Decline of Science in the Muslim World

samirfs

Kindly start by not actively shading the truth.

Re: # 18

Hi buddy,
I see that you haven`t found it yet. Not doing your research, eh?
And btw, thanks for your ``accolades``, but I would appreciate if you don`t put the ``celebrated Islamic scholar`` thing after my name. I am really just a fool like you, seriously ..... no denying. Only I try my best to make myself not to look like one.
:)

Exceptions aside, science develops in the presence of scientific temper. Scientific temper is another name for a cerain threshold level of respect for truth -- truth for its own sake.

When commitment to truth is made subservient to maintaining an imagined glory of religion, science will naturally wither.

---

``There was no quest for knowledge in the pre-Islamic Arabia. In fact any knowledge except that of ones tribal ancestry was derided upon`` - Asghar Ali Engineer, celebrated Islamic scholar in India (http://www.punjabilok.com/faith/islam/islamreconstruction.htm)

``To know oneself is to know God - Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H.)`` - Samir Sheikh, celebrated Islamic scholar and fundamental seeker on Chowk

Re: # 16

To make my question clearer, ``The development of science in the glory days of Muslim world: can it be attributed to the whole society, or was it a result of a bunch of maverick, ``outcast`` scientists?``

Mohammad Gill,

I have been giving this some thought myself since the past few years, and I agree with most of what you say. My question is, what do we know about the scientists and scholars like al-Haitham, al-Razi, Ibn-al-Sina, Ibn-al-Rushd? I mean do we have an account of their personal lives? How ``religious`` or ``unreligious`` were they? Did they work within the system of the prevailing society or did their work hiding in dark holes? Did they get inspired by the Qoran, or like their modern western counterparts, carried on their research irrespective of it? If they worked in hiding, then the reasons are probably the same as today. But if they worked within the framework of the society, then what was different with the Muslim Arabic society then?

- Samir Shaikh

Gill sahib your articles are really getting same even though I am fan of your writings but how about a piece on what is so-called ``Islamic science?``

Re: # 13

bhai jan beejay,

...... hum yahn khariyat say hain aur khud say aap ki khariyat naik matloob chahatay hain...... baad dua arz hai kay how long will it take for this flame to flicker out and who will light the new fire when so many people keep on pissing on it (excuse the urinary expression) .......

........ in my view this process might take centuries but kaun jita hai tere zulf kay sar honay tak ............. gill sahib and others like him are from a previous generation and there are very few of them - the young uns do not show any promise and are joining hizb ul tahrir ........ i think it will be a long time, maybe a few generations, before any meaningful change can take place - the disease has to run its course ..........

Reply#12 Hamidm2

Dear Hamidm2 bhai saab:
(the love of my life, the twinkle of my eyes, whom I would NEVER dare to insult)

(Note: in view of the “lean, mean, fighting-mad chowk machine” we all must make an EXTRA effort to look and act nice toward each other – no matter how obvious the fact that nobody really changes from the inside – a fact that is like daylight to all who can see – and do not believe in illusions.)

I hate to tell you “I told you so” but look what the cumulative effect of all that “adrak” (whose having missed by this “bandar” you so heartily lamented elsewhere) and a long-term interaction with S3 have done to you – you are not able to see the obvious. You think Dr. Gill and other individuals like him who are emboldened enough to speak their minds came out of vacuum? Aren’t they also a product of the same religion, the same society, the same country, and the same other sames that you have so much given up on?!!

Regarding the “regression” that you bemoan, may I relate to you in my plain language (totally shorn of all that psycho mumbo-jumbo that S3 so liberally sprinkles our (usually dumbfounded) chowk population with (when he is not doing so with choice expletives))!

Diya bujhne ke pahle bare jore se jalta hai!

The same holds of certain segments of the Pakistani society as holds of certain set of Kansans! Don’t you see it?!!!

You think twenty-years is a long time? Perhaps it’s time for another session with Gabby and the Big Honcho to put things into their PROPER perspective. If those two entities are sick and tired of you and absolutely refuse, perhaps Dr. Gill can step in and come up with some numbers from his article Age of the Earth and its Measures!

And here is a pearl of wisdom from the great poet Raheem-

Dheerey dheerey re manaa, dheerey sub kuchh hoye!

Sincerely,
BeeJay.

Re: # 11

beejay,

...... but where does the ``familial mindset`` come from ?........... over the last twenty years i have noticed pakistani society regressing when it comes to rational thought - faith and superstition are stronger than ever ...........obviously there is some kind of group-think going on .... what causes that ?........ people in kansas are acting like the ancestors they disown, while the people on the west coast are okay with a monkey grandpa ?.... why ?

