar

Re:arjun et al...

Who cares about this kashmir crap any more? Even the Pakis have given up on it, except for lip service.

We Indians have much bigger problems with that a**hole Arjun Singh wanting to introduce over 50% reservations in IITs and IIMs. Thats the end of merit in India. Whatever good was happening, is going to come to a screeching halt. Our typical hindu habit of shooting ourselves in the foot is coming up yet again in full glory. Lets destroy our economic progress and slide from a merit based society to a caste-based dump. :-(

Looks like the Pakis are going to have the last laugh. At least thanks to Islam, they dont have to bother with giving reservations to anyone.

Zeena#various:

You are a person with a very good heart and it is not surprising that you feel for the suffering Kashmiris. I do too but differ with you on your basic premise of human rights.

I am one of the few Indians who would like India to seek a compromise solution in Kashmir and have been abused by Indian chowkies for doing so. I want India to do so because I think that a festering sore, such as Kashmir, is not good for India or Indians. More than anything else, it has made them insensitive to brutalities committed by their security forces on fellow citizens.

But I do not regard the Kashmiri separatist struggle as a freedom struggle and the issue is not of Kashmiri rights but Muslim rights. Kashmiris, with the exception of Kashmiri Pandits, are as free as any other Indian citizen; while Murtaza Shibli is free to go back to his house in Kashmir, a Kashmiri Pandit in a refugee camp in Jammu cannot do so despite the police promise of protection.

Why do I consider it an issue of Muslim rights? First of all, no non-muslim Kashmiri seems to have joined their struggle. Secondly, all militant organizations fighting for ``freedom`` invoke jihad and use Islamic terms, such as Hizb-ul-Mujahideen, Jaish-e-Mohammad and Lashkar-e-Toibba. And when one watches on TV demonstrations in the streets of Srinagar, the slogan used is ``Pakistan se rishta kya, La Ilaha l`il Allah``.

It`s good to call a spade a spade!

Re: # 48

Um,``..His name was Sagir Ahmed from Bhember , Azad Kashmir . he was a dedicated member and as far as my sources tell me still is active in liberation of Kashmir from Indian occupation ...
Why in the world has he come to UK from `AZADI Kashmir``. Correct me does AZADI means free?