Jerry’s Pakistan

#32, hassan {``Basically Jinnah`s vision for Pakistan was to be a modern, democratic state where all people will have equal rights. This is unambiguously stated in the speech he made on August 11th 1947.``}

If ``all people having equal rights`` was truly his vision, then why create Pakistan 3 days later?

Politicians NEVER mean what they say - Jinnah was no exception.

India is a great secular democracy on paper - far from reality.

Muslims repeat several times they are people of peace - do they mean it?

So screw what the hijr a gave in his speech.


WHAT did he do to stop the mayhem and preserve the minorities and their safety and dignity????


Kaka`s analogy is a good one - he was a lawyer who had sympathies for the criminals and got them a good deal.

Re # 30

Kaurasach,

So well put. Right on the money.

Behram,
Thank you for sharing this wonderful description of Behram ``Behli`` Rustomji. :)

The article is indeed inspiring.....for me...and I wish all people are like Yasser in thoughts and beliefs......every citizen of any country should be treated as equal to others only then he/she will be able to make tue contribution...which will be healthy for nation and humanity.....after all we are children of one God...whatever u would like to call Him....Allah or Ram!!
I never knew about this `Muslims only` mecca thing......such kind of things shouldn`t be there or at least there won`t be humiliation based on them..Indeed...`a dream world`....but POSSIBLE...if everyone understands that we are all same ....afterall!!!

The article is indeed inspiring.....for me...and I wish all people are like Yasser in thoughts and beliefs......every citizen of any country should be treated as equal to others only then he/she will be able to make tue contribution...which will be healthy for nation and humanity.....after all we are children of one God...whatever u would like to call Him....Allah or Ram!!
I never knew about this `Muslims only` mecca thing......such kind of things shouldn`t be there or at least there won`t be humiliation based on them..Indeed...`a dream world`....but POSSIBLE...if everyone understands that we are all same ....afterall!!!

rigel, #37 and #38 {``after all we are children of one God...whatever u would like to call Him....Allah or Ram!!
``}

Rigel,
Good thoughts - Mashallah, Maashallah and Ram Ram to both of your nice posts. :)

Questions to Pakistanis...

Do Pakistanis sing this song ``SohNi Dharti, Allah rakkhe kadam kadm aabad`` in public places? Is this the national anthem of Pakistan or it was?
I once attended Pakistan Day at Oregon State University with my Pakistani friends
and I heard this song for the first time and if I remember correctly, everybody there sang
it together. I liked it very much, at least the tune, do not remember all the words.

What will happen if a Hindu in Pakistan starts singing
``SohNi dharati, Bhagwan rakkhe, kadam kadam aabad``
or if a Sikh starts singing
``SohNi dharati, Wahe Guru rakkhe, kadam kadam aabad``
in public place?

And lastly, I assume Hindi songs are popular in Pakistan.
So do people sing or listen to
``Allah tero naam, Ishwar tero naam`` in Pakistan.
It is a very popular song in India sung by Lata Mangeshkar``

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#17 {`` by delhiwala on August 16, 2005 1:03pm PT re: # 8
Salim Dost,
I did not know that Pakistani oppressed Sindhis and Karachiites as you are describing. ...
Why did Ayub Khan kill Sindhis or Karachites? I don`t get it. Musharraff is also a Hindi speaking Muslim, howcome he made it to the Top?``}

DilliBhai,
Pakistani military has, at one time or another, oppressed every part of Pakistan, with the possible exception of Punjab. East Bengal (East Pakistan), Baluchistan, Sind (mostly Karachi and Hyderabad), NWFP (Wana), and even Giligt/Baltistan have all received varying degrees of harsh treatment, including murder, rape, looting at the hands of ``their own`` soldiers.

Ayub Khan called Mohajirs ``Panha Guzeers`` or ``Refuge Seekers.`` He was very annoyed and irritated at the presence of so many Mohajirs (Dilliwallas, Lucknow nawabs, Gujarati industrialists, Hyderabadi bureaucrats, and Bombay elties) in the power spectrum of early Paki days. Part of the problem may have been some bureaucratic investigation launched into the sexual perversions of this rather tall, handsome, Pathan officer right after partition. There were stories about the young Major Ayub`s keen interest in seeing ``pretty`` Muslim refugee girls, esacping from the violence of East Punjab and Delhi, who were glad to be among their Moose Limb ``brothers.`` This is the same Ayub Khan who was involved with Christine Keeler, the high-paid London prostitute involved in the Profumo affair. All I can tell you is what I have read or heard from others. :)

Mushy got on top for two reasons - 1) He is genuinely smart and intelligent and has always presented himself to be a Paki patriot. 2) He has always been pro-Punjabi, looking out for Punjab`s interests in budgets, water allocation, national roads, etc. - Mushy even has a thick Punjabi accent when he speaks Urdu.

But then, APJ Abdul Kalam also got to the ``top`` in India. Mymanmohan SIngh is also at the real ``top`` in India. Maybe things are not all as bad as we think. :)

Stuka #41, {``You mention the Air Force and say that there are 4 Air Bases in Karachi. As far as I know, there are only two bases in Karachi area..PAF Faisal and PAF Masroor.``}

Stuka, maybe Romair was counting Manghopir. :) Thanks for the corrected infomration about the ordinance factories, airbases, and size of our navels, I mean navy.

Hey Ram, kiya hoga is Pakistan ka? More reliable militry infarmashun about Pakiland is coming from the son of an IAF Air Marshal.

just like all ethnic muslmans trun out as potential suicide bomber after madrassahs, all muhajirs, pukhtoons, balochis turn out panjabi in army.

Have u ever heard musharraf`s accent. I amost lost my bet that he was panjabi.

