Will Kashmiri Pandits Ever Return to their Abode…?

I hope you are able to permanently return home one day.

A vast majority of those Punjabis and Sindhis that were kicked out of Pakistan never had a chance to see their ancestral homes again.

they were eating a meal? that means they were well off and deserved what they got anyway....

Gunmen attack village in Kashmir

Suspected Islamists have killed five Hindus and injured nine more in an attack on a remote mountain village in India`s section of Kashmir, police say.

They struck as Hindu family members ate their evening meal together, a police official said. Three of the injured are in a serious condition.

First, I’m really glad you went back for a visit and retained a sense of connection to your ancestral place. The unfortunate fact of life is that any kind of bonding – with imposed separation – can only weaken over time (a feeling most immigrants can fully identify with (even though the circumstances leading to such separation are completely different, of course)) – from both sides.

I am really glad you wrote this piece. When politics, communal colors, and the rest of the other artificial (man-made) covers are removed, life is about little individuals – coming home for the night to a place they can call home – where they can feel safe – or did at one time. The longing for a home lost, in many ways, can feel a bit like what amputees feel about the lost limb (from how I have heard it described) – one feels an occasional desire to reach for it and touch it – even though it no longer exists in reality.

My overall views on the whole issue of Kashmiri Pandits being dispossessed are strong – and remain so. I expressed them earlier on another board. I quote what I consider the relevant portions here:

`` ...I would like to address a few words to the Kashmiri Pandits who suffered – directly or through their relations.

Many have failed you!

I and individuals like me are strong believers in the Second amendment – the ultimate responsibility for an individual’s defense lies with the individual! There are good reasons for that amendment in the U.S. In India, I see some of those same reasons in place in states like Bihar (and perhaps other parts of the country), where individuals and families have taken to arms in their own defense – to protect themselves – because even though they were originally law-abiding citizens, there was nobody to protect them – from tough men, from corrupt politicians, from hordes of masses who simply outnumbered them. Government is a necessary evil and it is rarely a reliable protector even in the most developed and most civilized of places, mostly it protects its own vested interests, which only tend to enlarge over time! India, of course is still developing.

Having said all of that, YOU, and not people in far-away places (within and outside India) are the best judges of what makes sense – to stay put or to escape – in a given situation! You had the right to make that call – and you did! Those of you who could – chose the way that suited you best – including escape – to survive.

No HONEST Indian would begrudge your escaping with your lives intact, then building up new lives! It’s one of the toughest things to do in life – starting over! ... In many respects, it mirrors what the Jewish people went through after the holocaust ...!... Those who survived that terrible ordeal have proved their mettle by coming out and being able to deal with the hardship successfully, and by becoming positive contributors!``

Lastly, the answer to the key question – will the Pandits ever return home – in my view is the same as that to – will the sub continental mind-set ever change. At the time, it looks unlikely, but don’t count out India’s resilience, its ability to adapt, and the many wonderful things that are yet to – but are sure to happen – and for all one knows, such a return could be one of those wonderful surprises down the road! Perhaps the tree of enlightenment can someday indeed grow there like that tall pine tree in your compound – which was not originally expected. We just don’t know how long the road could be – human eyes can only see up to the next turn at a time.

Mr Raina,
I can assure you that you will never be able to live abd prosper in Kashmir ever again, like your ancesstors used to be. At best you might be able to visit as a tourist and offered a cup of Kahwa by your Muslim neighbours.
It is the sad part, and I hope that I am wrong but I cannot shut my eyes to the reality when I say this.

Every talks about Pandits of Kashmir, what about Sikhs of Kashmir who have moved out?

They don`t count I guess because it is Muslim and Hindus who want Kashmir.

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Another fascist idol worshipper makes ugly claims against the righteous kashmiri freedom fighters! Thank goodness that Farzana-ji has exposed the ugliness and greed in the hearts of people like these.

Raina-sahib, please understand the root cause and stop this ``sensible`` hindu whining. The root cause is a system of thought that is present in islam that supports violence against the other in defense of perceived injustice. This is why otherwise intelligent muslims are always ready to say ``yes, but....`` when confronted with evidence of hatred and bigotry in their traditions. This is what allows muslim youth to ``feel good`` as they attack and destroy the other.

You and your culture have been defeated by this ideology. The question is still open whether the indian nation has the guts and paitence to confront it. It will be a long confrontation and it will take several generations before it is over.