........ and i don`t think gill sahib denies that the christian church was as ridiculous as the muslim circus - but the church has moved on, while the circus just won`t leave town .............. it is time to kick out the clowns - they are scaring the children .......

Sorry to get here a bit late!

Good article, but I do not believe one can stop the “buck” at the religious level – I believe it goes deeper – right down to the types of ritualized interactions we have standardized within families as well as within localities – and the unreasonable demands and expectations we place upon others – while minimizing those from ourselves.

The plain reality is that one can not remain in the comforts of the past forever – innovation must continue, or a society – any society – must stagnate and wither away. Many of the issues you bring up were equally applicable to non-Muslim cultures – a structured educational system is a relatively new phenomenon and the Christian church was at one time just as suspicious of anything “modern” (science included) which might cast doubt on what at the time was being taught as religious belief but was mostly dogma. Over time, better sense won over and we may be coming to (or getting ready to come to) such a point in this case also!

[Every person is concerned with the beliefs and religious practice of every other person. Secularism is equated to unbelief and atheism, which is intolerable.]
Gentle words from the gentle Dr. Gill – but what a powerful message!

[With the religious mind set, one wouldn’t know what problems can (or should) be undertaken because for many problems, ….]
[Unless the rational view is deeply inculcated emphasizing that the natural phenomena occur according to some natural laws (and not by the will of God) and can be understood and explained by discovering these laws, religion will remain a dominant stumbling block. And in the Muslim world, it still is.]
However, how to interpret and practice religion gets taught at home – and the familial mindset is at the deeper root – otherwise there would not be so much variation within the community (of the same religion) itself.

Re: # 9

``The Ottomans, too, were quite good technologists although it is fashionable to belittle this fact. ``

A few weeks back I was very surprised to learn (courtesy History channel) that the ottomans were the first to fire a torpedo from a submarine. But it was not a success. The sub went down due to recoil.

kaurasach,

Arab contributions to the Sciences can easily be overlooked...the fact is, they did offer advances of their own independent of what went on in China and India. So regarding them as simple transporters of knowledge is a bit simplisitc and wrong.

The Ottomans, too, were quite good technologists although it is fashionable to belittle this fact.

Could be, yes people work on existing ideas....for ex- ``Gumbad`` the dome is associated with muslim architecture achievement....then I saw this show on PBS and researched it....it turns out that the very first dome was on a Greek/Roman temple ...... the muslims copied and improved it.....

The Arabic alphabets are also copy of Hebrew and Greek Alphabets.....Only yesterday, I learned Allah is corruption of some Jewish word.....

as already said ....... Arabs were transporters of knowledge from east to west and other corners.....thus, they were wrongly given credit for Zero, Chess etc.....

Clinging doggedly to religion and letting it interfere in another discipline will surely lead to its failure.....this is not true to just Islam/muslims ..... but any religious philosophy.

hamidm2:

Unfortunately religious hypocrisy is deeply ingrained in the majority of Muslims` psyche. This is particularly sad in the case of educated people.

I have some research experience in engineering science and if I believed I`d find material in the holy Quran relevant to my line of research, I would have read it word by word with a microscope so as not to miss something important. I`ve read the Quran but it doesn`t have any definitive information which could be useful for research in science. At best, it encourages curiosity and inquisitiveness. If it inspires you in your work, well and good. Salam said he was inspired by Quran in his research and that is okay.

Those who claim that Quran contains all the human knowledge are either hypocrite or ignorant or both. Wishing you well,

Mohammad Gill

Re: # 3

``.............you know their answer? ....... ``because we have deviated from the true deen ``......... ``

i guess they wasted their time and money pursuing higher education. They would been far better going to a local madrassa. You should ask them not to repeat the mistake with their children and send them to some islamic seminary.

kaura:

Your statement that ``Muslims gained this knowledge from others (Indians, Chinese, Europe), ancient Greeks/Romans etc. Either this was gained by translations or from the newly converted followers``, is incomplete. They not only gained this knowledge from the prior sources, they developed it extensively on which the Europeans raised the structure of their science. According to Owen Gingerich, Copernicus mentioned the name of al-Battani 23 times in his book. The Muslim scientists made original and significant contributions in trignometry, spherical trignometry, physcis, medicine, astronomy,etc.

According to Huff (The Rise of Early Modern Science: Islam, China and the West), “.. up until the thirteenth and fourteenth centuries Arabic science was so developed and promising as to be called the most advanced in the world. In the case of astronomy, it is obvious that this supremacy existed until the mid-sixteenth century, when the astronomical models of Ibn-al-Shatir and the Maragha school were superseded by the new astronomical system of Copernicus.”

So it`s not only that they translated knowledge from other sources, there was a time when they were the only ones in the world doing science.

Mohammad Gill