Ayodhya: The Aftermath of the Terrorist Attack

Reply to #2 Dalit:

It is amusing to see a Pakistani spew forth hatred for anything Indian under a ``Dalit`` avatar. The real astonishment for die-hard India baiters from the other side of the border is that their pet vision of India being consumed by it`s apparent contradictions of caste, religion and creed just hasn`t come true and, for the love of God, they just can`t figure out why. But hope springs eternal.

Keep dreaming while wiping the spit off your face that is being directed at you from all across the globe, from Egypt to Jordan, from New York to London, from Manila to UAE.

Re: #2 by Dalit

[Hindu can’t live without hate. It is one religion in the world that teaches its children to hate one poor community from the very beginning of a children’s life. When children see that untouchables are not allowed inside or not allowed to touch anything inside a house, they follow in their parents’ footstep.

Hate is a part of Hindu psyche.]


While you are quite accurate in saying that casteism has caused and continues to cause untold sufferings to untouchables and other lower castes, your lack of balance tells me that there is some deep-seated torment going on in your mind.

While lower caste Hindus have suffered a lot in the hands of upper caste hindus, they have also suffered a lot in the hands of the Muslims (and do suffer to this day in Pakistan) – which ironically you yourself point out. The reason Muslims are more tolerant towards them in India is because many Muslims in India are drawn from the same backward classes. In Pakistan, the Muslims are the principal tormenters of the Bhils and other backward classes. Lower caste hindus who convert to Christianity, for example, think that they have found the perfect solution. You should listen to the experiences of some of these Indian Christians in “white” churches in America. Human nature is hard to change.

Cursing Hindus all day long is not going to solve your problem. Many Hindus over the centuries have tried to fight against the ills of casteism. This fight continues to this day. Affirmative action, for example, is one of the remedies the Indian government has tried to reverse the ills. And many upper caste hindus do pay a high price for this effort at reversal. Reverse-discrimination in college admissions and jobs are not easy in a country where resources and jobs are scarce. My father, and many like him, for example, had to serve under people who were rapidly promoted above them, in spite of the promoted officers being immensely under-qualified and under-capable. I had to photocopy engineering textbooks I could not afford when there were dozens of brand new books lying unused just out of reach in the SC-SC section of the library. As a society, we are trying. All Hindus I know absolutely hate the caste warfare and oppression that happens in the rural sections of Bihar and UP. These ills, like poverty, will take decades to rectify, and as Dost-Mitter has suggested, will lessen and disappear along with poverty and illiteracy.

Putting Hinduism down and showing it in a bad light in contrast to Islam and Christianity might slake your thirst for revenge, but beyond that, it would do nobody any good.

Subhash,
It seems that you have done a lot of work among muslims in general and u.p. muslims in particular. Could you throw some light on how after all these decades after partition they are still holding on to practises keeping them aloof from the mainstream. And why aren`t there any prominent muslims who voice against such nonsense.

Solution: Clerics want Shari`ah, many `courts` working

Praising the role of the All-India Muslim Personal Law Board in the establishment of ``Darul Qaza`` across the country, Mohammed Abdur Rahim Quraishi, Secretary of AIMPLB, says: ``The duty to settle, determine and judge mutual disputes by laws revealed and laid down by Allah and his messenger is regardless of age and clime, and status and area of abode.``

http://www.dailypioneer.com/indexn12.asp?main_variable=front%5Fpage&file_name=story2%2Etxt&counter_img=2?headline=Clerics~want~Shari`ah,~many~`courts`~working

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SC disturbed by Shari`ah courts


Taking serious note of attempts to set up a parallel judiciary through Shari`ah courts, the Supreme Court on Monday issued notices to the Union Government, All-India Muslim Personal Law Board and States of Uttar Pradesh, Haryana, Assam, Madhya Pradesh, Rajasthan, West Bengal and Delhi. The notices were returnable in six weeks.




A two-judge bench of Justices YK Sabharwal and CK Thakker issued the notices while responding to a Public Interest Litigation filed by a Delhi advocate, Mr Vishwa Lochan Madan. The petition said ``the defiant attitude`` of the functionaries of Dar-ul Ulooms and All-India Muslim Personal Law Board (AIMPLB) was an ``open affront`` to the judicial system set up under the Constitution of India.

http://www.dailypioneer.com/indexn12.asp?main_variable=front%5Fpage&file_name=story1%2Etxt&counter_img=1?headline=SC~disturbed~by~Shari`ah~courts

``It is basically a question of political will to show whether one really is concerned about the acute sense of deprivation and insecurity which pervades Muslim community in India in general and Uttar Pradesh in particular. The recent findings of the Prime Minister’s high level committee rather further corroborate this. A member of this committee shared his findings after a three day sitting in Lucknow “ Muslims felt they were treated like second grade citizens and their condition, at times, was worse than other deprived sections, with accusations of the police and PAC being prejudiced when it came to Muslims.” ``