What about my ancesstral property in Muzaffrabad and Kohalla, where my Nana started a Dharamsal(Gurudwara), all the stories of my family members riding horses across the bridge over river jhelum and the low sunset.
What about tonnes of Sikhs of Muzaffrabad, who were killed by Nawab himself with his own .12 barrel shotgun after their refusal to change their religion? Same Nawab`s ancesstors were given the Nawabi by Nalwa overlooking Peshawar and Kashmir.

What about all the Dhars, Kauls, Balis, Fotedars, Dars, Maliks, Kapurs, Nalwais, Uppals, Marwaha, Abrols, Angreshs?
All of them were Sikhs, What about our Gurudwaras in Ladhak and other parts of Kashmir.


All this is pathetic, I am going for a swim now it is 110 with heat index, all this talk has made me more Sick and Sikh than I was ever before.

Why can`t we have our lives back as they used to be under British? yeah, let us call Angrez back.

I DONT HATE PAKISTANIS BUT I WANT EQUALITY FOR EVERYONE. NOT JUST HINDUS, MUSLIMS BUT ALSO ANY OTHER group.

Thank you for listening!

#7 by delhiwala on August 13, 2005 8:27am PT


What about my ancesstral property in Muzaffrabad and Kohalla


All such considerations only apply to muslims...

Don`t you know the basic Islamist tenets?

1. When muslims conquer non-muslim land, that`s part of the glorious muslims past and is to be celebrated.
2. When non-muslims conquer muslim land, that`s a historic grievance to be felt by all true muslims( however disconnected they might be from that event..e.g. pakis i.e. wannabe arabs whining about the crusades...)
3. If a muslim sets foot on a non-muslim land and displaces the local populace, that land becomes muslim land till eternity.
4. If a non-muslim entity sets foot on a muslim land and displaces muslims, that`s a genuine grievance to be mourned by the whole world...

1. It is really sad what is happening in Kashmir. I only wish that peace will prevail.
2. When the Partition of India happened in 1947. The Pakistanis kicked out the Hindu Sindhis. They stole their homes, businesses and even their heritage and they had to flee with nothing!. So they don`t have a motherland!.
3. But when Isreal did the same to the Arabs, the Muslim world is ``jumping`` up and down. They hickjack planes, bomb buildings, kidnap westerns.
4. Even people in India, don`t know the plight of the Hindu Sindhis, because we choose to be ignorant of our history.
5. Now you have the same thing happening in Kashmir. With Hindus getting kicked out.
6. Muslims will stick by their Muslims brothers. They have formed a united front. So when they are the victims, they have a fighting force, yet when Muslims are the ``villans`` they never admit they are guily and claim they are going a ``Jihad`` and it is ``God`s`` will etc...
7. Muslims justify Murder by claiming it to be ``Jihad`` (holy war)... There is no justification for Murder!
7. It is funny the Indian flag has 3 colours (orange for Hindus & green for Muslims). Yet the Pakistan flag is green only for Muslims!

rajeshk4u

The Pakistani flag does have a white bar on one side.

Why is a Kashmir pundit problem that is confined to a small part of a disputed area more important than the plight of Dalits ALL OVER INDIA?

Those who talk about the displacement of may be two hundred thousand Pundits (and that too is an exaggeration) why always ignore Dalit that are almost 20%( or more) of Indian population. The Caste Hindu would make a whole nonsensical story about his own kind but have fits when Dalit issue is brought up.

Dalits in Kashmir outnumber Pundits but no Dalit has left Kashmir. Pundits left because they knew that their control of jobs and economy of Kashmir was challenged by the oppressed in that area.

ALL OVER INDIA
Every hour two Dalits are assaulted
Every day three Dalit women are raped
Every day two Dalits are murdered and two Dalit houses are burned in India
This is according to the official report on crime against Dalits. Dalit means broken, discriminated, disowned, subjugated, and a victim of apartheid.

1, Dalits are not permitted to enter into the streets and houses of other castes. Dalits should not touch others or be touched by others.

2, Dalits are forced to reside in separate settlements (called Cheri or Colony), which further reinforces the stigma of untouchability. Seclusion at outskirts of the village or settlement may rightly be called social boycott or ostracism.

3, Concepts like ``defilement (Theetu in Tamil), pollution, impurity, and exclusion`` are blatantly attributed to the Dalits. The idea that impurity can be transmitted by mere touch of an untouchable or by his approach within a certain distance prevails throughout Tamil Nadu.

4, Provision of separate tea glasses in 2000 villages of Tamil Nadu (serving tea in tins separately allocated only for Dalits) is common in public tea stalls. Dalits are served tea, not in glasses or mud cups like people of other castes, but in aluminum tins.