#40, Shisha Apa,
For most Pakis, Bhagwan, Ishwar, or Wahe Guru are good terms and worthy or respect. Of course, those bent on killing themselves on an express route to paradise may think differently. But they march to a different tune anyway.

Sony Dharti to my knowledge was never the national anthem. Yes, it is a very emotional and wonderful song. Several big names have sung it in Pakistan, I think Runa Laila or Shahnaz Begum (now, I think both in BD) and Mehdi Hassan.

What you refer to as ``Hindi`` songs are very popular and known as ``Urdu Filmi Gaane`` :)

I would guess that Karachi is the largest Urdu/Hindi speaking city in the world and would be the biggest market for Bollywood. :)

Stuka #41: Since, unlike Mr. Chauhan, you seem genuinely interested, here is some info:

``Actually, you can run through the names of Pak Army chiefs. Only two Mohajirs. Rest are Punjus and Pathan types. ``

If you re-read my statement, I stated that Karachi has produced the most military chiefs of any city. Which is a fact. The military consists of more than the Army. PAF and Navy are also part of the military. Do check those out, as well. Also, I am comparing cities. Karachi vs. Lahore vs. Peshawar etc.......Not Karachi vs all of Punjab.....

Secondly, I said Karachi has produced the chiefs. Not necessarily UP Muhajirs of Karachi only. The community in Karachi is very diverse. There are Pathan families who migrated, as, ``Muhajirs`` to Karachi, from India, in 47. Like Air Marshall Jamal - Chief of Air Staff; a non-Pushtu speaking Pathan Muhajir from India. All Muhajirs are not from UP.

``Even in the coup, I thought Lt Gen Aziz is a Kashmiri.``

Yes, he is a Kashmiri. The key peson in the coup was, however, General Usmani - a Muhajir. And another key guy was a Muhajir.........

``The whole Navy being stationed there is not saying much because the Pak Navy is disproportionatly smaller than the other two services. ``

True. But the total budget is still pretty high budget. My guess (?) is that out of the $3 billion budget, PAF gets around 800 million to 1 billion. Navy gets around 400-500 million (?). The Army gets around 1.5 - 1.7 billion.

``Defence manufacturing is centred around Rawalpindi. (Pakistan Ordnance Factories - POF), Kamra (Air Weapon Complex - AWC), and Taxilia (Heavy Industries Taxila -HIT). ..all are located in the Islamabad - Rawalpindi area. There are more cantts in Punjab as compared to all other provinces.``

Yes this is true. Punjab, as a province, gets the highest budget by far. Which is why I said, Karachi gets more than Baluchistan, NWFP, and rural Sind. Not Punjab. But we are comparing cities. There is no single city in Punjab which gets even close to Karachi. Pindi would be no. 1 in Punjab, which has GHQ, and one PAF base.

``You mention the Air Force and say that there are 4 Air Bases in Karachi. As far as I know, there are only two bases in Karachi area..PAF Faisal and PAF Masroor.``

I hope that is not an Indian Intelligence map :-) Some errors. Karachi has Masroor and Shahrah-e-Faisal. These are (probably) the second and third largest bases in Pakistan, after Sarghodha. It also has Korangi and Malir. Korangi was a large training base, where all the engineering training of Pakistan was done, and is still partially done. And Malir is radar base......(this info is from my days, but I think still valid).........

Freesoul #44: ``all muhajirs, pukhtoons, balochis turn out panjabi in army..........Have u ever heard musharraf`s accent. I amost lost my bet that he was panjabi.``

Yes, Musharraf sounds like a Punjabi, speaking Urdu. Probably because he went to FC College in Lahore. And partially because of the Army. He speaks Turkish also. Perhaps with a Punjabi accent, also.....

There are some misconceptions about the military and its ethnic makeup. The part about Karachi, I have alredy highlighted. If the military ever downsizes, despite what Altaf bhai keeps telling us, the city that is going to lose the most jobs and most money spent in its shops and restaurants, is going to be Karachi, by a huge margin.........

Punjabis make up the most enlisted sapahis (soldiers) in the Army. That is not a sign of their wealth. It is a sign of their poverty. The area with the most educated poor is going to produce the most sapahis, in most countries (I assume in India also). People from Karachi rarely jon the miltary as sapahis. They only join as officers. Because they can make a lot more money opening a pan shop in Karachi than becoming a sapahi......So it is by their own choice.........Big cities, including Lahore, do not produce enlisted military recruits.......

I would say the Army non-officer group is probably around 75% Punjabi. Considering the fact that about 66% of Pakistan is either Punjabi or Punjabi speaking, the ratio isn`t too far off the demographics. The remaining are mostly Pathans. But the officer corps is far more diverse. Filled with Muhajirs from Karachi.......There are so many Muhajir Generals.....

Even amongst the enlisted, the main group doesn`t come from all of Punjab or NWFP. It comes specifically from three Potohar districts (Jehlum, Chakwal, Pindi/Attock). And two adjacent NWFP districts (Kohat and Mardan).........The rest of Punjab (Lahore area, Multan area) etc. doesn`t produce too many sapahis.

The reasons are simple: Potohar is traditionally the poorest area of Punjab. It has no industry and no good agricultural land. So military is the only place to go for educated villagers.....Interestingly, due to military recruitement, Potohar is now the most literate area in Punjab. Jehlum has a higher literacy rate than Lahore..........

Re: # 36 Salim: You are quite welcome.

I just thought that my post (#12) could be an eye opener for those who assume that minorities do not contribute to the well-being of a nation.

Yasser, in one of your next articles, can you please enlighten us about the original pre-partition days of Karachi?