Oh really!!! now i see why this kind of things happen:

SIMI organised `02 sabotage on Shramjeevi: Panel report

While the Union Government is maintaining a silence on the findings of the preliminary inquiry into bomb explosions on Shramjeevi Express on July 28, 2005, near Jaunpur in Uttar Pradesh, the report of the Statutory Committee that looked into the May 2002 accident of the same train in the same area has categorically blamed the ``derailment`` on ``sabotage`` by the banned Students Islamic Movement of India (SIMI), active in the State`s Poorvanchal.

http://www.dailypioneer.com/indexn12.asp?main_variable=front 5Fpage&file_name=story5%2Etxt&counter_img=5?headline=SIMI~organised~`02~sabotage~on~Shramjeevi:~Panel~report

Dalit#2:

A whole post without any hehehehe`s? Welcome to the community of serious Interactors.

There are quite a few home truths in your statements and caste hindus should pay attention to them. In my opinion, and you are welcome to disagree, Hindus have over centuries not shown hate towards dalits as much as contempt. They were beneath hatred. And a lot of this contempt exists in the minds even of city dwellers, not just among illiterate villagers. One of the reasons why the practice of untouchability got diluted in the cities was its sheer unfeasibility; how could you tell the glass in which you are being served a drink in a restaurant was not used by a dalit before you or the man sitting next to you in the bus or train is not a dalit?

In my opinion, the root cause of casteism is disparities in economic status. With the passage of time, I have seen upper caste hindus going into the upper end of some very low caste occupations, such as tailoring, hair-styling, nurshing and even plumbing. The answer therefore lies in the economic upliftment of dalits to go along with their political empowerment that is taking place.

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Mr. Subhash Gatade,

It is a pleasure to see you on this site I have read your many articles at different publications and I will be reproducing extracts from some of them for people on this site that are not familiar with your work. Your work on behalf of Dalits and other oppressed communities in the hellhole governed by the caste Hindu is greatly appreciated.

Surprised that the sock puppet RSS cowards that troll this site in droves have not yet begun to howl like hyenas that they always do when progressive and liberated writers take the time to apprised the world about the atrocities against the minorities and Dalits that are taking place in India.

Multiple reasons for RSS-VHP and their ilk howls and growls against the Muslims, recall that for centuries, while the Muslims ruled India, caste Hindu were a willing partner with Muslim rulers in exploiting untouchables. The amount of Hate and Scorn that was heaped on untouchables has no parallel in the history of mankind. No community in this world has gone thru what untouchables have faced for over 3 thousand years.

Muslims became a target of hate in the 20th century for reasons: They were out of power, and the continuation of unbearable oppression would have driven untouchables out of Hindu fold and the numbers were needed to deal with the British and the Muslims.

After the independence the urban Hindu began to heap scorn unabashedly on Muslims and now Christians too are being added to the perpetual enemy list. The urban caste Hindu counterpart in the rural areas has not budged an inch in his oppression of the Untouchables.

Hindu can’t live without hate. It is one religion in the world that teaches its children to hate one poor community from the very beginning of a children’s life. When children see that untouchables are not allowed inside or not allowed to touch anything inside a house, they follow in their parents’ footstep.

Hate is a part of Hindu psyche.

The urban caste Hindus now hate Muslims with the same zeal and fervor that was reserved for untouchables for centuries.There may be some exceptions but 90% of caste Hindu cannot overcome the hate they learned at their homes in their childhood.

The RSS and it fellow travelers like VHP go after the Muslims to maintain their constituency and graph of support in the caste Hindu and also to ensure that the Muslims are pushed back into fundamentalism which a major cause of problems in the Muslim community.

The caste Hindu would prefer that Muslims follow the mullah and Madarssa rather than get some modern education as with education Muslims would likely ask for their rights like Dalits everywhere in India are doing.


Babri mosque happened as Dalits were turning to Islam and now Christian too have become a target as Dalits want to convert and the secular India has laws that forbid people from changing religions and in some places police would force preachers to not to talk to the untouchables.

This is not secularism. It is caste Hindu raj.

Hate is thy name Hindu!

subhash:

..Under the various provisions of the Indian law (Section 153 A, 153 B,, 298, 505 etc ) promoting enmity between different groups on grounds of religion is a recognized criminal offence for which they could be punished with three years of imprisonment.
...

Well said.. But I read Quran and it is doing the same thing, ``promoting enmity between the beleivers (i.e) Muslims and the idol worshippers`` (i.e around 80% of the Indians.. Now can we send summons to Mr.Muhammad??..

Think about it..