5, Dalits are not allowed to fetch water from common water sources-wells, tanks, and ponds. Village wells are still out of the reach of the Dalits.

6, Dalits are not allowed to utilize the services of barbers or washermen.
7, Dalits are not allowed to bathe in common water sources.

8, Dalits are denied the right to move freely through the streets of other caste people. Even the dead bodies of Dalits are not allowed to be taken to burial grounds through the other-caste streets.

9, Dalits are not permitted to use benches to sit in the village bus stops.
10, Dalits are forced to stand, or give way to other caste people, on the roads. They are also forced to use narrow dirt tracks.

11, Dalits are prohibited to wear chappals in the streets of other-caste people. They must carry them in their hands and walk barefoot.

12, The labor of Dalits is exploited in the name of bondage by advancing money or ``Padiyal`` (slave workers).

13, Dalits are paid lower wages than those prescribed in the Minimum Wages Act, and are given cash without being touched.

14, People of other castes often extract free, compulsory labor from Dalits.

15, In the name of religious rituals, Dalits are often forced to beg for food in the houses of other-caste people.

16, Dalit women who work as agricultural hired workers regularly face physical abuse and sexual exploitation from the landowners, who normally belong to other castes.

#11 fake ``dalit``

Your silly propaganda has been exposed more than 10 times. This is a public forum so you are welcome to do whatever you want but no one is going to take your propaganda seriously anymore.

National Human Rights Commission’s (NHRC) ``Report on Prevention of Atrocities against Scheduled Castes``

“Violence against Dalits has its distinctiveness of being embedded in the social structure of the dominated by the upper caste. It is the caste-based hierarchical structure that lays down the norm of conduct for human relationship between its more privileged groups and the subdued and subordinate ones. The report also says, ``it is the caste relationship in Hindu society which is getting disturbed by forces of pressure both from above and below. The frequency and intensity of violence is an offshoot of desperate attempts by the upper caste groups to protect their entrenched status against the process of disengagement and upward mobility among lower castes resulting from affirmative action of State policy``

The ground has thus been made more fertile for tension and unrest to grow in many parts of the country. The situation has also turned ripe for communal and casteist forces to sow the seeds of division and discord and indulge in violence. Dalits, being the most vulnerable of the poor are the worst hit, with atrocities against them continuing in a number of states. The violence takes brutal forms and turns into acts of atrocities against the whole group of people, such as massacre, rape, burning of houses and through more subtle methods like social boycott, which intended to block their access to basic necessities and services.
Whenever such atrocities against Dalits involving loss of life and property are reported, human rights and Dalit activists complain that the police are generally reluctant to file cases under the stringent provisions of the Atrocities Act. They generally book cases either under the Indian Penal Code (IPC) or at best, under the Protection of Civil Rights (PCR) Act, 1955, much milder than the Atrocities Act. This often results in the culprits going scot-free. Leaving the culprits scot-free is in a way arming them which in fact gives them more confidence and courage to carryon such activities without any difficult in future. “

# 11

Dalit, tell us about the Dalits in Kashmir.

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That was a very good post, indeed. It was good because it had a lot of truth in it. There are some statements that are absurd in the extreme (Dalits are not permitted to enter into the ``streets`` of other castes? forced to reside in separate settlements? denied the right to move freely through the streets?! forced to beg??!! etc ), but others are still true in many parts of India. Or at least were true until about a decade ago in and around the area I come from.

re: pmisra2 # 12

I should have seen that :(

But may be our friend has something to tell us about Kashmir that is directly relevant to the discussion.

I had no idea that ``Dalits in Kashmir outnumber Pundits but no Dalit has left Kashmir.`` Facts can always be checked.

Kashmiri Pundit exploited, looted, and controlled all jobs and lands in Kashmir. They were never victimized by anyone. In fact, they victimized and were responsible for the most heinous crimes against Muslims and Dalit in Kashmir.

They left because one group of oppressed people picked up arms against the oppression and the pundit seeing no future for their kind of exploitation left the area.

Is there a comparison of number of Dalits and Muslims killed by this Hindu upper caste chauvinist since 1947 in India to the number of Kashmiri Pundit killed in communal riots in Kashmir? The ratio would be 50000:1

Muslims never left Gujarat or UP after the Communal riots but Pundit left because it was the first time in India after 1947 that these upper caste Hindus took a beating in communal riots.
A game they love but only when upper caste Hindus are killing Dalits and other minorities in India.